Discipline in Provincial Cup Play

Oranje · 04-26-2007, 11:17 PM

Now that the wonderful website has posted the fallout from last week's Imperial Cup clash, I ask this question: should disciplinary records from what is essentially league play carry on into Provincial Cup? This is a separate competition. In Europe, for example, cards in league play don't count in Cup play, Champions league etc.

The mischief I am identifying is that teams that advance in both league and Imperial Cup play play more games than other teams. The result is a potential exposure to losing players to suspension because they have more chances to be disciplined. So, for example, teams like Firefighters and AFC, who did not advance late in the Imperial Cup or play in the league final, will not miss players due to suspension. Is this fair?

The shame of it all is after playing over 20 games, Frank Mollica will miss two games in Provincial Cup competition, while Kevin Crouch and Tino Cucca will miss one each.

I think cards in league play should carry over into league play, not provincial cup competition. Any thoughts?

LION · 04-27-2007, 02:37 AM

Totally agree with you Oranje. Those were all reds though. Is it the same if you get your third yellow in your final season game. Or is it the reds that only carry forward to provincials.
I agree though. Those players should have to sit out the beginning of next seasons league play.
I hope the yellows don't carry forward. Cause getting your 3rd yellow in the cup final, after playing 20 or so games isn't really that bad. Would be pretty sad if that was the case.

LION

Oranje · 04-27-2007, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LION

Totally agree with you Oranje. Those were all reds though. Is it the same if you get your third yellow in your final season game. Or is it the reds that only carry forward to provincials.
I agree though. Those players should have to sit out the beginning of next seasons league play.
I hope the yellows don't carry forward. Cause getting your 3rd yellow in the cup final, after playing 20 or so games isn't really that bad. Would be pretty sad if that was the case.

LION

I believe it is straight reds and two yellows=red in one game that count. Accumulated yellows in league play do not count.

Maybe the veterans can chime in?

Zaurrini · 04-27-2007, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oranje

I believe it is straight reds and two yellows=red in one game that count. Accumulated yellows in league play do not count.

Maybe the veterans can chime in?

Correct.

gilly · 04-27-2007, 10:37 AM

What about accumulated yellows that have not appeared on the current discipline report. For example, if a player from either Columbus or Inter received their 3rd yellow card of the season, they will not appear on the discipline report this week, however, next week their name will appear. If the teams advance past this weekend, will those potential players be suspended?!?!

Oranje · 04-27-2007, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gilly

What about accumulated yellows that have not appeared on the current discipline report. For example, if a player from either Columbus or Inter received their 3rd yellow card of the season, they will not appear on the discipline report this week, however, next week their name will appear. If the teams advance past this weekend, will those potential players be suspended?!?!

My understanding is no, they are not suspended, it is only red cards that are applied. The yellow card suspensions would carry over to the beginning of next season.

I am really interested in what you folks think about the issue of regular season discipline applying to cup play. Do you think this is fair, makes sense, etc.?

Fat Monkey · 04-27-2007, 11:03 AM

I agree Oranje.

What makes it silly is that only reds get carried forward. That makes the system inaccurate. Why would only red card discipline count?

The only time discipline from league/cup play should make its way into Provincial Cup competition is if it involves something severe such as violence or deliberate injury IMO. At the time the discipline is handed out, an amendment of some kind can be added to "include any and cup competitions." It really wouldn't be hard to do. Every case gets reviewed by the board as it is. Why can't this be thrown in with the review?

Having said that, I believe that any discipline from League play should carry over to Imperial Cup or Pakenham Cup play and vice versa. They are essentially league cups and should be viewed in the same light.

Provincials are a whole different kettle of fish, though.

Just one Monkey's opinion.

**knvb** · 04-27-2007, 11:06 AM

It doesn't make sense, I agree, but neither does getting suspended for 3 yellow cards. Some of the refs now hand out more yellows than Michael Jackson does chocolates in the parking lot of a Wiggles concert. (Think about it) I think the league should go a minimum of 5 yellows before any suspension kicks in, then maybe 2 and 2...

I also don’t think League suspensions should count in ANY cup play, except for a Red. Correct me if I'm wrong , but I believe a red or two yellows=a red is a universal suspension? Anyway, my thinking is why would you as a league hamstring your leagues teams from winning a multi league cup? You would think you would want to give your teams every chance. A third yellow at the end of the year should be pushed into the following season, IMO and cup cards should be like Vegas... what happens in that tourney stays in that tourney.

I also don't think grown men should ever say or type the word silly.

**Aves** · 04-27-2007, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oranje

I believe it is straight reds and two yellows=red in one game that count. Accumulated yellows in league play do not count.

Maybe the veterans can chime in?

yes, unbelievably, 3 league yellows do carry over to a suspension in prov. cup play.
It happened to me two years ago when I played for Peace Arch premier... received my 3rd yellow of a 21 game season in the 21st game...and had to sit out our first round match.

it was bantered around on ttp a bit...also the notion of whether all the yellows are reported and processed by all the leagues right away.
For the fvsl anyway (I inquired) that is the proper protocol according to the bc soccer constitution.
SO, it would have to be taken up with bc soccer to change the rules.

bigbag · 04-27-2007, 03:20 PM

The rule has been changed for this years competition. Only Reds carry forward into Provincial Cup.

Good luck to all the valley teams!

Fat Monkey · 05-02-2007, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knvb

I also don't think grown men should ever say or type the word silly.

But it's okay to say or type the word "Wiggles?"

whenigrowupiwanttobecaptainfeathersword

04-26-2007, 11:17 PM	#1 (permalink)
Oranje Member Joined: Nov 2006 Location: Philips Stadion Posts: 164 Images: 9 TTP Friends: (0)	Discipline in Provincial Cup Play Now that the wonderful website has posted the fallout from last week's Imperial Cup clash, I ask this question: should disciplinary records from what is essentially league play carry on into Provincial Cup? This is a separate competition. In Europe, for example, cards in league play don't count in Cup play, Champions league etc. The mischief I am identifying is that teams that advance in both league and Imperial Cup play play more games than other teams. The result is a potential exposure to losing players to suspension because they have more chances to be disciplined. So, for example, teams like Firefighters and AFC, who did not advance late in the Imperial Cup or play in the league final, will not miss players due to suspension. Is this fair? The shame of it all is after playing over 20 games, Frank Mollica will miss two games in Provincial Cup competition, while Kevin Crouch and Tino Cucca will miss one each. I think cards in league play should carry over into league play, not provincial cup competition. Any thoughts?

04-27-2007, 02:37 AM	#2 (permalink)
LION Member Joined: Mar 2002 Location: East Van Posts: 654 TTP Friends: (0)	Re: Discipline in Provincial Cup Play Totally agree with you Oranje. Those were all reds though. Is it the same if you get your third yellow in your final season game. Or is it the reds that only carry forward to provincials. I agree though. Those players should have to sit out the beginning of next seasons league play. I hope the yellows don't carry forward. Cause getting your 3rd yellow in the cup final, after playing 20 or so games isn't really that bad. Would be pretty sad if that was the case. LION

04-27-2007, 10:37 AM	#5 (permalink)
gilly Member Joined: Sep 2001 Location: Abbotsford Posts: 246 TTP Friends: (0)	Re: Discipline in Provincial Cup Play What about accumulated yellows that have not appeared on the current discipline report. For example, if a player from either Columbus or Inter received their 3rd yellow card of the season, they will not appear on the discipline report this week, however, next week their name will appear. If the teams advance past this weekend, will those potential players be suspended?!?!

04-27-2007, 11:03 AM	#7 (permalink)
Fat Monkey Member Joined: Oct 2001 Location: Flood Plain - oh goody!!! Posts: 354 TTP Friends: (0)	Re: Discipline in Provincial Cup Play I agree Oranje. What makes it silly is that only reds get carried forward. That makes the system inaccurate. Why would only red card discipline count? The only time discipline from league/cup play should make its way into Provincial Cup competition is if it involves something severe such as violence or deliberate injury IMO. At the time the discipline is handed out, an amendment of some kind can be added to "include any and cup competitions." It really wouldn't be hard to do. Every case gets reviewed by the board as it is. Why can't this be thrown in with the review? Having said that, I believe that any discipline from League play should carry over to Imperial Cup or Pakenham Cup play and vice versa. They are essentially league cups and should be viewed in the same light. Provincials are a whole different kettle of fish, though. Just one Monkey's opinion.

04-27-2007, 11:06 AM	#8 (permalink)
knvb Kick'n it old school... A Total Bastard Joined: Aug 2001 Location: Langley Posts: 10,573 Images: 229 TTP Friends: (6)	Re: Discipline in Provincial Cup Play It doesn't make sense, I agree, but neither does getting suspended for 3 yellow cards. Some of the refs now hand out more yellows than Michael Jackson does chocolates in the parking lot of a Wiggles concert. (Think about it) I think the league should go a minimum of 5 yellows before any suspension kicks in, then maybe 2 and 2... I also don’t think League suspensions should count in ANY cup play, except for a Red. Correct me if I'm wrong , but I believe a red or two yellows=a red is a universal suspension? Anyway, my thinking is why would you as a league hamstring your leagues teams from winning a multi league cup? You would think you would want to give your teams every chance. A third yellow at the end of the year should be pushed into the following season, IMO and cup cards should be like Vegas... what happens in that tourney stays in that tourney. I also don't think grown men should ever say or type the word silly. Last edited by knvb; 04-27-2007 at 11:18 AM.

04-27-2007, 03:20 PM	#10 (permalink)
bigbag Member Joined: Oct 2002 Location: coquitlam Posts: 155 Images: 3 TTP Friends: (0)	Re: Discipline in Provincial Cup Play The rule has been changed for this years competition. Only Reds carry forward into Provincial Cup. Good luck to all the valley teams!

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