Buck Pierce: Is he over rated?

[Dial 9-1-1]

I know he looked good (at times) in the last 3 minutes of the game on the weekend, but before that, the only thing he was hitting was the gatorade cooler after 2 downs.

The game would have been over when his 3rd and 4 pass literally did hit the water cooler. A phantom offside call kept the drive alive.

The Riders then would have been able to run the clock down to zero but were forced to punt after their 2nd down conversion became 2nd and 9 (phantom penalty) and they were stopped on the following play.

Never mind the pass to Claremont that nutmegged three defenders. What should have been a turnover and the game (again), instead made the rookie shine again.

With a WHOLE LOT of luck, this guy got the job done, and he got more positive print than he deserved.

I'm not sold on this guy yet and I'm not sure his team mates are either.

[knvb]

This is another case of Vancouver-sport-fan-we're-finally-winning dementia or in hockey circles a nasty case of the Alex Aulds. He's a third string QB at best. DD even said himself that if the other third string (name?) hadn't broken his thumb he's not sure if Buck is even on the team. He played well, BUT in limited minutes. So fcuking what? He lucked out IMO. Fans in this town are the worst form of band wagon sluts in North America. We're like dogs in heat... we'll jump on anything. We'll see how "good" Buck is when they start him this week.


9-1 isn't so bad...

[walls]

he got the fcukin job done didn't he????? so lay off. he may have got some breaks, but thats sport!! as far as phantom calls go...for one, have you seen any cfl games this year without one or two or fifteen?? second, i'd be amazed if you got a good look at the line b4 the snap on the suspect third down call. i'd killed a few pops by then but i'm sure the camera-fill-ins were the ones with the shakey hands and it wasn't just my eyes. knvb i think you're thinking of jarious jackson, who apparently is now ready to play so who knows who will start next game. he's supposed to be quite impressive. dd could by better by then as we hav a bye week. and buck's deep touch passes(one to geroy) against the green-riders were as good as they come. give credit where credits due. 9-0 as the cheese stands alone. if you're dislike for good things compells you enough move to quebec...they eat that shit up like poutine over there!!!

[knvb]

knvb i think you're thinking of jarious jackson

Actually I was thinking of having a wank, but Jarious Jackson was the name I looking for. Thank you. No matter what everyone says I don't think you're just another greasy faced drain on societies resources.

That said;

9-0 as the cheese stands alone. if you're dislike for good things compells you enough move to quebec...they eat that shit up like poutine over there!!!

Where on Uranus are going with this one? We're talking about if Bucky P is nothing more than a useless QB who got lucky against a shitty defence?

You're truly a tit.

[walls]

talking 'bout a 3rd(really 4th) string qb getting the job done, winning the game that was a shite show for us for the first 3 3/4 of it, yet bc "fans" still find something to bi*ch and nit-pick about. comparisson; these "fans" are just like the quebecois who get more than there fcukin share of good things on a federal level yet always seem to find something to snivel and shed visor covered tears(cherry) about!!!! we could go 18-0 this year with buck running the O, and they still wouldn't be satisfied!!! is he a flash in the pan?....maybe. but i'll sure as hell take the W and see where the ducks lay in next weekends game. from what i've seen he show great composure and patience in the pocket(even for a veteran), runs at the right times, and consistantly finds the right reciever. i myself have been quite impressed with him in the three games he's seen action this year but i need to see more of him to be sure just how good he is.......don't think we'll get a chance to see much of him though.....dd's one tough little cnut!!

[Jinky]

walls, stop beaking off about other nationalities you know nothing about.

That's what they do in Russia.

[walls]

good to see you back for your monthly appearance jinks. i see in your down time you've stocked up a pleathera of posts to dish in five minute span. way to contribute to the topic.

[shaven]

Originally Posted by Jinky

walls, stop beaking off about other nationalities you know nothing about.

That's what they do in Russia.

A little off topic, as I'd love to contribute to the Buck Pierce debate, but I just can't pass this one up...:

Jinky, the Quebecois are not another nationality...last time I checked, (regardless of what they may say and think) they're the same nationality as the rest of us in this country a.k.a. nation:

CANADIAN.

Apologies all, but it had to be said.

As for the Buck Pierce question, he's the real deal. If you watch him play, he checks down through ALL his reads in order when he takes the snap, just as he's been taught to, and that's why he finds the open receivers. If you watch him closely, you can even see him doing it with his head movement. His composure is rare, and beyond his experience, and it seems to me he looks an awful lot like DD on the field. Caravatta has it bang on when he describes BP's on-field play: The kid is doing all the things he's been taught to do, he knows the offence and is making the right reads.

Sure, his first series or two wasn't great, but the offence under Printers wasn't great either, and lets not forget the two or three offside penalties that the offence took when he came in the game, which threw him off a little I'm sure. Once he settled in, he ran the offence as good as DD has at most times this season, doing the same things DD does that make him successful. Take what the offence gives you, make the smart read, and stay calm. And, the old adage applies here as well: You have to be good to be lucky, and lucky to be good. Sure BP got a little lucky on the Cleremont throw, as it could have been picked off. However, it was a good throw to an open receiver that any good quarterback in this league throws 2-3 times a game, and usually completes, week after week. Cleremont made a great off-balance catch, which had nothing to do with who made the throw. Take the touch pass he made to Warren against Hamilton on the Lions last touchdown drive; DD couldn't have done it any better himself. The kid can play, and the Lions may have just found their heir to DD when he moves on or retires in another season or two, just as Buono did when he found Garcia to succeed Flutie. Imagine that?


~Shaven

[willis316]

Who cares if he is over rated. DD will be back and hopefully Casey will actually be healthy the next he gets injured. If Casey is not ready we will see if he gets the jobs done. I thoguht the Riders defence played well as they have all year and Price stood in and made some throws agianst a fierce blitz. KVNB I have to disagree with the Canucks comparison. Most of the time the LIons get a raw deal (no one was this excited a 4-0). If the Canucks win 4 in a row people are making room for the Stanley Cup.

[Regs]

Originally Posted by jinky

That's what they do in Russia.

Quality

~Regs.

[knvb]

Shaven,

1. Jinky is from Quebec, obviously. Where do you think he gets that accent from?

Sure, his first series or two wasn't great, but the offence under Printers wasn't great either, and lets not forget the two or three offside penalties that the offence took when he came in the game, which threw him off a little I'm sure. Once he settled in, he ran the offence as good as DD has at most times this season, doing the same things DD does that make him successful. Take what the offence gives you, make the smart read, and stay calm. And, the old adage applies here as well: You have to be good to be lucky, and lucky to be good. Sure BP got a little lucky on the Cleremont throw, as it could have been picked off. However, it was a good throw to an open receiver that any good quarterback in this league throws 2-3 times a game, and usually completes, week after week. Cleremont made a great off-balance catch, which had nothing to do with who made the throw. Take the touch pass he made to Warren against Hamilton on the Lions last touchdown drive; DD couldn't have done it any better himself. The kid can play, and the Lions may have just found their heir to DD when he moves on or retires in another season or two, just as Buono did when he found Garcia to succeed Flutie. Imagine that?

2. This is a nasty case of what I'm calling the "Alex Auld" syndrome. The guy orchestrated an average penalty enhanced drive against a 3-6 team and you're ready to hand the key to the city and a starters spot to him. If he was all that and a bag of squid crisps this wouldn't have been he first time you have ever heard of him.

You probably wanted to start Auld and trade Cloutier too. It's hockey vs Football I know but its the same damn scenario. Quit humping the guys leg.

[Reccos]

I have to agree with Walls and Shaven on Buck Pierce's ability to play and play now. Both have seen the guy live I think as I have both in games and practices.

This guy is a Dave Dickenson but he is faster, stronger and more mobile. He can play. What Dickenson was saying about the guy being 4 and not making it is that it looked that Jackson who came late last year would fill the 3rd spot and there'd be no, no. 4 guy.

Pierce would be in the NFL if he had not come from a school that ran the option for his first 3 years. His one year at a pro set offence put him at 11th in passing in college ball.

He reads defences incredibly for a rookie as he does step up into the pocket. Buono is suggesting that the guy is another Jeff Garcia which is pretty high praise.

His passing in the Hamilton game was 3 for 3 and vs. Sask it was 9 for 12. What do you want, 100%.

How many rookie QBs can you name who will stand in the pocket when they know the blitz is on and they know a guy is definitely coming on the back side (blind side)? Not many, they usually get out of there in a panic and do nothing. He is reading the blitz well.

The passes to Clermont across the middle weren't his best ever but they were catchable and he caught them. This looks like a simple pass from the pocket but it is not. If the blitz is coming he throws that pass quickly. If they aren't blitzing he delays until the guy can get some separation from the cover guy. This is all happening quickly. If the primary receiver over the centre is not on, he has to make another quick decision - if blitz - toss it long or get out. If no blitz, look intermediate or get out of there.

Pierce played great as he came into the game with all the momentum with the Riders. To chuck a ball behind a bit (but it was caught is nothing). In that first series or the second he was starting to run and the guy got him on a shoe string tackle - no big deal.

There is a lot for a QB to be reading and if they use the 5 or 6 receiver set, he less protection on the back side so time is an issue.

If you listened to Pierce post game, he made the point to Caravatta that when the blitz was on, he kept his eyes focused downfield looking for open receivers or the gap to run. It is not easy for rookie QBs to do this especially a guy with one year experience in the past 4 years with a passing offence.

I agree he has seen limited time so far and it is vastly different to run the offence for a whole game. That is why they are not putting the pressure on him too soon.

Pierce is a good ball control/manager guy with more upside than Jarius Jackson who has kicked around the NFL and the NFL Europe and not really caught on. Jackson can toss the pretty passes 40 - 50 yards in practice but not too many are getting to the right guy or to anyone at all.

[Reccos]

The comment about who cares is a bit dumb. What if Casey 's MRI shows he is done. They then need a new no. 2. Second how long can they go with Casey and Dave Dickenson - although longer now that we know Printers is playing for $65,000 not $1 million over 3 years which would not be affordable next year.

I am pretty sure that Pierce will be a starter in the CFL or NFL and not too far off.

[Jinky]

Originally Posted by Regs

Quality

~Regs.

Cheers, it just had to be said.


Shaven, if they aren't a different nationality, then why is their provincial govt, called the National Assembly?

[shaven]

Originally Posted by Jinky

Shaven, if they aren't a different nationality, then why is their provincial govt, called the National Assembly?

C'mon Jinky, don't make me give you a Canadian history lesson. The Quebecois are part of a nation (Canada) with two dominant cultures, historically. Quebec also has its own legal code, based on historic French Civil Law, but that doesn't then necessarily mean that it is its own nation. Quebec is not internationally recognised as a soverign entity...etc., etc., etc....as for the National Assembly, that was a concession to them in...1693 if i'm not mistaken (someone correct me if I'm a bit off on the date) as a form of appeasement by the English, distinct culture and all that. Some Quebecois may think and say they are a different nationality, but they are still part of the Canadian nation. Culture does not necessarily equal nation. 'Nuff said on this.

KNVB, why must you always disagree with everything I say? I'm not handing the keys to Pierce, figuratively speaking, but am simply pointing out, with solid evidence, that he can play, and can run the Lions offence adeptly. And as for the assertion that he'd be playing elsewhere, HE'S 24 YEARS OLD, and only just. He's only been out of college for what, a year or so? He's a kid! Give the guy a break man, and me while your at it . If he couldn't play, Buono wouldn't have him here. Its that simple, which is why Casey's gone at the end of the season . I'm done with my argument, and I hand off to the rest of you now.

~Shaven

[Reccos]

http://www.nmstatesports.com/ViewArt...0&ATCLID=89759

You have to read this article in the context of the system he played under for the first 3 years - the option and this led to a lot of injuries referred to here. They moved to a pro set offence in his 4th year. This is from the New Mexico State U athletics web site.



A Look Back At The 2004-05 School Year - Let’s Be Thankful For Student-Athletes Like Buck Pierce
Courtesy: New Mexico State University Release: 06/20/2005


Courtesy: Rick YeattsSenior quarterback Buck Pierce was one of the great stories of the 2004-05 academic year.

Buck Pierce came from the rainy forests of northern California five years ago to the high desert of Las Cruces, New Mexico.

This fall he became the first New Mexico State quarterback to earn first team all-conference honors since 1977. In May, he’ll leave with a college degree, a truckload of Aggie football records. But just as important, he has left an impression on the University and the community that won’t soon be forgotten.

For a lot of quarterbacks, having the last pass of your college career run back for a game-clinching touchdown might leave a lasting impression with fans and teammates. But Pierce is not your average quarterback. He’s not your average person and that’s why few will remember that last play.

What they will remember is a gritty competitor, a great leader, a good student and most of all, a special person. Everyone has a favorite Buck Pierce story. How about the time his ankle was severely damaged by a hit, but he continued to run for 35 yards and dive over two tacklers into the end zone for a touchdown? What about his last college game, when after suffering a painful shoulder injury, he came off the bench to lead the Aggies to a crucial fourth quarter touchdown?

Then there was time he announced himself to the college football world when on the second snap of his collegiate career, ran 75 yards to the Louisville 12-yard line in the 2002 season opener. Or how about the time he completed 27 of 35 passes for 367 yards and three touchdown against Florida International? Instead of running to the locker room to celebrate with his teammates, he walked over to the stands in the end zone and hugged his number one fan. It wasn’t his mom, or his girlfriend, or even his grandparents who own a home in Las Cruces, but a young woman named Mabel who he met while volunteering with the local Special Olympics program.

The vast majority of student-athletes represent the good things that Buck Pierce represents. Many of them unselfishly commit to their teammates and coaches. Many of them excel in the classroom and many others commit themselves to community service. And most of the time, those stories don’t get told. But this one will.

Pierce came to New Mexico State from Gasquet, California, a town on the banks of the North Fork of the Smith River and within shouting distance of the Oregon border. He was as talented a basketball player as he was a football player and came to NMSU hoping to do both. After red-shirting in 2000, he saw extensive backup duty behind record setting quarterback K.C. Enzminger.

In 2002 he became the starter and nearly led the Aggies to a season-opening upset win over South Carolina. He ran for 64 yards and a touchdown and passed for 207 yards and another score as he kept 83,717 Gamecock fans on the edge of their seats. But the next week, playing back in his home state, Pierce suffered a shoulder injury against Cal. It was one of many injuries Pierce had to battle back from during his career.

In stepped freshman Paul Dombrowski, a southern California native, who led NMSU to an impressive win over in state rival New Mexico. But Pierce regained his starter’s role two weeks later and led the Aggies to a 49-14 win over next door neighbor UTEP. The following week he was on fire, compiling 102 yards of total offense in the first quarter. On first and ten from the Louisiana-Lafayette 41-yard line, Pierce scrambled out of the pocket, but was hit in the ankle by the helmet of a Ragin’ Cajun defender.

Nobody knew it at the time, but Pierce’s ankle was severely damaged. Unable to cut to the left or right, he kept running straight ahead for 35 more yards, jumping over a pair of defenders that pounded him into the turf in the end zone. "I thought he had hurt his knee diving into the end zone," says New Mexico State head athletics trainer Mike O’Larey. "Only later on film did I see he had been hurt much earlier in the play." "That was my personal favorite," said Aggie linebacker and junior co-captain Jimmy Cottrell. "That play typifies Buck. It shows his determination on the field."

"That is the play that always sticks out to me," says Tony Samuel, Buck’s head coach during his college career at NMSU. Pierce missed the next three weeks, came back and played as a backup to Dombrowski, helping the Aggies to a 7-5 record. As a junior in 2003, he and Dombrowski shared the position. Sometimes the two would switch in the middle of a drive. Pierce handled it all with class.

He took the starting job over when Dombrowski became injured midway through the season, but then in the season finale, on national television, he broke his ankle at the end of the first half and couldn’t finish the game.

This season the team started poorly as NMSU lost four of its first five including humbling defeats to rivals New Mexico and UTEP. He was hurt late in the game against New Mexico and didn’t play the following week against UTEP. But again Pierce got himself up off the deck and led the Aggies to four wins in their final six games.

In the final game of his career, Pierce was blasted by a blitzing linebacker in the fourth quarter and walked off the field. It seemed his season and this time his career would end with an injury. But he returned on the next drive, unable to let his right arm fall all the way to his side because of the pain, and led the Aggies on a late fourth quarter drive that nearly won the game.

"When he came off the field, I knew he was hurt, but I knew he would be back in there," says Cottrell. "Everybody knew that. We knew he would put us on his back. I didn’t expect anything less than that from him." "When he came off the field, I thought he was done," said Samuel. "The next thing you know, he’s throwing on the sideline. You could see in his face, there was no way he was coming out of that game. He plays hurt, he competes hurt, and he picks himself off the ground.

He just gets things done no matter what." Pierce finished his career as the school’s all-time leader in passing efficiency (147.9), yards per attempt (8.2), and completion percentage (.663). He also ranks second in interception percentage (2% of total passes attempted), third in total offense (5,661 yards), fourth in pass completions (397), fourth in passing yards (4,927), and seventh in passing touchdowns (30). His 11 200-yard passing games are tied for the second most in school history and his trio of 300-yard games ranks third. He was responsible for 44 touchdowns, fourth most in school history. Pierce ranked highly in all these career statistics despite the fact he only started 21 games.

The three players that rank ahead of him in career passing yards had 34, 33 and 29 career starts. "He’s one of the most competitive guys I’ve been around", says Samuel. "He has an air about him. He’s something special."

But his enduring legacy at NMSU is what he means to people as a man, not just as a quarterback. "I was impressed with him when I had him in class," says NMSU Regents Professor and Special Education instructor Anne Gallegos. "He came to me and asked to work for Special Olympics and he wasn’t getting any credit for it." She remembers that moment when he embraced Mabel after one of the best games of his college football career.

"The FIU game really confirmed it for me. Without him knowing anybody was watching, he gave several big hugs to his number one fan (Mabel). I watched her week after week, always with a new jersey. She would have a jersey that said she was his number one fan, or had a picture of him on the jersey. When the game was over, he came over and hugged her. It made her whole year and her family was overjoyed." It was a moment that also left a lasting impression on Professor Gallegos. "It was wonderful. I can’t tell you how meaningful it was to me. Here he is, top of his game, everybody knows him, the most recognized player on the team and he showed me a lot about his compassion for others. There are usually over 100 people in my class and it’s very touching when somebody takes it to heart."

The rewards for Pierce have been just as meaningful. "She was a big-time fan and she loved going to all the games. She never got a chance to be in contact with any of us. We e-mail each other now and I always see her before the games. She is more than just a football fan, but a friend. She has really made me see the big picture. I’m thankful for what I have. She’s just a great person." Pierce feels a sense of responsibility as a student-athlete to go beyond the call of duty.


"It’s something, as an athlete, you need to do. You learn a lot about yourself and people. You learn that what you do effects people. It’s a good feeling to know that you can touch somebody, not just through being a football player, but being a good person." He leaves just as big an impression on his teammates and coaches. "I’ve never played with a guy like him," says Cottrell. "He makes me better. I want to work just as hard as he does. He’s a great person, great football player, and great friend. He enjoys life and has fun, but works hard and does the right things. He has this air about him. He always makes the best of a bad situation."

Another bad situation stared Pierce in the face just four days after his final college game. His head coach, Tony Samuel, along with the entire staff did not have their contracts renewed. How did he handle it? With class and dignity. "It's hard. I know that the administration has to do what they have to do, but from my personal experience, I have had a great career here and the coaches have gone a great job. They will be missed and I am sure they will be coaching somewhere this spring." Some people question the need for college athletics. They wonder about the benefits to the young men and women who play the games.

Buck Pierce is a poster boy for all that is good about the games we watch. "I learned a lot about perseverance. Things aren’t always going to go your way. I’ve become so much more aware of the realities of the game and life in general. Things can be taken away from you. You can either sit back and keep losing, or overcome it and fight through it. My family always stressed that. I’ve learned a lot about life through this game and I’m a better person."

[Dial 9-1-1]

Sorry, Jinky...I know a repeat victory would have been special for you, but after reading Reccos' post, I've got to give my vote for 2005 Humanitarian of the Year to Buck Pierce.

[Jinky]

I think I'm still in with a shout actually for two reasons, all the work I've been doing with a special needs poster in the Scottish Football thread and because BP should be disqualified due to the fact that he can't possbly be human.

[Dial 9-1-1]

Originally Posted by Jinky

BP should be disqualified due to the fact that he can't possibly be human.

Is he even alive?

Is this a case of the Alex Aulds or is it more a case of the Harold Drukens?