Euro 2008 - Page 9

LION · 06-11-2008, 06:22 PM

Are you kidding me?

You are comparing Rugby now to Soccer?

Rugby is all contact with corned ears and tons of injuries. And not a FINESSE sport. Football is contact and with pads. The only time you'd maybe think of diving is on a pass interference... come on now.
Baseball? when is there contact, when your sliding in to a plate?

Soccer is a chess match, moving up the field, and getting that free kick in the right area could mean one nil.. and Victory for your club or country.

There is not just Crosby, i was just using him as he is Canada's best. And maybe Hockeys best.
Lots and lots of players do it, when they have position, and they are usually European. Funny. And sometimes they get the call, go on the powerplay and score. Detroit won the cup. Lots of Europeans there. (not calling them floppers)

Don't get me wrong, I am not in to the diving. I don't like it when guys go down easy and look for calls. But I have seen it since I was 3 years old, and have grown to understand it. As a tactic on so many levels.stalling, resting, slowing down the game, upsetting the opponent, and obviously, getting the foul in key areas.

As well, maybe another arguement....anyone please jump in on this one.

To a degree, I almost rather a player like C.Ronaldo to dive sarcastically out of a way of a tackle, and keep his legs, rather then only go down when he does get clobbered.

We will see him healthier for many more years. And enjoy many more goals of his.
Some of these dives would be fouls/maybe injury if players didn't leap, or flop out of the way of the studs, or tackle.

If you watch the best countries in the world play their game in their countries. ie; Brasil, Argentina, Portugal, Spain, (I can't say Germany as they don't do so much diving and still are tops) They are the worst ones at this diving thing.

These teams play with skill and finesse, and rather go down or "flop" to save there legs etc... and gain position. They were maybe raised in to this? I don't know. But obviously a more effective tactic then taking the tackle like a man and not flopping or overacting to get the call.

I would rather watch a Portugal vs Italy Final anyday.

KNOWING when to go down is also a big part of the game. IT ALWAYS WILL BE!
You can't compare any sport, (maybe hockey) to this.

I really want to stop, but must rant!!

In these South American countries, for example Brasil. I guarantee on there local forum, they are not argueing of diving. They are beyond that. And understand the game for what it is. They know the guy went down to try to get the call. And not whining about if he was really injured or not.
Why? Cause they aren't surrounded by contact sports, and trying to compare soccer, their international game to Hockey, or Football, or even better Rugby.
PLEASE. Watch a Sao Paulo vs Flamencos match. Then talk about diving?
Watch a boca juniors game. And try to bitch to the locals there about diving?
I don't think they would agree much.

last example,.

You push it by a man, he slides and you have to jump and change your stride to get away from the tackle, and cause you have to change it up he missed you, and you could have not moved out of the way, and taken the tackle for the obvious call.
But you jump or change your flow just so the tackle is missed. But cause of this you are not at the same pace, and the second defender comes in and cleans up the play.
You now lost the ball possesion for your team as you jumped out of getting hit.

So what some players do, once they notice that they have lost possesion cause of the defending players missed tackle which changed their stride, is go down anyways and grab there foot with the slightest clip, to show the ref that he disrupted your forward action.
So you take a bit of the tackle, and dive to save your body, but still look for the foul.

You are saying in these situations, players should take the tackle, for the obvious call for the ref?

Most in these "diving" nations, would see the foul/tackle coming and already start the diving/(diving out of getting smoked). Yah it looks "pussy like" COMPARING to your contact sports. But if you are a starting man, and soccer is your bread and butter. Probably the right choice. Especially when you do get the call. And put away the free kick to win 1-0. And just saved your ankles for the next match.

PLEASE.

I would like to see officials crack down on it more. And crunch down on the really really sarcastic ones that give the game a bad name.
But it will NEVER go away. Too many tactics on to many levels involved with going down.

termatofylakas · 06-11-2008, 08:51 PM

I wonder if the next game is decided by a controversial call what Lion's next rant will be about? Call it karma for that pathetic dive to beat the Aussie's.

bandcamp · 06-11-2008, 10:14 PM

Well Lion...it's been beaten to death. Nice rant. I don't think you're giving me enough credit for understanding the flopping...I do. Can appreciate the benefits, tactics and history behind it. But I can also step back and say it's a joke. Grown men flopping like girls. Doesn't sit with me, does with you. Agree to disagree.

bulljive · 06-11-2008, 10:35 PM

Lion I see wear you are coming from in that diving is a part of the game, really it is unfortunate in my opinion. Players often take the dive instead of staying on their feet, maybe because they don't have the confidence or ability to avoid a tackle and finish under pressure. Instead they dive, flop, exaggerate actual fouls for the PK or free kick. It's cheating, shameful and shouldn't be a part of the game. I honestly have never taken a dive and honestly I don't know how. It never crosses my mind I always try to stay on my feet and battle for the ball. A foul is a foul the ref should be able to decide that whether you attempt to stay on your feet or not. I don't know how you can sit there and say Italy plays entertaining soccer and you were much rather watch them. For years they have been horrible to watch, luckily this year they are playing a more attacking brand and will be forced to after the schalacking they took from a better dutch side.

Johan Cruijff The Total Footballer | Footytube.com - Latest Football Video Highlights

Johan didn't need to go down because he was better then any Italian player that has ever lived. Look at him shed those tackles..thats football

Captain Shamrock · 06-11-2008, 11:17 PM

The bottom line is that there is NO ****ing place in football for diving/cheating cnuts. They destroy the game and to say it is 'part of the game' is horseshit. Divers need to be dealt with immediately........if a player goes down with an 'injury' that team should have to play the next five minutes short a player. IF by that time the player is able to play, then he continues. If not, then a sub should be brought in at that time.......the amount of this sort of cheating is embarrassing and not helping the game at all on the world stage.

suburbanator · 06-12-2008, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LION

Are you kidding me?
Soccer is a chess match, moving up the field, and getting that free kick in the right area could mean one nil.. and Victory for your club or country.
.

Lion, after coaching against you for a couple years in Cat and D1, I respect that you yourself don't go down easily, and no I didn't get to play against you.... without excuses it wasn't in the cards for me. Other than turning your Collar up like the Count from Sesame Street, contrary to the jersey's design, I have trouble faulting your play.

I appreciate your defence of the Italians specifically, but as a guy that has only recently had the time and opportunity to watch alot of international football (Yeah, yeah I am unemployed right now) I have to say that their reputation preceeds them, and then is replayed time after time when they take the pitch.

It will in fact be Canada's downfall should we catch the wrong official during one of our WC2010 Qualifying matches, vs. a South american team where it is completely acceptable to flop.

I am non-biased, being Canadian and a relative international rookie, some nationalities dive, some don't. It has to do with their national leagues, and the acceptance of such acts. The Ronaldonians are a close 2nd, however they look good while doing it.....

Anyway... I accidently picked the Italians to get out of their group in my pool, so I hope to hell they play some good ball.

Faithfully yours,

Subdivanator.

The Franchise · 06-12-2008, 01:03 AM

Everyone in European soccer dives, it is a part of the game.

suburbanator · 06-12-2008, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Franchise

Everyone in European soccer dives, it is a part of the game.

If this is the case, then just like Actors...there are various skill levels. We have the benefit of instant replay. Some look really bad under these circ.

Polska · 06-12-2008, 06:42 AM

so group A has Turkey and the czech's tied in points. both these teams are -1 in goal differential and they play each other on sunday. lets say for arguement sake that this game ends in a tie. what will be the next tie breaker.

Hands of Stone · 06-12-2008, 06:56 AM

Straight to PKs.

That would be a great finish on Sunday.

hos

suburbanator · 06-12-2008, 10:56 AM

Croatia 2 - Germany 1...

Germans looked really uninspired. Ballack especially and I think Lehman needs to chill...he spends more time yelling at his team mates, instead of stopping 40 yard-outside shots. Croatia played a strong game, always on the back of their opponents.

The late red card was stupid...The guy that got the card (Schweinstaiger) had been playing well and did himself in... not sure if it was worth a red...but close enough. The guy went down holding his face...after a shove to the chest....

Should make the next game more interesting and important.

Good on Croatia.

Tuna · 06-12-2008, 11:22 AM

A lifetime supply of beer is being offered up by an Austrian brewer to the first Austrian player that scores. Wow, now that's what I call an incentive.

**johnnybluenose** · 06-12-2008, 11:26 AM

Good God Hrvatska!!!!

What a performance!!!

Slaven Bilic is my new favorite Character in Football, he was in tears after the game

Luca Modric is a special little player and Spurs have a super star in the making...

What a genius stroke putting Kranjcar in the hole...

And Srna may have had the game of his life.

Diabolical call at the end with the yellow and the breakaway when Modric slid the ball cleanly away from Frings... Could have easily been 3-1

Ballack was off a lot, Jansen will never see a game in this tourney again if Loew knows what is good for him. Gomez should also not see anymore of the field, put Podolski up with Klose and put Metzelder on the left, or Borowski...

italian_stallion21 · 06-12-2008, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuna

A lifetime supply of beer is being offered up by an Austrian brewer to the first Austrian player that scores. Wow, now that's what I call an incentive.

And so they should, could have benn 4-0 Austria in the first 20 if they had ANY finish at all. Hell the Whalley Strikers get at least 1 goal off of 4 breakaways

LION · 06-13-2008, 12:27 AM

That foul called on Poland in the 92nd was B.S.
Home Country advantage? So does the P.K. goal scorer get free beer for life now?
for finishing a should have been no call p.k.?

LION · 06-13-2008, 12:36 AM

YouTube - Lucas Neill vs Fabio Grosso - Was There Contact?

So Grosso should have jumped over the missed tackle and just lost the ball.

So happy he didn't.

LION

Balsa · 06-13-2008, 09:13 AM

Lion, I think you are purposely trying to start debates with your comments now

Everything you are defending is everything that FIFA is trying to get out of the game. You would blow a gasget if you were pulled down in the box as well as if a player made a ridiculous attempt to draw a foul with a dive against you. Soccer is a physical game but there are limits.

Footy is the greatest game on earth but is needs some cleaning up my friend. I personally love that the Refs in this tourney are showing the balls to make these controversial, yet correct calls. (In my opinion)

mmmmmm Free Beer for life

**johnnybluenose** · 06-13-2008, 09:46 AM

I would agree there is a time and a place to avoid injury and diving out of a tackle

however any claims that it is smart, clever, or sporting to fall when you could carry on to draw a foul and a potential free kick is simply erroneous.

It what is holding the game back from the largest television market and largest market of sports enthusiasts globally: North America. There is a reason that the NFL is the number 1 brand as far as value of sporting franchises world wide.
for the good of the game globally the diving and simulation needs to be forever banished from the game, it doesn't do anybody any good.

LION you are right that it is lunacy to compare the physical nature of the game to contact and collision sports.

Regs · 06-13-2008, 01:51 PM

Has anyone noticed on the TSN/Sportsnet Euro site, they have video highlites as well as complete games on-demand?

Magic!

EuroCup 2008

**BJB** · 06-16-2008, 01:45 PM

Croatia 1 Poland 0

Basically it was the bench vs poland. Good result. Now hopefully an even better one against Turkey on Friday.

Germany 1 Austria 0

Both coaches got ejected, didn't have sound on at cactus club so don't know why the got tossed.. Austrians had some chances, but nobody could score. Free Kick goal by Ballack (I think, i was watching 3 tv's at once).

Quarter-Finals
Thursday: Portugal vs Germany
Friday: Croatia vs Turkey

06-11-2008, 06:22 PM	#161 (permalink)
LION Member Joined: Mar 2002 Location: East Van Posts: 716 Tokens: 1,000.00	Re: Euro 2008 Are you kidding me? You are comparing Rugby now to Soccer? Rugby is all contact with corned ears and tons of injuries. And not a FINESSE sport. Football is contact and with pads. The only time you'd maybe think of diving is on a pass interference... come on now. Baseball? when is there contact, when your sliding in to a plate? Soccer is a chess match, moving up the field, and getting that free kick in the right area could mean one nil.. and Victory for your club or country. There is not just Crosby, i was just using him as he is Canada's best. And maybe Hockeys best. Lots and lots of players do it, when they have position, and they are usually European. Funny. And sometimes they get the call, go on the powerplay and score. Detroit won the cup. Lots of Europeans there. (not calling them floppers) Don't get me wrong, I am not in to the diving. I don't like it when guys go down easy and look for calls. But I have seen it since I was 3 years old, and have grown to understand it. As a tactic on so many levels.stalling, resting, slowing down the game, upsetting the opponent, and obviously, getting the foul in key areas. As well, maybe another arguement....anyone please jump in on this one. To a degree, I almost rather a player like C.Ronaldo to dive sarcastically out of a way of a tackle, and keep his legs, rather then only go down when he does get clobbered. We will see him healthier for many more years. And enjoy many more goals of his. Some of these dives would be fouls/maybe injury if players didn't leap, or flop out of the way of the studs, or tackle. If you watch the best countries in the world play their game in their countries. ie; Brasil, Argentina, Portugal, Spain, (I can't say Germany as they don't do so much diving and still are tops) They are the worst ones at this diving thing. These teams play with skill and finesse, and rather go down or "flop" to save there legs etc... and gain position. They were maybe raised in to this? I don't know. But obviously a more effective tactic then taking the tackle like a man and not flopping or overacting to get the call. I would rather watch a Portugal vs Italy Final anyday. KNOWING when to go down is also a big part of the game. IT ALWAYS WILL BE! You can't compare any sport, (maybe hockey) to this. I really want to stop, but must rant!! In these South American countries, for example Brasil. I guarantee on there local forum, they are not argueing of diving. They are beyond that. And understand the game for what it is. They know the guy went down to try to get the call. And not whining about if he was really injured or not. Why? Cause they aren't surrounded by contact sports, and trying to compare soccer, their international game to Hockey, or Football, or even better Rugby. PLEASE. Watch a Sao Paulo vs Flamencos match. Then talk about diving? Watch a boca juniors game. And try to bitch to the locals there about diving? I don't think they would agree much. last example,. You push it by a man, he slides and you have to jump and change your stride to get away from the tackle, and cause you have to change it up he missed you, and you could have not moved out of the way, and taken the tackle for the obvious call. But you jump or change your flow just so the tackle is missed. But cause of this you are not at the same pace, and the second defender comes in and cleans up the play. You now lost the ball possesion for your team as you jumped out of getting hit. So what some players do, once they notice that they have lost possesion cause of the defending players missed tackle which changed their stride, is go down anyways and grab there foot with the slightest clip, to show the ref that he disrupted your forward action. So you take a bit of the tackle, and dive to save your body, but still look for the foul. You are saying in these situations, players should take the tackle, for the obvious call for the ref? Most in these "diving" nations, would see the foul/tackle coming and already start the diving/(diving out of getting smoked). Yah it looks "pussy like" COMPARING to your contact sports. But if you are a starting man, and soccer is your bread and butter. Probably the right choice. Especially when you do get the call. And put away the free kick to win 1-0. And just saved your ankles for the next match. PLEASE. I would like to see officials crack down on it more. And crunch down on the really really sarcastic ones that give the game a bad name. But it will NEVER go away. Too many tactics on to many levels involved with going down.

06-11-2008, 08:51 PM	#162 (permalink)
termatofylakas Member Joined: Sep 2003 Location: Boonies Posts: 1,001 Tokens: 1,000.00	Re: Euro 2008 I wonder if the next game is decided by a controversial call what Lion's next rant will be about? Call it karma for that pathetic dive to beat the Aussie's.

06-11-2008, 10:14 PM	#163 (permalink)
bandcamp Member Joined: Jul 2001 Location: copasetic state Posts: 761 Tokens: 1,000.00	Re: Euro 2008 Well Lion...it's been beaten to death. Nice rant. I don't think you're giving me enough credit for understanding the flopping...I do. Can appreciate the benefits, tactics and history behind it. But I can also step back and say it's a joke. Grown men flopping like girls. Doesn't sit with me, does with you. Agree to disagree.

06-11-2008, 10:35 PM	#164 (permalink)
bulljive Member Joined: Nov 2003 Location: delta Posts: 1,444 Tokens: 1,000.00	Re: Euro 2008 Lion I see wear you are coming from in that diving is a part of the game, really it is unfortunate in my opinion. Players often take the dive instead of staying on their feet, maybe because they don't have the confidence or ability to avoid a tackle and finish under pressure. Instead they dive, flop, exaggerate actual fouls for the PK or free kick. It's cheating, shameful and shouldn't be a part of the game. I honestly have never taken a dive and honestly I don't know how. It never crosses my mind I always try to stay on my feet and battle for the ball. A foul is a foul the ref should be able to decide that whether you attempt to stay on your feet or not. I don't know how you can sit there and say Italy plays entertaining soccer and you were much rather watch them. For years they have been horrible to watch, luckily this year they are playing a more attacking brand and will be forced to after the schalacking they took from a better dutch side. Johan Cruijff The Total Footballer \| Footytube.com - Latest Football Video Highlights Johan didn't need to go down because he was better then any Italian player that has ever lived. Look at him shed those tackles..thats football The capacity for human stupidity is almost infinite. Last edited by bulljive; 06-11-2008 at 10:37 PM.

06-11-2008, 11:17 PM	#165 (permalink)
Captain Shamrock Premium Member A Better Bastard Joined: Jul 2001 Location: Richmond Posts: 13,552 Tokens: 0	Re: Euro 2008 The bottom line is that there is NO ****ing place in football for diving/cheating cnuts. They destroy the game and to say it is 'part of the game' is horseshit. Divers need to be dealt with immediately........if a player goes down with an 'injury' that team should have to play the next five minutes short a player. IF by that time the player is able to play, then he continues. If not, then a sub should be brought in at that time.......the amount of this sort of cheating is embarrassing and not helping the game at all on the world stage.

06-12-2008, 01:03 AM	#167 (permalink)
The Franchise King of the PK's and a A Better Bastard Joined: Sep 2004 Location: Walnut Grove Posts: 4,897 Tokens: 372.00	Re: Euro 2008 Everyone in European soccer dives, it is a part of the game.

06-12-2008, 06:42 AM	#169 (permalink)
Polska Member Joined: Sep 2007 Location: Van East Posts: 1,707 Tokens: 0	Re: Euro 2008 so group A has Turkey and the czech's tied in points. both these teams are -1 in goal differential and they play each other on sunday. lets say for arguement sake that this game ends in a tie. what will be the next tie breaker.

06-12-2008, 06:56 AM	#170 (permalink)
Hands of Stone Member Joined: Jul 2001 Location: SSAP 24/7 Posts: 4,798 Tokens: 1,000.00 Images: 7	Re: Euro 2008 Straight to PKs. That would be a great finish on Sunday. hos

06-12-2008, 10:56 AM	#171 (permalink)
suburbanator Member Joined: Oct 2002 Location: Middle of D1 Posts: 1,497 Tokens: 1,000.00 Images: 54	Re: Euro 2008 Croatia 2 - Germany 1... Germans looked really uninspired. Ballack especially and I think Lehman needs to chill...he spends more time yelling at his team mates, instead of stopping 40 yard-outside shots. Croatia played a strong game, always on the back of their opponents. The late red card was stupid...The guy that got the card (Schweinstaiger) had been playing well and did himself in... not sure if it was worth a red...but close enough. The guy went down holding his face...after a shove to the chest.... Should make the next game more interesting and important. Good on Croatia.

06-12-2008, 11:22 AM	#172 (permalink)
Tuna Member Joined: Jul 2005 Location: Richmond Posts: 431 Tokens: 1,000.00	Re: Euro 2008 A lifetime supply of beer is being offered up by an Austrian brewer to the first Austrian player that scores. Wow, now that's what I call an incentive.

06-12-2008, 11:26 AM	#173 (permalink)
johnnybluenose Premium Member A Better Bastard Joined: Oct 2004 Location: Cloverdale Posts: 5,149 Tokens: 0 Blog Entries: 6	Re: Euro 2008 Good God Hrvatska!!!! What a performance!!! Slaven Bilic is my new favorite Character in Football, he was in tears after the game Luca Modric is a special little player and Spurs have a super star in the making... What a genius stroke putting Kranjcar in the hole... And Srna may have had the game of his life. Diabolical call at the end with the yellow and the breakaway when Modric slid the ball cleanly away from Frings... Could have easily been 3-1 Ballack was off a lot, Jansen will never see a game in this tourney again if Loew knows what is good for him. Gomez should also not see anymore of the field, put Podolski up with Klose and put Metzelder on the left, or Borowski...

06-13-2008, 12:27 AM	#175 (permalink)
LION Member Joined: Mar 2002 Location: East Van Posts: 716 Tokens: 1,000.00	Re: Euro 2008 That foul called on Poland in the 92nd was B.S. Home Country advantage? So does the P.K. goal scorer get free beer for life now? for finishing a should have been no call p.k.?

06-13-2008, 09:13 AM	#177 (permalink)
Balsa Member Joined: Mar 2002 Location: Following the beer cooler Posts: 326 Tokens: 1,000.00 Images: 4	Re: Euro 2008 Lion, I think you are purposely trying to start debates with your comments now Everything you are defending is everything that FIFA is trying to get out of the game. You would blow a gasget if you were pulled down in the box as well as if a player made a ridiculous attempt to draw a foul with a dive against you. Soccer is a physical game but there are limits. Footy is the greatest game on earth but is needs some cleaning up my friend. I personally love that the Refs in this tourney are showing the balls to make these controversial, yet correct calls. (In my opinion) mmmmmm Free Beer for life

06-13-2008, 09:46 AM	#178 (permalink)
johnnybluenose Premium Member A Better Bastard Joined: Oct 2004 Location: Cloverdale Posts: 5,149 Tokens: 0 Blog Entries: 6	Re: Euro 2008 I would agree there is a time and a place to avoid injury and diving out of a tackle however any claims that it is smart, clever, or sporting to fall when you could carry on to draw a foul and a potential free kick is simply erroneous. It what is holding the game back from the largest television market and largest market of sports enthusiasts globally: North America. There is a reason that the NFL is the number 1 brand as far as value of sporting franchises world wide. for the good of the game globally the diving and simulation needs to be forever banished from the game, it doesn't do anybody any good. LION you are right that it is lunacy to compare the physical nature of the game to contact and collision sports.

06-13-2008, 01:51 PM	#179 (permalink)
Regs Member A Total Bastard Joined: Jun 2001 Location: TTP Headquarters Posts: 14,360 Tokens: 1,000.00 Blog Entries: 1 Images: 233	Re: Euro 2008 Has anyone noticed on the TSN/Sportsnet Euro site, they have video highlites as well as complete games on-demand? Magic! EuroCup 2008 If you could... Would You?

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06-16-2008, 01:45 PM	#180 (permalink)
BJB Joined: Sep 2001 Location: Vancouver Posts: 1,922 Tokens: 0 Images: 1	Re: Euro 2008 Croatia 1 Poland 0 Basically it was the bench vs poland. Good result. Now hopefully an even better one against Turkey on Friday. Germany 1 Austria 0 Both coaches got ejected, didn't have sound on at cactus club so don't know why the got tossed.. Austrians had some chances, but nobody could score. Free Kick goal by Ballack (I think, i was watching 3 tv's at once). Quarter-Finals Thursday: Portugal vs Germany Friday: Croatia vs Turkey Croatia 3 Wins 2 Draws 0 Loses against I-T-A-L-I-A!!!!