[FVSL Div. 2] Promotion/Relegation Format 2005/2006

[shaven]

Discuss all thoughts on the promotion/relegation format here.

~Shaven

[Dude]

The format of top teams from each group play-off against the 8th place team has one flaw: the three group draw.

The league needs to go back to having a 4th and 5th division, if required. The sooner, the better.

This year, for example, it could be argued that the two top teams from 2A and 2B could compete in div. 1, but as it stands now, only two of the four will have a shot at promotion. In div 2C, as things stand right now, only Celtic look capable of competing in Div. 1. Ultimately, we need a 2nd division with 10 strong teams. This will in turn improve the 1st division, because teams comming up will be better prepared. As it is right now, half our games are tight, and the other half are blow-outs. We need more parity, and an overall higher quality.

Essentially, all this needs is a 3 year plan w/ strict guidelines. Drop 2nd down to 16 next year, then 14, then 10. Take the lower performers from each group this year, and demote them to 3rd, and demote as many as you need to in 3rd to a 4th division. Now that Prem and 1st are sorted out, it's time to sort out the rest.

A cross over league play format will at least give teams a fairer shot. Yes, more games (21 if there are 16 teams), but then, you'll have a better promotion battle. The year you play 21 games, you could promote strictly on standings, and skip the play-off format. The next year, with 14 teams and a cross-over format, you'd be back down to 18 teams, and back to play-offs. Finally, with ten teams to manage, there is one group, and the format is stronger, and simplified.

[bored]

I tend to agree with you Dude, but if you have a look at Premier Div nothing you do will gaurantee you parity. However the quality should go up. There should be a gap between each division and with clear divisions you will likely have a clear step up to the next division as opposed to having several teams in div 2. Take Maple Ridge/GEU for an example. Between all their teams in div 2 I am sure that you could make one fairly competive one. The flip side is that you have teams like the Celtic and the DFC Coachmen that are just a bunch of guys that want to play together.

It would be great if each Club had a Premier Team, Cat Team, 1st div and so on down the line full of players that simply wanted to play at the highest level possible. For some, at this stage for me, it isn't about proving what level you a capable of playing, it is simply about playing.

The way it is right now clearly it isn't about the best teams moving up or down. Years ago the team being relegated from Premier was often better than the team going up but that doesn't mean that the team going up didn't earn the right to go up. The set up now is clear and not really unfair, there is always the luck of the draw, win Div 2 and you get into a Playoff with a chance to advance. Thats not bad, if you don't win the Div then you got nothing to complain about.

[Dude]

Agreed on both. I do think there is value in having a straight relegation for last in Prem, though. It gives them incentive to get it done in the season, rather than resting and loading up for a short "Promotion / Relegation" style playoff. Makes for better late season battles.

As for Div 2 & 1, both would be better served by a single, 10 team group in Div 2.

I think I'm in the same boat as far as motivation, but I still have the competitive fires that personally would be better stoked in Div. 1. I.e: Pakenham Cup. Would like to be able to play a competitive season, then gear up for a legitimate Cup run, like the Rangers. The Pak is still the most enjoyable, and hard fought series out here, no matter what format it takes. Way more fun in winning the Pak, and way more satisfying. Given, I only got there (and won it) once, you guys are probably bored of the whole routine...

[bored]

Originally Posted by Dude

Given, I only got there (and won it) once, you guys are probably bored of the whole routine

Not me, I'd still be playing premier (If they'd still have me) if I could committ to making practices, didn't travel for work, didn't live in Maple Ridge yadda yadda yadda. So now it is about enjoying the game even though the soccer isn't quite the same.

There was always that arguement about which was tougher to win the league or the Pak Cup, I have always said it is tougher to win the Cup. We won the league a few times, 2 or 3 times - but that is coming from a bridesmaid, a Buffalo Bill if you will, always a bridesmaid - 4 times I think.

During the league you can have a couple of hic-ups and still win, not so with a successful cup run, have to be on at all times.

If you come last in any div you should be relegated, whether you are better than the promoted team or not - they earned the chance to get smashed in the higher div - that is why you play the season. I have no problem with 2nd and 3rd in say Div 2A not getting promoted even if they are better than the winners in 2B and 2C, they didn't win the league, that is the condition of advancing - be better than everyone else in your division.

[rangerforever]

Originally Posted by bored

I have always said it is tougher to win the Cup.

Nah.
Piece of cake really.

I don't get this 2A, 2B, 2C stuff myself and quite frankly find the promotional format a bit of a clusterfcuk.

What is it?
Is it degrading to play in Division 4 or something?
Actually it is...
Just kidding lads.

I was wondering when this debate would come up again.

And, I like a format where a team getting relegated gets one last chance to redeem themselves in some sort of playoff fixture.
All too often, yes, the side getting relegated is better than the side getting promoted, so prove it in a playoff.

Laters,
RF

[bored]

A hex on you and your dammed ranger team mates.... may you lose your hair and your fitness!

[bulljive]

I don't agree with the playoff, well maybe how it is right now with the 8th place team from div 1 but thats it. If you come last in your division you had 18 games of shots why one more. So the team that proved it all year who may have a few knocks at the end of the year, can still not get promoted because of 1 or 2 games. Dude I think you are totally on with the 10 teams. Right now there are probably 6-10 teams between the 3 divisons of div 2 that could be really competitive. Every week you would be playing a quality hard faught game instead of playing the Geu titans or other bottom feeders . The problem is when we got promoted there were really only 2 or 3 games where it was really a battle all year. It doesn't prepare you for div 1 in which everygame is tough. Sure some teams are playing with buddies but they can play in whatever div they fit in. eventually it will make every division in the fvsl stronger. Div 1 will be stronger, and the team going up may have a chance too stay up.

[TheRob]

Originally Posted by bored

A hex on you and your dammed ranger team mates.... may you lose your hair and your fitness!

Someone beat you to that about ten years ago Bored.

[bored]

I know, hee hee, it was a little more subtle than calling him a fat bastard though.

[rangerforever]

A what?

I may have lost my hair but certainly not my fitness.

And it was 9 years ago.

Do you believe this guy TR?

Originally Posted by bulljive

I instead of playing the Geu titans or other bottom feeders .

[Dude]

Let's be fair on the hair. It's not all lost...you still have the nice trimming around the edges of the center stage.

[Kevin Hector]

I think they don't have a Div 4 because the VMSL doesn't have one??? anyone else hear about that? You have an open Div4 with as many teams as you want then 10 in each Div up from that then have a cup for Div 4 one for Divs 3 & 2 then the Pak' cup which I would know nothing about

[TheRob]

Originally Posted by Rangerforever

A what?

I may have lost my hair but certainly not my fitness.

And it was 9 years ago.

Do you believe this guy TR?

He's got a point though. The Titans are crap and were supposed to be relegated last year. How they stayed up is beyond me.

The Tigers on the other hand, quite simply put, RULE.

[rangerforever]

Ooooops.



Titans, Tigers, what's the difference.....

[DJGMC]

I think the league should have two groups of ten in Div 2. Move 10 teams down to Div 3.
The bottom 3 in group ABC are no good. 20 teams in div 2 would be perfect, only 10 teams in div 2 is not enough.
Promotion and relegation is easy. Two teams in div 1 relegated and the top of each div 2 group go up.
The league should not carry a division 4. Div 4 is to low and makes the league look bad.

Thoughts ???

[Dude]

All that just to avoid a div. 4? How, again, does it make the league look bad by sorting teams out by their caliber? Right now, you have a very spread div. 2; if you want to play more competitive ball, you need to have motivation for not only promotion, but to avoid relegation. A tight div. 2 w/ 10 teams will bring up the level a fair bit, along w/ div. 1.

In the end, the goal is to have as strong a league as possible. Fixing this will be a step in the right direction.

[rangerforever]

Originally Posted by DJGMC

I think the league should have two groups of ten in Div 2. Move 10 teams down to Div 3.

Thoughts ???

My thoughts are chat like this generates ideas.

Agreed with Dude, the knob that he is, and youself, DJGMCCHRYSLERFORDMOTORCAR, I feel anyway to condense the pool is where it's at.

A bulk of people play in these three (Division 2) divisions and, along with it being a poplular discussion panel for a bunch of you twits on TTP the FVSL needs Clubs to step up and be able to challenge the higher division Clubs while not deflating their desire to do so by not taking forever to get there if they've got it.

Always been a conundrum but start segregating talent immediately, if obvious, half way through the year and ranking sides into tiered groups.

This way the cream rises to the top.

[Regs]

This way the cream rises to the top.

How true, how very true.

[bored]

Originally Posted by DJGMC

The league should not carry a division 4. Div 4 is to low and makes the league look bad.

Thoughts ???

Yes, thats pretty dumb. There are different levels of skill thats all, 40 teams in Div 2 and 3 to ensure there is no Div 4 is dumb. Set the amount of teams that is best for a league, (18 or 20 doesn't matter), the lowest division gets the extra teams until there are enough teams to create a 'new, lowest' division - in this case Div 4. This creates a more competive league in each Division, end result is every Division gets better but most importantly Premier gets better.

As said, the cream rises.