TFC Revolving Door

[johnnybluenose]

TFC cut Robert loose, sign striker Ruiz - Sportsnet.ca

Now they have waived Laurent Robert!!!???
Transferred Edu to Rangers
Signed up Ruiz and Johann Smith...

They have zero Canadians of note on their team save Brennan (Oh yeah, i said of note)

While I think the MLS in Toronto is good for Canada, it sure as hell is not helping the National Team. Our best player (De Guzman) is in La Liga, The second best (De Rosario) plays in Houston, the rest play in the Scandinavian leagues and Germany (Friend, Hutchinson, etc)

Hopefully the Caps and L'Impact get in soon so we can start developing Canadian kids properly, I see TFC has Toronto=America Junior syndrome too.

[Dude]

What are the import rules, and how do they apply to Canadians on the roster? Would expect the same as US teams, except of course nationality.

[italian_stallion21]

Originally Posted by Dude

What are the import rules, and how do they apply to Canadians on the roster? Would expect the same as US teams, except of course nationality.

Other than at specified times during preseason or through injury situations (e.g. a player added as a season-ending injury replacement), an MLS team shall have no more than 18 senior roster players at any time. The senior roster is comprised of the following players, who all count against a team's salary budget:


INTERNATIONAL PLAYERS
During the 2007 season, teams were allotted seven international spots per team, four Senior International and three Youth International slots, with the exception of Toronto FC who were awarded seven Senior International slots (three of which could be used only on domestic U.S. players) and five Youth slots. Each team has been awarded one additional international player slot, for a total of eight (8) International Player slots per team, and the distinction between Youth International and Senior International has been removed. Additionally, all international player slots will be tradable, and pre-existing trades of Youth International slots will be honored and adhered to as if they were trades of unrestricted international slots. Toronto FC has been awarded two additional international player slots, which they may use only on domestic U.S. players. These slots shall be in effect for two (2) seasons and will be reviewed at the end of the 2009 MLS League Season.

DOMESTIC PLAYERS
A domestic player is either a U.S. citizen, a permanent resident (green card holder) or the holder of other special status (e.g., has been granted refugee or asylum status).
* For Toronto FC, players with the legal right to work in Canada are considered domestic players (Canadian citizen, permanent resident, part of a protected class).

[johnnybluenose]

really that doesn't matter, the MLS can trade cap space, allocation spots etc...

Players belong to the MLS, not the teams, and MLS sides can not 'buy players', they trade them.

Fact is if TFC wanted to add/sign Canadians they could, but they don't. Ali Gerba finally hooked on with AFC Wimbledon IIRC, however he was unattached and without a club for a good 3-5 months, he could have easily hooked up with TFC.

Will Johnson goes to another MLS Side, and TFC trade for American via Bolton Johann Smith...it makes not a lot of sense...

Voyageurs/TFC Supporters are not all one and the same, however the V's that do follow TFC are vocal about the lack of Canadian Content other than Sutton and Brennan.

Adrian Cann went overseas, and maybe he was dying to get his feet wet in Europe, but is the football going to be that much better in Denmark, specifically on an average team in the Superliga? He is playing for Ebsjerg, where there is little to no hope of European Football, so where is the carrot? other than "playing in Europe"? (AaB, Brondby, and FC Kobenhaven are the three teams battling for the Superliga Title and European Football year to year in Denmark)

[Dude]

The carrot has to be living the dream. You simply aren't living the life of a footballer here, even if you play MLS. MLS becomes much more tolerable since you are playing at a decent level, and being paid a fair wage. Here you are a pro soccer player.

To be immersed in the culture of living as a European based professional footballer should be attractive enough. Besides, if you are going to roll the dice, and give it a shot, you have to stick it out. I don’t blame him one bit, and completely commend him for going for it. You only get one shot at this thing…

[johnnybluenose]

Of course I understand the living in Europe blah blah blah...

However, career wise he probably has a better shot of landing/devloping his career playing in the MLS, especially as a Canadian MNT member.

He will not be noticed playing on a distinctly average side in a distinctly average league in the "Sticks" of european football.

Edu gets a 2.5 million move to Rangers, Altidore gets a big money move to Villareal etc

I am not saying Cann is of that level, but will he ever get to be that good?

Geordie Lyall (different thing altogether) was a standout for the Caps, then goes and signs with Walsall in League 2/3 in England...The Football is garbage at that level for the most part...comparatively speaking.

TFC Exists as (Currently) the only Canadian Top-Flight pro team in a 'top flight' league.

[Dude]

You make those arguments- no offense- as somebody not able to give it a shot. There will always be the MLS or USL option for a player of his ability. Given the choice, I'd go there, simply for the cultural experience.

[johnnybluenose]

No offense taken, this is turning into a good debate/discussion.

Would you? Really...?

You can develop and play 90 a game in a good, not great league in the MLS, in your home country, where you don't have to endure 4+ hour flights to train with the MNT

or you can languish in relative obscurity playing for a mid table side in league dominated by the same three teams every year.

It would be like suiting up for Motherwell, or St Mirren in Scotland. Sure it is the SPL, and you get a few games a year in a big stadium against a massive club (Substitute FC Kobenhaven for the OF clubs, not that Kobenhaven is that big but...)

Sure the culture is one thing, but if he ever dreams of regular MNT Duty and a move to a better league, imho he should have stayed in North America, and TFC would have been a great spot for him.

I don't see playing foreign as the greatest stepping stone unless you are joining a program/club/academy known for developing players (Jonathan De Guzman and Jacob Lensky at Feyenoord, Julian De Guzman at Marseilles, now at Deportivo La Coruna, Hutchinson at Helsingborgs, now Kobenhaven, Radzinski @ Anderlecht (3 or 4 belgian clubs are well known for bringing youth through, especially foreigners without the ability to get work permits, specifically North Americans and Africans)

The list goes on....

However, the one real standout not in Europe is De Rosario, he spent one or two years at a BS German side, came back and had to work the hard way to get to the MLS through the Richmond kickers, but developed to the point that he could go to Europe and play nearly anywhere if he really wanted to. Since he is now 30, if he did that he would blow any chance of playing for TFC, which he has gone on record as stating he would love to finish his career there.

May I also note that De Rosario has the most impressive resume currently on the MNT, albeit MLS achievements mostly.
4 MLS Cups (Domestic Top Flight Titles)
2 MLS Cup MVP's
1 CONCACAF Gold Cup
2005,06, & 07 Canadian Player of the Year
MLS Goal of the year in 04 & 05
MLS Best XI 05, 06, & 07

[Dude]

Absolutely, but that's just me.

The wife and I plan on- sometime in the next 5 years- moving the fam to France, Spain, Portugal, or Angola for a couple of years. Just because.

If the game and only the game is all you care about, I suppose you could take your analytical approach to your career. But, if you factor in everything else- including what you want to experience, etc., I'd be looking at several options other than domestic.

What will playing in Toronto do for your overall life's experience? Isn't he from there? Gotta roll the dice.

[dezza]

Originally Posted by johnnybluenose

You can develop and play 90 a game in a good, not great league in the MLS, in your home country, where you don't have to endure 4+ hour flights to train with the MNT

And how long is the flight from Toronto to LA?

The travel around Denmark + the occasional flights home for MNT duty probably total less than playing MLS.

[johnnybluenose]

Not so Grasshopper.

They play in 'Conferences' in the MLS.

Regional travel.

You are right on a whole over the season, but transatlantic flights home for MNT games does less for our on pitch performance than anything else.

[Bronco]

Originally Posted by Dude

The wife and I plan on- sometime in the next 5 years- moving the fam to France, Spain, Portugal, or Angola for a couple of years. Just because.

Angola

[rangerforever]

Originally Posted by johnnybluenose

Fact is if TFC wanted to add/sign Canadians they could, but they don't.

Just like the Caps.
Coached by an Icelander with a ton of Americans in the side.
I had a good chat with a longtime Whitecaps front office guy from the 70s/80s who used one word to describe it:
Disgrace.

Seriously, Bobby and Mo Johnston are getting way too fcuking wrapped up in signings outside of this country and need to give their fcuking heads a shake.
The talent's here in Canada, let's groom it.

[kjohnsob]

They are a business not an agent of the CSA. If the canadians are good enough to play (and in the case of the Caps want to) they will.

[Regs]

Oh really? You might want to phone up Mr. Kerfoot and let him in on your little secret.

You sound like "richard".

That is not a good thing, just ask JBN.

[rangerforever]

Originally Posted by kjohnsob

They are a business not an agent of the CSA.

Did I mention that most of these Canadian guys, who I maintain are just as good as the overrated foriegn signings, mostly come at a lower price tag as well?
Simple economics and good business too.

The improvemnt in the Scotland side has been largley debated as to being a result of the increased domestic signings at Rangers and Celtic and the rest of the SPL over the last 5 years.
No allegiance or implied agency by the SPL clubs to the SFA at all.

I feel these days that Canadians have to be better than their competition in these clubs.
It used to be if a player was just as good as the other, his domestic roots were the overriding tie breaker.
My humble opinion is the opposite these days and that TFC and the Caps are not signing enough talented Canadians.
They have their noses and tongues shoved up the MLS and A-League's asses.

[johnnybluenose]

The lack of Canadians on the caps is a misnomer...

maybe two years ago and four years ago, but not now...

Of the usual, typical starters...there are only a few that are not Canadian.

10 of the 27 Caps players are foreign.
Hirano (Japan) Jarun (Palestine) Charles (St Vincent and Grenadines) Moose, Nolly, & Martin (yank) Orgill & Adlery (Jamaican) Sebrango (Cuban, but has been in Canada for like 20 years) Arze (Bolivia), Goddard (T&T)

All the players save Pozniak and Cann that have left this year on transfers were Yankee or Liberian , Serge is Canadian/Serbian.

if you look at the Caps usual Starting 11

-------------Sebrango-----------Addlery-------------
Valente-------Nash-----------Clarke----------Martin
Hirano-------Jarun-----------Charles---------Lyall
--------------------Nollly--------------------------
You have 4 Canadians, 2 Yanks, 1 Reggae Boy, 1 Palestinian, 1 Grenadan, 1 Japanese, 1 Cuban that has been in Canada forever(Sebrango)

The best players (Nash & Clarke) are Canadian. Cann was a regular and capped before he bolted for Europe.

The Caps do a fine job IMHO of Canadians...TFC is the disgrace...especially considering they are the only "pro" team in Canada if you ask Kevin Harmse (also got capped as a Whitecap)

[johnnybluenose]

The Whitecaps use the best local talent they can get their hands on...I'm sure young Tyler Roselund would have played for the Caps and probably will once they go MLS if they can land him...

The Whitecaps residency is chocker-block full of Young Canucks.
click the link and look at the maple leafs beside names!!!Vancouver Whitecaps Residency - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[johnnybluenose]

Montreal: 13 of 26 on roster are Canadian
TFC: 9 of 25 are Canadian (only 2 or 3 even get to play: Sutton, Brennan, Melo or Attakora-Gyan)

I'd say the Caps are doing more than their fair share of bringing up Canuck talent.

And I am not trying to defend the Caps, in fact I think the way they do a lot of things is disgraceful, however their best players are Canadian, they have treated them well (Valente, Nash, Clarke, Kindel, Lyall, Morris (Until this year with his 'retirement ceremony'))

[johnnybluenose]

Funny, just as I finished typing that I open up a new tab on teh web and see that the Caps just signed two more VAG players...

Bobbaduzzi a VAGitarian?'Impact' internationals add scoring depth to Whitecaps