Men moving to Summer? - Page 2

**johnnybluenose** · 05-12-2008, 11:43 AM

@ Regs, I simply meant "fun" with respect to shits and giggles, not necessarily results etc...

I have more Fun as in recreation/competition etc when playing with and against the highest skilled guys I can get my fat ass on a field with.

I was simply mentioning about how summer soccer, with relaxed roster rules, etc breeds the smile on the face, pints and BBQ after "Fun"

@ Dude:
I really would love to see the upper and elite levels "succeed" more than they are now...But a "Super League"? I agree that they should not and do not give a shit about the dregs of Senior Soccer, the weekend warriors, has-beens, and never-were's... However there is something to be said for strong clubs and organisations that prop up the leagues and so on...The premier team should be the pinnacle of every good club, and every player in the club (Pipe Dream or not) should aspire to be able to play there.

Does the Premier Level teams not rely somewhat on the club structure most play in? I guess what Regs said there about wrinkles to iron out comes into play...

If you are talking about this merely as a first step towards moving all soccer and the seasons in which it is played over to the summer than I am all for it,

But as usual, i see the BCSA mishandling this a year or two after it is started, and not go "all the way" and then you get a big disconnect in as far as the linkage you get from grassroots all the way to the Premier Level of Senior Soccer.

As far as watching the games go I am all for it 100%... I would be out to as many games as my life/wife would allow me to get out to

The game of the week thing at Swangard is awesome...and this goes back to the thread a while back about how the local papers report on Lacrosse, and sponsorship and fan support, and why senior soccer in BC needs that.

If this gets off the ground it will be awesome, as long as there is someone still pushing for the whole works to be moved along with the top rung eventually.

**bulljive** · 05-12-2008, 01:26 PM

Think of the small family run buisinesses this will effect. Like say ACBC's mitten supplier.

**Dude** · 05-12-2008, 01:47 PM

Bully- those are probably made by some 6 year old orphan kid in India anyhow. Eliminating ACBC's mitten supply will save, by my accounting, 872.6 fingers / week.

Also, there is a carbon footprint reduction benefit, because at the end of the year, there will be one less cargo boat making its way across the ocean.

Think of the sea life this will preserve, with the overriding benefit being the Empire Penguins will be better fed, thus staving off the extinction of this majestic race.

Regs- this summer season needs to happen- for our children, and our children’s children.

Reccos · 05-13-2008, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regs

How did this degenerate into talk concerning youth? Fcuk the youth for now, this is entirely about fixing something that is "wrong" with the senior soccer system at the highest level.

No offense but if your idea of fun is to play with and against lower skilled players, you have no place in playing top-level.

Yes, there would be many growing pains in trying to move things over but to the point about signing players on permits and CAT stuff - both have proven to be ineffective measures in the grande scheme of things.

Fields? There are EASILY enough parks available in the summer NOW to accomodate 15-20 teams in a 'super-league'.

One of the other talking points was the idea of a 'game of the week' perhaps out of Swangard (or a similar venue)...

Well said, Regs.

It is time that senior soccer took a very hard look at what it has been doing over the past number of years as the VMSL is no longer THE league the best players want to play in any more. Not that there isn't talent - there is- but it seems that the top talent is spread over a lot of teams in a lot of leagues and the best no longer are knocking on the VMSL team doors.

It is not about how many teams are in Premier either - the VMSL is no longer attracting the best players. The CAT system has been a huge factor in reducing the quality and reducing the attractiveness of the league to top players IMO as it dramatically reduced the number of players playing competitive soccer. I found it ironic that Willi Azzi called the FVSL a house league (if he said that) as it was his idea to make house league teams out of what were good capable div 1 and 2 teams in his league.

It will not be easy to make changes as it all takes money and amateur sport draws flies.

Player movement (gypsies) hurts too. Maybe look at a lacrosse model for teams in a super league. Granted they play indoors with gates to sell tickets. Not sure the fan or sponsor base is here for soccer but it would worth it to explore.

The summer season is far better in my view if fields can be freed up and maintained as the weather is better and less injuries due to the cold. I used to coach both winter and summer and there were many summer games that I felt were played at a higher level than winter due simply to the weather and better fields. Granted it interferes with some holidays but if it is a super league, then it might work.

Hands of Stone · 05-13-2008, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reccos

The summer season is far better in my view if fields can be freed up and maintained as the weather is better and less injuries due to the cold.

Someone from BC soccer or the Senior leagues should perhaps phone some of the various City Park managers around the lower mainland if this is the case. It seems that every city is building new turf fields for WINTER soccer, unless we want to play on turf in the summer (ie. lots more injuries). There are two more being built at Burnaby lake right now, more turf out at Coquitlam center and anouther beside S. Surrey turf. There fields are HUGE investments for the cities, mostly for the soccer players of the lower mainland. I can't see any reason why soccer needs to be changed to the summer, if all these fields are being built to help increase the amount of field times for all levels of play and ages in the lower mainland.

hos

Guinness · 05-13-2008, 10:07 AM

The PCSL and PDL are in place to accomidate "elite level" soccer for those that would like to play all year and not pull a thingy in a beer league game. Don't get me wrong, Knights league, co-ed etc. are lots of fun and do not take up too much of your "summer holidays". That said, I also enjoy playing in the summer in great facilities at a serious level. However, this debate comes back and from my view I still wonder why players will not commit to the PCSL. It appears to fill the need for a top level program, but for years the same players that don't like the winter weather balk at training in the summer!

Why? I guess Regs would know, he seems to have all the answers!

IMO, it won't work, but I am open to the possibility.

**Dude** · 05-13-2008, 10:15 AM

What is better? To fix the root core problem, or improve on something you are doing wrong in the first place?

The topic relates only to the elite senior men’s level. The demand on the natural surface for this group is completely manageable. I suggested it should in time include the elite youth, which would be more, yet still manageable in partnership w/ the clubs w/ teams playing in that “Super League”.

Under those levels, there are, what, 4 times the players? Likely more? With the growth in population, there will always be demand and users for those turf facilities in the winter time.

**Dude** · 05-13-2008, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guinness

However, this debate comes back and from my view I still wonder why players will not commit to the PCSL. It appears to fill the need for a top level program, but for years the same players that don't like the winter weather balk at training in the summer!

Why? I guess Regs would know, he seems to have all the answers!

IMO, it won't work, but I am open to the possibility.

My guess (outside the loop) is that most players dedicate themselves to the most meaningful competition: Provincials.

If the qualification for Provincials was shifted to the "Super" league, you'd see those Elite level players shifting their focus to the summer season.

bandcamp · 05-13-2008, 10:21 AM

Well I don't know how relevant it is to summer vs winter but the rugby model seems solid. First half of the season is just played within your own league and the top teams from each of the Vancouver, Valley and Island leagues form a Super League for the second half of the year. They travel with a first 15 and a second 15 and games are played back to back.

It is clear the VMSL is the strongest league but it is also clear that the top teams in the VISL and FVSL are easily at this level. Well, more the VISL than the FVSL but they'll get there one day

Give the best of each league the chance to play each other throughout the season and not just at Provincials time.

Maybe the winter season is the qualifying period and the summer is the Super League...

lfc3 · 05-13-2008, 10:29 AM

Very quick two cents.

One of the biggest issues I have as well as others I am sure is the length of the winter season and the lack of continuity. It is great up to Christmas but with that break and the inevitable weather issues, and for many teams a sit around and wait for weeks for their biggest game of the year, provincials, leads to a burn out. Seroiusly, unless you get on a cup run, the league is almost done by Christmas and it is a long wait until mid April.

I have been involved in the PCSL, and although it was not the same connection as I have with my winter team, something to be said for playing a short compact season. Regardless of season(s).

moneyman · 05-13-2008, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Hector

Soccer should be played in the winter like it is in Europe. they have the same weather that we have. it's not like it is back east with all the snow.

I must agree with Mr Hector soccer is made to be played in the cold and bitter weather of Vancouver. I think the guys who want the league to be played in the summer are the same bitches who show up wearing there girlfriends or wifes pink mittens and matching touque to the game.

Let's go out on a limb and say maybe someone plays a different sport, like hardball, do they have to chose one or the other? Like little boy blue said he plays summer soccer to stay in shape. Most of the teams I've played on you sign 25 guys and have difficulty getting 11-12 in july. I say winter soccer for the rich, fcuk lets go to Mexico for a month when the weather is bad here. I know the tru Elite could afford it eh Taxman.

$$$MAN

**Regs** · 05-13-2008, 12:05 PM

Currently BC champ is declared in May. Nationals are in October!

If you think the continuity is an issue just in our leagues (which I happen to agree with 100%), we don't exactly help ourselves keeping the status quo.

As for those who say Europe plays in the Winter so should we... well, as a COUNTRY we don't play through the winter, in fact, we CAN'T play through the winter. Furthermore, in Europe, there are no continuity issues because they are not at the mercy of the municipalities we have here where the pitches have the shittiest drainage known to man and fields get closed so easily (not to mention 1 cm of snow cancels games).

Yes, we manage to get everything in and it is the same for everyone within the province but why can't it be improved?

JC - I don't know why your logic sometimes continues to amaze me - I should be used to it by now

A national championship is the ultimate goal for senior amateur teams. Currently that means playing in the WINTER. Get it? Can you connect the dots?

beckhamandposh · 05-13-2008, 01:16 PM

keep all the recreational teams in the winter leagues and those now on "A" form who want to play for the National championship should be playing in a newly formed Summer league, which then would end closer to the October tourney. Maybe switch the PCSL to winter and create a new super league for summer on the "A" form.

of course there will be some scheduling problems with summer tourneys and nation's cup. Plus add the whining from wags about ruining their summer weekends

LION · 05-13-2008, 02:56 PM

The four long weekends... May, July.1, Aug, and even Sept long weekend can be "rest/bye weekends". Preset and knowing far in advace when they are arriving.
(Not like waking up to snow on a Saturday morning, to a phone call, Games cancelled!! Are you kidding me!!) I rather have that weekend back, to make travel plans or anything. Knowing.)

So the season would have a much nicer flow to it.

There shouldn't be many or any games cancelled in "the summer league".
So those weekends can be used as the club or players choose.

Or take a 2 to 3 week vacation in the summer and miss 1 game. Knowing.

We lose 4 weeks or so now in the Winter league. then sit around and wait for big cup games.

It can be set up well, with a flow, running right in to B.C. cup play as well as a National tournament at the end of the year in October.

So there goes that arguement.

LION · 05-13-2008, 03:04 PM

more....

If you wanna get in to competing with other sports for athletes, I would rather pick up from Canadas Hockey athletes then Hardball. please...

as well,
If you are not in to playing competitive in the sun, and think its for drinking beers etc..
Then you wouldn't be in this league. I don't think there are many players that have that mindset and not wanna run for 4 summer months.. on grass sometimes...with the sun on your neck.... and the beers taste better in the summer after a win. (or do they in the parking when you get kicked out of the changeroom in November? if they had a changeroom)

Its an all round better move for Canadian Soccer.
Isn't that the overall goal of any provincial program. Shouldn't it be.

LION

**Ballbaby** · 05-13-2008, 03:28 PM

I have always been an advocate for playing the elite or competitive soccer through the summer months, simply because the rest of our country does it!

We are at a continual disadvantage travelling to Nationals and playing teams who have JUST finished their season and jump straight into Cup play, with the same players, same mentality and competitiveness that got them there in the first place.

The brand of football would be substantially better as well. How can anyone argue that?

Logistically, it can happen and players will support it if it is THE route to a Provincial title and National title. They will alter their lives around this if it is important enough to them.

Very happy to hear this.

**Dude** · 05-13-2008, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ballbaby

Logistically, it can happen and players will support it if it is THE route to a Provincial title and National title. They will alter their lives around this if it is important enough to them.

Bingo.

Dizou · 05-14-2008, 10:53 AM

Love the idea! If it works in every other province it will work in BC. Living in Calgary now, i see how the leagues are run here. Nobody complains about summer ball and during the winter guys play indoor or take the winter off. Lower levels play during the week which you could also do in Vanc, lots of guys wouldn't mind having the weekend off. In Alberta Major they play on weekends so teams can travel from Calgary to Edmonton and play 2 games in one weekend to limit cost and travel, it's just the accepted way of doing things.
I also think you would get more support from fans, nicer weather....
The big gain is that BC would play a continuous season going to Nationals. Right now BC is always behind the 8-ball with teams like the Callies here in Alberta going to Nationals playing their best.

whistle blower · 05-14-2008, 11:00 AM

If the games move to summer whats everyone going to do in the fall and winter.

LION · 05-14-2008, 11:28 AM

fall and winter?
so for 4 months.. nov.dec.jan and feb.

hmm...

work, school, travel. watch the canucks. party. spend time with family, go to vegas, rent movies, spoon your lover, make babies, go to mexico, meet randoms, play beach soccer. etc.. etc..

oh ya.. there is also indoor soccer and i'm sure a "winter league" as the knights league can be set up.

05-12-2008, 11:43 AM	#21 (permalink)
johnnybluenose Premium Member A Better Bastard Joined: Oct 2004 Location: Nomads Land Posts: 2,668	Re: Men moving to Summer? @ Regs, I simply meant "fun" with respect to shits and giggles, not necessarily results etc... I have more Fun as in recreation/competition etc when playing with and against the highest skilled guys I can get my fat ass on a field with. I was simply mentioning about how summer soccer, with relaxed roster rules, etc breeds the smile on the face, pints and BBQ after "Fun" @ Dude: I really would love to see the upper and elite levels "succeed" more than they are now...But a "Super League"? I agree that they should not and do not give a shit about the dregs of Senior Soccer, the weekend warriors, has-beens, and never-were's... However there is something to be said for strong clubs and organisations that prop up the leagues and so on...The premier team should be the pinnacle of every good club, and every player in the club (Pipe Dream or not) should aspire to be able to play there. Does the Premier Level teams not rely somewhat on the club structure most play in? I guess what Regs said there about wrinkles to iron out comes into play... If you are talking about this merely as a first step towards moving all soccer and the seasons in which it is played over to the summer than I am all for it, But as usual, i see the BCSA mishandling this a year or two after it is started, and not go "all the way" and then you get a big disconnect in as far as the linkage you get from grassroots all the way to the Premier Level of Senior Soccer. As far as watching the games go I am all for it 100%... I would be out to as many games as my life/wife would allow me to get out to The game of the week thing at Swangard is awesome...and this goes back to the thread a while back about how the local papers report on Lacrosse, and sponsorship and fan support, and why senior soccer in BC needs that. If this gets off the ground it will be awesome, as long as there is someone still pushing for the whole works to be moved along with the top rung eventually.

05-12-2008, 01:26 PM	#22 (permalink)
bulljive Premium Member A Better Bastard Joined: Nov 2003 Location: delta Posts: 1,213	Re: Men moving to Summer? Think of the small family run buisinesses this will effect. Like say ACBC's mitten supplier. __________________ Fate has left me highly skilled and loaded with talent. ~Vince Vaughn~

05-12-2008, 01:47 PM	#23 (permalink)
Dude Premium Member A Better Bastard Joined: Jul 2001 Location: Where my kids are Posts: 7,817 Images: 48	Re: Men moving to Summer? Bully- those are probably made by some 6 year old orphan kid in India anyhow. Eliminating ACBC's mitten supply will save, by my accounting, 872.6 fingers / week. Also, there is a carbon footprint reduction benefit, because at the end of the year, there will be one less cargo boat making its way across the ocean. Think of the sea life this will preserve, with the overriding benefit being the Empire Penguins will be better fed, thus staving off the extinction of this majestic race. Regs- this summer season needs to happen- for our children, and our children’s children.

05-13-2008, 10:07 AM	#26 (permalink)
Guinness Member Joined: Sep 2001 Location: At home with the Nations Cup Posts: 3,357 Images: 1	Re: Men moving to Summer? The PCSL and PDL are in place to accomidate "elite level" soccer for those that would like to play all year and not pull a thingy in a beer league game. Don't get me wrong, Knights league, co-ed etc. are lots of fun and do not take up too much of your "summer holidays". That said, I also enjoy playing in the summer in great facilities at a serious level. However, this debate comes back and from my view I still wonder why players will not commit to the PCSL. It appears to fill the need for a top level program, but for years the same players that don't like the winter weather balk at training in the summer! Why? I guess Regs would know, he seems to have all the answers! IMO, it won't work, but I am open to the possibility. __________________ AVATAR enlarged: http://www.takethepiss.com/multimedi...s&cutoffdate=1

05-13-2008, 10:15 AM	#27 (permalink)
Dude Premium Member A Better Bastard Joined: Jul 2001 Location: Where my kids are Posts: 7,817 Images: 48	Re: Men moving to Summer? What is better? To fix the root core problem, or improve on something you are doing wrong in the first place? The topic relates only to the elite senior men’s level. The demand on the natural surface for this group is completely manageable. I suggested it should in time include the elite youth, which would be more, yet still manageable in partnership w/ the clubs w/ teams playing in that “Super League”. Under those levels, there are, what, 4 times the players? Likely more? With the growth in population, there will always be demand and users for those turf facilities in the winter time.

05-13-2008, 10:21 AM	#29 (permalink)
bandcamp Member Joined: Jul 2001 Location: copasetic state Posts: 664	Re: Men moving to Summer? Well I don't know how relevant it is to summer vs winter but the rugby model seems solid. First half of the season is just played within your own league and the top teams from each of the Vancouver, Valley and Island leagues form a Super League for the second half of the year. They travel with a first 15 and a second 15 and games are played back to back. It is clear the VMSL is the strongest league but it is also clear that the top teams in the VISL and FVSL are easily at this level. Well, more the VISL than the FVSL but they'll get there one day Give the best of each league the chance to play each other throughout the season and not just at Provincials time. Maybe the winter season is the qualifying period and the summer is the Super League...

05-13-2008, 10:29 AM	#30 (permalink)
lfc3 Member Joined: Sep 2007 Location: Langley Posts: 38	Re: Men moving to Summer? Very quick two cents. One of the biggest issues I have as well as others I am sure is the length of the winter season and the lack of continuity. It is great up to Christmas but with that break and the inevitable weather issues, and for many teams a sit around and wait for weeks for their biggest game of the year, provincials, leads to a burn out. Seroiusly, unless you get on a cup run, the league is almost done by Christmas and it is a long wait until mid April. I have been involved in the PCSL, and although it was not the same connection as I have with my winter team, something to be said for playing a short compact season. Regardless of season(s).

05-13-2008, 12:05 PM	#32 (permalink)
Regs Respect & Honour A Total Bastard Joined: Jun 2001 Location: TTP Headquarters Posts: 11,424 Images: 233 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Men moving to Summer? Currently BC champ is declared in May. Nationals are in October! If you think the continuity is an issue just in our leagues (which I happen to agree with 100%), we don't exactly help ourselves keeping the status quo. As for those who say Europe plays in the Winter so should we... well, as a COUNTRY we don't play through the winter, in fact, we CAN'T play through the winter. Furthermore, in Europe, there are no continuity issues because they are not at the mercy of the municipalities we have here where the pitches have the shittiest drainage known to man and fields get closed so easily (not to mention 1 cm of snow cancels games). Yes, we manage to get everything in and it is the same for everyone within the province but why can't it be improved? JC - I don't know why your logic sometimes continues to amaze me - I should be used to it by now A national championship is the ultimate goal for senior amateur teams. Currently that means playing in the WINTER. Get it? Can you connect the dots? __________________ Take the piss (out of someone) vb. British -- to mock, deride, poke fun (at). This vulgarism has been in widespread use since the late 1940s. The original idea evoked by the expression was that of deflating someone, recalling the description of a self-important blusterer as 'all piss and wind.'

05-13-2008, 01:16 PM	#33 (permalink)
beckhamandposh Member Joined: Aug 2007 Location: brandy's Posts: 154	Re: Men moving to Summer? keep all the recreational teams in the winter leagues and those now on "A" form who want to play for the National championship should be playing in a newly formed Summer league, which then would end closer to the October tourney. Maybe switch the PCSL to winter and create a new super league for summer on the "A" form. of course there will be some scheduling problems with summer tourneys and nation's cup. Plus add the whining from wags about ruining their summer weekends

05-13-2008, 02:56 PM	#34 (permalink)
LION Member Joined: Mar 2002 Location: East Van Posts: 637	Re: Men moving to Summer? The four long weekends... May, July.1, Aug, and even Sept long weekend can be "rest/bye weekends". Preset and knowing far in advace when they are arriving. (Not like waking up to snow on a Saturday morning, to a phone call, Games cancelled!! Are you kidding me!!) I rather have that weekend back, to make travel plans or anything. Knowing.) So the season would have a much nicer flow to it. There shouldn't be many or any games cancelled in "the summer league". So those weekends can be used as the club or players choose. Or take a 2 to 3 week vacation in the summer and miss 1 game. Knowing. We lose 4 weeks or so now in the Winter league. then sit around and wait for big cup games. It can be set up well, with a flow, running right in to B.C. cup play as well as a National tournament at the end of the year in October. So there goes that arguement.

05-13-2008, 03:04 PM	#35 (permalink)
LION Member Joined: Mar 2002 Location: East Van Posts: 637	Re: Men moving to Summer? more.... If you wanna get in to competing with other sports for athletes, I would rather pick up from Canadas Hockey athletes then Hardball. please... as well, If you are not in to playing competitive in the sun, and think its for drinking beers etc.. Then you wouldn't be in this league. I don't think there are many players that have that mindset and not wanna run for 4 summer months.. on grass sometimes...with the sun on your neck.... and the beers taste better in the summer after a win. (or do they in the parking when you get kicked out of the changeroom in November? if they had a changeroom) Its an all round better move for Canadian Soccer. Isn't that the overall goal of any provincial program. Shouldn't it be. LION

05-13-2008, 03:28 PM	#36 (permalink)
Ballbaby Premium Member A Better Bastard Joined: Jul 2001 Location: in a parking lot with lots and lots of speedbumps Posts: 1,396 Images: 9	Re: Men moving to Summer? I have always been an advocate for playing the elite or competitive soccer through the summer months, simply because the rest of our country does it! We are at a continual disadvantage travelling to Nationals and playing teams who have JUST finished their season and jump straight into Cup play, with the same players, same mentality and competitiveness that got them there in the first place. The brand of football would be substantially better as well. How can anyone argue that? Logistically, it can happen and players will support it if it is THE route to a Provincial title and National title. They will alter their lives around this if it is important enough to them. Very happy to hear this.

05-14-2008, 10:53 AM	#38 (permalink)
Dizou Member Joined: Nov 2001 Location: Still trying to find myself Posts: 51	Re: Men moving to Summer? Love the idea! If it works in every other province it will work in BC. Living in Calgary now, i see how the leagues are run here. Nobody complains about summer ball and during the winter guys play indoor or take the winter off. Lower levels play during the week which you could also do in Vanc, lots of guys wouldn't mind having the weekend off. In Alberta Major they play on weekends so teams can travel from Calgary to Edmonton and play 2 games in one weekend to limit cost and travel, it's just the accepted way of doing things. I also think you would get more support from fans, nicer weather.... The big gain is that BC would play a continuous season going to Nationals. Right now BC is always behind the 8-ball with teams like the Callies here in Alberta going to Nationals playing their best.

05-14-2008, 11:00 AM	#39 (permalink)
whistle blower Member Joined: Mar 2003 Location: Football City Posts: 175	Re: Men moving to Summer? If the games move to summer whats everyone going to do in the fall and winter. __________________ Advantage

05-14-2008, 11:28 AM	#40 (permalink)
LION Member Joined: Mar 2002 Location: East Van Posts: 637	Re: Men moving to Summer? fall and winter? so for 4 months.. nov.dec.jan and feb. hmm... work, school, travel. watch the canucks. party. spend time with family, go to vegas, rent movies, spoon your lover, make babies, go to mexico, meet randoms, play beach soccer. etc.. etc.. oh ya.. there is also indoor soccer and i'm sure a "winter league" as the knights league can be set up.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)