Indo's Town Crying Space

Regs · 01-22-2002, 02:04 PM

By McManus (Admin) (209.53.56.44 - 209.53.56.44) on Tuesday, May 4, 1999 - 09:57 am:

The Provincial Cup thread was getting totally ****ed-up so I'm moving all moans and general replies into here. Why doesn't someone from Indo make their own web site devoted solely to this cause?...

~Regs.

By gilly (142.58.122.50 - 142.58.122.50) on Sunday, May 2, 1999 - 11:18 pm:

Forum Regulars,

Metro Ford 3 Indo 0 (overtime)

If you were in Victoria, you would not have believed the travesty that took place. Perhaps the greatest injustice in the history of BC soccer, that could lead to MAJOR changes in the BCSA.

The game is officially under protest. I will not comment on the major underlining issues that took place until after the protest. However, the BCSA has to make a decision, the right decision, to replay the match sometime this week to see which TEAM is deserving of the opportunity to play in the provincial final. Failure to do so, will result in the public scrutinization of the BCSA and its officials and will change how soccer in BC is played forever.

Quick game summary: Indo 3 red cards (Didar, Prit & Sandy), Metro Ford no cards. Metro Ford scores on a controversial PK in the second OT, yes controversial and in the second OT to win. Two other goals were scored once we were insensed with the games injustice.

Fumed, Gilly.

By ferg (142.58.121.3 - 142.58.121.3) on Monday, May 3, 1999 - 02:15 am:

Having just returned from what was suppose to be an exciting, competitive bout between Indo and Metro Ford, my dissatisfaction as to what happened on the park has led me to voice my thoughts to the forum for the first time.

As a fan (not player) of not only Indo but the game of soccer as a whole, I am disgusted by what I still can't believe transpired in Victoria. It is my understanding that the purpose of this semi-final game was to allow the players on the field the opportunity to prove which is the better team. Unfortunately, it would appear that the officials were not concerned with obtaining such an outcome on this day.
- 1st half- Danny with a clear scoring opportunity taken down with no call.
- 1st half- Didar red card. Any official who had an understanding of the importance of this game would have allotted a yellow card or stern warning (Especially considering the number of times that contact had been made with Didar). CORRECTION: such an official would have given a yellow to the Indo player who DID elbow Elliott in the mouth PRIOR to MF crossing centre. Thus, allowing an entertaining match to continue.
- OT- 2 red cards and a controversial PK in 2nd half of OT is simply BS.

The ref could not have guaranteed a MF win in a more fashionable manner. With 1 player short and Didar gone, Indo still managed to successfully limit MF chances. This game had all the signs of heading to PK's, but what chance did Indo have as the officials continued to slaughter the game. If it is true that the ref officiates at the junior level, it is hard to comprehend why the BCSA would select him to ref a semi-final game of the provincial cup.

It is simply not enough for players (of any team) and fans alike who watched this game to say, "Indo got screwed" and move on to the finals. this was not just a result of 1 or 2 bad calls, it was an accummulation of unbelievable one-sided decisions made by the officials. If there is any type of fairness in this league the game will be replayed in order to determine who should play Fireman on Sunday. If not, what happened at Royal Athletic Park was not about the game of soccer, it was about which teams the BCSA feel should be given the opportunity to win the Province Cup and go on to represent BC nationally.

Classic quote of the day, "...Indo's problem is they need to show composure when playing at this level..."

Considering what went down today, I congratulate Indo on their level of composure. Despite increasing odds that were placed upon them in OT, they continued to play the game. Having class, they chose not to resort to malicious play vs. MF. How many other teams can say they would do the same under such circumstances? If the game had been called the same for both teams and both teams given equal opportunity with Indo coming up short, at least Indo could look back on this and say, "we weren't the better team on the park today" and reflect on the great season that they have had. If this game is not replayed, then their great season is bitterly tainted by this pathetic excuse for a soccer game. It is also a poor way for MF to say they made it to the final.

Final score: Officials 3 Indo 0

Not only did Indo not deserve to lose this way, MF did not deserve to win this way.

By Martin Rose (Martin) (207.194.147.104 - 207.194.147.104) on Monday, May 3, 1999 - 11:19 am:

I would like to remind anyone lodging opinions regarding the level of officiating in Victoria this weekend to please refrain from associating this with "the league". The League I assume you are referring to is the VMSL of which both teams in this contest are members. The Province Cup is a competition run exclusively by the BCSA not "the league". Therefore addressing any comments about this game to the VMSL will not produce any results.

The Premier Division final between Pegasus and Westside is now being rescheduled for the third time in 24hours.

First it was going to be Saturday 2pm at Kinsmen. The park was booked and then Rino suddenly demanded to play in Burnaby at Confederation instead (I assume because Kinsmen in Peg's home field). As that possibilty was being looked into Pegasus informed the League that they now cannot make Saturday due to a Brad Higgs fundraiser plus work commitments. It is now possible that the game will be played on a week night(maybe Friday night) at a venue TBA.

Schedule for Sunday's Province Cup Final
Firefighters vs Metro-Ford
2:30pm Town Centre Stadium, Coquitlam
Subject to Indo-Canadians protest expected at B.C. Soccer today claiming (surprise, surprise) that the referee was racist. No decision will be made on the protest until the referee's report is filed. I know that Rob Brown and a few other BCSA reps were at the game and saw everything first hand so I expect a quick decision. Apparently there was also some talk of this being taken to the B.C. Humans Right Commission or something like that. If I hear anymore news I will post it here.

Marty

By McManus (Admin) (209.53.56.44 - 209.53.56.44) on Monday, May 3, 1999 - 11:43 am:

Marty,

Thanks for the update. Please keep us posted here.

~Regs.

By raujla (152.163.205.52 - 152.163.205.52) on Monday, May 3, 1999 - 12:02 pm:

Marty,
Regards to what you said:

"Subject to Indo-Canadians protest expected at B.C. Soccer today claiming (surprise, surprise) that the referee was racist"

What do you mean by this? Do you think Indo-Canadians always play the race card when faced with adversity?

I'm a bit taken back by your comment. It's comments like yours that really stir people up. I play for Indo and at no time did anyone claim that the referee was racist. The referee simply had a brutal game.

rob

By McManus (Admin) (209.53.56.44 - 209.53.56.44) on Monday, May 3, 1999 - 12:23 pm:

Auj,

Could you give us a report from a player's perspective? I trust your judgement and know what it feels like to feel jobbed by a ref. From your point of view, was it so bad that a replay should be warranted?

~Regs

By gilly (207.23.221.204 - 207.23.221.204) on Monday, May 3, 1999 - 01:23 pm:

Martin Rose,

Perhaps if you were in Victoria, you would have seen full hand what actually took place.

Your comment about the officials view towards our team in particular appears misguided. People like you, don't understand a players perspective and that the entire season is a waste of time if you don't do well in the provincials. We feel slighted and want an EQUAL opportunity to see who the best team is.

Still fuming, Gilly

By Grapes du jour (216.66.138.71 - 216.66.138.71) on Monday, May 3, 1999 - 04:47 pm:

Get over it Indo!

Why does the loss of a cup game all of a sudden bring about the cries of "waste of a season" and "injustice by officials"? There are a number of teams who did not advance to or in cup play that would love the opportunity to play in a semifinal game without trumping the officiating as the reason for the loss. We all go on the field with the chance of bad calls and officiating that does not live up to our own "personal expectations", but to blame a loss and the waste of a season on one man is surely sour grapes and you are not giving your team, yourslef, or our sport enough credit for the "way the ball bounces".
Regarding the comment from a VMSL league official (MR) about the race card on this forum ("surprise, surprise"), it was ignorant on his part and I assume an apology to the intelligence and integrity of Indo players is in order. As far as taking the protest to human rights, get over it. We sometimes live and die by the bad calls in a game, and we must not make more out of this than it is.
Someone above me on this forum made the comment that the ref should have given a yellow to Didar and not a red due to the importance of the game. Would this not have shown even more bad officiating to go against his own opinion as the official in charge and only give a yellow to keep a player on the pitch because it is a big game? I think so.
Indo..............be proud of your team. Be proud of your excellent season. Be proud of your effort. But don't drag "the game" down to the level that you may feel one man was at on Sunday.

By Martin Rose (Martin) (159.33.2.50 - 159.33.2.50) on Monday, May 3, 1999 - 06:34 pm:

Rob and Gilly.

Thanks for your replys. Let me elaborate on my personal feelings regarding this subject.

No I was not in Victoria but as a VMSL executive and league scheduler I have to deal with many complaints against officials. I spoke with several sources before posting my message that Indo was protesting because of racism. Of course no one posting on this website seemed to want to bring up the reason for the protest so I thought it best to get it out into the open.

The BCSA and William Azzi both told me this. Armar Grewal had called Azzi on this subject and a complaint to the Human Rights commission was mentioned.

My experience with Indo is not that they "play the race card" at *every* opportunity (Other teams like AC Richmond used to). But Indo and other teams (the organizers - I have no real experience with the individual players), whether consciously or as an automatic defense response, regularly bring up racism when they don't get their way. This is especially true as far as Indo is concerned when it comes to their dealings with the Richmond Parks Board (Just from experience the Richmond Parks Board is biased against the whole VMSL not any particular group). Unfortunately it just sounds like someone crying wolf.

However, Rob's comment "I play for Indo and at no time did anyone claim that the referee was racist. The referee simply had a brutal game." shows me that this is not a tactic shared by the team in general.

Marty

By Sandman (206.12.173.206 - 206.12.173.206) on Monday, May 3, 1999 - 06:59 pm:

I really find it difficult to really understand what transpired at Royal Athletic on Sunday afternoon. All I know is that it was the worst display of officiating that I have ever witnessed at any level of any sport. Yes a protest has been filed due to the incompetency of the officiating crew in Victoria. I could get into a whole new topic about Island officiating, but when is BC Soccer going to understand that Island officals are not used to seeing or participating at a high level of soccer let alone a BC Semi-Final. There is more to officiating than showing up in a three piece suite and inspecting the field. By the way they did a good job there were no holes in the net.

The guy in the middle of the park was horrendous, so he did a great job in the u-14 final but come on BC Soccer "apples and oranges".This guy was clearly overwhelmed by the occassion and situation. How he got to this game is not his fault but that of BC Soccer. I understand he was there being evaluated. Why the hell is there an official refereeing the BC Semis who needs to be evaluated. I am sure he worked hard at Ref school but maybe his part-time job at Butchart Gardens made him miss the chapter on "judgement". He had no feel for the game, for that matter he probably never played the game.

It was really too bad because the first 40 minutes of the game was well contested with both teams having excellent scoring chances. Smiley of Gilly, and Didar off Billy (I think). It was an obvious game plan of MF's to "run Didar", fair enough I thinks it's part of the game, but this is where the official has to do his job. 4 times in the first half Elliot and Izatt ran at Didar on crosses and got good contact. No cards. Then came the 40th minute when Elliot got a piece of Karm's elbow in his mouth and started to bleed (no foul called). Play continues and in comes another cross, and in comes Elliot, bang Didar's hit again, mele ensues with no serious contact and Elliot goes down like JFK. Pleeding to the referee that he's bleeding (looking for five and a match I guess)the ignorant ref saw blood, panicked and gave Didar a red for swating at Elliot's chest with an open hand. I don't know if Elliot was watching "Liar, Liar" the night before but it was one of the most classless things I have witnessed. I don't know if anyone told him to grow up but that was an embarassment to Metro-Ford Soccer. In the second half with 10 men the game was still closely contested, with Indo having a dangerous counter , and Metro Ford having a glorious opportunity in the 89th minute by hitting the cross bar. Nonetheless, 0-0 and going into OT. 12 minutes in Joe Billy and Prit Lidder get in a shoving match, the ref didn't see this, but the linelady from the other side flags the offical down and boom red-card to Indo player and nothing to Joe Billy. Two minute later another red card for abusive language, whilst swearing has been going on all game, and needless to say it is in OT and we are down two men, he gives me a red card for foul language. Great judgement call ref. In the second OT. we are three men down (Hey Gregor we were playing a 5-3-0)and about 7 minutes in when the ref gives a PK on a fifty -fifty challenge at the corner of the box (no threat to score), another splendid judgement call. After that MF scores two more goals in the last two minute of OT and game over. To an earlier person, yes we were proud of the way we played, and bad calls are a part of the game, but when the game is explicitly influenced by the officiating, it is very tough to swallow. BC Soccer has to do something about this. Metro-Ford should take a page out of Arsenel's book and agree to a rematch. It was a complete farce on Sunday afternoon in Victoria.

S. Sumra

PS Marty you're a Moron.

By gilly (142.58.122.13 - 142.58.122.13) on Monday, May 3, 1999 - 09:48 pm:

Martin Rose,

You are in the position of VMSL executive, how can you accuse us of crying racism? There is no where in any of the posts where we cry racism. I believe the person that brought this issue up was YOU. If you read our official protest to the BCSA, it has 8-10 points describing the incompetence of the official and this is the sole basis for our protest, not racism.

I feel for a person in your position within the league, this lacks a lot of professionalism. You are supposed to be unbiased, however, it appears that you have already come to your conclusion without even witnessing the match. How do you come to such a conclusion?

If your conclusion is based on heresy, then you need to get your FACTS correct before you make such serious accusations of racism.

Hopefully, the readers will realize that after your last couple posts, Sandman's PS is correct.

Really Fuming, Gilly.

By McManus (Admin) (209.53.56.44 - 209.53.56.44) on Monday, May 3, 1999 - 10:07 pm:

Gilly & Sandman,

Don't mince words... tell us how you really feel.

~Regs.

By Ryan O'Reilly (Burnsie) (216.66.136.31 - 216.66.136.31) on Monday, May 3, 1999 - 10:16 pm:

Gentlemen,

I am going to have to go against the norm here and say the game should be replayed. NO, I wasn't at the game but I don't see too many Metro Ford players disagreeing with what the Indo players are saying. I think everyone has been in a game like this before but not with as much on the line.

Sandy,Auj, Gilly,

Your points are all extremely valid. I am little surprised with Marty's take on the issue but he is apparently hearing this from Bill Azzi, who is associated with Metro Ford. I hope you get to replay the game.

One more question. Why the **** are the semi finals played in Victoria ? This is one decision that makes no sense Regsheem said no one was watching the game. The teams have to pay their way over to play in an empty stadium. Someone should get their act together and move the games to the Lower Mainland where they belong. When is the last time an Island team won the provincials? Question for thought.

P.S. Sandman, thanks for doing my taxes. How much do I owe you ? Give me a call and let me know. Cheers.

AS-SALAAMU ALAIKUM

By Auj (205.188.195.54 - 205.188.195.54) on Monday, May 3, 1999 - 11:12 pm:

Grapes De Jour

"Get over it Indo"

Grapes you make some excellent points. Soccer is a funny game... sometimes the ball bounces for you and sometimes it doesn't... that's the way it is. I have no problem with this. We were down three guys and we continued to play. We got on with it. On this day we were "shit out of luck" - fair enough.

What really pisses me off is that a ref could reward a half ass pk in a 2nd half overtime semi-final match. I had no problems playing with 8 Indo guys, I seriously believed we would win the game in penalty shots and that is what we were playing for. Metro Ford could not break us down, they had one chance off the bar in the first overtime and that was it.I am not taking anything away from Metro Ford , they are a strong side but even with a joker referee they did not deserve to win. This victory was given to them. Atleast, let them earn their victory. If Metro Ford broke us down and scored a "real" goal... I would have no complaints. Honestly, I would say that's the way the ball bounces. But in this game, there were no winners and no losers ...it was simply a circus.
So on this day was Metro Ford a better team than Indo? No.
Do they deserve to be in a BC Final? NO.
Should there be a replay...it would only be fair to both teams.

Marty,

At first glance when I read your posting I was really annoyed. The "race card" what a crock of shit. When I hear that bullshit, it really pisses me off. I don't know what you heard from Armour, but this is not about racism. This game was about "brutal officiating". ENOUGH SAID!
Marty, what I want to get across to you is that someone here needs to take resposibility. I do not blame this ref: BC soccer is at fault for allowing an inexperienced official ref this game. They will need to make a decision on whether or not there will be a replay. Let's hope this time they make the right decision.

By Drew Smiley (152.163.197.187 - 152.163.197.187) on Tuesday, May 4, 1999 - 12:51 am:

"1st half- Danny with a clear scoring opportunity taken down with no call ?" What? Who is writing this crap? I was 5 yards away from Keith's tackle, not even close to a foul let alone award a PK!

" It was an obvious game plan of MF's to "run Didar", fair enough I thinks it's part of the game, but this is where the official has to do his job. 4 times in the first half Elliot and Izatt ran at Didar on crosses and got good contact. No cards." No Cards, Should Keith and Elliot be carded for challenging on 50/50 balls in the box? If so I am playing in the wrong ****ing league. If anything there was way too much protection for the goalkeepers in the game! Why was Andy Veer of Metro Ford yellow carded for sliding and blocking the ball as Didar dribbled outside the Box? Wait I thought Metro Ford did not get any cards? What game was I watching!

All kidding aside with some of my personal thoughts above, Indo you guys have a great team and should be proud of what your club has accomplished this year. The way some of your supporters write it sounds as if this is the only provincial cup your team will ever play in. I am not going to agree or disagree with comments about the officiating but as players it is out of our control. And as far as protesting the game, A. was the Ref a die hard Metro Ford Fan? B. Did that hun spot I slipped him on that corner kick really help? C. Did he just not like East-Indians? I have never heard of a game protested and replayed because of bad officiating in any sport! Ref's screw up all the time as well as players! Unless one of the questions A, B, or C can be answered yes, I really don't see grounds for protest!

Any way how was Didar able to play Sunday after playing with the 86ers on Saturday? You should let us know or at least give Chris, Ian, and Alfredo a call? I am sure the Peg boys would not mind to learn the trick either for Dailly, Berg, and Thompson as well?

Cheers, and congratulations on a great season!

Smiles

By Gunner (207.194.30.24 - 207.194.30.24) on Tuesday, May 4, 1999 - 01:30 am:

I have been playing soccer in the lower mainland for nearly twenty years now. Not only have I played in the metro leagues here in B.C. (including youth and men's), but I have played at the higher levels, as a member of the u-17 and u-19 B.C. Teams, and U-17 and U-19 Canadian National Teams. As well, I was drafted by the Vancouver 86ers, unfortunately injury and surgery reframed from furthering my career in soccer.

I am concerned with the future of soccer here in B.C. and Canada, because, unfortunately, the incident that took place in Vicoria is not the first time it's happened. From other stories, and experiences I've endured myself, I could write a book about the B.C.S.A. and C.S.A. and its inadequacies. I hope people who are willing to make changes to Canadian soccer are reading this entry, because in the future no youth, adult, competitors, or fans should have to go through what happened in Victoria, let alone witness it.

First, the game...Metro-Ford vs. Indo Canadian

15 minutes into the match, one of the I.C. forwards gets free in the M.F. 18 yard box. He gets brought down, but there's no call. OK, maybe the ref doesn't want to call a penalty shot this early in a big game. After this, the I.C. goalie (Didar) is hit 3 or 4 times on seperate crosses into the box by M.F. players, which was a good tactic since Didar is I.C.'s star player. At this point, because of the repetative times the goalie was hit, any competent referee would warn the players not to run the goalie. He didn't have to pull out a card or anything, just a verbal warning could have been issued. Yet, this referee did nothing. By the way, these weren't "love taps." The I.C. goalie was actually flipped in the air on one hit and began supporting his back. Fans in the stands were concerned that he was injured.

Then, a M.F. player crosses the ball into the 18 yard box, and once again the I.C. goalie is nailed. The goalie then flails his arm out while turning around to confront the player who hit him, and his hand slaps the chest of the M.F. player. His hand didn't even touch the face of the M.F. player, and it wasn't a punch or a mugging, or anything like that. The M.F. player exaggerated the situation and is on the ground for a while.

Automatically, the referee pulls out the red card. No warning, no yellow, an automatic red. An absolutely horrendous call. Through all the games in the B.C.'s, there have been no calls made on these instances, let alone cards been given. If the goalie had punched the player, I would understand. If the goalie had spit on the player, I would understand. But a red card for that incident, undeniably was unjust. At the very best, it could've been a yellow on the I.C. goalie. That's what everybody in the stadium anticipated...The red schocked everyone.

So, now the second half begins with I.C. down to 10 men. Not only does the I.C. team resist all the offence the M.F. team could muster out, but I.C. also creates a few break-outs and chances. There were no goals through regulation time.

Now we get to the Second red card for I.C..
In the first overtime, as the play is going on a M.F. player is fouled, so they are awarded a free kick on the far side of the field, opposite the stands, about 35-40 yards out, near the sideline. While the players are getting in position for the free kick, an I.C. player and a M.F. player are inside the I.C. 18 yard line jockying for position. The I.C. player was positioned behind the M.F. player, both guy's were stationary. The M.F. player (Joe I believe his name was) was backing into the I.C. player and the I.C. player was holding his ground. The I.C. player then steps back and the M.F. player fell.

The lineswoman, who is standing at the side of the stands puts up her flag. She's at the halfway line, nearly 45 yards away. How can she even see what exactly happened. The referee comes over to her, he then goes up to the I.C. player and gives him a red card. For any fan of soccer to see this was disgusting. There's a linesman on the other side of the field, closer to the play and his opinion was that there was no foul. Yet, the lineswoman who is nearly 45 yards away, the furthest person away from the play other than the M.F. goalie, makes this call? What is she Superwoman ??? Does she have superhuman eyesite??
I guess the referee must've been Superman then !!
Both of them in referee outfits. Good disguises guy's.

Fans thought the I.C. player swore at the lineswoman, or something to that likeing, and therefore got the red. Only later was it known that the red was for a foul !!

Now we get to the second overtime. I.C. is basically defending the whole time and they decide to make a substitution. About 5 minutes after the sustitution there's a foul by a M.F. player on an I.C. player. By all accounts of the way the referee had called the game, and taking into consideration the 2 unjust red cards given to I.C., this foul deserved at the very least a yellow card for the M.F. player. Yet, the M.F. player got nothing and play went on.

Everybody on the field and in the stands is now yelling at the ref. Players from other teams watching the game were even in disbelief. 2 minutes later, another red card for I.C.
This one must have been for talking. If any I.C. player even made an attempt to breathe, they would've got a red.

Now I.C. was down to 8 men. How can any team be down to 8 men in a B.C. semi-final without committing a warranted foul ???

Well, after another horrific call by the B.C.S.A.
appointed ref, M.F. pressed forward. They pressured and unfortunately for M.F. they hit the cross-bar. But still, no goals. Then with time winding down, and the game surely headed for
PK's....well, I'm pretty sure you can guess what this great, experienced B.C.S.A. appointed referee did. Yup, he called a foul on I.C. in the penalty box. A M.F. player was trying to play the ball forward, he lost control of the ball, the ball is going past the end line, and an I.C. player slides for the ball, the players are side by side when they collide, and the PK is given. Yet, the ball was already past the end line.

M.F. scores on the PK and "game over." Basically, the I.C. players are deflated by the referee for the rest of the game.

I want to commend the I.C. team and their fans for the class the organization showed. They could've walked off the field after the third red card, even after the second, because of the most brutal refereeing...which is an understatement. Yet, they played. I also want to commend the M.F. players for being able to stick with their game and not falling to the ground in laughter at the way the ref was calling the game. It would've been extremely classy if the M.F. players had walked off the field with I.C. after the third red card.
Now that would've shown everybody "soccer class."
Something B.C.S.A doesn't know about.

I also want to commend the spectators from other teams (Vancouver Firefighters and others) and general fans who voiced their disgust in the refereeing, and towards the B.C.S.A. representatives who sat and did nothing. They didn't even come over to the teams and comment their opinions of the game or answer any questions the players had. All I saw was Jim Lamond and, his fellow so called representatives raise, his hand towards people acknowledging them that he had no comment. They then disappeared from the stadium immediately. Nice representation boys, because you didn't do B.C. soccer any good with those actions.

From everybody's perspective who viewed this exhibition of futility ( other than B.C. reps, the referee, and maybe M.F. just because they won on the scoresheet ) this game without question should be replayed.

B.C. Soccer's reputation and future lies in the decision they make. This should not even be a decision, it should be automatic to replay. If the B.C.S.A. does not replay this game with all the cards thrown out (yellows and reds) and competent officiating, then all the evidence shows that the outcome of this game was determined before any team even arrived in Victoria.

After viewing that refereeing, and watching the B.C.S.A. reps sit there and do nothing during or after the game, well then ....brutal, horrific, crap, unjust, all these words are an understatement of the refereeing, and also of the representing that the so called B.C.S.A reps did on sunday in Victoria.

I, along with others, am tired of letting B.C.S.A pick who should win and who should lose. It's time to make a lot of changes at the top of the B.C.S.A. and C.S.A.. It's time to let the players decide who should win and who should lose.

I could write a book about this right now, actually it feels as though I already did, but I'll wait until after the "Big Decision" to add additional information and thoughts.

B.C.S.A, if you have any sense of soccer, especially those representatives you sent to Victoria from whom you get your info, then you will replay the game between Metro-Ford and Indo-Canadian.

I am just a fan of the game who wanted to go see a good match-up, and I end up writing an analysis on the internet. Unbelievable.

Gunner

By Martin Rose (Martin) (207.194.146.4 - 207.194.146.4) on Tuesday, May 4, 1999 - 01:59 am:

Gilly et al,

If the protest does not include any mention of racism then I apologize profusely. Perhaps the person that called the BC Soccer office today to lodge a protest was not from the team but merely a fan or some other interested party. That person did tell tell BC Soccer that the protest was based on the referee being racially biased. This is also what was said to William Azzi by someone representing Indo. It is evident to me that you guys haven't heard about it or simply never shared that opinion. Obviously then what I have said does not apply to you.

Sandy, you really know how to hurt a guy.

Everyone,

The reason the semis were in Victoria (I just learned this evening) is that the VISL, VMSL and the FVSL rotate hosting the semis and finals each year. This year it was the VISL's turn to host the semis and the VMSL's turn to host the final.
Last year it was the VMSL's turn to host the semis and the FVSL's turn to host the final (Rotary). Based on this system I think it is probably the VISL's turn to host the final (R.A.P.) and the FVSL's turn to host the semis (Rotary) next year.

I think this is totally ridiculous and short sighted. leagues or even individual clubs should be allowed to apply to host these events as fundraisers and for promoting and fostering the game in their community. The BCSA should review the applicants a year ahead and make their decision on who has the best bid to host the events. This way if a bid comes from Victoria then their past record of poorly organized and promoted events would come into the decision making process. This way the financial incentive would make it imperative to get people out to the park. It would also be unlikely they would get to host again in the near future if they didn't run a good event. Certainly the trip to the island would have been worth it if there were people in the stands. I don't think that soccer people in Victoria don't appreciate VMSL teams (or MWSL for that matter) it's just that the games were not promoted in any way. They are barely promoted here in the lower mainland. B.C. Soccer proposed that the format be changed this season to guarantee two island teams and two mainland teams meet each other in the semis. The VMSL were able to prevent that this season but are still wary of the issue cropping up again. This is how they are currently running the youth provincial cup. From a competitive standpoint it's a disaster.

Regarding the MF vs Indo ref's qualifications. Any ref working a semifinal is automatically assessed. The refs were assessed at the Imperial Cup final and they will be assessed at the Province Cup Final on Sunday. They were also assessed at the Province Cup semis at Town Centre and at the Final at Rotary last year. So that isn't really an issue.

Apparently the ref, (I don't yet know his name) is FIFA level and regularly referees in the VISL. I don't think the intensity level is much different between the top VISL clubs and the VMSL Premier Division but the overall speed and skill level is (obviously). If FIFA decides he is good enough to get a FIFA badge then the BCSA can't be faulted too much for trusting that judgement. Rob Brown (which in a previous thread was singled out for being a top notch official) is in charge of assigning the refs for the Province Cup. You would think he would have used a ref he had confidence in.

But then maybe the ref just choked in the big game and you will never ever see a game replayed because of bad refereeing. If you could do that there would be chaos everywhere. Games would be replayed every week.

I would like to see some Metro-Ford players speak out about the referee here in the forum. The only thing that I have heard from Metro-Ford is second hand and that is that the referee was very strict. Not much to go on there.

Cheers,

Marty

By Martin Rose (Martin) (207.194.146.4 - 207.194.146.4) on Tuesday, May 4, 1999 - 02:10 am:

Drew,

Didar was able to play for the 86ers on Saturday and Indo on Sunday due to a FIFA rule allowing professional teams to sign amateur players on trial for 3 games without affecting his amateur status. After the trial period is over they will sign Didar to a pro contract (or the 86ers equivilent).

Marty

By fiji (207.102.64.213 - 207.102.64.213) on Tuesday, May 4, 1999 - 08:15 am:

bc soccer you've done it again!
the award for most class, goes to you.

**** you

By leitchy (216.66.143.106 - 216.66.143.106) on Tuesday, May 4, 1999 - 09:17 am:

O.K lads, here goes.I have played in the Premier league for 13 years, I have seen it all.This game on the Island was quite simply poorly officiated.That is the end of the story.I can't believe the drama that is unfolding on this forum.Firstly, there are people writing that Didar shouldn't have been sent off because of the importance of the game-rubbish!If that referee saw Didar's hand goe to Elliot's face,saw blood, all after the ball was out of play then that is a card I have seen happen 100 times before.It happens, thats football. I am not saying it was not harsh but it’s happened before.This season we played West Van,within 15 minutes Kevin Proctor,the ref sent off 2 West Van players, for nothing,.it was crazy.A senior,provincial FIFA ref.Guess what, They kept playing and beat us with 9 men..4 or 5 years ago in a quarter final Imperial Cup game vs Croatia , Metro Ford had 3 players thrown out in bizarre circumstances[I'm happy to report I wasn't one,so there Gregor]At the time I thought it was the most bias officiating ever. We played the entire 2nd half and injury time with 8 men and won on spotters.
Lads, my message here is get over it. When I here things like the greatest misjustice in BC soccer history I would like to hurl.When I hear 'football'people like Burnsie call for a replay I just cringe and wonder what they could be possibly thinking.If we got into replays for bad decisions then I would like to replay about a dozen big games I’ve played in over the last 10 years. Including provincial games in wich we’ve lost on a ridiculous penalty kick.This is football.I want people to know that as a 5 year captain of this 13 year Premier team I take great exception to calls that we planned to run Didar and that our players should be ashamed of that game.Trying to slander a quality player like Elliot Smith [arguably the strongest centeback in the league] shows a total lack of respect I was on that park for 120 minutes,for those writing that were not out there maybe get your facts straight. Eli, never said a word. As our captain I did, along with several other Indo and Wolves players. Who wouldn’t, he was bleeding like a stuck pig[no offence Eli]. I will not get into some of the things that some of the Indo players said to that referee [Gilley, at the penalty shot]. If it had been an experienced ref there would have been more reds to Indo.I applaud Indo's players that did battle to the end.Some did , some didn’t.As bad as anyone thought it was you should always play it through.I also would like to take the time to say that I am a fan of Indo’s style of football and love to see the passion of their club.I just want them to know that they are not the only victims of poor officiating and won't be the last.So this talk of replays, forget it.This talk of Metro Ford not being proud of what we accomplished,forget it, I have never been prouder.We will win the championship and based on our current side we deserve it.I give the top teams in this league a lot of respect-Firemen, Peg, Indo, Westside.Do not drag down Metro Ford just because of a poor official. Finally, to Auj,at least get the facts straight son.From the time that Didar got sent off the only question was when would the Wolves score.If they could have finished their dinner it would have been 4-0 at regulation.Not that it shouldn't have been against your nine.Marty, my final comment on the ref is that he was overwhelmed with the intensity of the game.I think his way of solving it was with cards-not good.However, I don't feel that at any time that this game was out of control.I have seen much worse officiating right here in the good old Premier league.I'm off now, oh by the way Reedy I hear there's a special at the Foggy Dew Pub, cheap pints and knuckle sandwiches.The reason I'm most dissapointed Peg won't win this year is I won't get to see another night at the fights like at recent big Peg wins.Celebrini vs Higgs in 96 was my favourite although I would love to see bantam weight action maybe Doddie v Fiorvento? Lets see you Peg lads next Sunday, I’m sure there’ll be a few pints after that one.

By Gregor Young (Gregor) (209.52.76.122 - 209.52.76.122) on Tuesday, May 4, 1999 - 09:28 am:

As I wasn't there I'm hesitant to comment but despite how dreadful the reffing sounds, there is no way in hell BC Soccer will replay that game. They have an obligation to back their refs and if they don't, the refs will let them have it worse than any player here has so far.

I'm not saying this is right, I'm just saying that's reality.

By Mr. Hockey Fan (207.194.19.91 - 207.194.19.91) on Tuesday, May 4, 1999 - 04:02 pm:

To all teams (except Indo, Sikh Temple FC, and Khalsa): Be honest!! No one wants to lose to a bunch of hindu's on the football pitch! The exceptions are on the cricket and field hockey pitches. Face it, our brothers in England, and Scotland would have more to laugh about Canadian Soccer if they found out what those hindu's (Indo-canadian FC) accomplished this season.

Those lads are young. They'll be around for awhile from the looks of it! Hats off to Indo. Things have changed. I hope the Fijians would play soccer in the winter. It's not as cold as you guys think! Maro, Maro!! Peace in the East!!

Hey, how 'bout those Avalanche !!!

Mr.Hockey Fan

By fiji 4 life (216.66.136.182 - 216.66.136.182) on Tuesday, May 4, 1999 - 05:36 pm:

go **** yourself hockey queer. intimated cuz the brothers can play ball huh..typical of the honkys to fell that way just wait til shit hits the fan and the fiji and india brothers end up on top where they belong.. avalanche suck shit ..too bad they gonna go down 4 straight to the wings

By raujla (205.188.198.57 - 205.188.198.57) on Tuesday, May 4, 1999 - 05:40 pm:

Mr.Hockey Fan

By the sounds of it you are the biggest piece of shit to ever write on the forum. Have some guts and let us know who you are!!!!

Leitchy

This game will never be replayed. I at no time will ever slag elliot for what he did on the park - it's all part of the game. In regards to giving my head a shake about you guys scoring four goals, I'm not really sure what game you were playing. Actually..... were you playing??

Martin

Thanks for clarifying things. I still think someone in your position has to be very careful about comments like the one you made. Making generalizations is very dangerous.

Anyways, life goes on

raujla

By Bubba Big'un (Chris) (204.244.19.208 - 204.244.19.208) on Tuesday, May 4, 1999 - 06:58 pm:

Indo,

3reds... Pk in double OT.
MF gets a yellow. Hard to think you were not screwed unless your lads were completely losing their heads. Most big games of any sport have some balance on the final stat sheet.

However, Gregor is right. There is no way in Hell they will replay this game. As in most sports, if the ref shits the bed, they give him a rap on the knuckles in private when a fiasco like this follows the game. They hate the bruhaha, but they can't let the integrity of the officials come under the gun. It sets a bad precedent. Unfortunately, the refs know this, and will continue to call such travesties.

Hard lines. Good luck next year.

Dutch

By Schillinger (Reedy) (216.66.137.38 - 216.66.137.38) on Tuesday, May 4, 1999 - 07:16 pm:

Leitchy,

Luckily I happened to see my name pop up as I was scrolling right by your post. You almost snuck it in. After I took the time to read the longest paragraph in the history of the forum, I came to a couple of conclusions:

1). The next time I'm having trouble sleeping at night I'll just take another look at your post. BORING. Some nice ideas, but let's liven it up a bit, son.

2). You've been playing football a looooooong time, but did you ever consider dabbling in North American football? Bellies are welcomed with open arms in this sport.

3). Your obsession with the Pegasus club is at an all-time high. Have you got the entire set of Peg player collectible cards yet? Hang on to that Reedy rookie card if your smart.

Good luck on Sunday, lad.

By splash (216.66.137.174 - 216.66.137.174) on Tuesday, May 4, 1999 - 07:39 pm:

regs,

briliant job with the site. we should have created a controversy like this long time ago. you should think about advertising.

mr.hockey,
i play for peg, i do not have any brothers in England or Scotland.

you've created quite a name for yourself on this site. have you always been such a racist, or did you just acquire that trait hiding behind your keyboard?

indo boys,

nobody likes to lose, i'm still recovering from our loss to firemen, however, replaying this game would set a dangerous precedent.

a majority of people you talk to, who are involved in premier soccer, will tell you that the officiating is sub par.

this has been going on for years now. i would have to agree with leetchy, all of us have at one time or another witnessed a shocking performance by a ref.

you know what would be great: if a bc soccer official gave their point of view of the match, after the status of the game is concluded. dont hold your breath for that perspective!

the sooner you realize that bc soccer does not give a shit about what indo, or any other team thinks, the quicker you will be able to move on and just play the game.

someday down the road you guys will be on the winning end of a shocking decision, its just the way it is.

By Mr. Hockey fan (137.82.195.58 - 137.82.195.58) on Tuesday, May 4, 1999 - 07:52 pm:

RAujla

Hey buddy, you misunderstood my opinion. I'm just stating that there must be many players in the VMSL who feel superior to the East Indians and Fijians in principle just because they or their parents come from strong soccer playing countries. India and Fiji are not internationally reknowned for their soccer players. However, India does produce the top cricket and field hockey players in the world. Fiji has superb rugby players. Just a couple of months ago they thrashed a respectful New Zealand side in a game I enjoyed on the tele. There was no racism intended in my statement. Don't read the lines, read between them my friend.

Avs over the Wings in 6 Mr. Fiji.

Mr. Hockey Fan

By SBahia (137.82.195.58 - 137.82.195.58) on Tuesday, May 4, 1999 - 09:03 pm:

Mr. Hockey:

You're racist.

Everyone else:

I'm an Indo player (sidelined due to injury) I was at the Inter vs. Indo game a couple of weeks ago. A BC soccer rep, who happened to be there, came over to our sideline to find out who our coach was. Our sideline (including our coach who had, moments ago, been red carded for mouthing off the ref),were very verbally abusive towards two of the officials. I, along with a number of other Indo fans, told the BC Soccer Rep where to go upon his seemingly arrogant questioning, after all we were only fans, what could he do to us.

Jokes were made and we had a big laugh. He looked very pissed off. He was present as one of the 4 reps on hand in Victoria. After the second red card I began to get feelings along with others that the game may well have been fixed by the BC reps. We'll never know will we. Just food for thought. The rep, with protection from the Victoria police, looked quite happy with the result.

To all my Indo buddies. I can't wait to put on the uniform again and be part of future successful seasons in the league. It was hard watching from the sideline. It's been a long journey from Div. 3. But watching the boys succeed at this level was well worth all the years we played crummy beer leaguers.

Auj. I agree with your statements. Racism can't stop teams from winning. Bad refereeing can do that and that's what happened on Sunday. See ya at South Arm gym!

Gilly. BBC baby!! Oh that volley!!....your still my pick for man of the match.

Sandy. Love ya!!

Good luck to Peg and Firemen.

By Ryan O'Reilly (Burnsie) (216.66.133.1 - 216.66.133.1) on Tuesday, May 4, 1999 - 10:17 pm:

Leitchy,

In hind sight, I made a mistake. I like the Indo guys but I made a mistake saying I hope they get a replay. If it is strictly poor officiating then the game can't be replayed because many teams in previous rounds will cry injustice. Your comment was well taken. Am I still a ' soccer' guy for admitting my mistake. I hope so.

Good luck in the final, Leitchy, and I will see you at the beer garden at the Nations Cup.

Cheers

Burnsie

By Ryan O'Reilly (Burnsie) (216.66.133.1 - 216.66.133.1) on Tuesday, May 4, 1999 - 10:31 pm:

McManus,

You're right. It is almost time to shut the forum down when you get dickheads like Mr.Fiji and company.

By fiji 4 life (216.66.139.141 - 216.66.139.141) on Wednesday, May 5, 1999 - 12:12 am:

Mc Manus

please forgive me for my abrasive language, just that i didn't think it was apporiate for Mr. hockey there to use the word hindu in his post.

By Martin Rose (Martin) (159.33.2.50 - 159.33.2.50) on Wednesday, May 5, 1999 - 09:27 am:

Indo-Canadians appeal update:

The appeal was lodged at the BCSA office on Monday with the $100 deposit by Team Manager Armar Grewal well within the required 48 hours. No reason for the appeal was given on the note accompanying the deposit, just that the reasons would be forthcoming the next day. (Although three people at the BCSA office confirm that he said (just verbally) that the protest was based on the referee was racially biased.

The full protest documentation was then given to the BCSA yesterday (Tuesday) and as Gilly said it contained "8-10 points describing the incompetence of the official" and in no way mentioned racism.

As of this morning (Wednesday) at 9am the referee's report for the game has not yet been submitted. As soon as it enters the office the BCSA Director handling the protest (George Graveson) will be notified and the wheels should start turning. I would guess a decision will be made quite quickly (perhaps the same day). I'm certain the referree has been contacted to speed up matters.

I do not know exactly what Indo's points were in the official protest. Perhaps Gilly can post them? I don't know why they should remain behind closed doors. I'm still quite interested in the actual wording because of Gilly's first post on the subject stating:

"The game is officially under protest. I will not comment on the major underlining issues that took place until after the protest. However, the BCSA has to make a decision, the right decision, to replay the match sometime this week to see which TEAM is deserving of the opportunity to play in the provincial final. Failure to do so, will result in the public scrutinization of the BCSA and its officials and will change how soccer in BC is played forever."

Gilly please elaborate on this quote. Only because it is important that everyone understand the issues you and your team are trying to address regarding the way the game is played and run. The language suggests that it is far more than simply a poorly reffed game.

There is quite a bit of behind the scenes scrambling regarding the direction that the BCSA is taking (or lack there of) and recruiting is being done to find appropriate people to run for BSCA Directors at the June AGM. I would like to learn more about what our clubs need so that I can give considered opinions in discussions among the VMSL executive regarding who we should support and oppose as a BCSA director.

Anyone wishing to email me on this subject can do so at: editor@bcsoccerweb.com

Cheers,

Marty

By FIREMAN (207.102.216.6 - 207.102.216.6) on Wednesday, May 5, 1999 - 07:53 pm:

WHAT I SAW IN VICTORIA SUNDAY WAS A BLATANT ACT OF DISCRIMINATION.PLAIN AND SIMPLE.I KNOW PEOPLE WILL SAY "THATS A EXCUSE".BUT SPEAKING FROM SOMEONE WHO IS A NON-INDOCANADIAN AND A PLAYER FOR THE FIREMAN,I AM DISGUSTED.GRANTED WE TAKE ANY BREAKS THAT COME OUR WAY IN THIS SPORT,BUT THESE ARE THE TIMES YOU THINK WERE DO WE PLACE OUR PRIORITIES.DO WE PLACE THEM ON JUST WINNING OR DO WE PLACE THEM ON WINNING WITH A SHRED OF DIGNITY.I AM NOT INSULTING ANY M.F. PLAYERS,BUT GUYS YOU DIDN'T WIN THIS ONE,THE REFS ALONG WITH POSSIBLY A LITTLE PUSH FROM A FEW BCSA OFFICIALS WON THIS ONE FOR YOU.I'VE KNOWN A FEW OF YOU GUYS OVER THE YEARS AND I KNOW YOU GUYS CAN'T BE PLEASED.UNFORTUNATLEY,I KNOW THE CHANCES OF ANY M.F.PLAYERS OR MANAGEMENT PUBLICLY STATING THAT THE REF ERRED IN HIS JOB IS UNLIKELY.WHOEVER WE PLAY IN THE CHAMPIONSHIP WE WILL BEAT,BUT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN NICE TO PLAY A TEAM THAT EARNED THE RIGHT WITH A REAL SEMI-FINAL MATCH WITH REAL REFS.INDO YOU ARE RIGHT THIS GAME WAS FIXED,NO ONE INCLUDING SOME OF MY DEAREST FRIENDS AND EVEN MY FATHER WANT'S INDO-CANADIANS REPRESENTING B.C ITS TRAGIC BUT TRUE.I OBVIOUSLY HAVE NO "REAL" PROOF TO BACK THIS UP,BUT I HAVE SOMETHING THAT NEVER LIES AND THAT IS YOURS EYES AND HEART.BCSA I PRAY FOR THE SAKE OF CANADIAN SOCCER THAT NO WRONG DOINGS WERE COMMITED HERE.TO THE REFS PLEASE QUIT THIS PROFFESION,A FEW BUCKS AND BROWNIE POINTS ARE NOT WORTH RUINING A KIDS LOVE AND RESPECT FOR THIS GAME.RACISM IS SUCH A HARSH WORD BUT IT CAN APPEAR IN MANY FORMS,SADLY (AND I PRAY I AM WRONG)I BELIEVE IT IS LURKING IN THE HIERARCHY OF BCSA.GOOD LUCK NEXT YEAR INDO!! WE WOULD HAVE LOVED TO DO BATTLE WITH YOU LOT AND GOD KNOWS YOU GUYS DESERVED TO BE THERE.METRO-FORD YOU GUYS ARE TOAST.BCSA IT IS TIME FOR AN INVESTIGATION IN THIS MATTER. FIREMAN #1

By lad (207.102.216.6 - 207.102.216.6) on Wednesday, May 5, 1999 - 08:15 pm:

kkk+hitler=bcsa

By McManus (Admin) (209.53.56.44 - 209.53.56.44) on Wednesday, May 5, 1999 - 08:24 pm:

FIREMAN + lad = ****edinthehead

By Gregor Young (Gregor) (209.52.76.107 - 209.52.76.107) on Wednesday, May 5, 1999 - 08:39 pm:

Why is it that the people with the strongest opinions and harshest words are the ones least likely to put their real names to what they're saying?

Without any accountability you have no credibility at all.

FIREMAN. For all we know you're a twelve year old girl purporting to be a player on Firemen.

lad (who has the same IP numbers as FIREMAN). Does that make you feel wise and oh-so-cool to throw anonymous insults around?

If you've got something to say, have the balls to say who you are, what you think and why. Otherwise, go back to crank calls and scribbling on washroom walls.

For those who tune in here for the content, let's just remember that hit and run pricks like Mr. Hockey thrive on spending 20 hours a day on the Net trying to get a rise out of people with their insults. They return if they get that rise. They go somewhere else if they don't.

By McManus (Admin) (209.53.56.44 - 209.53.56.44) on Wednesday, May 5, 1999 - 08:56 pm:

For those that think Mr. Hockey is a racist, may I direct your attention to a post above by someone named SBahia... Indo regulars should speak up now and tell me if this clown really exists 'cause he's a shit disturber and I'll make sure he really remembers next year's season with a pair of sixes embedded in his thigh... and I'm no racist.

~Regs.

By Bubba Big'un (Chris) (204.244.19.153 - 204.244.19.153) on Wednesday, May 5, 1999 - 09:57 pm:

Gregor,

Well said!

C'mon lads. Stop hiding and post your "real" identity or get the **** out. You have nothing to offer here if you are lurking in the swamp water with mrhockey. Did I say swamp? Sorry... I meant sewer.

Dutch

By lad (207.194.20.9 - 207.194.20.9) on Wednesday, May 5, 1999 - 10:50 pm:

remarks made on hitler+kkk=bcsa,UNCALLED for,just made out of anger.please accept apology.

By Gunner (209.53.103.14 - 209.53.103.14) on Wednesday, May 5, 1999 - 11:00 pm:

Regs,

Didn't think you'd get that emotional !!!
Actually, I don't know how much work you have to put into the forums, so my apologies for writing my reply in there. I'm sure lou sends his apologies as well.
Guess I don't have to pay the $10 now eh :)
By the way, I read the article by SBahia, I don't understand, why is he/she a shit disturber?

Gregor,
Well said lad.

P.S. Liverpool lads come through to screw up
Man. U :)

By Ryan O'Reilly (Burnsie) (216.66.135.161 - 216.66.135.161) on Wednesday, May 5, 1999 - 11:09 pm:

Lad,

Forget the ****ing apology and show yourself.

McManus,
I know it might be a pain in the ass for you but is it possible for you to delete these ****ing idiots who will not identify themselves. As others have stated, credibility might come with identification.

Look forward to Saturday.

AS-SALAAMU ALAIKUM

By McManus (Admin) (209.53.56.44 - 209.53.56.44) on Thursday, May 6, 1999 - 06:31 am:

SBAHIA = Mr. Hockey Fan...

Does everyone now see my point? SBAHIA is a ****ing loser.

~Regs.

By Martin Rose (Martin) (207.194.147.16 - 207.194.147.16) on Thursday, May 6, 1999 - 12:47 pm:

Indo-Canadians Protest Update... It's over...or is it?

Indo-Canadians protest of the semifinal against Metro-Ford Wolves has been denied by the B.C. Soccer Association. BCSA Director George Graveson told me that the referee's judgement regarding the application of the laws of the game is not a protestable offense. Contrary to what I was led to believe earlier the referee was not FIFA level. Simon Fern is a National level referee and a FIFA level linesman. The Province Cup Final will now go ahead as scheduled.

When I was at the BCSA office I overheard that Indo (Armar, I believe) phoned and told the person at the front desk that a further appeal willl be made to the CSA (another $250 deposit, which they also lose if they lose the appeal). Regardless of the CSA appeal the game goes ahead with Firefighters and Metro-Ford on Sunday. I suppose if the CSA found in Indo's favour at a later date both the semifinal and final would have to be replayed. But based on the reason given for the BCSA ruling I don't see Indo winning an appeal at the CSA either.

Marty

By Gregor Young (Gregor) (207.194.147.49 - 207.194.147.49) on Thursday, May 6, 1999 - 04:51 pm:

You know I just happen to be having a sale on appeals right now, so, if Indo are interested...

For $99.99 I'll give you two minutes of my time (twice what the CSA will give you), bring in someone who knows almost nothing about competitive soccer (again, twice what the CSA can bring to the table) to sneer at you while you make your presentation and let you keep the gavel he bangs after he declares your appeal groundless and frivolous.

By SBahia (137.82.195.52 - 137.82.195.52) on Thursday, May 6, 1999 - 05:12 pm:

McManus

I was sucked into my co-worker's childish game. He's a highly intelligent youth development worker who would make for an excellent lawyer (He's having a laugh right now.)

For myself, this is no joke. You've slandered me with the "SBahia = Mr.Hockey Fan" This also slanders my team. maybe I'm over-reacting. My colleague, succeeded in pushing some buttons. He, along with yourself, seem to have more time than I do for the internet. I guess the soap opera that's ensued in this forum will continue.....count me out!

This is my simple opinion: there was no racism, just bad officiating at the game. I know too many fellow East Indians who have played at the highest of levels in Canadian Soccer. We have maybe 5 or 6 on our team currently who have participated in the provincial and national programs. My brother has played for BC, two of my cousins have represented Canada, and my father has represented Canada in field hockey (Mr.Hockey jokes around with me about the field hockey)....enough said. There's no hard feelings.

I like to aplogize to Mr. Jim Lamond who was at the game. He received a wicked tongue lashing from fans. Jim is from Richmond and has always been a kind soccer person. Sorry Jim, emotions were flying high.

Marty. Racism Card?.....This isn't the O.J. trial buddy.

PS. McManus, I've been through 4 knee injuries, dozens of ankle sprains, one knee operation, one broken foot, a broken arm, and a broken collar bone. Your pair of sixes aren't going to end it all!

By Mr. Hockey Fan (137.82.195.52 - 137.82.195.52) on Thursday, May 6, 1999 - 05:29 pm:

Suke's a swell guy. McManus take it easy on him.

By the way, McManus or should I call you Mr. forum referee, they're offering "Anger Management" classes at the Y. You should consider joining!

By McManus (Admin) (209.53.56.44 - 209.53.56.44) on Thursday, May 6, 1999 - 05:43 pm:

SBahia/Mr. Hockey,

I stand by my words and post. You'll notice that I'm not hiding anywhere. I've asked other Indo players to confirm you are who you say you are and have heard nothing, zilch, nada.

Slander? hehehe... yeah, OK, if you say so. Who was it that insinuated that BC Soccer fixed the semifinal game in question?... that would be you, would it not?

As for calling me "Mr forum referee", yes you may call me that. As far as I'm concerned, this whole mess has only Indo as an organization to blame...

You have convinced me that the only way to stop this is to reformat the forum and require people to have a proper account to post. Look for the changes soon. The "Open" forum has died... everyone may thank you for it.

~Regs.

PS. Marty has said that someone in Indo's organization used the "race card"... the fact that Indo is carrying on with further appeals is not helping your 'cause'.

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