By Regs (Admin) on Wednesday, February 17, 1999 - 12:22 pm:


Anyone have any thoughts on why the Vancouver media has seemed to have turned its nose at senior soccer the last couple of years ?

I don't think Firemen even got a mention regarding winning the BC's last year even in the Province which I believe sponsors the competition.

Somebody should let these guys know about us... I mean, Tony Gallager could have a field day with our leagues exploits the last few years.

~Regs.



By toze on Wednesday, February 17, 1999 - 01:30 pm:


Heres just a couple ideas on the whole media thing. The Sports reporters are too busy pretending to be big time that they've forgotten about grass roots sports aka local stuff. They'd rather re-hash another Bure or Keenan story because it makes them feel important or look good on a resume tape they plan to send to ESPN. Journalists are supposed to find stories, unique stories that nobody else has...this is clearly lost on the local media as they try to out do each other seeing who can suck Messier's **** the longest. Probably the single biggest factor is the fact that the sports reporters know nothing about soccer. I've worked in several newsrooms in town and talking to the sports guys, it's always the same cliche...soccer is boring, they just don't understand the game so why risk their credibility...got to go but I'll be back on this one
Toze



By SYSA/SFC (Roy) on Thursday, February 18, 1999 - 09:51 am:


Toze
The vancouver Media or imitations such as gallegher and McRae are bad enough but local papers especially in Surrey are more interested in trying to attain the bigs than covering what's happening in the area. Marty Rose gives Surrey teams better coverage than the Surrey Now or the Surrey Leader. Without the BC SoccerWeb it would be pretty bare soccer news. The North Shore News has run more press on Pegasus coming to Surrey than these two papers. Wait till they want advertising...



By Milan @ Croatia SC (209.53.22.112 - 209.53.22.112) on Saturday, February 20, 1999 - 09:58 am:


Forum -

I was reading The Vancouver Sun this morning and I chuckled when I realized that their Sports section has a local column for Boxing (Graham Houston) but nothing for Soccer.

Why is that? Maybe the Sports Editor likes Boxing better than Soccer? Or, maybe Boxing just puts pressure on the media for coverage?

I like Boxing and I don't want to take anything away from it, but there is no reason why Boxing should have their own local column in a big paper and not Soccer. It doesn't make sense when you consider how many readers are soccer enthusiasts and how many are boxing enthusiasts.

I think that the clubs should form an initiative to pressure media to cover soccer. For example, we could form a proposal and offer them Alan Douglas who I think would do a good job (he would just have to keep doing what he's already doing) or they can find their own guy (Dan Stinson used to do a decent job in the 80's).

Why not even approach radio? or even TV? Perhaps the media just need to have a seed planted in their head and it could take off.

What do you think?

ml



By Chocolate Abdul-Regsheem (Admin) (209.53.4.104 - 209.53.4.104) on Saturday, March 13, 1999 - 02:44 pm:


Was just watching the end of the US vs. Mexico match... Maybe it's a good thing that soccer isn't in the media as much if the quality of commentating in this match is an indication of what's to come... "MARCH MADNESS !!!!... NOW THIS IS MARCH MADNESS !!!!"... I couldn't believe my ears ;-)

Did anyone notice who the ref was ? ... I couldn't believe my eyes ! More importantly, did anyone catch near the end when this anonymous referee looked at a player and "threatened" to pull out a card as if to say "Do you want one?" ? Others take note that this is exactly what I was talking about early in the forum... It was almost embarrassing.

~Regs



By Martin Rose (Martin) (207.194.147.98 - 207.194.147.98) on Saturday, March 13, 1999 - 11:22 pm:


Regs,

I heard a story the other day about Rene Parra (the ref you are referring to above)

He was supposed to conduct a refereeing clinic and it was his responsibility to bring the equipment. He neglected to bring anything and the exasperated organizer got mad at him. His reply to her was (in best quasi spanish accent) "I AM RENE! I BROUGHT RENE!!"

Cheers,

Marty



By Chocolate Mammoud-AkShepallah (Imafatbastard) (209.52.121.48 - 209.52.121.48) on Saturday, March 13, 1999 - 11:55 pm:


I am tosspot dougl-ASS, I am tosspot dougl-ASS



By Milan @ Croatia SC (209.53.22.112 - 209.53.22.112) on Sunday, March 14, 1999 - 09:32 am:


Forum -

In case anybody is curious, The Province printed a story about officials this morning. I typed it out for all of you.

** Headline:
Blow the whistle on violence thugs, say officials

** Caption:
Ron Ward was punched and trampled. Carlos Morzan had to call the RCMP to get to his car safely. They and other referees and umpires have had enough of the growing violence being directed at them by amateur athletes

Paul Chapman, Sports Reporter
The Province

** Photo caption:
Gerry Kahrmann, The Province / Soccer referee Ron Ward is used to a certain measure of dissent during games, but nothing like the violent attack he experienced during a game last November.

**Full story:

Kill the ref.

That familiar sideline slur now has a chilling ring on the playing fields of B.C.

Referees, umpires and all sorts of recreational officials find themselves in the line of fire.

Call it symptomatic of a rotting society or a trickle-down of the arrogance and lawbreaking in professional sports, but to be an official in amateur sports today is to put your wellbeing at risk.

It's by no means an epidemic, but incidents are occurring with alarming frequency.

Several intense encounters have smudged the name of sports on soccer fields, basketball courts and ice rinks around B.C. And though the actual numbers are not that high, it's the severity of the attacks that has officials scratching their heads.

For Ron Ward, the point was driven home by a set of metal cleats boring into his back as he swallowed a mouthful of dirt. Physically, he was numb. Mentally, he was in a whirlwind of confusion and shock.

The cleats in his back were the follow-up to a vicious haymaker that had put the referee face-down on the soccer pitch, surrounded by a pack of livid players. Ward had just handed out a red card, ejecting a player, before being sucker-punched.

"I wasn't scared. By the time it happened, I was on the ground," said Ward. "I was down and they were booting me. If the other team hadn't stepped in, I don't know what would have happened."

Ward was refereeing a Vancouver Metro Soccer League game between AC Richmond and Deep Cove Royals in November when he was attacked.

Some insiders, who would speak only off the record, said abuse is exacerbated by poor officiating. But the once sacred rule, that regardless of the circumstance -- no matter how horrid the call -- you don't touch an official, is gone. Gone with it is the security of those who volunteer to make recreational sports possible.

The horror didn't stop there for Ward. His 26-year-old son was assaulted in January while calling another metro league game.

"The severity and pure hostility of some of the incidents is what's most disturbing and particularly nasty," said Larry Diehl, president of the B.C. Soccer Association.

"We're even seeing more verbal abuse in the women's game. There are more women playing more competitively, at a higher skill level, so we are seeing more [red and yellow] cards in the women's side as well."

Carlos Morzan would agree. Morzan, a lifelong player who took up refereeing eight years ago, has come under fire twice this season. The first time was in September, with the same AC Richmond team that assaulted Ward.

Morzan abandoned a game after he feared it would turn into a brawl. He was swarmed by Richmond players, punched, pushed and had to call the RCMP to get safely to his car.

In January, Morzan was caught in a similar incident with a Metro team called Bosna. He was threatened, pushed and told, "We're going to follow you home and kill you."

"I know every trick in the book because I've played all my life," Morzan, 45, said. "Guys now just want to win, win, win. It's not about respect or sportsmanship anymore É Guys want to hurt other players and if the referee steps in, they turn on him.

"I'm from South America, where it's a whole different game. If they want to kill you, they'll kill you. It shouldn't be that way here."

But it's getting that way.

And soccer isn't the only offender. So far this season, the B.C. Amateur Hockey Association has recorded 18 incidents where a player has pushed an official, 27 where an official has been struck and eight where an official was threatened. Last season, those numbers were 27, 39 and 31 respectively.

"There's no question, there's an increasing lack of respect for officials," said Keith Johnson, a referee and lower mainland co-ordinator for amateur hockey. "Whether it's because of society or what's happening in pro sports, I don't know. I do know people are getting more carried away in their emotions. It's driving a lot of younger officials from the game."

Johnson has been threatened many times -- once by a player in the parking lot who said he was going to follow him home. He called the police, and nothing happened.

A referee was assaulted in the parking lot of 8 Rinks in Burnaby two weeks ago by a player he'd thrown out of the game.

The incident, along with all the others, is being investigated by the association, which can barely keep up with all the incidents of abuse.

"I reffed for 30 years and it was never like it is now," said Dave Murray, head of officiating for B.C. amateur hockey. "Whether it's the impact of the NHL or what, I don't know. But I know the parental pressure is unbelievable."

Murray said a chain reaction of overreaction is what's causing many of the problems. The parents want their kids to make the NHL and get angry when the coach isn't doing the right things to get scouts to see their kids play at their best. The coaches feel the pressure and take it out on the refs. When the players see the coach having a go at the authority figure, it's fair game for them, too.

The BCAHA treats each case of abuse of officials separately, but penalties are severe -- suspensions of up to a year or longer.

The Vancouver Metro Soccer League has banished AC Richmond and its players from the league, and is looking to make an example out of any future misconduct.

"It's like a line has been crossed," said Metro president Bill Azzi. "It used to be player vs. player É but now there's an element of player vs. ref. We can't have it.

"No matter how bad the officiating is, or how wrong a call may be, there is never any excuse to assault a referee. Ever."



By Toze (209.17.167.71 - 209.17.167.71) on Sunday, March 14, 1999 - 09:50 am:


Looks like Paul Chapman reads the Vancouver Courier.
A story almost identical to the Province story appeared in a mid February issue. The Courier story has more balls as they go into the ethnic thing where teams cry racism everytime a ref makes a call against them. The Ron Ward incident in particular receives even more attention. AC Richmond are an Indo Canadian team and claim Ward used a racial remark which sparked the attack. Not that it justifies it in any way shape or form. Also the team in the story was Deep Cove Alumni, not Deep Cove Royals.

Toze



By Martin Rose (Martin) (207.194.146.38 - 207.194.146.38) on Sunday, March 14, 1999 - 12:07 pm:


Milan, is that Province story on-line... I didn't see it.

Also if anyone has a copy of that Courier story could they let me know and fax it to me at 662-6106. I've been looking all over the place for it.

Yes a large component in the AC Richmond situation was allegations of racism. However this has really only been the case with them. Other ethnically based teams have not pursued this issue with the league. I understand the Indo-Canadians have used this line in their dealings with the Richmond Parks Board. What we discovered in researching the AC Richmond case was that most East Indian people that emigrated (or their parents) directly from India do not perceive much racism. However in AC Richmond's case most of the players where actually born or raised in England before moving to B.C. For some reason they have a racism "chip on their shoulder" that the others (Sikh Temple for one) don't have. Their reaction to everything was to scream "racism". They knew that this would immediately add a new dimension to the problem and cast doubt on the referee's testimony.

I know that Paul Ward has encountered problems with another "ethnic" team, Shaheen FC. But this was more implied by the team than stately directly. Shaheen also specifically said that Ron Ward did a perfectly good job when refereeing their game but for some reason (I wasn't there of course) thought Paul Ward was sticking it to them. When they perceive referee bias (which is perceived by all teams at some point) they scream racism.

But of course Paul Ward was brutal when he refereed my team against Norvan Saints. My teammates immediately perceived a North Shore bias as Ward appeared to know many of the Norvan Saints players. Of course he just had a shitty day in shitty conditions (cold and raining heavily on an almost unplayable gravel pitch) just like any player would (and did).

I actually got quite livid at Carlos Morzan myself for not adding any extra time in our game against CA Juventus. A spitting incident occurred with about 3 minutes left with our team pressing for an equalizer. He lectured the CA Juventus player for 2 minutes. He then called the second half over at exactly 45 minutes. So he basically rewarded CA Juventus for spitting on our player.
Not mention all of the other legitimate stoppages that occurred during that half. Of course my actions were limited to approaching after the game and yelling "Why was there no stoppage time!"
The thought of striking him never entered my mind.
Imagine the reaction of a team he did that to in a Cup semifinal or something. I don't think that the problem he had with Bosna or AC Richmond really had anything to do with racism.

Any other thoughts,

Marty



By Milan @ Croatia SC (209.53.22.112 - 209.53.22.112) on Sunday, March 14, 1999 - 12:39 pm:


Marty -

The story is not on-line to the public but I have secured access to the whole paper on-line so I just scooped the story for this Forum. (I didn't really type it out :)

I agree completely that Refs are getting mistreated and everybody should be concerned because the situation is getting worse.

I particularely don't like to see it in Pro sports especially when its glorified. Although I am a big fan of the WWF, I really don't like when the wrestlers start beating the Refs. There is not doubt that this influences the younger (and probably some older) viewers.

For next season, our club is seriously considering harsh inner disciplinary actions against players who abuse the Refs. This type of abuse is a sign of no-class and it jeapordizes the reputation of the whole club with the Ref Association.

One idea was too fine the player and give the money to the victimized Ref as compensation... but that just wouldn't look good. :)

ml



By Milan @ Croatia SC (209.53.22.112 - 209.53.22.112) on Sunday, March 14, 1999 - 12:40 pm:


PS: Marty, thanks for that Rene story, it cracked me up. I think it will be vintage!



By Gregor Young (Gregor) (207.194.147.92 - 207.194.147.92) on Sunday, March 14, 1999 - 05:20 pm:


Marty,

I've got a copy of the Courier article. I'll fax it to you tomorrow if I can remember.

My brother in law is the coach of the Deep Cove team AC Rmd was playing. The story is very similar to how he described it.

He has also said the ref has a rep as being a know it all who doesn't mind talking back to players. No excuse at all for what AC did of course.



By Chocolate Abdul-Regsheem (Admin) (209.53.4.104 - 209.53.4.104) on Sunday, March 14, 1999 - 06:15 pm:


Actually we were talking about this Ward ref today and everyone was saying that he actually started it by telling the team to get back on the Banana boat or something to that effect... the concensus was that the ref in question is pretty much a nob.

~Regs.



By Gregor Young (Gregor) (209.52.76.43 - 209.52.76.43) on Sunday, March 14, 1999 - 10:06 pm:


What I heard and what was reported in the Courier was that he said "I've been in this game a long time. I haven't just come across on the banana boat."



By Colin Metcalfe, Eastside Bulldogs, VMSSL 3C (209.53.13.78 - 209.53.13.78) on Saturday, March 27, 1999 - 11:47 am:


The first reason the "major" media don't cover our league is due to the fact that the league very rarely submits press releases or story ideas to the sports editors of the daily or weekly newspapers!

I spent the a whole year working with the BC Lions and Vancouver 86ers creating story ideas and managed, especially for the 86ers, getting them some very high profile coverage. If we as a league want to improve our public profile, we must start by taking the notion seriously.

The first step would be to create a media relaions/communications committee that is responsible for creating story ideas and "pitch" them to the various media outlets.

Its fine to sit back and complain about our lack of coverage, but if you are serious about getting into the "news" more often, the league needs a communications/media plan that sets out our objectives.

I would be the first one to offer my time to help the committee get started and implement this strategy.

Just call me.



By Another MF player (Jones) (207.194.173.209 - 207.194.173.209) on Friday, May 21, 1999 - 04:41 pm:


It was a fantastic end to a tough season for us Metro Ford lads. After seeing our arch rivals, the Firemen, win last seasons honors we had to read about their success in the city's major newspapers. Spoils goes to the victors, I guess. After winning this season's final against The Firemen, we were very much looking forward to our well deserved, if brief, moment in the spotlight. Typically for us, it never came. How is it that the best and toughest soccer league in the country can go SO unnoticed? I thought it would be a perfect time to quiz (and vent some frustration to) the editor of the Province Newspaper, Paul Chapman, on the lack of coverage on the Men's and Women's Provincial Finals and the Vancouver Metro Soccer League. Here are the resulting e-mails. It's a little long so forgive me for the ramble.

Paul Chapman

It was really nice to see that The Province Newspaper made an attempt to cover the senior men's soccer Provincial Cup that just rapped up recently. Thanks to Jim Coleman a small and brief write-up was included, a few days late, in the back part of your Wednesday print. My only problem with the editorial was that it was from 14 YEARS AGO! I assume that if I am to find out the result of this year's final I'm going to have to wait until Jim Coleman writes about it on Wednesday, May 9th of the year 2013.

I chose this paper because of it's commitment of bringing better soccer coverage from around the world. Although this has improved over past years, ignoring the local soccer scene at the climax of it's season proves that someone is missing the point. I hear celebrities talk about the press trying to sell more papers. What sells more papers then when someone sees one's self or organization in actual print. Covering the local soccer scene would do this. The soccer community is the largest sports community in Canada and coverage of local soccer games (maybe the game of the week) would keep the community more informed. This would create a source of information that people would turn to first for unbiased information on the local soccer scene. If The Province Newspaper doesn't have someone to cover this scene there is always people who do write for Internet soccer sites that could provide this service. I chose The Province over the National Post because of it's coverage of local sports. To express my disappointment would take too long. I am going to question my commitment regarding my subscription of this paper. It failed miserably.

Maybe the soccer community has failed to do it's job in informing the newspapers of it's important and championship games. Maybe the soccer community has to start pushing it's weight around to get better coverage than local baseball, lacrosse and high school sports. If this is the problem then someone should be told and my problem would then be with the people running BC Soccer and not The Province. I do expect The Province Sports Department to be on top of things that have to do with sports in the community. I could understand (bitterly) the overlook of the men's and women's senior soccer final if it took place in Prince Rupert or if the Canucks and Grizzlies were embroiled in the playoffs. We both know that hasn't happened in a few years and won't happen for a few more years.


Sorry to hear you're disappointed with our soccer coverage. We have some
staffing issues that precipitated our non-coverage of the event, we just
didn't have enough bodies to get someone out to cover it. That's why we
sent a photographer.
That, however, is not your concern. And I promise the event will be covered
next year.
However, it will be covered no thanks to the local soccer scene.
We used to sponsor the Province Cup, hence the name. But the organizers
have seen fit to not approach us, tell us when the event is, or where or
have any sort of coordination with the paper on the event. As a result we
dropped sponsorship two years ago.
Last year I personally covered the final, when they held it in Abbottsford.
This year I asked that although we couldn't get a writer to the event,
could someone, anyone, involved in the final call, fax or email us the
scores. They didn't.
Now, your point is well taken and we'll try harder to provide better soccer
coverage.
But what I blanche at is your criticism of other sports. I get twice as
many calls from the lacrosse, rugby, baseball and high school communities
complaining about our coverage of their sports than I do from soccer. And
more than 60 per cent of our readers have said we do an excellent job
covering soccer.
But beyond all that, the biggest complaint we continue to get, if you can
believe it, is from hockey fans who say they want more.
Anyway, my point being that I understand your concerns with our missing
this event, I have played soccer all my life, and still play in the over
30s league on the North Shore, so we'll try better.
But please don't try to tear down other sports to justify more coverage for
your own. We try to cover events on merit, not by comparison.
Thanks so much for your input, and you have my apologies.
Paul Chapman

Paul Chapman
Province Sports Editor

Mr. Paul Chapman,

Thank you for getting back to me so soon. I actually thought my E-mail would be given little attention or discarded (if I had received a nasty E-mail like that I may have done so). Getting back to me so quickly demonstrates your commitment to your readers and your decency. Good luck on the staffing issue and let's hope the person you hire is a soccer enthusiast.

Your answer to the reasons why local soccer is excluded from your paper was enlightening and has, unfortunately, leads to more questions. In my last E-mail, I had said that if the blame falls to the people of BC Soccer than my complaint is with them. Obviously, they are not doing their part in get local soccer the exposure it needs. In what way can this be achieved? You commented that you get twice as many calls from the lacrosse, rugby, baseball and high school communities complaining about our coverage of their sports than I do from soccer. If that is the case then the local soccer community is not complaining enough for local soccer coverage. All these areas have editorials cover these areas to a certain extent. Would filing more complaint be the most direct way of achieving more exposure?

Classification of what is local soccer may be another problem. I would not considered the 86ers local soccer although there are many players playing in both the 86ers league and the Vancouver Metro league. I wouldn't classify the University soccer teams in the University section of your paper as local soccer. I will agree with you that these teams do get decent coverage since I have played with both organization. The members of the Vancouver Senior Men's Metro Premier Soccer League feel that they are at least on par with the Western Lacrosse Association. Both display, arguably, the best local talent, draw crowds to their game and both have room to grow. It seems to the untrained eye that lacrosse has done a far better job in media relations than has soccer. Could the problem for local soccer be that there are higher tiers of soccer (World Soccer, the 86ers and then the Van. Metro Premier Soccer League (VMPSL))? Lacrosse only really has the leagues back east to compete with and therefor provide little competition for media coverage. Lacrosse seems to promote their star such as the Gait brothers and rightfully they should because they are awesome. The 86ers do. The VMPSL doesn't. Would this attract more attention to the mission? If they hire or appoint a media relations director would it be worth the time?

The media is unfairly receiving a bad rap concerning soccer's inability to flourish. I understand that the Pacific Coast Soccer League is having the same problem and your response was quite similar to the one you gave me. A local web site/forum called the "North Shore Pegasus Soccer WebPages" has a section in it that discusses media concerns. Some of the responses are totally inaccurate and blame the whole problem on the media. Being quite an interesting site and attracting many soccer readers from across the province, I'm wondering if I could publicize our e-mails in hopes of shedding some light on this problem. If you haven't already, I recommend checking the site out. I believe it does have a section for North Shore over 30's summer leagues (http://www.centrallimit.com/forum/), . Soccer has many problems that need to be tackled and media coverage is just a small fraction of it, but it is a start. Some of us are tired of watching the bumbling of the Canadian Soccer Association and want to change things that they feel they can. Unfortunately for you, the Province Newspaper is the starting point. As a fellow soccer player and fan, I'm sure you can understand this point of view.

One comment in your response that I disagree with is your accusation that I criticised other sports. I don't believe that I criticized anyone but the Canucks and Grizzilies. As a paying customer to both those sports, I believe I have a right to criticize them with out any guilt or protest. As far as lacrosse, rugby, baseball and high school communities goes I don't believe I criticized them. I compared there size in #'s, but never criticized them.

Thanks for your time
Dan Jones

Dan,

Thanks for such a detailed and eloquent reply.
First of all, the only point I try to make to people who complain about
coverage is just use your own sports merits, don't moan about the space
other sports get to poach that for interest in another sport. And to be
fair, I'm not sure you did that.
To answer a number of your points, I think you're absolutely right with
your point about lacrosse. If we're carrying a page on the FA Cup, half a
page on the Italian, German. French leagues, a story on the 86ers and a
preview of the women's world cup, then we have room for another story, it
probably would be lacrosse over the metro league because we already have so
much soccer news in the paper.
But that's a workable problem. It just means we run stories on days when
there is no other soccer going on.
And as for the PR person, yes, a proper media director, with people skills,
would be a tremendous asset to both the soccer community, and to those of
us trying to cover the league. We then would have an avenue to find good
human interest feature stories that people who enjoy sports would like.
To give an example, you say you're email to me was nasty, well it was a
Hallmark Moment compared to ones I received recently from the presidents of
the PCSL and the Metro League. The viciousness of their attacks made me
wonder whether they had any problem solving skills at all, and I pointed
out to both of them, I have a phone, am usually a rational, responsive
person and anything can be worked out.
As far as solving some of these problems, I am due to meet with Rob Brown
of BC Soccer this week to try and come up with a way we can get regular
coverage in for next season.
Thanks for your time, your insight and your input. It's greatly appreciated
Paul

Paul Chapman
Province Sports Editor


Hope this starts the ball rolling to more media coverage.

Cheers,
Jonesy



By Coach K (Kaaos) (24.113.15.238 - 24.113.15.238) on Friday, May 21, 1999 - 07:03 pm:


Colin and Jonesy
Well said,boy`s, seems like the ball is in our court,Rob Brown can be counted on to talk it up a bit,he never seemed to have a problem during any match I ever watched him Ref.What next?lets all,in this forum, keep ourselves informed.Paul Chapman,seems like a reasonable type and just needs a bit of co operation on the part of the Metro Leagues.Lets not **** it up,and give him some.

Cheers Keith



By Gregor Young (Gregor) (209.52.76.79 - 209.52.76.79) on Saturday, May 22, 1999 - 01:28 pm:


I played youth soccer with Paul Chapman on the North Shore eons ago. If you're reading Paul don't worry , I won't mention your youthful fondness for Ultravox and Paul Welleresqe pointy leather shoes.

He was a full on soccer fan then and I'm sure he is now but editors aren't able to completely re-tool the sports section to suit their own whims. Everything that goes into that section is assessed on how many readers it can bring in per column inch allocated. Since there is a corresponding ad revenue value for those column inches, the Province is not going to commit to regular, ongoing coverage of a sport that it doesn't feel will at least get the same readership as their other articles. If advertisers start saying "Don't put me on the local soccer page", you can bet the local soccer page will be gone very quickly regardless of the quality of the stories.

This is also why we are subjected to the inexcusably bad columns by the many name brand TV journalists whose words have to be stitched together by staff writers from mumblings uttered into the phone.

Don Cherry? Don Taylor? John McKeachie?

They are embarrassing. There are thousands of people who could write more entertaining, informative columns in this city but because they don't come with the strong 'name brand-awareness' that suits the stilted attention span of most Province readers they don't get published. Instead we get treated to endless rounds of "How about them Sabres? I tell ya..."

It also concerns me that sports journalists have completely abdicated their role as story developers to PR people, media liaisons and the like. The laziness is so engrained that you'd be hard pressed to find anything in the sports pages that isn't the result of either a press conference staged for the benefit of the media or a story suggestions from said PR people. Ironically the only decent sports article I can recall right now from a Vancouver paper wasn't even in the Sports section or by a Pacific Press staffer. It was a freelance article by Pamela Swanigan in the Sun's new weekend "Mix" section about the Grizzlies and how their American players really have no knowledge of the city or Canada in general and don't really care despite the machinations of the Grizzlies to portray them as pillars of the community.

I have seen, first hand, the complete dependance that the media have on the people and teams they are supposed to be writing about to generate the ideas that will form their copy. I have to look long and hard to find decent sports journalism (one of favourite genres) and if we're expecting it to come and seek us out we'll be waiting a long time. While I'm moaning about how PR people shape the content of the sports section I do acknowledge that from a team or league point of view it is great and easily the best way to get publicity for your group.

Personally, I don't really care much if Metro gets much play in the media. I'd just like to see the media do their job, find their own stories, write their own stories, stop feeding us the same pablum, and, if they do, that there will be a natural, concomitant increase in coverage of things like Metro soccer.

I know this is all a bit Noam Chomsky but sports is a powerful force in society today and the way in which it is reported on TV and in print is an appallingly poor reflection of this power.

BTW, if the Province does decide they'd like to cover a "Game of the Week", as Jonesy suggested, that would be easy to arrange as we can just have the league simply fax over Westside's schedule...



By Mr. Peg (Fronk) (209.17.154.231 - 209.17.154.231) on Saturday, May 22, 1999 - 10:32 pm:


Gregor,

Yes, I agree. Only Westside games. Quotes from
Coach K would surely generate a cult following
from sports section readers. A comment like "Lets
not **** it up,and give him some" rivals anything
Don Cherry has said lately.



By Coach K (Kaaos) (24.113.15.238 - 24.113.15.238) on Sunday, May 23, 1999 - 11:03 am:


Gregor
It looks a bit like a back door resume,that you posted to Paul Chapman,you`ve never been the same, since James Lawton left town,and ,oh, those long words(I thought that machinations was what Brazil did to other teams)I think Paul, should hire you immediatly, and put you on the," Westside beat",bring a bit of class to the " Beautifull game" before someone has a chance to **** it up.
I went to the 86`s game last Friday,a very dull affair,like watching porrige come to a boil, untill they can find someone to dig the ball out, aka,John Catliffe,they are going to find it very difficult to score, Dominic,is still the best finisher on the squad but without any service,it looks like they will have to rely on,mostly individual,efforts,they did,however,make up some pretty nice triangles at times.
Cheers Keith



By Gregor Young (Gregor) (209.52.76.35 - 209.52.76.35) on Sunday, May 23, 1999 - 11:16 am:


James Lawton was a good writer who thought he was a great writer, one who considered himself far better than those he wrote about. Still, he was different and was the last local sports writer to try to take a different tack and write with some wit and intelligence.

Just to show I'm not simply anti-Province, someone should really take away Sun sports editor Gary Mason's computer. He is awful. Not just because he has no interest whatsoever in soccer but because he writes like I dribble. Awkward, predictable, and usually ends up going nowhere. He's got a good eye for interesting subject matter, which qualifies him to be a decent editor, but he should hand off the stories to someone who can do them justice.



By Eli (Eli) (209.53.121.32 - 209.53.121.32) on Wednesday, May 26, 1999 - 08:38 pm:


Gregor,
Do you really want media coverage during your games against Indo the p.k. kings?



By Gregor Young (Gregor) (209.52.76.111 - 209.52.76.111) on Thursday, May 27, 1999 - 11:08 pm:


As I said I don't really care about the media covering Metro games but I get what you're saying.

Then again, when you can throw out a ****y statement about your team and the only thing people can say is "Oh yeah? You guys lost a couple of games on PKs, so there!", you know you've had a pretty good year. I'll admit not as good as yours turned out to be, but then again you guys didn't beat us did you?



By Iron Burnsie (Burnsie) (216.66.132.105 - 216.66.132.105) on Thursday, May 27, 1999 - 11:36 pm:


Gregor,

Will you be filming Captain Shamrock on Sunday for the 86ers video ? I am sure Bobby has been requesting for quite a while. Don't disappoint him. Will you be available for tomorrow night ? We will have a few pints in Richmond. Hope to see you. Please post if you're interested or call me and let me know. I am waiting to hear from Regs. We will meet at the Delta Hotel, the one closest to the airport at around 6:30 or 7:00. A couple of beverages there and then...........

Hope to see you before Sunday.

Bobby forever.



By Regs (Admin) (209.53.56.44 - 209.53.56.44) on Friday, May 28, 1999 - 01:14 am:


Gregor,

I've witnessed some pretty witty retorts in this forum, a majority from yourself... let's just say that one wasn't one of them ;-)

~Regs.



By Gregor Young (Gregor) (209.52.76.56 - 209.52.76.56) on Friday, May 28, 1999 - 06:29 pm:


Burnsie et al,

Have fun tonight. I can't join you. I forgot my wife's going away for the weekend and I'm pretty sure neither of my kids can pass for 19 yet.

Regs,

I can't be wasting all my best lines in non prime time weeks can I? When the traffic returns to this forum, I'll take a nanosecond to brighten your life with some humour of the quality you've come to expect.



By Regs (Admin) (209.53.56.44 - 209.53.56.44) on Monday, May 31, 1999 - 05:28 pm:


Gregor,

Understood ;-)

~Regs.



By Sandman (Sandys) (209.52.187.213 - 209.52.187.213) on Tuesday, June 1, 1999 - 12:12 pm:


Eli:

First of all, sincerest congratulations on winning the Provincial Cup from the Indo lads,it's no easy task to win it all, and I anticipate you will bring the cup back to the west coast where it belongs. BUT.... "Indo the PK kings", come on mate, give us a little credit. First, I don't like to decide games by PK's, but those are the rules. Second,we held the leagues best team and most potent offence to a single goal in 240 minutes of soccer (Reedy, that's two games and two overtimes, in case you started to add). Isn't it ironic that you slag us for two PK wins, but it was your team that needed a PK in the second OT, with our team three men down to secure a victory, so.....I give Metro Ford credit for their excellent cup run, from your backdoor victory to the cup final, but to label us as "PK kings" is unwarranted. It just bothered me that labeling us as "PK kings" taints our season, when in fact it shouldn't.

Burnsie:
Taxes...free, just buy me some green beer at the Nations Cup.

Marty:
How about a Protest update, you seem to know more than me. Is it going to FIFA?

Cheers,
Sandy



By Regs (Admin) (209.53.56.44 - 209.53.56.44) on Tuesday, June 1, 1999 - 12:30 pm:


Controversy, I love it (as long as there is accountability ;-))... Is this better Gregor? ;-)

~Regs.

PS. Sandman, Don't read too much into ppl refering to Indo as "PK Kings"... I can think of a few things that ppl could use after the protest stuff went down ;-)



By Gregor Young (Gregor) (209.52.76.8 - 209.52.76.8) on Tuesday, June 1, 1999 - 01:13 pm:


Oh sure Regs, enjoy it, but it's not you having to wipe away the tears after that scathing attack I received from Jonesy, is it. And everybody says he's such a nice guy...



By Eli (Eli) (209.53.121.13 - 209.53.121.13) on Tuesday, June 1, 1999 - 07:11 pm:


Sandman,

Nice paragragh. You shouldn't get yourself bent out of shape reading between the lines. It was a compliment, not something requiring a protest.

Burnsie et al,

Whatch out for Danny Jones, he's on the warpath!



By Coach K (Kaaos) (24.113.15.238 - 24.113.15.238) on Tuesday, June 1, 1999 - 07:59 pm:


Sandman
Leagues best team.....Most potent offence.....A most accurate description,couldnt have put it better,myself,but you`re still the PK kings,as far as letting only one goal in those 240 minutes you can thank Didar for that,the rest of your lads didn`t stop us from getting the chances,the big guy just came up BIG,as time goes by,you are tending to put yourselves more in the game than you really were,as I have said before if it was a ten round fight,we won eight but failed to find the knockout,and before you say games arn`t scored that way,it`s only an analogy.You won the bleedin game so be proud of it..... PK`s and all.

p.s
What date is the Nations cup



By Sandman (Sandys) (209.52.187.213 - 209.52.187.213) on Wednesday, June 2, 1999 - 11:42 am:


Coach K;
Keith, Keith, Keith, Do I hear some bitterness First of all, Didar is the man, and there is absolutely, no doubt about that. Second, of course I am proud of beating your team, not once, but twice. But many people like yourself seem to preface all these nice rosey comments with the fact that we beat you on PK's, like it's some sort of black mark on our victories. I never made the rules, and it is not my fault that you failed to live up to your remarkable season. You of all people, as a coach should realize that there are 11 players on the pitch, and it needs a contribution from all players to win a game. Of course Didar is a stud, but Didar would be the first to say that the rest of the lads require a wee bit of credit as well. Further, instead of dwelling, on the Indo vs. Westside matches, how about looking at the big picture and evaluating our season, as a first year team who finished second on their side, an Imperial Cup victory, and a final four finish in the provincials. Only two of our matches out of the 27 we played went into pk's. So yes, Mr. Heald, I as well as the rest of my mates are proud of our season, I don't need you to remind me of it.

SandyS



By Another MF player (Jones) (207.194.173.208 - 207.194.173.208) on Thursday, June 17, 1999 - 10:35 am:


Forum,

Two nights ago I was flipping through the channels on the telly and happened across a Western Lacrosse Association game between the Burnaby Lakers and the New West Salmonbellies on CTV Sports Net. Local lacrosse has now progressed from Rogers Cable to regional broadcasting across the province on a major sporting network (I'm assuming it's regional and could have been national but I doubt it.) What is that league doing right that we are either doing wrong or haven't tried. Their league gets sufficient media coverage in the newspaper and their scores are frequently displayed on Sportspage and other local network sports segments. Whoever is in charge of their PR is doing a fantastic job. We have to find out what they're doing right and copy it. Getting our league on local Rogers community television can't be too hard if we have a game of the week, could it? Maybe Gregor has more insight to this then I do. Can the leaugue package something intersesting enough up for Rogers so that they might be interested enough to broadcast it every Tuesday or Wednesday perhaps? And then maybe one day...........

Jonesy



By Gregor Young (Gregor) (209.52.76.3 - 209.52.76.3) on Thursday, June 17, 1999 - 04:56 pm:


Jonesy,

The WLA broadcasts are still produced and packaged by Rogers and yes they are shown on a regional basis. I think Sportsnet saw how popular lacrosse in Toronto became (either as a result of the TV coverage or on its own) and thought they should grab the rights to the WLA in expectation of a similar boom here.

Ironically, the lacrosse is considered better quality (from what I've heard) out here yet their crowds have been going down steadily over the years. The Toronto Rock were almost selling out Maple Leaf Gardens. I used to play lacrosse when I was younger and we'd go to WLA games and they would get enough people to fill Queen's Park. Now the games on TV look empty.

I'd be surprised if the WLA is getting a penny out of this arrangement. They're probably very happy for the exposure and CTV's probably happy to get cheap Canadian content that has the potential to take off the way it did in Toronto. I can't remember if it was TSN or Sportsnet that broadcast the Toronto lacrosse games but I do remember hearing that the ratings were very, very good.

As for Rogers broadcasts of Metro games, I can't see it happening. Metro games are TV unfriendly. There are no built in vantage points so scaffolding and booths need to be set up and supplied with power. The lack of crowds at the games looks bad on TV as well. If the 86ers can't get themselves coverage then I don't see much hope. Even when Rogers came out and did some games they were charging the team $1500 a crack.

What would be interesting though is to see how much DV and full motion video on the web will change all that. Once that reaches critical mass, Regs can start hosting a weekly Metro League TV show on his web site. People can bring digital video (DV) cameras to their games, tape highlights and interviews, edit them down on their Mac (or PC), fire them off on a T1 to Regs and everybody can then see with their own eyes how much better Westside is week after week.



By Regs (Admin) (209.53.56.44 - 209.53.56.44) on Thursday, June 17, 1999 - 05:31 pm:


Gregor,

It's funny that you brought that up because I've been meaning to put up some video footage of Peg's first BC win in '95... I already have the equipment to do it (just hook up the vcr to the computer and use some software I have to digitize it) and can use RealVideo to stream it. In essence, all teams would have to do is video tape their games and courier over a vhs tape to me so T1's wouldn't even be necessary.

Anyways, back to work.

~Regs.



By Toze (Colin) (207.194.208.178 - 207.194.208.178) on Thursday, June 17, 1999 - 07:10 pm:


re...Rogers stuff.

Rogers badly wanted to broadcast an 86'ers package this year...but the A'League has signed a contract to produce a 'Game of the Week' on an American Sports Network (I don't know which one the 'deuce' would be my guess). SportNet has the option to show these matches if they wish.

Rogers felt as though the 86'ers snubbed them waving the 'game of the week' deal in their face...only to find out not a single 86'ers game was in the package. All A'League teams are tied to this contract and no outside television companies can broadcast A'League matches independently. I was going to be part of the Rogers Crew and am totally disapointed it did not come together. But from what I heard about the 98' deal between the Sixers and Rogers...well the Rogers people felt the Sixers were arrogant and totally unapreciative (sp?) of the Rogers effort. Burnsie will be happy to know that 'colour man' BoB Lenarduzzi often showed up late, sometimes halftime and wasn't exactly co-operative.

I know nothing about the sixers paying $1500 bucks for the broadcast...news to me.

As for Rogers showing a Metro Game of the week, well it would take a hell of a proposal and next year is probably already out of the question. I'd absolutely love to see it but it's probably a pipe dream. First, as Gregor says, television needs sightlines, ie. a stadium...or it looks like crap (not to mention a crowd of some sort who actually make noise). Second the Lacrosse comparison is, in my opinion, not very well thought out. (please, no offense meant) There are many Lacrosse players and fans around and they get virtually no coverage whatsoever. Although local soccer gets feeble press attention, we still get Man United vs Bayern Munich...World Cup...Euro Nations... English League on Saturdays and Italian League on Sundays etc., it's not like we don't get SOCCER!

I'd absolutely love to watch a Metro match every Sunday night (or whatever) but it's tough to say soccer as a whole is being neglected, though I whish there was still much more.

Toze



By Regs (Admin) (209.53.56.44 - 209.53.56.44) on Thursday, June 17, 1999 - 08:58 pm:


Toze,

Thanks for the info...

First, and this just for everyone's information, the 'duece' would NEVER show an A-league game ;-) ESPN2 shows almost a game a week from the MLS as does ESPN. The American Sports Network you are refering to is the FOXSPORTS Regional Networks (there are many serving the major regions of the US). This explains why CTV SportsNet has the option of showing the games... FOXSPORTS and SportsNet are aligned together (whether they are owned by the same company or have common investors, I can't recall). TSN is likewise affiliated with ESPN. This is why we now get most of our soccer on SportsNet as FoxSports holds most of the North American rights for alot of the leagues and tourneys throughout the world (ever notice the FoxSports World icons in these broadcasts? now you know why). TSN shows Champions League stuff and Spanish League because, you guessed it, ESPN holds the rights.

These things can change as I believe some of the broadcasting contracts are up soon. A great site for keeping track of what soccer is being broadcast on what is http://www.soccertv.com

Sixer's management being arrogant? Naw, couldn't be !

~Regs.



By Regs (Admin) (209.53.56.44 - 209.53.56.44) on Thursday, June 17, 1999 - 09:04 pm:


BTW (I just went to SoccerTV), for those who enjoy Italian League games you're out of luck for next year unless you have TeleLatino or RAI International. CTV SportNet will NOT be able to air them (nor will TSN).

~Regs.



By Gregor Young (Gregor) (209.52.76.41 - 209.52.76.41) on Thursday, June 17, 1999 - 10:21 pm:


Regs,

I can't believe Rino managed to get his Italian League a TV contract in Italy. That man has connections Roy can only dream about.

Toze,

The 86ers paid $1500 per game for a five game package in 1997. I believe, but I'm not sure , that Rogers didn't get any money for the '98 season.

The only way the Sixers will get on TV this year is if they make the final. I believe Sportsnet are showing three Toronto Lynx games. Rochester are on ~five times.



By Gregor Young (Gregor) (209.52.76.61 - 209.52.76.61) on Friday, June 18, 1999 - 11:52 pm:


Toze,

Re: Rogers. I just found out today what while they did the 86ers games for nothing last year they wanted $10 000 for a five game package this year.



By Gregor Young (Gregor) (209.52.76.71 - 209.52.76.71) on Saturday, August 7, 1999 - 12:32 pm:


An Open Letter to Gary Mason, Editor, Sports, Vancouver Sun

Gary,

Saturday's sports section is a disgrace. The whole section is becoming an anachronism that bears no resemblance to the sports landscape in the Lower Mainland. Your abysmal coverage of the Vancouver 86ers game against San Francisco is symptomatic of the complete detachment your department has from stories of significance and local resonance.

There is something happening at 86ers home games this year that is putting the Grizzlies, Canucks and Lions to shame. The fans are reclaiming the creation of atmosphere and taking responsibility for making games an event to remember. Last night there were hundreds of fans behind the San Francisco net going ape shit the whole second half. Chanting, yelling, throbbing. Not to the accompaniment of a smoke and laser show or some techno music and video clip on the scoreboard or in response to a fan-o-meter imploring them to 'make some noise'. This was completely free of the machinations of marketing and promotions. These people show up, have some beers and give the visitors stick for the entire game. It's what going to a sports event used to be like before franchises started treating their fans like children and viewing them as a captive demographic that could be sold to for the two or three hours they were there.

The players are in awe of the fans. Both visiting players and the 86ers. I know this because I'm doing a video documentary of the team this year and I speak to them and I know you are missing one of the most interesting sports stories of the year. These people are fans. They are not corporate season ticket holders or the people who get free tickets from such corporations when they're not trying to impress a client. These people buy their tickets, settle into their own chosen section and go nuts for their team. They are witty, relentless and very intimidating for visiting keepers.

And what's best is that the 86ers are giving them every reason to. Last night's game was one of the most memorable in Swangard history. Down 3-2 in the second half and then down a man when Niall Thompson (not Sebrango as your insulting blurb claimed - yet another issue: the number of factual errors that punctuate soccer stories) got sent off. They go on to score three goals with only ten men and continue a streak that has seen them move into contention for first in their conference and establish themselves as serious championship contenders. This may be the best squad the 86ers have had in their history and again I know of what I speak because I played for the team when Catliff, Easton, Ivor Evans et al were there.

Is none of this of relevance to the Vancouver Sun? Is covering this team such a low priority that instead you opt to run thirteen wire service stories, two by Wendy Long from the Pan Am Games and two by your specialty columnists and none from any other staffers? Why should people read your sports section? 90% of it is regurgitated from sources thousands of miles from where real Vancouver sports stories are occurring. I'm sure you have some staff on holidays and such and that seems like a valid excuse to you but really all it says is that as far as priorities go it's best for the bulk of your staff to take their holidays during the 86ers season.

Yes, I'm biased towards soccer. So are the over 300 adult soccer team members (that's over 5000 people) plus the over 4400 that the 86ers are averaging this year. Look at your Saturday sport section and honestly say that it's not a product of laziness rather than a product of determining what the Vancouver sports market wants to see. Your coverage of the 86ers v San Francisco game is an insult to them and the reason that more and more of them are resorting to the internet to get sports coverage; particularly local and international soccer coverage.

I'll be submitting and posting this letter to local soccer websites.


Regards,
Gregor Young
Offtheball.com



By Another MF player (Jones) (207.194.173.122 - 207.194.173.122) on Sunday, August 8, 1999 - 10:42 pm:


Gregor,

Has Gary Mason e-mailed you back about this or given any type of response yet? What a chicken shit. I don't buy the Sun because their sports section is so poor. Chapman from the Province e-mailed me back the next day with his response after I had a go at him. I would like to know what he has to say about his piss poor sports department so post when you hear something.

Jonesy



By Gregor Young (Gregor) (207.194.147.27 - 207.194.147.27) on Sunday, August 8, 1999 - 10:55 pm:


In fairness, I think he's still away on holiday but I don't think he'll respond. I've emailed him once before and never heard from him.