Sixer RANTS and RAVES Part III

Regs · 01-22-2002, 09:48 AM

By nutsaboutsoccer (209.148.249.44 - 209.148.249.44) on Saturday, April 10, 1999 - 05:57 pm:

Regsheem or whatever your name is ....
You say I am a stalker I don't even know you and yet you say I am stalker and you say I have a sister....Well I don't. I just thought one player from your team (pegasus) was a qt. He knows who I am and if he wants find out that is up to him...I just would love to know how the heck you knew that I wasn't really two different people???????

By Chocolate Abdul-Regsheem (Admin) (209.53.4.104 - 209.53.4.104) on Saturday, April 10, 1999 - 06:40 pm:

nutsaboutsoccer/collegeqt,

You come clean and show everyone who you really are and I'll tell you how I know you're one and the same... if you're using some else's computer to sign on (which is highly likely), you should be careful... I'm sure they wouldn't want me to post their home address and phone number in here... ;-)

And just to show I'm not bluffing...

JT, KT, and MT (a male) all reside at the same address in Delta... JT's phone # ends with 87, KT's phone # ends with 27, and MT's phone # ends with 40...

Also, collegeqt (you) first tried to post with an email address of www.blondie@hotmail.com">www.blondie@hotmail.com. Now we have nutsaboutsoccer (you) posting with an email addy of www.nutsaboutsoccer@hotmail.com">www.nutsaboutsoccer@hotmail.com. doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the two are the same by giving obviously fake email addies...

Want more?

~Regsheem.

PS. 23.5 hours till ENLIGHTENMENT

By Alan Douglas (206.12.82.29 - 206.12.82.29) on Tuesday, April 13, 1999 - 04:37 am:

I started this message a while ago, but had to bugger off and only just now have I had time to get back here and post it.

Gregor,
Sorry, I didn't mean to direct the 86ers cluelessness comment towards you. It was more for the peanut gallery in general.

Chris,
Absolutely players are pencilled in. That’s the way it should be. Training camp is not the place where returning players come to show what they can do. They should have done that over the course of the previous season! Training camp is about coaching, team building, match fitness, and seeing what the new guys can do. As long as the returning players are fit and healthy, then you don’t need to see much more.

Regs,
My bad. I confused you with Burnsie there. You must have showered with Irish Spring that day. (as Burnsie might say “it’s a man’s soap but I like it tooooo” :-)

As for the pre-training camp cuts... as I said above, the players are best judged by what they did in the past season. Cutting players right at the end of the season makes no sense, because you don’t yet have a clear idea who’s coming back or what new players might be available. You *do* at the start of training camp. And there’s no point bringing players into camp if they really don’t figure into your plans. I guess this kind of situation doesn’t occur all that often in the big-time big-money leagues, as players who don’t fit in can be traded or sold in the off-season. But in the A-League there’s very little market for any but the best players.

In the VMSL, I realise training camp works very differently. The way I heard it, you hold camp and all those players that can remember where they train make the team :-)

Keith,
The Vancouver Sun made a big deal of Richie getting released but they didn't present the situation accurately. No bridges have been burned with Richie. I can't really speak with any great knowledge about what happened with Craig or Ollie, but what Carl keeps saying is that he is trying to improve the chemistry of the team both on and off the field.

Now I don’t know if any of these players were given the option of playing with the reserves. Yes, a reserve team should have players ready and able to step up when needed, but I’m not so sure that taking some of last year’s starters who used to be on salary and demoting them down to a strictly amateur reserve team is the smart way to go.

Everyone,
As I understand it, Dale is putting together a mix which includes up-and-comers plus older players who can give the benefit of their experience. Keith Izatt, for example, will be playing from what I understand. I’m not sure where Mastro fits into the scheme -- I’ve only heard his name from Regs -- but we’ll see.

So far, Dale has been looking at mostly younger guys. But it’s hard for him to get local players out to camp with so much league and cup play still going on.

Alan/

By Chocolate Abdul-Regsheem (Admin) (209.53.4.104 - 209.53.4.104) on Tuesday, April 13, 1999 - 11:14 am:

Sheps,

With this morning's announcement, I believe now is the time to release your fury ;-)

~Regs.

By Irish Chocolate Abdur-Burnsallah (Burnsie) (216.66.135.129 - 216.66.135.129) on Tuesday, April 13, 1999 - 07:45 pm:

Alan(Ginger Tomkins),

Keep your weak attempt at wit out of the forum. As usual, you have made a dickhead of yourself. What is the point of having these players at the camp if they are going to be kicked out immediately when the other players show up ? How big is that carrot now ? I like the way the system works. You start with 8 and 9 year olds, dangle the carrot and continue it through to the 'reserve' team. Well done. This is how a 'professional' club should work. Give it a rest for a while . When you have something intelligent to say, post it somewhere else. Say your 86ers website, so I can avoid it .

Cheers

AS-SALAAMU ALAIKUM

By Alan Douglas (206.12.82.60 - 206.12.82.60) on Wednesday, April 14, 1999 - 12:51 am:

Burnsie

Your posts typically run from the ridiculous to the sub-lame, but this last one doesn't even come close to making sense. Nobody is going to be "kicked out immediately when the other players show up". I don't know where you could get such a stupid idea.

I quite clearly said that Dale was looking for a mix of up-and-comers and older players. Right now he mostly has younger players in camp, and I would guess that as many as a dozen of the best of these will make the reserve team.

Oh, and I wouldn't worry your pretty little head too much about avoiding intelligent comments from me or anybody else. I assure you, that as adept as you are at avoiding intelligence, it has proven equally successful at avoiding you.

Cheers,
Alan/

By Alan Douglas (206.12.82.58 - 206.12.82.58) on Wednesday, April 14, 1999 - 02:13 am:

BTW Burnsie,

I'm disappointed that you didn't think my little retaliatory dig at you was witty. I though it rather clever to answer your shower remark with one of my own. Oh well. But you know Burnsie, complaining that my insults aren't witty enough is only going to encourage me to try harder. Ergo:

From the home office in Vancouver, British Columbia...

Top 10 Differences Between Burnsie and a Dangling Carrot

10) One turns soft, shrivelled, and unsightly with age, the other is good on salads
9) Bunnies nibble on carrots, while only harlots nibble on Burnsie
8) One is a rope and a root, the other is a rube in a suit
7) At least a carrot is capable of satisfying a woman
6) One is an orange vegetable, while the other only has the IQ of an orange vegetable
5) A dangling carrot is a form of enticement, enough said
4) One is umbelliferous, the other is dumb-bell-iferous
3) Two words: orange; orang-utan
2) One is found dangling in front of a horse’s face, the other is found dangling from back of a horse’s ass

And the #1 Difference Between Burnsie and a Dangling Carrot

1) Carrots are peeled, Burnsie was cut!

:-)

Now let's see some of your great wit, Burnsie. I'm still reeling from that brilliant "dickhead" shot of yours, ya know ;-)

Cheers,
Alan/

By Peter (24.113.0.224 - 24.113.0.224) on Wednesday, April 14, 1999 - 08:22 am:

To all,

A proposal: a new thread for this vindictive,
albeit entertaining, feud...

Peter

By KAAOS (24.113.31.226 - 24.113.31.226) on Wednesday, April 14, 1999 - 08:23 am:

Alan
At one time I thought you,quite a wit,but, now I think I was only half right.
Cheers Keith.

By Chocolate Abdul-Regsheem (Admin) (209.53.4.104 - 209.53.4.104) on Wednesday, April 14, 1999 - 09:21 am:

Alan,

From what I heard, Ollie was one of the top three players last year, so I don't accept your explanation of things... I've noticed a hint of you tiptoeing around this subject, which leads me to believe you're uncomfortable with whatever, if anything, you know...

Also, I've read your explanation of why you were once ashamed to be a fan of the 86ers and if I were Burnsie, I'd rip into you everytime as well.

And finally, if players are not allowed to atone for a dismal previous season (which I don't believe Ollie had) during training camp, why are the coaches?

~Regs.

PS. you say "But in the A-League there’s very little market for any but the best players"... Have you been sniffing glue again? I've read your list of players in camp, and believe me, Ollie is above a good portion of that lot (and we don't even play on the same team!).

By Chocolate Abdul-Regsheem (Admin) (209.53.4.104 - 209.53.4.104) on Wednesday, April 14, 1999 - 09:22 am:

NOW, SHEPS, NOW !!!!!!!!

By Alan Douglas (206.12.82.104 - 206.12.82.104) on Wednesday, April 14, 1999 - 03:41 pm:

Regs,

If Burnsie wants to keep ripping into me, that's his business. But as I’ve indicated several times, I’m getting a little tired of sitting back and taking all these insults. I think I’m established enough now in your little forum that it’s time to start ripping back. It should be fun.

I do tiptoe around the subject of Ollie because I really like him and his family. I don’t want people to think I’m slagging him any more than Carl or the rest of the 86ers organisation want to look like their slagging him. He’s a good player. Nobody disputes that. My understanding is that Carl just didn’t think it was working out and wanted to make some changes to improve the chemistry of the team both on and off the field.

Who ever said that Ollie had a dismal previous season? Not I. The ratings I gave him for the home games were:

Heald 8 5 4 7 5 6 5 7 - 9 8 7 5 - 7 - - 7

Certainly not dismal, but not a great season either. Inconsistent start, good middle, but then tailing off and not much playing time towards the end. He did score a few goals, I'll give him that.

Coaches atoning during training camp?! What kind of utter nonsense is that? Coaches are judged by how they do during the season. Please explain to me how coaches are supposed to atone for a dismal previous year during training camp

Yes, I said that “in the A-League there’s very little market for any but the best players" I was talking about trading or selling players TO OTHER TEAMS. What does that have to do with the list of players in camp?!

I will try to explain this again. In the NHL (for example) if you have a player who the coach feels doesn’t fit in with the team’s chemistry, then you can trade that player to another team. Perhaps you haven’t noticed, but it goes on ALL THE TIME. It doesn’t mean that the player had a dismal previous season, just that the team wants to make some changes.

My point was that it is not so easy for the 86ers to do the same thing. There is no big market for trading players in the A-League, and almost none for a place so geo-politically isolated as Vancouver. The 86ers have almost no interest in acquiring players from other teams, nor do they want to try and force a player to go somewhere he doesn’t want. Besides, few A-League teams pay a player enough to justify a big move. If the 86ers have a player who they don't think is working out the way they'd hope, then all they can do is release him. That way, if he wants to go play in Toronto, Seattle, or elsewhere, then nobody’s stopping him.

BTW Regs. I have said in the past that I am not afraid to respond to any comment or question put to me. If I forget something or overlook it, simply remind me and I will reply. I have also said that I expect the same courtesy in return. With that in mind, please take note of my comments/questions in bold above.

Cheers,
Alan/

PS
If Shep decides not to drop whatever bombshell you think he has, then please relay your understanding of it to me via email and I will be happy to discuss it that way.

As I said, I'm not going to duck any topic or issue. Can you say the same?

By Chocolate Abdul-Regsheem (Admin) (209.53.4.104 - 209.53.4.104) on Wednesday, April 14, 1999 - 04:39 pm:

Muppet,

Everything I need/want to say will be posted right here in "my little forum"... I don't need nor have to hide from anyone by using email...

Ollie is not back for one of two reasons:
#1. He didn't have a good on-field year last year; or
#2. He didn't fit in off the field.

Well, from what I've heard and from your ratings, number one does not seem warranted to the effect of being cut (symantics aside, being "released" and being "cut" are the same thing). Number two is a little confusing to me... Ollie is a great lad off the pitch and I've never heard anyone even insinuate otherwise. Sure he likes a pint, but who doesn't? I can think of a couple of other players who are still on the sixers that have had more than there fair share of wild off-field shenanigans. Also, one reason I can think of on why Ollie didn't play much in the end is because that fine organisation you're so proud of saw fit to sign and play Nico Berg immediately after returning from a 4-month European pound-fest (No offense to Nico)!

FWIW, I didn't mean to imply coaches atoning DURING training camp... it was a reference to Carl's lack of results over the last 4 years and yet he still remains, given another chance!

Where in my post did I say you were ducking issues... do you mean tiptoeing? You already addressed that point at the start of your most recent post, so stop being so ****ing redundant, reading it once is painful enough.

~Regs.

PS. And what the **** is your point of insinuating "I'm" ducking issues or topics? Muppet, indeed...

By Irish Chocolate Abdur-Burnsallah (Burnsie) (216.66.134.53 - 216.66.134.53) on Wednesday, April 14, 1999 - 05:29 pm:

Alan,

First of all, I am glad that you are able to cut and paste. I have have already seen something very similar to 'your' wonderfully creative effort on the internet. Nothing like taking credit for something you didn't do.

I have a couple of questions/comments regarding number 6 and number 7.

What the **** would you know about satisfying a woman ? One should not attempt humor in areas that he has never entered before. After seeing you, I think you would be happy if you got close enough to communicate with someone that was not inflattable ( sp?). Once again, you manage to try and use analogies that are obviously very male oriented. Is there something else you want to share with the Forum regulars ? If so, I don't want to know. I don't swing that way, not that there is anything wrong with it. I am not interested in carrots being used as a phallic symbol. Obviously, you are. As I said Ginger, keep it out of the forum.

I guess being a Physics grad makes you intelligent ? I am very surprised that someone of your stature(ha) would try to attack someone else's intelligence. What do you know about anything other than physics ? Obviously, you know nothing about soccer and I am guessing you wouldn't have a clue on how to have decent conversation in any type of social setting. Can you spell paranoid ? Alan, have you heard of the 'short man complex'? Now, I am no towering giant but I don't drag a chip, the size of Alaska, on my shoulder. How is your shoulder doing ?

By Irish Chocolate Abdur-Burnsallah (Burnsie) (216.66.134.53 - 216.66.134.53) on Wednesday, April 14, 1999 - 05:55 pm:

Alan,

I didn't want to be disconnected. I only have a couple of more things to add.

I am assuming this little 'top 10 ' list was used to try and impress the forum. By reading a couple of comments , you can see that you have failed in this area too. Is there anything you can do well ? When you come up with something, I would even like to see this in the Forum. I am guessing a week would not be enough time for you to come up with something.

Keep up the great work, Ginger. I am sure the 86ers are going places with such a terrific ambassador , such as yourself. That Physics degree , along with your burning desire for the game, should raise you to another journalistic level. Have you learned any of the rules yet ? If you have, kudos.

It was brilliant watching the 86ers set up triangles over the field. They passed with the precision of a sculptor. At one point, they strung 12 passes in a row, but the play broke down. The fans will continue to flow into Swangard with passing displays like this. As a die-hard fan, I know I will be back to witness this majestic passing. This is all thanks to the total soccer approach of Ajax.

See Alan, I don't need to be at a game to write a report like you, and I am not intelligent at all. Ask Bobby if I can do your job for a while. Actually no, I am not willing to go below the belt. Cheers, Tomkins.

p.s. This is the last time I will respond to you Alan because it really is a waste of my time. You can post all the dribble you want but Irish Chocolate is bored of you. I am tired of all the shit that you post about soccer, not of you 'creative' remarks towards me.

I hope to see you at one of my games one day, standing on the sideline. Have you ever seen a player go over the ball on a spectator before? I have. Geoff Aunger pulled it off. This would have been another black mark in your illustrious ( sp?) soccer career as a spectator. It was very well planned but I don't have the intelligence or ability to do something like this.........

AS-SALAAMU ALAIKUM

By SYSA/SFC (Roy) (206.108.197.113 - 206.108.197.113) on Thursday, April 15, 1999 - 07:42 am:

Burnsie
Well said.
Are you still on for U21 with SFC Peg this spring.
McCann would welcome a player of your stature and skill to work with the young lads. Call him at 534-9791.
Regs
Same for you. We want players that will aid in the development and growth of the younger boys,

RM

By sorry (209.148.239.218 - 209.148.239.218) on Thursday, April 15, 1999 - 10:58 am:

Regs I don't know what #'s you are talking about. I just have a crush on one of the players.... I don't know anything else.....sorry it was a stupid joke about Rob to do that and please appoligize 4 me.....but don't tell him who I am cause he knows me and I will feel so stupid.

By Alan Douglas (206.12.82.103 - 206.12.82.103) on Thursday, April 15, 1999 - 04:41 pm:

Regs,

You’re really not making your argument very clear. A topic sentence would really have helped. :-)

You claim that there are only two possible reasons for Ollie not to come back, and you then argue against both of them!!! Obviously then, either one of your arguments is wrong, or there are in fact more possible reasons that you have overlooked (ever hear of the Fallacy of the Excluded Middle?).

Are you trying to run some kind of reductio ad absurdum? My best guess here is that you are trying to show that there can be no rational reason for Ollie to be released, with the conclusion that Carl doesn’t know what he’s doing (it’s pretty sad when you need your opponent’s help to complete your arguments, eh :-)

If that’s the case, then OK. I’ll go along with that. Carl just throws darts at the dart board and that’s how he picks his team. Oops, he hits double 13, that means Ollie gets cut. If that’s what you’re trying to get at Regs, then fine, I’ll agree with you. You see, I don’t want to keep dragging players like Ollie and Richie and Dal into this, so let’s all just slag Carl instead. At least I know he’s going to have the chance to show how good or bad a coach he is over the course of the season, while Ollie... well, I don’t know what Ollie plans to do, but I wish him well. And Ollie and the rest of the Healds, if you’re out there, then I do apologise for all this. Regs just won’t let this one go.

FWIW, if you didn’t mean to “imply” that coaches atone during training camp, the perhaps you shouldn’t have said “if players are not allowed to atone for a dismal previous season (which I don't believe Ollie had) during training camp, why are the coaches?”

Where in my post did I say that you said I was ducking issues? :-) I was simply stating the fact that I will not duck issues. If Shep has some bombshell to drop, then let’s have it.

As for you, you certainly have ducked issues. For example, remember when you were complaining about what a bad decision it was to bring back Bob as GM? I asked you to offer some names of who would be a better choice for GM. You said nothing. I repeated the question, and added that if you couldn’t think of anybody specific, then could you at least run down the qualifications such a person should have. You said nothing.

Or how about when I was looking for names of VMSL players that the 86ers should look at. You said nothing, even though you have repeatedly complained about the 86ers ignoring VMSL players. I then asked you directly to offer some names, and you replied that “hints” had been dropped and that was good enough.

Cheers,
Alan/

By Alan Douglas (206.12.82.103 - 206.12.82.103) on Thursday, April 15, 1999 - 05:09 pm:

Burnsie, and everybody else for that matter, this is very simple. If you don’t like what I write about soccer then don’t read it. If you do read it and have a problem with it, then let’s discuss it. I welcome discussion. I welcome debate. I welcome constructive criticism. There are lot of people here who have experience and understanding about playing the game at a high level that I lack. I acknowledge that. But don’t expect me to automatically bow down to your “greater” expertise. And also understand that if the discussion doesn’t go quite as well as you had planned and you decide to just start slinging insults at me, then you can expect to see some measure of return fire.

Sadly, slinging insults has been Burnsie’s favourite fall-back position all too often. And now that I’ve started to sling back, he suddenly pulls the old “I’m not going to waste my time replying to you anymore” line. Best decision you’ve made yet Burnsie. You can’t win an argument with me; you can’t win a flame war; so by all means go spend your precious connect time bettering society in Gambler’s Alley. (I just hope that you and the rest of the gang know that the juice in a 3-game SA parlay is nearly 50%, and it gets worse the more games you play)

BTW, I made that little Top 10 List (just as I’ve made my other Top 10 Lists -- you can find them dotted around the internet in a couple of “Best of” archives), because it was a challenge and it was fun. If you honestly doubt my authorship Burnsie, then please suggest any common object and I will create at least a Top 5 List of either the similarities or differences between it and you. (shades of Cyrano, eh what?)

Cheers,
Alan/

P.S.
FYI, my degree was combined honours in Math and Physics. And I am not homosexual, but thanks for asking.

By Dutch Chocolate Abdul-Wahaab Big'unallah (Chris) (204.244.19.148 - 204.244.19.148) on Thursday, April 15, 1999 - 06:06 pm:

Alan,

Hmmmm.... where to begin.

It seems that sometimes you don't get it. I, and others had actually begun to "welcome" some of your contributions to this forum (for whatever that is worth). Questions were being answered, discussions occured, and I even glimpsed occasional concessions in your posts -- all of which led me to believe you were coming around.

Then I read this latest exchange.

I understood your handling of the "Ollie" discussion, even though I don't know anything about him (Regs did too, I think you missed what he was getting at). What I don't get is your ill-attempted try for humour in the "Top 10" list. More successfull lists have been posted in this alley (See Gregor, Reedy and others)but they usually have a connection to the "spirit" of this forum rather than just a podium for a personal attack. Perhaps that is the key. You take everything "personally". You read into some posts in ways that truly do seem "paranoid". Now, I realize you've had your share of spears chucked in your direction and may perhaps be in high defense mode. Hell, I enjoyed throwing some of them. However, your "die-hard" fan mentality seems to take you onto tangents that are diificult to follow.

You are a "fan", as am I. Burnsie and others in this forum are "players". Huge difference. They have insight into events and happenings regarding the "beloved" organization" that you are either unaware of, or unwilling to acknowledge. Your angelic view of the sixers must frustrate the hell out of people how might know better, or have happened to experience other than. If you were in their shoes, would you not feel similar frustration? Indeed, consider how remarkable it is that they have not really said anything truly detrimental. They have always "tip-toed" around it as you did the Ollie affair. After continually hearing about the Utopia you paint, it is possible to strike a nerve.

Surely you must acknowledge that players such as Bursie are privy to information that you would NEVER have access to. The information that "the lads" share. Therefore, when you post about this apparently traumatic intramural event and how it tainted soccer that bloody day, can you possibly see how ludicrous and trivial that must be when put beside the fountain of events "a player" could draw from?

I'd love to hear some of the stories being alluded to. They would be priceless. Though I don't expect to see them here anytime soon. That is a little of locker room etiquette that the lads also share and usually know how far it extends. But Lord it must be hard stay mute sometimes.

So which is it Alan? Are you unaware, or will you simply not acknowledge the possibilty and write off Bursie et al as a collective case of sour grapes?

Things look a whole lot different, when you look at them as "a player" rather than as simply a fan.

Maybe that will help put some perspective into things Alan.

Cheers

Dutch

By Chocolate Abdul-Regsheem (Admin) (209.53.4.104 - 209.53.4.104) on Thursday, April 15, 1999 - 06:46 pm:

Muppet,

Let me try and speak in english here...

The two possible reasons I gave were the ones that YOU provided (lack of production last year and wanting to improve on-field, off-field chemistry). Since YOU are in the know, I'm assuming these are the only two, otherwise YOU would have posted others...

DO YOU UNDERSTAND SO FAR?

I do not support either and thought that I had clearly made that point in my post. What I'm trying to show (and have been from the start) is that the sixers did not use good judgement in "releasing" players at the time they did, using the excuses you have provided. Instead of giving players the winter to seek other options out, the sixers left them high and dry with little to no time to map out their future plans.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND SO FAR?

Now, YOU are the one supporting Carl/Bobby's positions, correct? As a soccer fan, YOU do not feel that these players were slighted in any way, correct?... So far, that is the only conclusion that can be made in here. So I'd suggest you NOT attempt gaining some amount of sympathy from the Heald faction (which BTW was really poor as, in the previous sentence you basically wrote 'well Carl still has a job and Ollie doesn't'... seems pretty slimey to me).

DO YOU UNDERSTAND SO FAR?

Did I not explain what I meant to "imply" with the 'atonement' stuff in my last post? Are you ****ing blind? It seems to me that every year we hear 'this year is going to be better, we're going to insert fresh faces, last year was disappointing, yada, yada, yada'. Cannot management accept even a little of the blame?

DO YOU UNDERSTAND SO FAR?

OK, "The issues that Robin Regnier has ducked in his little forum"... I distinctly remember posting that the fact that no other possible candidates being named for the GM position spoke volumes. I distinctly remember that the discussion from which this was a part of had to do with "old-boys network". You did not address this adequately and instead tried to answer with a question. Poor form. I let it die, obviously a mistake. I am not a part of the sixers organisation, so I am not going to try and think up names for you. I cannot think up a list of the qualifications needed. However, I'm sure that you are privy to the qualification criteria that the sixers did use. Perhaps you could share it with us so I may make an informed reply.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND SO FAR?

Did I not offer the name Mastro? Did not Roy offer a few names? Did not Gregor offer names? Are you gonna tell me that not a single established player in the VMSL Premier league is worthy of a training camp invite? I'm not going to give a list, it would require too much time to thoroughly think out. But, I thought I had made my point.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND SO FAR?

BTW, when you speak of improving the off-field chemistry, does this mean the sixer's are looking for players that have potential for committing crimianl acts, or players that won't complain about false reports being made in the newspapers about their 'injuries'?

Also, could you please tell me where you got the information that Paul Shepherd was involved at Dundee for 4 years? Could you also enlighten me with your verification procedures for coming up with such stats?

~Regs.

By Alan Douglas (206.12.82.27 - 206.12.82.27) on Friday, April 16, 1999 - 02:19 am:

Chris,

First. I have acknowledged (as recently as my last post you will kindly note) that the players here have knowledge that I lack. And yes, fans and players will have different viewpoints, and different biases. But I think that’s a point that for the most part misses the mark. You see, I hear the exact same 86ers-bashing arguments coming from people who are soccer fans and not players. I also hear from high level players who do not bash the club at every opportunity or jump down my throat for having the audacity to speak well of Bob or Carl.

No Chris, what I see here is more a division between positive and negative outlooks. Burnsie and Regs have negative outlooks. I run across all sorts of people who are the same, most of whom are soccer fans. They complain and criticise. They are sceptical and cynical. All they see is what is wrong with something. Ask them what needs to be done to make it right, and often they’ll ignore you. That’s not their problem, they’ll say. Disagree with them, and they insult you. I’ve seen it over and over again. And not just in soccer.

I, on the other hand, am more of a positive person. I get behind things and show my support. Of the 86ers, of the national teams, of the VMSL, etc. That’s not to say I’m completely positive all the time, just as negative people aren’t negative all the time. Obviously there are many shades of grey.

Yes, Burnsie is a former 86er, and has on-the-field and dressing-room experience and insight that I’ll never have. And I respect that -- but only up to a point. His behind-the-scenes 86ers knowledge is now over seven years out of date. He also has a profound dislike and distrust of BL that I think taints his view of the 86ers organisation as a whole.

And let’s not forget that I am working for the 86ers right now (as opposed to seven years ago) and I have CURRENT behind-the-scenes knowledge and insight of the club’s front office operations that most players would never get. I think that has to count for a heck of a lot as well. Who do you think has more accurate up-to-date inside knowledge about training camp, the reserve team, or the YDP, me or Burnsie? You think about that. Maybe its frustrating as hell for them to put up with my attitudes when they think they know better, but that goes both ways, I assure you.

Second. OK, maybe I do take things too personally. Perhaps you can show me the error of my ways on this. As you know, Burnsie and I have had a few disagreements in this forum in the past, and he’s thrown a few “spears” in my direction: stuff like repeated updates on just how far up BL’s ass he thought I’d risen, repeated insults of the honesty and quality of my writing, a bunch of other minor slags, and of course the constant denigration of the club and people I work for and support. I tried not to take it personally, but I think it did provide a back-drop of antipathy and distrust. High defence mode, as you said.

Gradually though, I started to lose patience. When Burnsie suggested, for the second time no less, that I had a strong desire (wink wink) to shower with the players, I fired back with my own little shower-related crack. Tell me, was that not in the spirit of this forum? or was I taking things too personally?

Burnsie then complained that it was without wit and called me a dickhead with nothing intelligent to say who shouldn’t be posting here. Are you saying that wasn’t a personal attack and that he was well within the spirit of this forum? I then fired back a tit-for-tat reply, rebutting whatever senseless point he was trying to make about the reserve team (which he never responded to BTW), and then, figuring in for a penny in for a pound, decided to put in some proper pay-back for all those Lenarduzzi proctology remarks and insinuations about my sexuality. Obviously you think that my response was uncalled for, and that I had taken things too personally.

So is that a correct understanding of how you see it Chris? All of Burnsie’s attacks on me are fine and dandy, but my attacks on him aren’t? If so, then I’ll have to start calling you BJ for Burnsie and ask how far up your tongue goes!

Hey, I’m just trying to stay within the spirit of this forum, Chris. Don’t take it personally :-)

Cheers,
Alan/

By Alan Douglas (206.12.82.27 - 206.12.82.27) on Friday, April 16, 1999 - 02:30 am:

Regs,

Excellent. See how much better things are when you take the time to explain them. Please keep it up. It will avoid so many of these silly misunderstandings. I’ll number your points as they appear and try to respond to each quickly.

1) You lumped on-field chemistry in with performance, and then argued that his performance was not the problem. That totally ignores the question of on-field chemistry. You also don’t seem to understand that “chemistry” involves interactions with the other players and coaches. You seem to be arguing as if a player’s “chemistry” can be judged in total isolation based on how well he behaves himself.

2) You are confusing two issues here. WHY and WHEN. In your previous post you were talking about the WHY; now you are back to talking about the WHEN. The two are not generally correlated. You can argue the foolishness of the WHY all you want, but that gets you no closer to showing the foolishness of the WHEN. Can’t you see that?

As for the way that the WHEN affects the players, that’s a secondary consideration. The 86ers are generally going to make player moves guided by whatever is felt to be in the club’s best interests. And anyway, hasn’t your point been that they should release players near the end of training camp? Wouldn’t that leave the players even more high and dry?

3) Where do you get this nonsense? I’m not saying the players weren’t at all slighted. How the heck would I know one way or the other? I don’t listen in when Carl and an outgoing player have one of their little chats. Actually, they’re not always so little -- he and Dal talked for ages... I got fed up waiting and went home after 20 minutes. You know, that’s a heck of a lot more than many traded or cut players get from major league professional teams. You seem to have this bizarre notion, Regs, that team are supposed to keep their players on a pedestal at all times. Professional (and semi-professional) sports can be a cut-throat business. Players are moved around like cattle, often with no consideration. Wake up and smell the liniment.

4) You did not inadvertently “imply” that coaches atone during training camp. You stated it explicitly, and I just didn’t feel like letting you back-pedal your way out of the mistake so easily. No big deal though.

Carl has often accepted his share of blame for the team’s failures. I’ve heard him say many times that the final responsibility falls to him as coach. Even in the 1995 Yearbook coach’s message, which are usually chirpily optimistic and upbeat to the point of being nauseating, he wrote, “we all have to put our hands up and take our share of the blame for the last season and that includes me as head coach.”

5) See my reply to Chris above about negative outlooks. If I get a chance, I’ll try to get some info on exactly why Ringdal hired Bob.

6) You offered the name Mastro only as somebody that Dale had recently contacted. You didn’t pick that name, the 86ers did! And we’re not talking about Roy or Gregor. We’re talking about you. Their willingness to partake in a constructive and positive discussion only underscores your refusal to. Negative outlooks. See above.

Can you please define “established player” I gather you don’t think that John Sulentic, Rob Hall, or the Mori brothers are established. You’ve complained that the 86ers took too long before contacting Mastro, and he’s 27 I think you said. So is there roughly a peak age at which you think VMSL players are best suited to play for the 86ers? I’d take a ball-park figure.

7) Chemistry. See point 1)

Paul Shepherd. Dammit! Dammit! Dammit! That was my mistake. I misread his old bio which said that he spent time four seasons ago with the Dundee United youth and Reserve system. The bios usually state things in terms of what year they happened not how many years ago. Still, it was stupid carelessness on my part. Thanks for catching it, Regs. I owe you one. Gee, maybe you can be helpful after all :-)

Cheers,
Alan/

By Soccer Guy (206.12.82.77 - 206.12.82.77) on Friday, April 16, 1999 - 08:52 am:

Everyone,

That will be my last pro-86ers post in this forum until the end of the season. For you see, it is now time for me to suddenly and dramatically change my tactics (and handle). With just over two weeks to go to the start of the season I have to start worrying about the Weauxf Gawdz. I've taken them far too lightly in the past; indeed my years of valiantly supporting the 86ers on the internet exactly coincides with the team's change in fortunes in '94. This year I'm taking no chances, and will be using a healthy dose of anti-weauxfs. Thankfully, this forum is absolutely the perfect place for it. Regs, you're a godsend!

For those that don't know what I'm talking about (and I expect that'd be most of ya), just go out onto the internet and spend some time learning how this place actually works. You’d be surprised.

So let me start by saying that this is undoubtedly going to be the worst (and thankfully last) season in 86ers history. That idiot CV has driven away all our best players, and the Sounders are going to beat on us something awful right from the start. And if BL thinks Ajax is going to come here and save us then he's even more deluded than Burnsie thinks. This is going to be one ugly season. Gregor, I hope you're going to submit that movie of yours to the Worlds Most Amazing Train Wrecks, because that's what you're going to be filming. Man have I ever hitched my wagon to a sinking pile of turd. I just hope my pathetic little paycheck doesn't bounce once the fans realise how much they’ve been suckered and start staying away in droves.

So did anybody see that ManU-Arsenal game? Now that's how soccer is supposed to be played! Hell, a Canadian couldn’t score a goal like that in a billion years.

Grumble grumble,
Soccer Guy/

By Hanson (Mh) (207.194.18.135 - 207.194.18.135) on Friday, April 16, 1999 - 03:04 pm:

Soccer Guy,

The only thing I found wrong with Giggsy's winner against Arsenal was the celebration. That was an inordinate amount of chest hair. It looked like a wool sweater until I saw his back, which thankfully was hair free. I can just imagine Poor Gregor Young witnessing much of the same after Indo's Imperial Cup shocker. Eeewwwww......

-Mmmbop.

By Chocolate Abdul-Regsheem (Admin) (209.53.4.104 - 209.53.4.104) on Friday, April 16, 1999 - 05:54 pm:

Mr. Douglas, you are a 'classic'.

You warned everyone not to bring up your employment with the sixers. Dutch respected that in his post and referred to you as a fan. So what do you offer? For him to consider that you are employed by the 86ers and that should count greatly for your position. Absolutely ****ing brilliant!

In one of your very first responses to Dutch, you posted you would not waste your time with him on a particular point, and yet if you scroll up a bit, you'll see where you gave the forum a chastizing of Burnsie for using the exact same approach. Absolutely ****ing brilliant!

Very, very early this morning you offered to the forum a little tidbit about myself being a negative person. Not nice. Don't bother clarifying what you meant because that would constitute 'back-pedalling'. Then later this morning you offer to the forum what I can only describe as an ill attempt at being witty. Is this the form of positive outlook that I should ascribe too? Should I now post a thoroughly pro 86er rave? Absolutely ****ing brilliant!

A long time ago in this forum, you said that the 86ers should not be compared to other professional teams/leagues because of whatever reasons. Lately you have offered to the forum several examples to back up your claims using other professional teams/leagues. Absolutely ****ing brilliant!

Later today (in a part of the forum you clearly don't belong), you offered to the forum this...

Quote:
Gambler alley-basher?! You gotta be kidding me! Can't I say anything in this forum without you taking it the wrong way? All I did was point out how heavily stacked in the house's favour the Sports Action odds are.

Here's your original statement...

Quote:
...so by all means go spend your precious connect time bettering society in Gambler’s Alley. (I just hope that you and the rest of the gang know that the juice in a 3-game SA parlay is nearly 50%, and it gets worse the more games you play)

Read in it's entirety, am I still reading it the wrong way? Absolutely ****ing brilliant!

I will no longer refer to you as a muppet... it's obvious that you are in full control of everything you say. With that in mind, I will from now on address anything you say in a civil manner.

~Regs.

By Dutch Chocolate Abdul-Wahaab Big'unallah (Chris) (204.244.19.134 - 204.244.19.134) on Friday, April 16, 1999 - 06:07 pm:

Alan,

One point. You mention that you should be more up to date than Burnsie or other ex-players. Yes you probably are. But only from the management side. I would gues that many ex-players still get a steady feed of information from current players. I don't know for sure, it's just a guess, but it works this way in most sports that I've been involved with , and I can't see why it would be different in this case. I generally find the players perspective more interesting than the management. It is, shall we say, a purer reflection of an organization. THAT was my point. Is it still off the mark?

BTW, I was not sticking up for Mr. Burns (he requires no assistance from me). I was merely commenting on your presence in the forum and suggesting a third-party perspective. If you look back through the forum, many escalations in "spear-chucking" have followed one of your "fire and brimstone" retorts regarding the beloved sixers.

Cheers

Dutch

PS- would someone please inform me of any events or happenings regarding the Ajax program. Have not heard much up here except a wee blurb about 2 lads heading over.

By Robert Reed (Reedy) (216.66.137.68 - 216.66.137.68) on Friday, April 16, 1999 - 07:41 pm:

Alan,

Taking swipes at Gambler's Alley are you? I'm afraid that's my department.

I can assure you that all of us who participate in sports action (and any other adventures within the Alley) do so for the fun of it. Small-time wagers make any sporting event more exciting and, more importantly, result in massive bragging rights and humorous daggers amongst friends. But I guess one would need a friend to understand this concept.

Cheers.

Hanson,

Giggsy's celebration was brilliant. He had his shirt off before the ball hit the old onion bag. I guess you and all the other keepers out there would prefer that he crawl back on his hands and knees and apoligize to David Seaman for hammering the ball right through him...."I'm sorry Mister Seaman, I didn't mean to shoot so hard. Here...let me re-butter your gloves for you."

Cheers.

By Dutch Chocolate Abdul-Wahaab Big'unallah (Chris) (204.244.19.175 - 204.244.19.175) on Friday, April 16, 1999 - 08:19 pm:

Reedy, Hanson

It was a great strike, but did you see that laser one-timer from Alan (I won't move unless the ball comes to me) Shearer? What a beauty.

By Irish Chocolate Abdur-Burnsallah (Burnsie) (216.66.132.27 - 216.66.132.27) on Friday, April 16, 1999 - 10:05 pm:

Regsheem,

It is very hard to sit and read some items without replying. I am just making a note of all the wonderful points and will pick my time for another assault. This is the only way I know how to deal with people like this.

I can't waste time constantly responding to self-proclaimed no-it-all who really know nothing.
I will see you at the game tomorrow if it is not raining. I think I will bring wee Ali for good luck. I hope you guys win so I can enjoy a beer or two afterwards.

AS-SALAAMU ALAIKUM

By Chocolate Abdul-Regsheem (Admin) (209.53.4.104 - 209.53.4.104) on Friday, April 16, 1999 - 10:22 pm:

Irish,

Tell me about it... but I'm going to try my best to be positive. Don't be alarmed if you see me like this for the following couple of weeks though...

Bite your tongue, stay positive... he doesn't know any better.

Like I say, I'll do my best.

~Regs.

By Hanson (Mh) (207.194.25.199 - 207.194.25.199) on Saturday, April 17, 1999 - 12:40 am:

Reedy,

Hey, I take nothing away from that goal. Absolutely ****ing brilliant. They later said the run covered 70 yards, and that he took on and beat 4 Arsenal defenders. And the shot - Giggsy sure knows how to roof the ball - remember the key tying goal against Juve last week? Same deal, slamming the ball just under the crossbar.

And while the celebration was great, I was simply amazed at the amount of chest hair fair Ryan had under the Manchester shirt. If you ever score a goal that critical in that fashion, by all means tear the Peg blue from your chest and run wild. Just make sure to shave and wax first, cuz there's nothing like a footlong treasure trail to ruin a perfectly good celebration.

Dutch,

Saw the Shearer strike. N'Castle is a fun team to watch - Temouri Ketsbaia (sp?) is a treat. I think Alan would cringe if he had to solely rely on Noberto "Watch me run down the touchline" Solano for all his through balls. Cheers,

Mmmbop

By Chocolate Abdul-Regsheem (Admin) (209.53.4.104 - 209.53.4.104) on Saturday, April 17, 1999 - 12:48 am:

Can I KINDLY direct you lads to make up a new topic somewhere else... this area is for Vancouver's professional soccer team.

Thank you.

~Regs.

PS. Hanson, you forgot to format a sentence in red... that's OK, a positive try overall. Keep it up ;-)

By Alan Douglas (206.12.82.70 - 206.12.82.70) on Sunday, April 18, 1999 - 09:07 am:

Regs, perhaps we’re both classics :-)

Let me try to clarify a few things.

1) I warned/asked people to stop attributing my pro-86ers bias to the fact that I am employed by the club. Any pro-86ers bias I have shown in this forum is due to my being a fan, not because I am an employee. However, I never asked anyone to disregard my knowledge or insight into 86ers operations, or to look upon me as nothing more than a fan.

2) I told Chris I wouldn’t waste my time arguing BL’s merits as a player with him IF (note the conditional) he was going to take the “North Americans were shite” approach. I was arguing that BL was one of the top North American players in the NASL, but if Chris is going to make a blanket generalisation about all NA players, then discussion about a particular NA player is pointless.

3) No ill attempt at being witty, Regs. It was an anti-weuxf. I suggest you get used to it, because you’ll be seeing a lot more of them. (if you’d like me to explain weuxfing, anti-weuxfing, and the whole Church of Weuxf philosophy, I suppose I can). Thanks though for pointing out the irony in terms of the positive/negative issue. I’d missed that, and can see how the whole thing might have left you shaking your head.

4) The earlier discussion on major league teams had to do with how high the bar should be set for determining whether or not clubs like the 86ers are “professional”. My point was that within the context of Canadian soccer, using big money professional teams to establish the standard was unfair. I never meant to state or imply that comparisons should never be made between the 86ers and major league teams. Obviously they have much that is common and much that is not, and such comparisons can be very valuable. I simply don’t think they should form the basis of determining whether or not the 86ers are to be called “professional”

5) Yes, I think you are still reading it the wrong way!

What exactly do you find objectionable? Do you think the term “bettering society” was used facetiously? Well it wasn’t. I chose it:

a) because of the play on words (betting/bettering); and

b) because it’s perfectly true -- the money from that 50% juice goes towards funding amateur sports!

Now I admit that was a little on the subtle side, so in retrospect perhaps I did overreact to your reaction. Once you put the assault rifle on auto-fire, it’s kinda hard to lay off the trigger :-)

And as always, I appreciate the return to civility.

Cheers,
Alan/

By Alan Douglas (206.12.82.70 - 206.12.82.70) on Sunday, April 18, 1999 - 09:29 am:

Chris,

[I’m going to have make a brief departure from my new anti-weauxfing stance to reply properly]

Yes, I’m sure that Burnsie and other players do hear things from still other players, and so on. I don’t discount that. However, my experience has been that by the time this information gets back to me, 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th hand, it often bears little resemblance to the actual events. Accounts tend to get muddled over time, and in going from one person to another. It’s only natural. I can’t accept as gospel every 86ers story that I hear, when a number that I’ve heard have contradicted the known facts.

And quite often, I never even hear the story, only the residue of distrust and anger left behind. Players seem reluctant to share these 86ers horror stories -- fair enough, I think that shows integrity. But I don’t like the way they leave them hanging like daggers in the air, circling over my head, threatening to drop but never doing so. One player spoke of Carl’s hypocritical coaching decisions -- I asked, nicely and sincerely, for examples (emailed if necessary) and heard nothing. Another promised he’d send a David Norman/BL horror story by email at request -- I requested, got nothing. There have been hints of other things: “NOW SHEPS NOW”, and a Reedy reference letter. Nothing.

How am I supposed to judge the merits of things that I don’t even hear? Sure, they can say “if you only knew what I know,” but am I supposed to just trust them every time? Looking at this in reverse, if I were to say “there are great things going on with the 86ers, but I’m not allowed to talk about it” do you think they would trust me?! How many people here trusted me when I kept saying that I had seen the YDP’s budget and that it wasn’t making money?

In fact, that’s another issue worth mentioning. The first big 86ers argument I got into here was over the YDP. People here, players included, kept insisting that it had to be a cash-grab, yet I had the budget sitting right in front of me showing that it breaks even. That was my first exposure to the great “insight” of the players -- they’re telling me it’s night when the sun is shining right in my face!

But don’t get me wrong. I don’t totally discount their stories (or hints of stories) either. I like to keep my eyes and ears open, and be vigilant of any 86ers wrongdoing. And there are some things that I’ve seen in my time with the 86ers that I don’t like or agree with. But so far they’ve been so utterly minor that they haven’t given me any great pause. Maybe that will change. I’m not some pie-eyed 86ers-nut who thinks everything is wonderful and the club can do no wrong. But overall, I think their intentions are honourable and they deserve better than to be slagged at every turn.

Finally, let me just say that there are always going to be differences of opinions here, and I am always open to hearing opposing views. But crude character assassination and knee-jerk reactions don’t impress me. A well considered and presented argument does.

Re: Ajax
There is some very good news on the Ajax front. Expect an 86ers news release in the next few days (we’re just waiting for Ajax to fax through some official info).

Locally, there is also some very unfortunate news on the YDP front. There’s a big meeting today, and I hope to be able to go public following that.

Cheers,
Alan/

By Alan Douglas (206.12.82.70 - 206.12.82.70) on Sunday, April 18, 1999 - 09:35 am:

Roy,
I’ve got to hand it to you. Kevin Coris looked very good playing for the 86ers yesterday. I think he’s got a spot on the reserves if he wants it.

Quick question, what is the preferred/correct name for the U-21’s now:

SFC Pegasus, Surrey FC Pegasus, or Surrey Pegasus FC

Reedy,
Thanks. That’s an excellent point about SA. I had actually intended to say very much the same thing myself, but forgot.

Cheers,
Alan/

By McManus (Admin) (209.53.4.104 - 209.53.4.104) on Sunday, April 18, 1999 - 10:45 am:

Mr. Douglas,

You are confused. You are a 'classic'. After my display yesterday, I could be considered by some, a 'class act'. I hope we are clear on that now.

Some positive issues...

Trust. Sixer management deserve it. It is the players only that have been busted on petty thefts. A member of the management team has passed tests using creative measures which is fine 'cause everyone else has.

Chemistry. Sixer management are very good evaluating it. Good decision on stripping captain duties from one long time player to motivate another.

Professional. Yes, in the context of Canadian soccer, the 86ers are very professional. Nothing else compares.

Cash Grab. Of course the balance is break even. The 86ers are a professional team, and that is what they aspire to. Not a single member of the 86ers is being paid for any part of the YDP program. All revenues coming in are gobbled up by field fees, balls, and cones. These are huge expenditures.

Media Relations. Very positive. Not a negative word nor story to be found, despite protestations to the contrary.

Some negative issues (I'm trying, but the process is a long, hard journey)...

Anti-Weauxfing. [SEE POSTIVE ISSUES ABOVE].

Blanket Generalization. Metro-heads, negative people, Gambler's Alley, discussing w/o daggers.

That's it for negative stuff.

~Regs.

PS. How could you forget you have not a friend? ;-)

By Schillinger (Reedy) (216.66.137.18 - 216.66.137.18) on Sunday, April 18, 1999 - 10:48 am:

Alan,

You mentioned a Reedy reference letter. Just to set the record straight, I asked Carl if I could use him as a reference on my resume and he happily obliged.

Someone made the remark on this forum something to the effect of, "C'mon Reedy, you got your reference letter...start the slagging." Well, I don't really have anything bad to say about Carl personally. We get along just fine.

As for slagging Bobby, I already posted my limited opinion of him. I've never been a part of a team in which he was the coach or the manager. All I said was that once his soccer career ends he should consider a career in politics. The public love this guy and he's mastered the art of dealing with the media. Are these bad qualities? Not in my opinion.

But this is not to suggest that I agree with everything that has taken place with the sixers and the national team. On the contrary, I tend to side with most of the others on this forum in that there have been several players that have been wrongly roasted by both coaches. It's just that I wasn't one of them.

My personal attacks on the coaches would have to be limited to Tony Waiters. I'm not sure if you're a part of his supporter's club as well, but this is not a good coach in my humble opinion. His favorite answer to any question was, "Soccer is a game of opinions..." Well, that's great Tony, unless your opinions are absolutely shocking.

By SYSA/SFC (Roy) (206.108.197.92 - 206.108.197.92) on Sunday, April 18, 1999 - 06:24 pm:

Alan
The official name was SFC Pegasus U21's. The most important part was PEGASUS.
As for Kevin Coris he was discouraged with soccer after playing FVSL Premier men's two years ago and did not play at all last year. He answered a call from a team manager who had always treated him with class and respect and came out to play.
Of the 52 League goals the U21 Pegasus team scored Kevin potted 27, add 10 more in post season plus 6 in the Labor Day Metro Ford Tournament, he has come back with gusto (he tries to emulate his idol RR on Peg). But will he be assigned only to the Reserves?

Reedy
Nice header yesterday!!

Regs
I heard you were taking it easy on the Sapperton Keeper.

When did Higgsy learn to take a "punch" like that?

RM

By McManus (Admin) (209.53.4.104 - 209.53.4.104) on Sunday, April 18, 1999 - 06:28 pm:

Roy,

You heard correct, but surely you must have come to the same conclusion all on your own. Yes?

~Regs.

By SYSA/SFC (Roy) (206.108.197.136 - 206.108.197.136) on Sunday, April 18, 1999 - 09:33 pm:

Regs
I knew that you had more class than to score a meaningless goal on a shattered keeper who had given up 5.
Besides isn't the keeper a good mate of yours?

Are you on for the U21's in the Development League?

RM

By Schillinger (Reedy) (142.232.89.138 - 142.232.89.138) on Tuesday, April 27, 1999 - 10:12 am:

Something interesting is about to happen with the sixers. I've been told by a reliable source that the sixers felt certain that Indo would be knocked out by Westside this past weekend. This would free up Didar to play this coming weekend when the season starts. Didn't happen. The implications are pretty huge from Indo's point of view as they simply don't have another keeper. So the question becomes will the sixers allow Didar to finish his great run with Indo or will they prod him into signing? In the end it will be Didar's decision, but really he's just filling in for Paul Sheps until he returns from indoor (no offense Didar, I'm not rating him over you or vice versa. It's just that he'll get the nod and everybody knows that).

From my experience it seems logical for Didar to finish the run with Indo. I've been told that he's been slighted by the sixers in the past and I believe missing out on the cup run with his mates will be regretted in the long run. Again, I'm speaking from experience.

Let us know when you make the decision, Didar. I've got some predictions to make.

By Martin Rose (Martin) (207.194.147.170 - 207.194.147.170) on Tuesday, April 27, 1999 - 10:36 am:

Paul Shepherd should now be available for the home opener now that Edmonton have been eliminated from the NPSL playoffs. However based on his current form Didar could finally break through and become the starting keeper this year.
Paul Shepherd never impressed me between the sticks for the 86ers before or for the Olympic side (Jim Larkin was easily the better of the two). Perhaps the pinball soccer in the Indoor league has sharpened him up a bit though.

Marty

By gilly (207.23.221.204 - 207.23.221.204) on Tuesday, April 27, 1999 - 02:07 pm:

Reedy,

Typical sixer crap!! It's really, really too bad we didn't get knocked out, so D could play for peanuts in the season opener. D has had an amazing season with us and is deserving of any chance he gets with the sixers. If the sixers do sign him to a contract, none of this game by game bullshit where if he plays he gets so $20 and if he starts he gets $30, D has a decision to make because the sixers probably won't release him for Victoria. They wouldn't release JJ for the Imperial Cup and he's under contract. Regardless, let the 86er executive brain-trust make their decision and we'll live with any decision D makes. But, Reedy I think we both know what D's thinking, don't we D!!

By KAAOS (24.113.31.227 - 24.113.31.227) on Tuesday, April 27, 1999 - 05:12 pm:

Gilly
Why can`t Didar sign an amature contract for the first part of the season?I know,for sure, it has been done in the past,ask me who! Then, after your cup run he could be signed to a "pro" contract.The amount of money that is involved just about covers a normal person`s expenses anyway.That way he
should be able to play for you `till May 9th.AS for Didars ability,when he is interested,as he seems to be just now,there just isn`t anyone iv`e seen, any better, if the powers that be show, confidence in him, he can certainly do the job.
Cheers Keith

By Ryan O'Reilly (Burnsie) (216.66.135.118 - 216.66.135.118) on Tuesday, April 27, 1999 - 09:02 pm:

Gilly,

You must persuad Didar to play for you on the weekend. These opportunities are few and far between. The 86ers will give him the usual run around and pay the shit that they do. You guys have had a great run lately and it would be a shame to let our so called professional team ruin this opportunity. Good luck this weekend.

Didar,
Play in Victoria. I think you will end up regreting it in the long run. Lenarduzzi has nothing to offer anyone. That is from personal experience.

AS-SALAAMU ALAIKUM

By McManus (Admin) (209.53.4.104 - 209.53.4.104) on Wednesday, April 28, 1999 - 12:54 pm:

WOW!!!!

Did anyone catch how much Bart Chouffer (sp?) made last year as director of the YDP program?...

$60,000!!!!!!

Yep, nobody was making any money off the program ;-)

What were the sixers thinking in giving a contract that large in the first place? Did they honestly believe he would accept a 30% cut now? Something tells me that this Ajax thing isn't going to be all it's been billed.

~Regs.

By Milan @ Croatia SC (209.53.5.53 - 209.53.5.53) on Wednesday, April 28, 1999 - 02:17 pm:

Regs -

Considering how little actual 86er players (and Directors of Communication :) make I was surprised also. However I felt it was good to see a Canadian soccer organization spending money on youth coaching. I don't know Bart Choufer(sp?) so I don't know if they got their money's worth - but if they're asking for a 30% cut then I guess that speaks for itself.

ml

By SYSA/SFC (Roy) (209.52.188.42 - 209.52.188.42) on Wednesday, April 28, 1999 - 04:34 pm:

Lets see!!!
A U13 Gold coach is worth $60,000 (ok $42000 after cuts) then what is Brad Higgs worth. Men's Premier Coach ought to draw $100,000.00++

Watch for Ajit Braich, former SFC Tech Director to sign on for the $42,000.00. Bet you it was the reason for the 30% drop in pay. Ajit will work for that. It is the rate Tom McManus has for operating the Regional Center on the North Shore.

Regs
Bart did it for the kids not the money, that is why he wouldn't accept the drop. Funny I heard he was out three weeks ago when he was in Holland as Ajax's guest.

RM

By Ryan O'Reilly (Burnsie) (216.66.136.53 - 216.66.136.53) on Wednesday, April 28, 1999 - 10:10 pm:

McManus,

Bart asked me two years ago if I was interested in helping him run and under 14 team in Tsawwassen. There was no money involved at that time but if I had gone through with the move, and Bart was pleased with our partnership , I might be actually working for Bobby/Ajax right now. Kinda ironic, isn't it ? Obviously, this would be highly unlikely but when you're dealing with the sixers you never know. Bart subbed for me last year and our discussion was pretty serious regarding this issue. As you stated, it is good to see someone make more than the entire 86ers roster. Great budgeting.

Alan,
Where are you now ? Can you answer this ludicrous amount ? Good for Bart, bad for 86ers. Me see someone making a profit, yet you were convinced no one was making money. HHHHHHHHHMMMMMMMMMM. This is as much as I will say to Mr. Douglas at this point. I am looking forward to an answer. Maybe Mr. Douglas had to take a big pay cut to help pay Bart. I guess all things are not that bad.

AAAhhhhh Euuu

Burnsie

By Regs (Admin) (209.53.56.44 - 209.53.56.44) on Wednesday, May 19, 1999 - 03:20 pm:

Quiet time on the Sixers front... 0-2, big match on Friday, I bet they come out on fire in lew of their new full-time coach ;-)

Speaking of which, I find it odd that every media outlet known has published stories on Carl's retirement and yet, no mention of it on the official Sixer web site... there's also no mention of the two new signings. How hard can it be to convert a press release into HTML format?

Come on Alan, we know you're not spending your time in here thinking up witty retorts ;-)

~Regs.

By Irish Chocolate (Burnsie) (216.66.134.105 - 216.66.134.105) on Thursday, May 20, 1999 - 12:07 am:

Puppet,

Do your ****ing job. Sorry, I couldn't resist.

By Martin Rose (Martin) (207.194.146.20 - 207.194.146.20) on Thursday, May 20, 1999 - 03:05 pm:

I wonder if the article Dan Stinson did in the Vancouver Sun about Bruce Miller is a round about way of bringing up his name as a possible replacement for Carl. Obviously Carl is feeling the heat a little bit of heat right now and this guy has coached the NPSL's Cleveland Crunch to several titles. He is also from Vancouver (another old Grandview Legion connection a la Lenarduzzi and Mitchell). Carl could be getting the old retirement from playing thing out of the way because he knows that if he gets let go by the 86ers midseason there would be no formal recognition of his longtime service.

This is, of course, a theory with no basis in fact...but Stinson's article somehow fits together with the recent events rather nicely. This Miller guy has been successfully coaching North American professional soccer for years. Why only now is he being interviewed by Stinson (who I doubt thought of it himself)? The article doesn't really have much of a point beyond the Sun saying that he exists. You know that other than Dale Mitchell there isn't anyone else high profile enough for Lenarduzzi to hire as Valentine's replacement.

Perhaps Lenarduzzi planted the story with Stinson to light a fire under Carl's ass.

Here is the URL of the article...

http://www.vancouversun.com/newsite/sports/2622935.html

Marty

By Gregor Young (Gregor) (207.194.147.94 - 207.194.147.94) on Thursday, May 20, 1999 - 10:34 pm:

Marty,

I agree that story stuck out like a sore thumb. I don't know about Bob getting Dan to write it to light a fire under Carl but there's a few odd things about it. I know Carl has a very good relationship with the Cleveland franchise and so he probably knows Bruce Miller quite well. He might have been in town visiting.

As for a lack of successors should Carl ever be given the boot, I think there would be an onslaught of candidates popping out of the woodwork. I don't think they're looking at replacing Carl but Minnesota is 4-1 and if they beat us we're 0-3 and it starts to look like a big hole for a team that has title aspirations.

By Another SFC guy (Matty) (216.66.138.85 - 216.66.138.85) on Sunday, May 23, 1999 - 08:46 pm:

I don't know about the rest of you, but I have talked to others who were at the Canada/Mexico & 86ers doubleheader on Friday, and they share my opinion that the women's game was a better overall game than the sixers? If Didar didn't stand on his head against the first two shooters, we would be sitting 0 and 3............would Carl then be looking at forced retirement from coaching to go along with the end to his playing days? By the way, is it just me, or did last years back line of Samuel, Sumner, and Macdonald look much better than Carl's "new look" but younger lads on the back end?
So many questions, so little patience for the sixers!
Matty

By Sheps (Imafatbastard) (209.52.121.68 - 209.52.121.68) on Monday, May 24, 1999 - 10:09 am:

Just a little point,

If didar din't **** up the first goal, then the sixers would have all the points for a proper win. Where's our buddy Alan Dickhead.

By Gregor Young (Gregor) (209.52.76.98 - 209.52.76.98) on Monday, May 24, 1999 - 10:17 am:

And a completely unbiased little point at that, right Sheps?

By Sheps (Imafatbastard) (204.244.158.193 - 204.244.158.193) on Tuesday, May 25, 1999 - 09:45 am:

correct Mr.Young!!!!

By Regs (Admin) (209.53.56.44 - 209.53.56.44) on Wednesday, May 26, 1999 - 03:36 pm:

Maybe you should introduce yourself on Sunday, Sheps?

~Regs.

By Gregor Young (Gregor) (207.194.147.38 - 207.194.147.38) on Thursday, June 3, 1999 - 11:29 pm:

Just got back from the Sixers game v Seattle tonight. Not only was the game itself entertaining and well played but the Carlsberg Croats (aka the John Sulentic Fan Club) have transformed the atmosphere there into something that actually feels like atmosphere. A dozen or so of them have managed to get the entire crowd buzzing and by the end had about 100 people down behind the net joining them in raucous chants and abuse directly at the Seattle keeper Burpa and defender Bernie James.

I've can't remember there being as much crowd interest at a Sixers game. Best of all they were told not to light flares but they did anyways when the Sixers scored. I've long believed that for the Sixers to succeed they need the support of fans like that: people who play themselves and are a bit rabid in their support. I've never thought that it's the type of entertainment you can get parents, en masse, to bring their under 11 kids too. If other clubs or groups of fans take their cue from these guys I really think it could change dramatically not only the size of the crowds at the game but also change the atmosphere completely so that if feels like people really care whether the team wins or loses.

By SYSA/SFC (Roy) (207.102.216.88 - 207.102.216.88) on Friday, June 4, 1999 - 06:39 am:

Gregor

Interesting post considering the Sixers drew the smallest crowd in Club history (2700) with at least 500 free tickets given out.

Maybe if the parents and under 11 kids started to attend they might survive.

RM

By Gregor Young (Gregor) (207.194.147.28 - 207.194.147.28) on Friday, June 4, 1999 - 12:44 pm:

Yes, it was their smallest crowd ever and it's often hard to get an accurate take on what the actual "paid" attendance is, but my point, still, is that all efforts, especially in the last few years, have gone into getting kids to come to the games. Naturally this means their parents will for the most part have to escort them. I think that this is not working and that they would be better served trying to get the demographic represented by the guys there last night chanting away and lighting flares.

By Iron Dumptyanchor (Burnsie) (216.66.134.116 - 216.66.134.116) on Friday, June 4, 1999 - 08:50 pm:

Gregor,

We really are beating a dead horse. The interest is not there. I am glad that there were some fans that 'cared' but if Sulentic was not playing, they would not be there. If he gets benched, will the fans continue their boisterous antics ? It is a matter of time before the Sixer's are an ex A League franchise. I hope I am wrong for some of the kids around who truly believe the 86ers are a professional team.

There might be a spot for you on Ireland's sidelines if you are interested in coaching/playing with Iron Dumpty. You definitely qualify on the 2 guinness theory.

Cheers

Iron Anchordumpty

By Jack T. Lad (Reedy) (216.66.137.28 - 216.66.137.28) on Friday, June 11, 1999 - 08:11 pm:

Forum, this is long but good for a laugh or two...Where is Alan D.?????

Bitter Chris Clarke blasts 86ers' Valentine

The Vancouver Sun

Dan Stinson Vancouver Sun

"In any other country in the world, if a coach hasn't won anything after six years, he'd be gone. But Carl won't be fired because he's a good friend of Bob Lenarduzzi. " - Chris Clarke

A bitter Chris Clarke said Thursday "the Vancouver 86ers will never win anything as long as Carl Valentine is in charge," and went on to criticize the head coach for "favouring older, more experienced players on the team at the expense of younger players."

Clarke, a 21-year-old striker, and his older brother Ian, a midfielder, were released by Valentine late Wednesday after both had spent four seasons in the 86ers' organization.

Valentine said the Clarke brothers were released "because I didn't think they would get ample opportunity to play with the squad we have this year," adding he rates new players like striker Eduardo Sebrango and midfielders John Sulentic and Martin Nash ahead of the Clarkes in their positions.

But it was clear in a telephone interview that both Clarkes are bitter. Chris Clarke, who has played 25 games with the 86ers over four seasons but only 15 minutes as a substitute this year, directed most of his criticism at Valentine.

"I've paid my dues every year since joining the 86ers in 1996," he said. "I think I've made progress as a player every year, but if you're not a starter after four years, it's time to move on. But I'm not blaming myself. If Carl doesn't see me in his plans, maybe it's time for him to move on."

Chris Clarke, who has seven goals and three assists in his 86ers' career, said Valentine's "double standard" in his treatment of players has resulted in "many good players" leaving the team in recent years. He cited striker Sipho Sibiya and midfielder Giuliano Oliviero as examples. Both left the 86ers in the mid-'90s and signed with the Montreal Impact.

"Vancouver could have been such a good team over the last few years," Chris Clarke said. "But at least five or six players left because they couldn't get along with the coach. A lot of it comes down to Carl's double standard of how he treats players. If some of the older guys miss practice, it's an okay thing. They have the leeway. But the younger guys get punished under the same circumstances.

"I missed one practice because of an injury last year and I was left off the roster for a road trip. The younger guys on the team haven't been getting the same respect that Carl shows to the older guys."

Noting that Valentine is now in his sixth season as head coach, Chris Clarke said: "In any other country in the world, if a coach hasn't won anything after six years, he'd be gone. But Carl won't be fired because he's a good friend of [86ers' general manager] Bob Lenarduzzi. They're life-long pals, so don't look for any change in the coaching department."

Said Lenarduzzi: "My response to that is that it doesn't justify a response. Full stop. It's laughable."

Ian Clarke, 24, wasn't as critical of Valentine, but said he was asked to play an unfamiliar defensive role in midfield when he was brought into the first team on a regular basis last season. He has two goals and two assists in 51 career games with the 86ers.

"I came into the team as a striker, but Carl moved me to midfield under a 3-5-2 system where I was asked to concentrate on being a defensive player," he said. "When I finally learned to defend, my playing time was cut back drastically. I was playing out of position. My natural position has always been as an attacking player."

Ian Clarke also said Valentine does not treat every 86er equally.

"The younger guys haven't been getting the same respect as the guys who have been around a while," he said.

Valentine challenged the charges.

"He [Chris Clarke] is obviously hurting and he's trying to get back at me," Valentine said. "I don't have to react to a comment that I favour older players over younger guys. Just look at our roster last season, when we were the youngest team in the league, and again this year. I've played young players like Alfredo Valente [18], Johnny Sulentic [19] and Jason Jordan [21] regularly. They've played ahead of the Clarkes because, quite frankly, I rate them as better players."

Valentine noted that Chris Clarke was a starting striker in the 86ers' playoff game against the San Diego Flash last September.

"Chris was selected ahead of Domenic Mobilio and that may have been a mistake," Valentine said. "Chris played for about an hour, we were down 3-1, and then I had to bring Dom into the team."

But Valentine did not deny that some 86ers are treated differently than younger players.

"I respect every player," he said. "But if we're talking about guys like Domenic and [centre back] Steve MacDonald, then yes, they do get a little more consideration. I don't apologize for that. They've been with the team every year for the last 13 years."

Graduates of the Coquitlam Metro Ford youth soccer system, the Clarkes are hoping to be picked up by the Toronto Lynx, the A-League's only other Canadian team this season. Chris Clarke said he will be talking to Lynx head coach Peter Pinizzotto early next week.

By Coach K (Kaaos) (24.113.15.238 - 24.113.15.238) on Friday, June 11, 1999 - 08:37 pm:

Reedy
Wonder if Gregor got any of the Clarkes, on film,that certainly constitutes a "Blast with the 86`s"
keith.

By Jack T. Lad (Reedy) (216.66.137.5 - 216.66.137.5) on Friday, June 11, 1999 - 09:22 pm:

Coach K.,

What are your thoughts on the job Carl has done over the last six years? The Clarkes do have somewhat of a point in that any other professional sports team would probably sack the coach of such a record. I would argue that the sixers are barely a professional team, however, having Carl as the coach does add some prestige to the team considering his past successes and familiarity with the public (poor record or not). What other soccer figure would be right for the job? Perhaps Coach K.????? Higgs??? I fancy Dale Mitchell to take over the team at some point.

Cheers.

By Gregor Young (Gregor) (207.194.147.48 - 207.194.147.48) on Friday, June 11, 1999 - 10:53 pm:

I do have footage of the Clarkes. It's in the dressing room before the season opener and they were in a pretty good mood. In fact they were the only ones mugging for the camera and having a laugh ... always easier to do when you're on the bench.

By Coach K (Kaaos) (24.113.15.238 - 24.113.15.238) on Saturday, June 12, 1999 - 07:57 am:

Reedy
As odd as this may sound I think that, this year is the one that Carl has decided to put his own, personal stamp,on the 86`s,it`s not anything anyone has said,to me, it is more the players he is going with, a blend of youngsters and as many "name players" as can be afforded, it must be very difficult,working within the miniscule budget they have.I also believe that he is caught in a transition period,in b.c about 5 yrs ago a lot of coaches got fed up with the "lump it up the field" route one soccer,and swung the pendulum the other way,teaching more skills,a more controlled possesion approach, to their games,this was done,mostly, in the youth ranks and Carl is the recipient of some of those youngsters,who look very good,on the ball,but,in my mind lack the proper vision, and timing on when and where to get the ball into the dangerous areas,the trick,of course, is to find the proper blend of players,who can fit into the system of play,that he chooses.I don`t know if he has a particular system,that he prefers,seems to me that he looks more at the individual player than at the team concept.Look this is a very simple game,set out your table,on how you want to play, then sign the players that can do it.Up to now he has had varying(sp)success. It is true that most "pro" teams,with the lack of silverware,in their trophy case,would have sacked the coach,long ago, but, Canadians are a forgiving lot(exept on this forum)and the ownership(God bless `em) dont know too much about the game.I have a feeling that if Carl dosn`t find success,this year,he may well sack himself and my money would be on Dale to take over,but I would love to see Bruce Twalmley and his hoppo Chris Bennett,in there.
Cheers Keith.

By Another MF player (Jones) (207.34.182.100 - 207.34.182.100) on Saturday, July 17, 1999 - 01:26 pm:

Forum,

No one has talked about the 86ers latest win streak of the past few weeks or the latest signings of Antonio Fonseca from Portugal and Carmen D'Onofrio. Obviously Fonseca must be a quality player and can only help the club. Is this a real find by Bobby and his 86ers scouting brass or is another one of those occurrences of the player falling into their laps once again like the Cuban? I don't know what Carmen is like as a player. He's played indoors for the past few years with Edmonton with Alfredo and Chris Clarke. I'm sure he's a good player. With no disrespect to either of the two, if the 86ers continue to bring in talent from outside then how are the players on that developmental team in Abbottsford ever going to get a chance to play? With injuries and national team commitments this is the time to test this young players, isn't it? Both these players cannot be cheap so it would be interesting to see how much money is being invested in these two.

Martin Nash is off to Bolton in the English First Division. The 86ers reportedly get money in return if he makes it in some form of transfer deal. Is this the first of its kind for them? They must have gotten somewhere near $100 000 for the transfer of Gregor to Edmonton, Winnipeg or Westside, didn't they? If it is the first time than why don't they send more players abroad or to the MLS for possible transfer money. Could Fonseca be here for the same reason? If the MLS is paying for players then Seattle must be turning a wee bit of a profit. There has been a two (I think) that have been taken by MLS teams. If that is the case then why would they let Ollie, their best player (arguably) in recent years, to go to Seattle and get picked up?

By Another MF player (Jones) (207.34.182.100 - 207.34.182.100) on Saturday, July 17, 1999 - 01:34 pm:

If this is the growing trend for the 86ers and such to receive money from bigger clubs than shouldn't the organizations that produce this talent get some form of kickback as well? If Shawn Murphy follows the same route as Nashy, than should Peg/SFC get a percentage for producing him?

Development would become a huge factor in our league and may force players like myself, Regs and Reedy (not that I am putting myself in these fine gentlemens class) to be pushed out of the league by now because we're being overlooked. Is this a good thing? Would the level of play go down? (Not if I left but maybe the others)

By Gregor Young (Gregor) (209.52.76.50 - 209.52.76.50) on Saturday, July 17, 1999 - 07:11 pm:

Jonesy,

It's not that simple. When you sign to play in the VMSL you sign a VMSL registration. There is nothing tieing you to MF as there is nothing that makes me the property of Westside. This lets players change teams mid-season if they want.

While the VMSL may be able to argue that they are due a cut of any transfer they would have to have that incorporated into the agreements that players sign and they would have a hard time appropriating a player's professional rights when they are signing people to play in an amateur league.

As I started in Edmonton (and Calgary) before coming the 86ers they didn't get any money. Rather they had to pay the 100 000 to get me...

As for outside players being brought in at the expense of locals, I've always praised the 86ers for being able to incorporate so many locally developed players into their squad, but the bottom line is you have to be good enough. It is a professional atmosphere: the best play while the others watch regardless of whether you grew up in North Van or Lisbon.

If people want to knock the 86ers for bringing in quality players (and I think Sebrango is absolutely top notch) they should look around at pretty much every other A-League team and they'll see that none of the half decent teams have as many local players signed.

By Martin Rose (Martin) (159.33.2.50 - 159.33.2.50) on Monday, July 19, 1999 - 07:44 am:

Just one small correction to Gregor's post above.
Players in the VMSL or any other BCSA affliated league sign BCSA registration forms. There is no such thing as a VMSL player registration form. So even the league has no legal claim whatsoever to a fee for any players. In fact I believe FIFA rules state that there can be no fee charged for any player registered as an amateur.

I do believe Jonesy's trickle down theory could have some effect. The best way to ensure that the amateur or youth teams are compensated is to negotiate that into contracts signed by these player and the 86ers in the same fashion the 86ers had it written in for Nash.

but I think that amateur/youth to professional thing could make too complicated. The best thing would be for the 86ers to create a trust of some other kind of fund that would created from a percentage of any transfer fee of a player developed in BC and have that money distributed in grants to local clubs that wish to improve facilities or help pay for coaches.

Marty

By Coach K (Kaaos) (24.113.15.238 - 24.113.15.238) on Tuesday, July 20, 1999 - 08:51 am:

Marty
Interesting to hear the legalities,as a sidebar when Oliver was 18 we secured a proffessional contract with Port Vale and when we asked for the CSA release Kevin Pipe wrote to John Rudge,the Port Vale Mgr,demanding a 10,000 dollar fee because of all the time and money they had spent on developing him,it nearly scotched the deal and it wasn`t untill I threatened all kinds of legal action that they gave the release,is it any wonder we think what we do think about these mandarins in the CSA,so, following Pipes logic maybe we should get some loot for developing the players of the future but it should be going to the youth soccer in order to get the better coaches at that level, that would probably mean paying them, a bad thing a good thing? What does everyone think?
Cheers Keith.

By Flyweight (Reedy) (216.66.137.2 - 216.66.137.2) on Tuesday, July 20, 1999 - 01:57 pm:

Coach K,

Before we start paying the youth coaches we have to start training them. In my opinion, the majority of youth soccer coaches continues to be the parents that start out by helping out their son or daughter's team. They don't know all that much about the game and they would really be more suited for a manager role. To start paying them would be insane, but to start training them would be productive.

Let's be honest, Kevin Pipe wanted that money to augment the CSA old boy's expense account. To suggest that he or the CSA had anything to do with developing Ollie is ridiculous. You're more deserving of that coin than any of them.

By Gregor Young (Gregor) (209.52.76.2 - 209.52.76.2) on Tuesday, August 10, 1999 - 10:24 pm:

http://www.canadakicks.com/news/news911.htm

Interesting story on Canadakicks.com about the Ajax/86ers deal being dead and how it seems Bart may have had the last laugh.

Ajax bought an interest in a successful Ghanian team this summer so who knows if and how that may affect their plans for Vancouver. Here's the article on it:

ACCRA (June 19, 1999 1:19 a.m. EDT
http://www.sportserver.com) - Ghanaian soccer powerhouse
the Ashanti Goldfields signed a partnership agreement
Friday with Dutch master Ajax for the development of the
game in the African country.

Ajax chairman Michael van Praag said that under the
agreement an Ajax Football Academy will be established at
Obuasi, the home of the Ashanti Goldfields, to train the
home players.

A youth development center will also be set up in Tamale
in the Northern Region to cater for the northern sector of
the country.

Van Praag said it was his club's intention to build a
strong soccer team in Africa.

"Apart from coaching the players the partnership will also
develop the players in terms of high quality education and
other professions so that even after they leave active
footballing they would become responsible members of the
society," he said.

Sam Jonah, managing director of Ashanti Goldfields Company
Ltd., said in order to give the partnership a free hand to
operate the club had abrogated its partnership or working
arrangements with other sporting clubs.

He added the Ashanti Goldfields had invested $5.1 million
representing 49 percent of the partnership.

However, Shell Oil Company which is sponsoring Ajax (with
51 percent share in the partnership) would not disclose
the volume of its investment.

Ghana's Deputy Minister of Youth and Sports, Sylvester
Azantilo -- who spoke at the ceremony -- stressed the need
to give quality education to the players at the academy.
He said what is holding up sports development in the
country is illiteracy.

The partnership which takes effect from July 1 this year
has a five-member board, three from Ajax and two from
Ashanti Goldfields.

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