[VMSL Premier] Results & Banter – February 05’

[knvb]

You'll find all December and January banter here, all 6 posts:

http://www.takethepiss.com/forums/sh...576#post147576

February is 18 minutes away, I thought I would get a head start...

Group A - GP - Points

1 ICSF Inter "A" 13 - 26
2 Sapperton Rovers "A" 13 - 23
3 Burnaby Canadians "A" 14 - 20
4 Croatia SC "A" 13 - 19
5 Westside Rino "A" 12 - 15
6 Trollers FC "A" 14 - 15
7 Khalsa SC "A" 14 - 15

Group B - GP - Points

1 Columbus-Clan FC "A" 13- 22
2 Surrey United "A" 12 - 21
3 AFC Leopards "A" 12 - 19
4 Vanc. Firefighters "A" 13 - 17
5 Sporting Club "A" 12 - 16
6 Metro-Ford Wolves "A" 13 - 15
7 Pegasus FC "A" 14 - 9

[knvb]

This week fixtures for those of you keeping score at home.

FEB. 03

Surrey United vs Croatia SC

Feb. 05/06

Vanc. Firefighters vs Trollers FC
Burnaby Canadians vs Pegasus FC
Surrey United vs ICSF Inter
Columbus-Clan vs Sapperton Rovers
Westside Rino vs Metro-Ford Wolves
Croatia SC vs Sporting Club
AFC Leopards vs Khalsa SC

I think there is three big matches this weekend with relegation looming along with league and provincial spots up for grabs. Peg vs BBY. Peg needs all the points they can get and we know BBY will kindly offer up at least 1. Clan Bus vs Sapp. This has two teams jockeying, (yee haw), for first place on their respective sides. Westside vs MF. It could be a relegation battle and from what I hear a weight battle as well. (And they aren't even on the same sides, though, they have some players large enough to reach.) It’s a stretch to say this will doom either side, smallys jersey yes, but put their team into an insurmountable hole, no.

[whataboutbob]

GO Surrey GO!

[zeus]

Just checked out the vmsl website and the league has taken 3 points away from us!!!! Apparently Azzi has the right to change his mind anytime he wants.

We beat Metro Ford on in December and we didn't have Jarvie's card before the game. Azzi just happened to be there, so the linesmen went up and asked him if it was ok for Jarvie to play with his BCDL and he said yes!

Two months later he changes his mind and decides to take 3 points away from us. What a load of sh*t! As if we would have played Jarvie if he was an illegal player?

Must be nice for Metro Ford to have someone pulling strings for them!

[Herb Jr.]

I have just received some news that the Fireman have been penalized 3 points for using an illegal player on Dec 4th(Friday night vs Metro Ford). The reason for the penalty, which is stated in the team rep's e-mail, is because the Fireman failed to produce the players I.D. card.

Now the interesting thing to note about this situation besides the fact the ruling is coming almost two months after the game, and no formal protest was lodged by Metro Ford, is that both Azzi, and Tremarco were at this friday night game. The week before the match the player in question was coming off a one game suspension and was cleared to play against Surrey United. Unfortunatley, due some circumstances the players I.D was not picked up before the match(possibly because of the ridiculous hours the VMSL headquarters keep). A team representitve notified Azzi and explained the situation to him and Azzi agreed to write a hand written letter, which stated the player was cleared to play. This letter was to be submitted to the officials before the match as well as picture I.D. The letter was given to the referees assistant at the time of the game and the player was allowed to play.

The next week was the match vs Metro Ford, and for some reason the players card was not picked up again!!!Now not having the card is the major issue here, but before the game began, we advised the referee and the referee's assistant that we did not have the players I.D. card. The referee's assistant was the same assistant that had taken the letter from the Fireman the previous week, with the stamp of O.K. from Azzi. He remembered this and said he would ask the referee if it was OK for the individual to play, stating that he had remembered the letter from a week previous. The referee then OK'd the decision. Then the referee's assistant also went to Azzi,who was present at the game, and got the OK from him as well. We were told the player was OK to play and he did. The final result of the match was 1-0 for Fireman.

I would like to state that there was no formal protest lodged by Metro Ford, but my question is, what would be the reasoning for dealing with a matter like this two months after the fact,and why was no one contacted earlier, when two VMSL officials(Azzi and Tremarco) were present at the match.

I am obviously biased, but this ruling seems very odd, and it comes at a time where the division is very close and Fireman and Metro Ford are struggling to get points. Knowing this ruling, is there a way to protest this decision and are there any similar situations where the ruling was overturned(DUE TO CONFLICT OF INTEREST OR CORRUPTION,......" AZZI")???




Herb Jr.

[john]

Herb Jr & Zues,

I was in a similar situation years back and did get the same note from Azzi and was allowed to play...............BUT JUST IN THAT ONE GAME! This is something that not only effects MF & Fireman but every team in your side and the division for that matter when it comes to Provincial spots so really anyone ( including KNVB) could have filed the protest

It is a shame to have points taken away and really have the game mean nothing now but the rules I believe are pretty clear and yes the points do need to be taken away.

[Herb Jr.]

A) The player was not "suspended"....he played the week before vs Surrey United with written permission.
B) The written permission was received by the same referee's assistant who had taken and kept the letter a week previous.
C) The permission was OK'd by the referee prior to kick off.
D) The permission was also granted by Azzi verbally at the time of the game in which he was present.(Could be considered the same as written permission, coming from the same person)

So let's say that the Fireman were in the wrong. Why would it take two months for the league officials to come to this decision???? It' s clearly stated in the rules......correct??? Seems like something that would be dealt with quite quickly...no?? Why did Metro Ford have no complaints about the result. They knew Jarvies card wasn't there. Why is it that the VMSL would look at this game now?????

[Smiles]

When was the fine paid?

[Reccos]

Herb: I think you have to ask the question of the team officials. How f...k..g stupid are they not to have the card picked up over a two week period!!! That is ridiculous and I can understand why they made the decision to take the points away. It is not up to Azzi or Ruben to run out on the field and stop a player from playing but they do have a role later on.

As hard a decision this is to take, it is completely the team's error for not having someone capable of picking up that card sometime over a two week period.

Maybe Mr. Azzi knew what was going on and simply said nothing and MF could wait the game out.

If there is any out to this, it might be to BC Soccer or check the VMSL constitution and bylaws to ensure that the correct procedures were followed in removing the points. But if the team has no time to pick up the card in a two week time frame, how could they do an appeal?

[cside17]

Lesson learned, pick up your cards when needed. They must apply the same rule to everyone, whetehr MF is invollved or not. I would question AZZI the NAZZI's involvement in league ruling's involving MF. Ooh I forgot, he's not involved with them. Disregard my post...



Not like the 1st time he's been involved in shite like this

[darkmeat]

If in fact the league prez said the player was clear to play, why on earth would anyone say the the penalty was justified???
Eg. If my boss tells me to go home early, I go. I don't ask him to get it notarized. I go home early.

If I was the manager of the Firemen, I would have picked up the card....yes, but I also would have let the player play with Azzi's verbal authorization. As players we are held accountable for our words and actions on the soccer field, so the "league exec" should be held responsible for whichever decision they made that night.

Thieves are better than liars.....bring back Gill McGarver!!!

[LFC2]

As a FVSL outsider, I have read through the posts and am left thinking there has to be something missing. If in fact the facts are the facts as presented, a bit of a head scratcher.

[knvb]

LFC2, I think what you're missing and what the unbiased concerned posters are trying to insinuate is that... Azzi, the former head of Metro and now league executive screwed them. Metro Ford was/is close to a relegation position and with the loss of three points the Firetown are now in it, knee deep. Sound about right guys?

Why is it you've posted these moans on TTP anyways? You never used the site for anything else what do you think will happen? Are you looking for a public outcry to pressure the VMSL to give you your 3 points back? Superlative idea, but highly unlikely you'll get any young veterans support here. Asking league reps standing on the sidelines at card check time if a player could just show his D/L is dodgy at the best of times, doesn't matter if the same linemen saw a letter the week before or not. What if they weren’t there? Would you still have played Jarvie?

Sorry, no one to blame but yourselves.

[rangerforever]

Quite possibly a nut scratcher.
Or one of those inside coily itches where you need scratch your bungy when it goes right up you it like a worm.

Herbie:

I don't know exactly how the FVSL would deal with a situation like this but my understanding out here in the Valley is based on an instance I observed.

Ref checks cards.
One player has no card.
Ref knows said player.
Ref asks for ID.
Drivers License is produced.
Ref clears player to play but states a fine may apply.
Don't know about if the fine happened but I assure you no points taken away.

Based on your story it seems a little unfair regardless if your manager didn't dot his i's and cross his t's and pick up the lad's card.

Whatever happened to reasonability?

Teams should be fined with cash not points when the player was eligible to play anyway IMO.

My two bits,

RF

[Reccos]

Darkmeat posted:

If in fact the league prez said the player was clear to play, why on earth would anyone say the the penalty was justified???
Eg. If my boss tells me to go home early, I go. I don't ask him to get it notarized. I go home early."

Darkmeat, they said he could play on the letter for ONE week, not TWO.
Secondly, if your boss tells you to go home early last Friday, he does not mean you should go home early THIS Friday or ALL Fridays.

Cside17 posted:

"Lesson learned, pick up your cards when needed. They must apply the same rule to everyone, whetehr MF is invollved or not. I would question AZZI the NAZZI's involvement in league ruling's involving MF. Ooh I forgot, he's not involved with them. Disregard my post...

Not like the 1st time he's been involved in shite like this "

I laughed big time at this one as that is precisely what Willi told me when MF wouldn't sign a transfer form so a guy could play the next weekend. MF claimed a rule that no one had heard that says you can delay a transfer 7 days. It was true, but never done unless a player has club kit or owes them money. But Willi told me he was not involved with MF... lol. Yeah right and Gil didn't steal any money from the VMSL bank account.

I really can't see how a team can't find some way to get a player's card picked up over a two week period. When I coached I often made the player pick up his own card.

[Smiles]

When was the fine paid?

Anybody?

[Reccos]

Ranger: a team should be fined for cash for using an eligible player? That is nuts!! The rich teams could play a guy forever leaving small market teams struggling. Everyone would use suspended players in big games! WAB would find a way to get his suspended guys into unis for big games.

[Six of One]

Why is it you've posted these moans on TTP anyways? You never used the site for anything else

I can't believe I just read that. Give your head a shake. Stuff like this is the whole reason most people read TTP. So at training next week, you don't want me to say to the guys, hey, did you read that Firemen had 3 points deducted for using an ineligible player even though he was verbally ok'd to play? Check out this website TTP. Isn't this the kind of water cooler discussion you want for this site?

And yes, they should have picked up his card. That being said, if the league prez ok'd him verbally despite not having his card, I think most teams would do what Firemen did and play him.

[Herb Jr.]

The feedback is appreciated regarding this situation, and I fully agree with the leagues rule, that the players ID card must be present at the time of the game. I also agree that the Fireman, as a club, had ample time to get Jarvie's ID before the game was played. My arguement is exactly the same point which is made by Darkmeat. Two game officials, AND, a league official( THE LEAGUE OFFICIAL), cleared Jarvie to play at the game!!! If that is not the leagues approval I don't know what is. The Fireman club DID know the ruling and that is why it seeked the leagues approval at that time. If we knew there was going to be any question of that, then Jarvie wouldn't of played, even if it was a grey area!!!!

Now stating that.....let's just say ALL the game and league officials were confused at the time of the decision, or weren't clear on the rules, and admitted to making a mistake at that time. Why wouldn't anybody from the league contact the Fireman sooner?? Maybe give it a week to make sure the ruling was right....or two...or even three,....but TWO MONTHS later!!!!! It seems quite odd, especially when no formal protest was lodged by MF or any other team in the league(to my knowledge), that a ruling like this would come to the leagues attention now!!!

I guess the only thing that can be done now, is to lodge a protest to the decision, and move on. It'll probably turn into a" you said this, and no I didn't "squabble. It just seems this is another example of one league official (AZZI) arbitrarily making decisions on personal bias and misuse of league status!! I'm sure this isn't the first time, and it will not be the last, for Fireman, and, or many other teams, while Azzi is in charge!!!!!

[knvb]

Section 2.5 of VMSL constitution / bylaws says... (and I'll paraphrase to save ink and my sanity) "The President of the league (William Azzi) doesn’t have a vote on these types of matters unless it’s to break any ties... blah, blah, blah... and any director on the board who has any involvement with clubs in which the decisions may directly or indirectly affect them, must step down from any such vote yada, yada, yada...

My guess as to why it took two months is, the Christmas break. When was the last directors meeting? Also, the ref's can't stop the players from playing he can only notify the other team.


I think some of the Azzi slander, Herb, should be cut to a minimum that is of course until he selects Sapperton as the Team of the Week again.