Very Important VMSL Development for 2005/06

[Regs]

From a very reliable source, I have received info that the VMSL is holding a special meeting next Wednesday (Aug 31st) for all Premier and Div 1 teams.

The agenda is to discuss/vote on reducing the premier division from 14 to 12 teams.

From what I gather, the proposal will be for the bottom 3 teams to play off at the end of this season for the right to stay up. Division 1 will only see one team promoted which I would assume means the winners of each side will have a playoff for promotion.

The end result would see a 12 team Premier with no sides - each team playing a 22 game schedule.

Personally, I feel this is a huge step forward for the league.

However, I see some problems with this being voted through due to teams only thinking of themselves and short-term, i.e., probably the div 1 teams are not going to be happy and teams in Premier that are already in apparent trouble *cough* Capitals *cough* Weakside *cough* not going for it.

Kudos to Azzi and the league for recognising the apparent decline in the standard of play in the Premier division. They don't get much credit on this site usually but they deserve it here now.

What do other TTPers think of this?

Cheers,

~Regs.

[Stranger]

Originally Posted by Regs

From a very reliable source, I have received info that the VMSL is holding a special meeting next Wednesday (Aug 31st) for all Premier and Div 1 teams.

The agenda is to discuss/vote on reducing the premier division from 14 to 12 teams.

From what I gather, the proposal will be for the bottom 3 teams to play off at the end of this season for the right to stay up. Division 1 will only see one team promoted which I would assume means the winners of each side will have a playoff for promotion.

The end result would see a 12 team Premier with no sides - each team playing a 22 game schedule.

Personally, I feel this is a huge step forward for the league.

However, I see some problems with this being voted through due to teams only thinking of themselves and short-term, i.e., probably the div 1 teams are not going to be happy and teams in Premier that are already in apparent trouble *cough* Capitals *cough* Weakside *cough* not going for it.

Kudos to Azzi and the league for recognising the apparent decline in the standard of play in the Premier division. They don't get much credit on this site usually but they deserve it here now.

What do other TTPers think of this?

Cheers,

~Regs.

You could still have the bottom 2 from Premier drop and the top 2 from Div 1 advance with 12 teams in the Premier.

[Regs]

Not this year you couldn't.

But if you mean in future years, yes, that's how it would continue on.

[BlazeArmy]

This is an excellent idea. finally a forward looking plan is being put out there.

A 3 team playoff to stau in Premier sounds good. I'd like to see those games. They would be intense.

Now how about unlimited subs in the CAT divisions.

Stranger, He's talking about the first year to get down to 12 teams. After that it can be whatever anyone likes.

[Gurps]

I don't see the top Div one teams going for it. Just for the fact that they will still want to see themselves have a shot at promotion this year.

I do however think it is a good idea. Make the whole league stronger.

My guess is they are doing this due to Burnaby essentialy being replaced by a Div 1 team.


My two cents.....

[BlazeArmy]

What happens in Div1?
Does one less team move up from Div 2?
Do both 9th place squads get relegated?

The meeting should be pretty interesting.

[termatofylakas]

Originally Posted by BlazeArmy

A 3 team playoff to stau in Premier sounds good. I'd like to see those games. They would be intense.

The problem here is Blaze that you cannot have a 3 team playoff with the winner staying and a team coming up and remain with 12 because at the end you'll have 13 teams left. I bet that the 2 last place teams go down, the 2 second to last teams from each group playoff to stay up and 1 team comes up via a playoff again. I hope I'm making sense here.

Regs you are losing me here...but I like the proposal.

[BlazeArmy]

termatofylakas,

i see what your saying.

[Toze]

Obviously a good and long overdue idea.

Was there not a similar meeting 2-3 years ago and, surprisingly, the Premier Clubs shot it down?

I would hate to be that Division 1 club that battles all year for first place - and then lose a one game playoff.

Having said that - a ten team Premier would be even better.

[Regs]

Term...

Good eye! Your proposal on playoff demotion would work well.

[Gurps]

Originally Posted by Toze

I would hate to be that Division 1 club that battles all year for first place - and then lose a one game playoff.

That is what think also.

However, the new proposal should pass.

Only two, maybe three Premier teams will vote against it.

Most likely the top four or five Div 1 teams will vote against it.


The rest will most likely vote for it, so it should pass.

[Regs]

Toze,

I believe you are correct on Premier teams shooting down the idea a couple of years ago. I guess the difference now is the recent problems in "top" teams folding or having problems keeping players (Capitals, Khalsa, Argentina, etc).

One could argue that this is all Steve Millar's fault. If he wasn't so greedy and in it for the money, the Capitals would have been fine and the league wouldn't find itself in this situation.

[SofaKingGood]

The calibre will definetly benefit all Divs with this proposal. But the question becomes on determining who goes up/stays up for the first year of this "new alignment." To be fair for the Div 1 teams, which may have more at stake here, I think the league should do a playoff, which takes into consideration of the groupings, b/c some sides are "weaker" than others. Meaning, the second to last and last place teams from both Premier sides and maybe the 1st and 2nd place teams from both Div 1 sides have a knockout style promotion tourny. 8 teams in the playoffs and 2 make it or stay in Premier. Then next yr they can do whatever the Hell they want. Premier games are competitive throughout b/c they are also competing for Provincial spots. By November in Div 1 and 2, you pretty much are playing for nothing if your not in the top 2 or 3. Thats why I like the playoff idea so teams have something to play if they aren't first and are going for the backdoor in. Done, sorry

[Reccos]

Does this mean that the VMSL and King Willi are ready to admit that the CAT system has done less to improve the quality of soccer than Kitty Litter has done to reduce the odour of cat sh/t??!!

The CAT system was to improve clubs which was to improve the quality soccer.

How could CAT achieve that lofty goal if you want to have a decent competitive Div 1 and then you water the product with CAT? How is that a strategy destined for success?

I suspect that this dream of great clubs in the VMSL is all falling apart as teams are actually moving between so called clubs now and the big clubs that do exist such as Surrey are unique in their geographic drawing power as they have a huge area to draw from population wise and they are in the VMSL not FVSL which is an added draw for them. Westside has had great strengths being in the Westside of the city and links to UBC that seem to encourage their players to go there.

The rest are hardly clubs and CAT is not a feeder system as I see it as a casual observer.

Whether this will come to pass at such a meeting remains to be seen. I witnessed the last meeting and the vote failed. Look for some teams who may see themselves going down a division calling for Surrey to go back to FVSL if this comes about. This issue is likely to be raised although that is not about to happen. There are bigger issues in senior soccer VMSL style than the number of teams they have in Premier.

While Willi and his board do a good job of managing their League, they have zero vision and the VMSL is drifting significantly. The CAT crap was destined to failure as it ran counter to what teams want and players want which is key to any successful initiative. At the same time as other winter leagues were building, the CAT idea was effectively countered.

What are the measures of success for the VMSL? Are there any?
Like I said, senior VMSL soccer is drifting.

[Captain Shamrock]

Originally Posted by Stranger

You could still have the bottom 2 from Premier drop and the top 2 from Div 1 advance with 12 teams in the Premier.

This makes more sense.

[Regs]

Makes more sense how?

After the transition year? Of course!

But for this year, I don't see how it would make any sense at all... unless you mean the bottom 2 from each side. Yes, that would make sense and really, would probably have the greater chance of being voted in favour.

Playoffs though would be magic, especially with the attention that past playoff games/tourneys have garnered.

[Coach10]

How about relegating the bottom two teams in each Premier division and promoting the top team in each of the Divisioin 1 sides. (14-4+2=12). That way the VMSL avoids playoff games in an already busy end of the year, all games at both ends of the table in Premier mean more (increased intensity), and the Division 1 teams who have made plans for the season do not have the rules changed 1 week prior to the start of the campaign. What if you get a team in Premier that doesn't win a game all year but finds players to help them win the playoff? How does that improve the premier division? Further, if premier teams fold next year the "relegated" teams can be resinstated as needed.

What happens at the bottom of Division 1 and top of Division 2 is not really being considered here. Why are the Division 2 teams not invited to vote?

Will there be a proposal at the meeting for people to discuss with a chance that there may be a change if the group can find a better way or will we be told that Wednesday is "not the place for a discussion"?

Coach10

[john]

I like the idea of a stronger premier division for sure..................

But why not just drop two teams right now?????? Seriously, if the Capitals have had to merge with a division 1 team and apparantly Weakside are in some serious trouble with numbers, drop them both and bingo,a twelve team premier division and everyone is happy

[bonefish]

For what its worth I would vote for this as well as open a forum on CAT(its future) and my biggest peeve, substitution rules for the lower divisions. It we are going to clean house we might as well lift the carpets and move the couch and get it done right.

[Regs]

Why would Div 2 teams need to vote? I fail to see how this would affect them?

Serious question: when the league made the div 2 cup and div 2 teams were then allowed to not enter the Imperial cup, was a vote held? And if so, were Premier teams allowed to vote?

Why on earth would div 2 teams want to fcuk something up that in the long run will only strengthen the league as a whole?