2014 Vancouver Whitecaps

[Dude]

Regs: why the fcuk can't I like my own posts?

 

[Tactically Inept]

Ref sympathizer!
...but I think you're right. The ref was positioned perfectly and had a split second to make a call on a play where the ball clearly hit his arm and where Waston looked really guilty afterwards.

The Law doesn't help the ref's case though:
Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with the ball with his hand or arm. Really don't think this was anyone's opinion of the situation. And as part of it the ref also needs to take into consideration these pertinent items:

• the movement of the hand towards the ball (not the ball towards the hand) - not helping the ref's case
  
  
• the distance between the opponent and the ball (unexpected ball) - could be argued there was a reasonable amount of time for Waston to position himself better and his misjudgment caused the handball
  
  In any case, it's all done now, but I think this highlights the perfect situation for video replay (also on dubious goals). The ref makes his call as he sees it and the play is already stopped after that point. If he was allowed to go to a video replay or 4th official in the stands like in Rugby and they make a determination on whatever aspect of the play is at issue, I think there would be a more correct outcome in almost all cases. It wouldn't add much more time or disruption (no more than goal-line technology for instance) as these incidents are pretty infrequent. If the decision after that point is that it's not a goal or PK, just award a goal kick to the defending team and restart play. Worst case, you award a free kick to the attacking team on decisions that determine in or out of the box.
  
  Rant over, carry on.

 

[Mr Base]

Dude if you slow down Wastons movement and you watch you will see that he did not move his arm forward towards the ball, he tried to move it out of the way. There is no F way that that was a penalty and on top of it in a one to one tie game. Ball to hand read the fine print in the rule. There is no ifs or buts. Ref fu-ked up.
As you know it's Amercan way. Two more games to play TV rights and folks to pay. MLS American All the way. Ref in MLS's pocket one must say. DeVos should move down and stay.
And I wish Camilo comes this way. Both Baba and Robbo did a good job for this city. With right moves in off season it could get better.
If Camillo or guy like him comes back I can see our crauds reach twenty seven thousand a game.

 

[cascadesoccer]

According to the MLS app, the ref Mark Geiger said "Waston deliberately handled the ball, hence the PK was called" and he would make this call in any point of any match. SO FIRED UP!

 

[Dude]

Dude if you slow down Wastons movement and you watch you will see that he did not move his arm forward towards the ball, he tried to move it out of the way. There is no F way that that was a penalty and on top of it in a one to one tie game. Ball to hand read the fine print in the rule. There is no ifs or buts. Ref fu-ked up.
As you know it's Amercan way. Two more games to play TV rights and folks to pay. MLS American All the way. Ref in MLS's pocket one must say. DeVos should move down and stay.
And I wish Camilo comes this way. Both Baba and Robbo did a good job for this city. With right moves in off season it could get better.
If Camillo or guy like him comes back I can see our crauds reach twenty seven thousand a game.

Base- this is my point...ref doesn't have the benefit we do, to slow down and have a good look. He had a split second, and you KNOW we have all been in that situation, both on the deffensive side of the ball and the attacking end. As defenders, we hate those calls...always dubious, always a grey area. As an attacker, we scream blue bloody murder if the ref DOESN'T make the call.

So, point being, he didn't really fcuk this up. He called it as he saw it, and even in slow mo, it is inconclusive as to intent. To me, looks like he's caught off guard and didn't get his arm outta the way. Ball to hand? I don't know...there is an onus of responsibility on the player to keep his hands and arms out of the way if he can help it, and he didn't quite do that.

Tactically Inept has the situation bang on: this is one case for instant reply. When a play is alread called dead, the manager can call for his one replay, and at that point the clock stops to allow the replay crew to review. It'll be innovative, because it will surely be against FIFA laws, as the cloack will actually have to stop, which is never done in Football. This would give the MLS the power to make that discretionary call and overrule the ref, if they see validation. Even then, can of worms...it will never be 100% unbiased. That said, I agree, it needs to be done to improve the game overall.

As far as Geiger goes, his opinion is his opinion. When I saw it at full speed, my opinion was Waston didn't do enough to get out of the way, and he knew it after. Same w/ Mauro Rosalles, check out his reaction. He knew Waston was guilty.

 

[Dude]

I'd like a ref's opinion on it. @Captain Shamrock ???

 

[cascadesoccer]

Base- this is my point...ref doesn't have the benefit we do, to slow down and have a good look. He had a split second, and you KNOW we have all been in that situation, both on the deffensive side of the ball and the attacking end. As defenders, we hate those calls...always dubious, always a grey area. As an attacker, we scream blue bloody murder if the ref DOESN'T make the call.

So, point being, he didn't really fcuk this up. He called it as he saw it, and even in slow mo, it is inconclusive as to intent. To me, looks like he's caught off guard and didn't get his arm outta the way. Ball to hand? I don't know...there is an onus of responsibility on the player to keep his hands and arms out of the way if he can help it, and he didn't quite do that.

Tactically Inept has the situation bang on: this is one case for instant reply. When a play is alread called dead, the manager can call for his one replay, and at that point the clock stops to allow the replay crew to review. It'll be innovative, because it will surely be against FIFA laws, as the cloack will actually have to stop, which is never done in Football. This would give the MLS the power to make that discretionary call and overrule the ref, if they see validation. Even then, can of worms...it will never be 100% unbiased. That said, I agree, it needs to be done to improve the game overall.

As far as Geiger goes, his opinion is his opinion. When I saw it at full speed, my opinion was Waston didn't do enough to get out of the way, and he knew it after. Same w/ Mauro Rosalles, check out his reaction. He knew Waston was guilty.

this no place for logic, can't you see we're mourning?

 

[Tactically Inept]

....oh, and one other point - no fckin subs in the last five minutes of a match unless you see bone through the skin!
#Fckintimewastingshit does my head in.

 

[Rangerforever]

Fcuking rubbish call at that time in a game like that - Full stop.

WTF Dude?
Seriously?
It was bogus watching it live, let alone slo mo, on so many fronts.

Make sure you bring your warm jacket, gloves, and arse padded pants for Sunday's game by the way.

 

[RL RCD]

Base- this is my point...ref doesn't have the benefit we do, to slow down and have a good look. He had a split second, and you KNOW we have all been in that situation, both on the deffensive side of the ball and the attacking end. As defenders, we hate those calls...always dubious, always a grey area. As an attacker, we scream blue bloody murder if the ref DOESN'T make the call.

So, point being, he didn't really fcuk this up. He called it as he saw it, and even in slow mo, it is inconclusive as to intent. To me, looks like he's caught off guard and didn't get his arm outta the way. Ball to hand? I don't know...there is an onus of responsibility on the player to keep his hands and arms out of the way if he can help it, and he didn't quite do that.

Tactically Inept has the situation bang on: this is one case for instant reply. When a play is alread called dead, the manager can call for his one replay, and at that point the clock stops to allow the replay crew to review. It'll be innovative, because it will surely be against FIFA laws, as the cloack will actually have to stop, which is never done in Football. This would give the MLS the power to make that discretionary call and overrule the ref, if they see validation. Even then, can of worms...it will never be 100% unbiased. That said, I agree, it needs to be done to improve the game overall.

As far as Geiger goes, his opinion is his opinion. When I saw it at full speed, my opinion was Waston didn't do enough to get out of the way, and he knew it after. Same w/ Mauro Rosalles, check out his reaction. He knew Waston was guilty.

Dude, yes, you are right but a good ref will NEVER make that call in a play-off game between two evenly matched teams. Again, yes, he saw it that way and called it but would he call it the same way if that was in the other penalty box? I doubt he would make that call against the host team.

Having said that Whitecaps really can blame only themselves for being the fifth so they had to go to play a one game showdown as visitors.

Maybe this situation (barely making play-offs) will finally make some people at Whitecaps organization start thinking what could have happened if Whitecaps had a decent striker throughout the season. Unfortunately, knowing very well the logic some people use, it looks to me that those people will rather use that penalty as an excuse and blame ref instead of admitting that Whitecaps could have easily taken MLS championship this season if they had a forward like Camilo (just an example).

But, wait and see what is going to happen. I am quite sure Whitecaps will get rid of older players like O'Brien (who has been exceptionally good all season) and Rosales (who needed time to adapt) and keep those "crazy hair style" players (I guess it is easier to deal with young guys who very well know about their limitations so they are probably extremely happy to be a part of the organization; older guys demand more, demand changes, want to improve the team so most of them are not up to the Management's "standards").

 

[Dude]

Rosales was awesome last night, and if last night proved anything, you need another CMF of that quality in matches that don't suit Morales.

I'm not convinced a good ref would have not called that. I don't think Geiger is a bad ref, actually. As much as you can't go into a match LOOKING to influence the result, you also can't go in w/ the mentality that it will take a blatant, obvious call for you to blow the whistle at that point. In a splirt second, he sees it one way and makes the decision...easy to second guess now, but bloody hell, just look at Waston...he knew...sucks.

 

[The Franchise]

Was Herb the referee? garbage!

 

[GrandmaJoner]

Ref got it right

 

[Mr Base]

Dude why do you always support the refs. That guy was bias fu_k . He gave Caps four yellows to every one he gave to other team. Labda was getting chopped left and right, nothing Rosales the same.
Soccer is poor men's sport and it's twenty years behind in rules. Clear the dam shyt, hand ball should be, does not matter if it's hand to ball or ball to hand. If that call went to MLS head office to see if them guys would call it a PK it would never be two to one for Dallas. Clubs spend millions on players and than a shite-head like that guy becomes the out come of the game. He nothing more than an anal bag. MLS should send him packing.
We need review like hockey and rest of the sports. This is 2014. That guy from FIFA looks like he died ten years ago. We need young men in FIFA.
This country has to change. We need a CNSL across the land. Forget socking American hutter, or add three four more teams from Canada in orther to have more ref's from here.

 

[Regs]

Awesome.

 

[mtkb]

WCFC glasses? I'm hugely critical of their scouting and development on an ongoing basis...

I also refereed for the majority of my life. Nowhere near MLS level of course, but the laws have universal application.

To be blunt, that was never a handball. If you think it was, then you don't have a bloody clue how that rule is supposed to be applied. The man is CLEARLY pulling his arm away from the ball when contact is made.

Add in the game situation, and I wouldn't need a split second to say get on with it. Wouldn't have much time for any dissent on the point either, given how obvious a non-call it is...

 

[Rangerforever]

See Dude?

You don't have a bloody clue.

 

[TheRob]

I've tried not to look at this as a VWFC fan and just can't agree with those few saying it was a hand ball. Even trying to side with cousin Mark, but I can't. I just don't see it. As someone who's reffed for a few years now, I'm in agreement with mtkb. Definitely not a handball. Get on with it.

Geiger's explanation after the game further supports the no hand ball side. Clearly there was no intent. But, what's done is done. I'll ask Mark about it at the next reunion.

 

[Dude]

Homers the lot of you.

 

[bandcamp]

I don't think it's a hand ball but that call gets made all over the world all the time. The handball rule is the same all over the pitch but for whatever reason any time a ball hits a hand in the box it is often called…..and we've seen it a million times, every offensive player nearby ALWAYS scream for a call. Even when it is completely accidental, which this one is not clearly accidental based on the debates above. It drives me nuts when players scream for a call on a completely accidental hand ball in the box - like it's a different rule in the box or something. The rule is the same. The consequences are different.