Personally I hate it. I get going down easy when fouled but when you aren't touched there is a line of integrity. I think saying it is a part of the game is sad. It's not supposed to be a part of it. I won't ever teach my kid to do it.
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2017 Whitecaps
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TulioMaravilha
Active Member
LOL
Thats' my point, I think (and I know I am pulling things from thin air) it may be a stretch. If we're getting to 50% audience in the US of Latinos, we're dealing with guys who have always seen it done in their home leagues be it Mexican, Guatemalan, Honduran, etc. I know that discussion gets a lot of air time from the pundits in TV (and around here) but I'm pretty sure that, same as me, most of my "amigos" just gloss it over and roll their eyes at the complaining.
I know the diving gets over the top and almost 20 years after we still mock Rivaldo's awesome "hands on the face" flop at the World Cup (www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiW0IPrv1Ro) but then again people in Brasil still compliments the "smarts" of Nilton Santos in 1962 taking 2 steps forward and getting a potential PK (in which the spaniard dove big time) "tranformed" in a free kick (www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpmro6H7wwI).
As I said, cheating like that is seen different abroad. In Brazil only people who never played complain about it....
BTW, Dolan was again on TSN 1040 defending the goalkeepers union, and the right to a keeper to full on clatter anyone in the box anywhere within vicinity of a ball.
What's the TTP faithful position on this? I saw it as a PK, not because of my WFC goggles, but because Hamid was a split second late getting to the ball, went through the "tackle" late. It's a foul inside the box, thus a PK.
So, without getting too far off topic, why are keepers given a pass to commit dangerous fouls? In this case he goes two fisted into Shea. Knowing what we all know now about concussions, nobody can tell me that this isn't potentially a very severe injury for Shea.
Now, two weeks ago, we had a now locally famous Aldergrove player commit a dangerous foul in the dying seconds of a match. Different circumstances, I know, and I'm not here to debate that again, but why is it that when we see a late keeper clattering like this, we are not nearly as up-in-arms as a late leg-to-leg tackle?
@Rangerforever, what say you big man?
What's the TTP faithful position on this? I saw it as a PK, not because of my WFC goggles, but because Hamid was a split second late getting to the ball, went through the "tackle" late. It's a foul inside the box, thus a PK.
So, without getting too far off topic, why are keepers given a pass to commit dangerous fouls? In this case he goes two fisted into Shea. Knowing what we all know now about concussions, nobody can tell me that this isn't potentially a very severe injury for Shea.
Now, two weeks ago, we had a now locally famous Aldergrove player commit a dangerous foul in the dying seconds of a match. Different circumstances, I know, and I'm not here to debate that again, but why is it that when we see a late keeper clattering like this, we are not nearly as up-in-arms as a late leg-to-leg tackle?
@Rangerforever, what say you big man?
NOT the MLS target audience. That's the difference.
And just accepting diving as 'part of the game' is a joke. The whole sport is the laughing stock with the rolling around, fake injury thing. Diving is one part but the theatrics is worse. Every sport tries to dupe the officials on some level; even rugby which gets the respect nod for how the players treat the officials and how they 'man up'.
TulioMaravilha
Active Member
Matter of semantics.
Is the target audience the people who actually will watch the game or the people you wanted/hoped/dreamed would learn to appreciate and watch the game?
From a business standpoint if there was concrete evidence that the (for now) still majority of non-Latinos were being put off mainly by this then the MLS office would be stupid not to address it. But that's not the case, right?
As for the GK thing, (full disclosure, I had a broken nose from a goalie's wild lunge and I am accordingly biased) my 2 cents is no free pass should be given. Keepers shouldn't be protected like a precious flower just because the ball is in the 6-yd box. A dangerous charge should be punished regardless of who comitts it and where.
Is the target audience the people who actually will watch the game or the people you wanted/hoped/dreamed would learn to appreciate and watch the game?
From a business standpoint if there was concrete evidence that the (for now) still majority of non-Latinos were being put off mainly by this then the MLS office would be stupid not to address it. But that's not the case, right?
As for the GK thing, (full disclosure, I had a broken nose from a goalie's wild lunge and I am accordingly biased) my 2 cents is no free pass should be given. Keepers shouldn't be protected like a precious flower just because the ball is in the 6-yd box. A dangerous charge should be punished regardless of who comitts it and where.
TulioMaravilha
Active Member
OK, then. Have you ever been in a situation where you are close to a good scoring position inside the box and have your legs lightly clipped, or your jersey tugged just enough that you miss your balance and the shot? Since we're men and not dive, how many times have the "outside of the rules" defending technique been successful (in other words how many PKs you got from the refs)? I'll bet most of the times the defender gets away with this CHEATING. I've always been lousy at playacting (along with everything else inside the lines, LOL) so my first instinct is always to try to stay on my feet, and therefore I end up rewarding the other team.
Since this is the reality of the game, my advice to prospective high level players will always be: if you are inside the penalty box and contact is likely, if you have no shot, fall (but try not to make it too obvious). I can't do it for my life but it doesn't mean it isn't the smart play.
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Rangerforever
Well-Known Member
Dude:
To me it was a PK and card.
It was a late reckless challenge and Shea clearly beat him to the ball.
You tackle someone on the ground in a tough challenge and get the ball, fine, no call most times as long as it was clean.
You instead are a second late and flatten the guy, no touch on the ball whatsoever as he beat you to it, you're getting a foul called and a likely card.
Its one in the same on a goalkeeper's challenge IMHO.
RF Jr. was in the pipes in a big BCSPL semi final match about two years ago.
Cross comes into box just outside the 6, and he rises above everyone and cleanly double fist the ball out of danger just as some other kid is late challenging for the header.
The kid levels his face into the side my kid's forearm after missing the ball as my kid beat him to it and he gets his ass put on the ground as a result.
Ref blows his whistle, points at the spot, and I fcuking lost it on him.
The keeper has every right to that ball with his arms no different than the kid who has access to it with his head.
Its a fine line and you need to be very careful if you're a keeper in that situation, but my kid clearly got there first and entered the challenge in a safe fashion.
If anything I thought the kid should have gotten a call against him for running my kid from a side angle except he just happened to be on the bad end of it all as my kid didn't budge when he ran into him.
It was fcuking horseshit and yes, I'm still sore about it as again another example of an official who can't handle the occasion.
It was actually the second weak PK call he had made on the day and the match finished 2-nil.
He ruined a great semi-final because of his incompetence and gifting Fusion two PKs.
Walks?
What say you?
To me it was a PK and card.
It was a late reckless challenge and Shea clearly beat him to the ball.
You tackle someone on the ground in a tough challenge and get the ball, fine, no call most times as long as it was clean.
You instead are a second late and flatten the guy, no touch on the ball whatsoever as he beat you to it, you're getting a foul called and a likely card.
Its one in the same on a goalkeeper's challenge IMHO.
RF Jr. was in the pipes in a big BCSPL semi final match about two years ago.
Cross comes into box just outside the 6, and he rises above everyone and cleanly double fist the ball out of danger just as some other kid is late challenging for the header.
The kid levels his face into the side my kid's forearm after missing the ball as my kid beat him to it and he gets his ass put on the ground as a result.
Ref blows his whistle, points at the spot, and I fcuking lost it on him.
The keeper has every right to that ball with his arms no different than the kid who has access to it with his head.
Its a fine line and you need to be very careful if you're a keeper in that situation, but my kid clearly got there first and entered the challenge in a safe fashion.
If anything I thought the kid should have gotten a call against him for running my kid from a side angle except he just happened to be on the bad end of it all as my kid didn't budge when he ran into him.
It was fcuking horseshit and yes, I'm still sore about it as again another example of an official who can't handle the occasion.
It was actually the second weak PK call he had made on the day and the match finished 2-nil.
He ruined a great semi-final because of his incompetence and gifting Fusion two PKs.
Walks?
What say you?
LOL, I think you are over it now. @Walks needs to be called out to answer. While we are at it, @whistle blower, too. Interesting to get their take.
You about summed it up for me, that's exactly how I see it. That being said, I still think keepers get a free pass on the "danger" side of tackles (or, aerial challenges) like we saw in the Caps match.
It's absolutely mind boggling to me that, even on the SS forum, the forum is not calling for Hamid's head. Instead they are fixated on the dive. The dive never hurt anyone; a hit to the head like Shea took could be long term devastating.
If we see a guy go in two footed, we are mostly calling for his head. Red card, long term suspension, and forever labelled "dirty, cheap, cowardly, a pussy" (just to rehash a few from the Provincial Final a couple of weeks back). To me, the Hamid two-fisted punch was equally dangerous- even moreso. Shea is in a way more vulnerable position as he's attacking the ball mid air w/ his head completely exposed. Even if you go into that challenge with your head framed, you still need to expose it past your frame in order to properly strike the ball- plus he's "in flight", there is no way for Shea to alter path once committed. At least a guy on the ground may be able to dodge a two footer, or jump it. That has been my answer over the years- jump and land squarely on the shins of the dick two footing you, then let him have a moan to the ref who typically has no interest in hearing from the boy who cried wolf.
For me, that challenge should have been a red (after review, I thought going to the lino was a smart decision), and a PK. DC should have been forced to put in another keeper at that point.
It's part of the game that non-footballing people don't understand at all. They don't understand how physical those types of challenges can be, and really, both players are exposed. I've been on both ends; several clatters from keepers, the worse being an elbow that came down hard on my hip when I was 18, couldn't walk for a week. Some clatters like the one on Shea. I also know I've been that guy who's given a keeper a nudge while he's protecting the ball.
In fairness to the official, it all does happen so fast, and we have the benefit of instant replay, and looking at it from all sorts of angles. They have to dissect this on the spot. I can forgive a card not being shown; at least they got the PK call right.
So, will VR be able to assist these situations in the future, and if so, what are the limitations of a team to ask for VR, or an official to use it?
You about summed it up for me, that's exactly how I see it. That being said, I still think keepers get a free pass on the "danger" side of tackles (or, aerial challenges) like we saw in the Caps match.
It's absolutely mind boggling to me that, even on the SS forum, the forum is not calling for Hamid's head. Instead they are fixated on the dive. The dive never hurt anyone; a hit to the head like Shea took could be long term devastating.
If we see a guy go in two footed, we are mostly calling for his head. Red card, long term suspension, and forever labelled "dirty, cheap, cowardly, a pussy" (just to rehash a few from the Provincial Final a couple of weeks back). To me, the Hamid two-fisted punch was equally dangerous- even moreso. Shea is in a way more vulnerable position as he's attacking the ball mid air w/ his head completely exposed. Even if you go into that challenge with your head framed, you still need to expose it past your frame in order to properly strike the ball- plus he's "in flight", there is no way for Shea to alter path once committed. At least a guy on the ground may be able to dodge a two footer, or jump it. That has been my answer over the years- jump and land squarely on the shins of the dick two footing you, then let him have a moan to the ref who typically has no interest in hearing from the boy who cried wolf.
For me, that challenge should have been a red (after review, I thought going to the lino was a smart decision), and a PK. DC should have been forced to put in another keeper at that point.
It's part of the game that non-footballing people don't understand at all. They don't understand how physical those types of challenges can be, and really, both players are exposed. I've been on both ends; several clatters from keepers, the worse being an elbow that came down hard on my hip when I was 18, couldn't walk for a week. Some clatters like the one on Shea. I also know I've been that guy who's given a keeper a nudge while he's protecting the ball.
In fairness to the official, it all does happen so fast, and we have the benefit of instant replay, and looking at it from all sorts of angles. They have to dissect this on the spot. I can forgive a card not being shown; at least they got the PK call right.
So, will VR be able to assist these situations in the future, and if so, what are the limitations of a team to ask for VR, or an official to use it?
Well at least the good guys won
Couldn't agree more @Rangerforever ...it's all about the timing of the situation. Who got there first? Brek the Headband Hart got to the ball first and the goalie was late and cleaned him out. PK.
And @TulioMaravilha I know embellishment is never leaving the game. I am just not a fan of the theatrical dives and rolling around like you've been shot. As I've stated above, I wish the players would be better at their cheating and I wish the refs would deal with the Robben-esq type of cheating.
trece verde
Well-Known Member
Having been both the keeper getting clattered while stretched to get a ball, and especially after seeing my keeper from last year get kicked in the face AFTER saving the ball (and end up with a plate to hold his cheek back together) by a shithead from Croatia SC, I'm firmly in the camp of protect the keeper.
I've also been punched in the head by keepers "clearing" the ball (and "missing" it), but will still stand by the first statement. Difficult enough to try to get kids to play the position without being nuts (like 29 or fcbytca type nuts) without offering any protection beyond a pair of gloves and shinguards.
I've also been punched in the head by keepers "clearing" the ball (and "missing" it), but will still stand by the first statement. Difficult enough to try to get kids to play the position without being nuts (like 29 or fcbytca type nuts) without offering any protection beyond a pair of gloves and shinguards.
trece verde
Well-Known Member
Writing replies between setting up servers. Dangerous is dangerous. I'm not disagreeing with you, just answering your question re opinions.
Hamid was no more protecting himself than was the last keeper who punched me while "missing" the ball.
Now fcuk off, both of you. Especially you, Dezza, ya cheap cnut - I'm too busy to wait for a beer from you.
Hamid was no more protecting himself than was the last keeper who punched me while "missing" the ball.
Now fcuk off, both of you. Especially you, Dezza, ya cheap cnut - I'm too busy to wait for a beer from you.
@trece verde does 7:00pm tomorrow at the Thirsty Penguin work for you?
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