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BCSPL- Pros/Cons/Other Sports

mtkb

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re: National B... by its nature its an ongoing process that the league is working towards...

Canucks4ever, maybe you could be a little less cryptic than "as someone who's been involved"... that's about a half-step up from
"we have to do what's best for the kids" and "you've got to take it for what it's worth"...
 

Canucks4Ever

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re: National B... by its nature its an ongoing process that the league is working towards...

Canucks4ever, maybe you could be a little less cryptic than "as someone who's been involved"... that's about a half-step up from
"we have to do what's best for the kids" and "you've got to take it for what it's worth"...

Ouch...;)

I wasn't trying to be intentionally vague. I'm a coach, hope that clears things up.

To be fair though maybe you could be less cryptic than "mtkb". It's an online forum, anonymity has no impact on objectivity.
 
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I know a UEFA Licensed coach still has his license from Europe who has been told by BC Soccer "sorry sir you overqualified for a position with us. "

So,how qualified are these coaches that this gentleman can "NOT " get a coaching position in the hpl.

How is it a elite coach who lives in vancouver is not affiliated with a club ?
 

ThiKu

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B National. The phase-in period was last season as far as I was told. As of February 2014 it was supposed to be mandatory.

That's not to say though that some "creative" clubs might not list the head coach of a team as someone with a National-B License and then leave the day to day running's to someone less credentialed...

It's not mandatory. Plenty of coaches are below or even well-below National B are far as official certifications go - doesn't mean they aren't good coaches, and doesn't mean they aren't trying to get those certifications ASAP.
 

mtkb

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I've made it clear that I'm involved with one of the BCSPL clubs; not sure that more needs to be said... my moniker is of the "hiding in plain sight" variety anyway :)
 

Dude

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Oh God....you each accuse the other of hiding behind a moniker, then both proceed to continue to hide behind the moniker. At least everyone knows who Ballbaby is.
 

RL RCD

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Because that "elite" coach might find some embarrassing deficiencies in how HPL is being run and be vocal about it.:rolleyes:

Or, the same elite coach(es), could actually make a difference, do something, and then embarrass all those who have been keeping their positions with BCSA and/or CSA without any success for years, even decades, now.

I also know some foreign coaches who came to Canada to actually work as soccer coaches. Yes, they had broken English but they were new to Canada and had time to learn it (English). The work they did with some kids was unbelievable! Still remember a guy who run a small soccer school out of New West (10 years ago!?). Amazing work and dedication; remember seeing a lot of people who just came to watch his practices. He was a former pro from Europe and he actually demonstrated to the kids every single move. But, he could not get a (soccer) job anywhere in BC. I heard that he went into an argument with some BCSA officials who were supposed to coach his kids (enough talented to play later on in Europe). At the end, after few years of trying to get involved with soccer here in BC he returned to Europe. He obviously did not know how to play the system here in BC (did not know whose butt he had to kiss).

Because of the stories like this Canadian soccer is going nowhere; always the same group of people involved, buddies, business partners, etc. and it is hard to break that circle. Some people make huge amounts for part time work, no responsibility whatsoever, successful or not they keep their well paid positions. But, every 3-4 years they change the "system" in BC; from IPL to Super Y to HPL. What is next?
 

Dude

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I ran into a former contributor to TTP, a famous BCPL coach. For anonymous reasons, let’s just call him Ybabllab. :rolleyes:

Good guy, knows a thing or two about the game, still devastatingly handsome late in life, good around a fire hose, can wash a Dalmatian and fire up a bar-b-q like nobody’s business.

Ybabllab said he won’t get drawn into this discussion, but I digress…

One of the points we agreed wholeheartedly on in our short conversation was this: parents are ruining the game at the elite level in BC. Maybe at all levels. The amount of power that parents have now, both politically, and with their wallets, is not like it once was. I mean, look at the MNT recent loss in qualifying for the WC…from “our” generation of players- the players of the original NASL generation, and the generation following, that would not have happened. What may now be a more scientific approach to training, and where there may be more skill than ever before in our players, the heart is missing, and the toughness is missing.

I think we can all agree on that…

Ironically, Ybabllab (say that 10 times, fcuk me) points out that the girls side of the BCPL is in trouble for a variety of reasons, while the boys side is going strong…yet, the game at the WNT level is not in a state of emergency in Canada right now, while the MNT is. Interesting…

I don’t have direct involvement in either. I’m just asking the questions here, and trying to spark a bit of a debate.

But, the one question I would have about the boy’s side, and relating directly to both the reason there is a state of emergency, and the comments about “our” generation of players vs. the current…if the parents are a big part of the problem, why not do something about it?

In addition to that, you can’t tell me the boys side is doing “well”, even if, optically, it appears so. The quality drop has occurred over the last 30 years here, not overnight. I’d say right now, for these young players coming up, they are at rock bottom, so far as overall quality is concerned. So, if it is widely agreed upon that heart and toughness are the main shortfalls in our under 18 players, and the reason for this is the parents micro managing player’s careers, can’t we do something about that?

If we are serious about fixing the game, we HAVE TO take the power away from the parents. The power falls in the check-book and bank account. There needs to be a system in place, like mayor junior hockey, whereby if the player gets selected to that level, all of the pressure and accountability falls back on the player. Mirror Major Junior. Take the parents out of the equation. The only way to do this is to have these players, at the top level, 100% subsidized. This way, the best players are selected, and finances will never be a reason for not playing. Goals, and a willingness to truly commit to what it takes to be elite, will become the true determining factors.

I thought of all these great things to say to Ybabllab once I was driving home, but by then, too late…so I thought I’d post my thoughts here.

Anyhow…does anybody disagree that Ybabllab is way too handsome for the old bastard he is? Discuss.
 

Jigsaw

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I ran into a former contributor to TTP, a famous BCPL coach. For anonymous reasons, let’s just call him Ybabllab. :rolleyes:

Good guy, knows a thing or two about the game, still devastatingly handsome late in life, good around a fire hose, can wash a Dalmatian and fire up a bar-b-q like nobody’s business.

Ybabllab said he won’t get drawn into this discussion, but I digress…

One of the points we agreed wholeheartedly on in our short conversation was this: parents are ruining the game at the elite level in BC. Maybe at all levels. The amount of power that parents have now, both politically, and with their wallets, is not like it once was. I mean, look at the MNT recent loss in qualifying for the WC…from “our” generation of players- the players of the original NASL generation, and the generation following, that would not have happened. What may now be a more scientific approach to training, and where there may be more skill than ever before in our players, the heart is missing, and the toughness is missing.

I think we can all agree on that…

Ironically, Ybabllab (say that 10 times, fcuk me) points out that the girls side of the BCPL is in trouble for a variety of reasons, while the boys side is going strong…yet, the game at the WNT level is not in a state of emergency in Canada right now, while the MNT is. Interesting…

I don’t have direct involvement in either. I’m just asking the questions here, and trying to spark a bit of a debate.

But, the one question I would have about the boy’s side, and relating directly to both the reason there is a state of emergency, and the comments about “our” generation of players vs. the current…if the parents are a big part of the problem, why not do something about it?

In addition to that, you can’t tell me the boys side is doing “well”, even if, optically, it appears so. The quality drop has occurred over the last 30 years here, not overnight. I’d say right now, for these young players coming up, they are at rock bottom, so far as overall quality is concerned. So, if it is widely agreed upon that heart and toughness are the main shortfalls in our under 18 players, and the reason for this is the parents micro managing player’s careers, can’t we do something about that?

If we are serious about fixing the game, we HAVE TO take the power away from the parents. The power falls in the check-book and bank account. There needs to be a system in place, like mayor junior hockey, whereby if the player gets selected to that level, all of the pressure and accountability falls back on the player. Mirror Major Junior. Take the parents out of the equation. The only way to do this is to have these players, at the top level, 100% subsidized. This way, the best players are selected, and finances will never be a reason for not playing. Goals, and a willingness to truly commit to what it takes to be elite, will become the true determining factors.

I thought of all these great things to say to Ybabllab once I was driving home, but by then, too late…so I thought I’d post my thoughts here.

Anyhow…does anybody disagree that Ybabllab is way too handsome for the old bastard he is? Discuss.
Great post Dude.
I have said for many years that the day they started charging players who are going to represent their Province, is the day it all started to go wrong.
It should be an honor and a privilege to represent your Country, or Province.
I fully understand that these programmes cost money and with travel and Hotels, someone has to pay for it.
I stated many years ago that in order to get the best players to play for BC, they should increase the fees for Metro & BCPL (now) by $10 per player.
Then, if you are selected, the money is already there by the players most likely to use it. Do not charge all players, who have no chance of playing at that level.
House League & recreation soccer should not fund the elite.
Then, you can select the best players, whether or not their families are well off.
The next problem, is to stop the madness of selecting the BC Squad, or Whitecaps Squad, whatever it is, where these players are going and have an "open door policy".
As it is now, the players are selected in April and the National Tournament is not until August.
How do we know that the players, selected in April are going to be the best players in August?
What about injuries, or loss of form?
Scout every week and invite new fresh players into camp.
Then, when you select the team to go into competition, you will have the best.
They also need to look at who is doing the selecting & coaching.
Whatever they are doing now, is not working. We never win anymore and hardly compete.
Why is it the same Coaches every year?
Bring in new coaches from the clubs and reward them if they have had success.
They have to be better than who is doing it now.

There you go, that's my moan for the day.
What has gone wrong over the past 10 years?
Oh, hang on, isn't that when BC Soccer & the Whitecaps took over the "Player Development here in BC?
 

ThiKu

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I agree. Subsidy should be mandatory so players can play without fear of $$.

But let's not get carried away with firing coaches for poor results at the provincial level. Let's start asking "how many of these kids got scholarships or signed to a pro team". There's your metric at the top level. If the answer to that isn't satisfactory then some hard questions need to be answered.
 

Regs

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Soccer in BC in terms of "developing" high-level players would be miles ahead of where it is right now if more resources were put into scouting/identifying rather than supporting redundant programs.
 

Jigsaw

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I agree. Subsidy should be mandatory so players can play without fear of $$.

But let's not get carried away with firing coaches for poor results at the provincial level. Let's start asking "how many of these kids got scholarships or signed to a pro team". There's your metric at the top level. If the answer to that isn't satisfactory then some hard questions need to be answered.
They will sign for Universities regardless of being with the Select Team Program.
This is not the issue.
Club teams can win gold medals, at Nationals on a regular basis, yet our Provincial Team never gets close.
The players are out there, they are just not being selected, or the coaching isn't good enough.
I think both.
I have known of many teams that have very good players, yet they never get a look in for the Provincial Program.
I had a team that won Club Nationals 2 years in a row and no players were selected for the program.
2 of my players were the best I have probably seen in over 30 years, yet they were told that they missed the try-out and that was the end of it.
They should have gone on to play for Canada, but were denied the opportunity because of incompetent staff at BCSA.
The system is flawed and no-one seems to see it.
There is no accountability for any of these programs, they just plod along failing year after year. They say that is "for the experience". Bollocks.
Please tell me who they have developed in the past 10 tears.
I believe that the last player to come out of the select program to play at a high level was Mark Watson. He's now a coach in MLS.
How long ago was that.
Please tell me another.Don't say Tiebert, he's from Ontario.
 
Sep 29, 2013
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Or, the same elite coach(es), could actually make a difference, do something, and then embarrass all those who have been keeping their positions with BCSA and/or CSA without any success for years, even decades, now.

I also know some foreign coaches who came to Canada to actually work as soccer coaches. Yes, they had broken English but they were new to Canada and had time to learn it (English). The work they did with some kids was unbelievable! Still remember a guy who run a small soccer school out of New West (10 years ago!?). Amazing work and dedication; remember seeing a lot of people who just came to watch his practices. He was a former pro from Europe and he actually demonstrated to the kids every single move. But, he could not get a (soccer) job anywhere in BC. I heard that he went into an argument with some BCSA officials who were supposed to coach his kids (enough talented to play later on in Europe). At the end, after few years of trying to get involved with soccer here in BC he returned to Europe. He obviously did not know how to play the system here in BC (did not know whose butt he had to kiss).

Because of the stories like this Canadian soccer is going nowhere; always the same group of people involved, buddies, business partners, etc. and it is hard to break that circle. Some people make huge amounts for part time work, no responsibility whatsoever, successful or not they keep their well paid positions. But, every 3-4 years they change the "system" in BC; from IPL to Super Y to HPL. What is next?

Zenga , just in case you missed this ,this is the 2nd guy,coach .
 

ThiKu

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Good post, Jigsaw. I agree with you. Re: scholarships, I was referring moreso to NCAA as they can give sports scholarships of a substantial amount (Ontario soccer sends loads to NCAA on scholarships for example). Lots of good players go on and play in the various colleges and universities in Canada, yes, and that's to be applauded.

I agree - the scouting isn't up to snuff. Not at all (we all have stories!). Nor is the selection process (again, we all have stories!). But it's more than that too. There's no easy answer, but centralization of PTP training certainly isn't the answer. You can't please everyone, I acknowledge. Not to mention the Whitecaps training at a location that only allows for local Vancouver kids to attend (yes, yes, there are exceptions) until residency-age. Even if you disagree, or agree with how the Whitecaps do things - the fact is they can only coach so many players. They only have X spots in their youth programs.

Sadly, I truly believe, until there is a proper semi-pro (at minimum) league in this country kids will get missed over and over and over again, and we'll continue to hope we don't lose 8-1 again rather than expect to qualify for the hex at least. Not to mention the desperate need for more than 1 pro team in this province. Good players will never get a chance so long as the Whitecaps are the only pro option - we need USL Pro (at least 1, in Surrey, IMO) and some sort of u23 league that is semi-pro (nationwide, standards-based, linked to the Amway Championship, live streaming of games, paid attendance, minimum stadia requirements etc).

BCSPL has a lot of pro's, so I hope no one takes this the wrong way - I think it's the way forward, but needs adaptation.
 

djones

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There has been much debate as to whether the move to a high performance league would be good for soccer in BC. As the true measure will always be the players that the league helps to produce, success at National tournaments such as club national and provincial national championships is always brought up. In fact, one of the many objectives of the league was to improve performances (success) at these tournaments.

When these teams do poorly at these tournaments the nay-sayers come out in full force claiming everything from poor coaching and organizations to missed players and poor selections. So when they do well, credit must be given. Leading up to this years tournament, results have been steadily improving.

At this year club national tournaments, BC had one of it's better showings, especially on the boys side.

The boys teams from Coastal FC (U14), Coquitlam Metro-Ford (U16) and Surrey United (U18) + an under-aged Mountain United (U17), who were a late entry due to a last minute drop out of a Newfoundland team, had the best showing for BC boys teams in recent memory (possibly ever?).

Coastal (coached by Billy Connors) won silver in the U14 age group, CMF Spartans (coached by Les Krivak and Rob Mazzarolo before that) won gold in the U16 age group, Surrey United (coached by Jeff Clarke and Frank McCann) won gold in the U18's while Mountain United (coached by Wayne Shaw) won bronze and just missed out on seeing Surrey United in that final.

That's 2 golds, 1 silver and a bronze. With BCSPL teams steadily developing players who leave for the Whitecaps Residency programs, the showing has to be viewed as very positive!

Ontario teams have always been the bench mark when it comes to these tournaments. The BC boys teams played Ontario teams in every one of the championship games this year.

Being a coach who has coached against these coaches in all of these age groups over the last few seasons (I sound like a coaching slut!), I can say that the honours today are well deserved. All of them are passionate, dedicated and resourceful coaches who I really enjoyed matching wits with and having a laughs after the games with. Their teams are well coached, well organized and have steadily improved with every game I've coached against them. Congrats to all of them!

The girls side was a bit of a struggle with the Fraser Valley U14 finishing 5th, the Mountain U16's finishing 7th and the U18 Coastal team finishing with the bronze. Not as great a showing as they would have liked but with these and other BCSPL female teams developing girls who leave for the Whitecaps Girls Elite programs, it can make it tough when you lose your top players.

Is there flaws with the BCSPL? Of course there will be some but as they wrinkle out these problems their objectives are steadily being met.
 

Regs

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Great stuff BC and thanks for the summary Jonesy!

Frank McCann has had some success over the years, eh?
 

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