Div 2 FVSL Div 2 2019/20

Dude

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Just been contacted by an ASS. This ASS had gone silent, but every once in a while feels the need to contact me and blow off steam.

Says,

"...You're out of touch. Div 1 is not a step up from div 2. Hasn't been for years (note, Dude last played div. 1 in ~2010). The wack who just rolled through div 1 wouldn't do the same in div 2.

This is where the league has parked shitty u21 teams and the like to fill it.

These guys figured out way more fun in div 2 and being top dog. That's where so many premier quality players have gone.

B provincials is a decent draw now that we never even thought about 10 years ago. That's the new generation, want the glam without the work."

Maybe this proves my point about the need for a hardened pro / rel system with bite for avoiding promotion. My ASS did not comment, except to call me an ass, and to eat a dick, or some nefarious insult similar to.
 
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Canucks4Ever

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So let me get this straight...we allow teams to stay in D2 for 6 straight years, and then suddenly invoke a new rule that forces promotion? Sure... so put it in the AGM so that starting the season everyone knows the rewards/consequences of success and failure.

If I remember correctly pretty sure Sparta (twice), Abby B (three times?) and FVRD have all won the division in the last 5 years and none where forced to move to D1.
The reasoning you have provided is exactly what is killing the FVSL.

First off, for the record, this would not be a "new" rule that the league is relying on to "force" teams to go up. The language used in section 2(b) of the FVSL rules is "SHALL" and "WILL". Not "may be promoted", not "can choose to be promoted", etc.


It is only years of the league's own apathy and lack of a spine that has led to the assumption that somehow promotion is optional.

Abby B, Mission and FVRD are basically X premier squads at some point, albeit less fit now and less interested, and IMO they are awesome additions to D2, in no way would I want them gone. It Brings the level of Competition in D2 to what it should and could be rather than a glorified D3.

Writing is on the wall with nobody wanting promotion, if your best teams outside of Premier programs want to stay in D2 then B Cup Provincials clearly are important to those teams (who are part of the voting membership) and therefore their choice to stay in D2 should be respected. Jesus...the mighty rangers stayed in D1 for a decade.
So why wouldn't all these teams also be "awesome additions" to Div. 1??? If they are all of that calibre then they call all still play each other, together, with the same level of competition in Div. 1.

Arguably you are claiming that the level of competition is HIGHER in Div. 2 than in Div. 1. This is a massive issue. If this is the case then you no longer have a tiered system, you just have a free for all rec league with the same teams just playing each other over and over again year in and year out.

If we can't win the Provincial B Cup with our best 4 teams, how will FVSL fair if Dynamo/Abby B/FVRD/Mission all were in D1?

Your telling me that our hope of a FVSL B Cup Championship would lie in the hands of Surrey United or Langley City FC?

D1 is for "Cat" teams for Premier teams or D1 should be rolled in to B Cup and then this conversation would be over. Give D1 and D2 teams a choice of Pak or Pres, A or B cup and you will see a big change.

Personally, I don't really complain that Abby B, FVRD, Mission and the other very strong veteran teams stay in D2, I love games against them and I cheer for them when they play VMSL/VISL teams in the provincials, enemies on the field, but team-mates of mine in the FVSL when it comes to provincials.
Time to call a spade a spade here. The FVSL is not exactly turning out annual challengers for this title.

In the 19 year history of the competition the FVSL has won the title exactly once (ACBC in 2010). The last four finals have featured two VMSL teams. FVSL has had four semi-finalists in the past five seasons (Abby B 2019; PoCo and Red Devils in 2017; Sparta in 2015) while the VMSL has had nine semi-finalists over the same span. The last time the FVSL had a team in the final was Surrey FC Coyotes in 2012.

Is it also worth noting that the last five winners were all from the VMSL and all five teams progressed to Division 1 either that same season or the season immediately after. It seems that from year to year a revolving door of VMSL teams all pushing for promotion fair much better in the tournament than a steady group of FVSL teams all continuously playing each other year after year. Could the increased emphasis on promotion in the VMSL perhaps correlate to their ability to produce championship winning teams?

You want to make D1 Strong? Move Abby B, FVRD, Mission and Dynamo into it...and let us all play for B Cup.. that way you get all your wishes..and FVSL has a chance at a Provincial B Cup..

Not sure D1 is much stronger, unless I am using our own D1 team as too much of an example. I'd bet $50.00 that we'd split a 2 game series against them.
If B Provincials really are the deciding factor then that is the sort of thing the membership can bring up to the league. Teams in Division 1 could be registered on B Forms, but this will affect the number of Provincial A Cup spots that the league will be allotted. Perhaps, though, this might be a step the league needs to take in order to ultimately get better long term.

Like I said before, this is not going to be any easy process for the league. There will be pain. The FVSL is getting comparatively weaker year over year, the stats don't lie. If the leadership does not take action there is every chance the league will continue to become more irrelevant and, ultimately, just a recreational league.
 

Dude

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“Could the increased emphasis on promotion in the VMSL perhaps correlate to their ability to produce championship winning teams?”

It’s the way it should be.....
 

ThiKu

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So let me get this straight...we allow teams to stay in D2 for 6 straight years, and then suddenly invoke a new rule that forces promotion? Sure... so put it in the AGM so that starting the season everyone knows the rewards/consequences of success and failure.

If I remember correctly pretty sure Sparta (twice), Abby B (three times?) and FVRD have all won the division in the last 5 years and none where forced to move to D1.

Abby B, Mission and FVRD are basically X premier squads at some point, albeit less fit now and less interested, and IMO they are awesome additions to D2, in no way would I want them gone. It Brings the level of Competition in D2 to what it should and could be rather than a glorified D3.

Writing is on the wall with nobody wanting promotion, if your best teams outside of Premier programs want to stay in D2 then B Cup Provincials clearly are important to those teams (who are part of the voting membership) and therefore their choice to stay in D2 should be respected. Jesus...the mighty rangers stayed in D1 for a decade.

If we can't win the Provincial B Cup with our best 4 teams, how will FVSL fair if Dynamo/Abby B/FVRD/Mission all were in D1?

Your telling me that our hope of a FVSL B Cup Championship would lie in the hands of Surrey United or Langley City FC?

D1 is for "Cat" teams for Premier teams or D1 should be rolled in to B Cup and then this conversation would be over. Give D1 and D2 teams a choice of Pak or Pres, A or B cup and you will see a big change.

Personally, I don't really complain that Abby B, FVRD, Mission and the other very strong veteran teams stay in D2, I love games against them and I cheer for them when they play VMSL/VISL teams in the provincials, enemies on the field, but team-mates of mine in the FVSL when it comes to provincials.

lunatics running the asylum??
Nope, managers making the correct choice for their team and themselves, while actually representing the FVSL at the highest level possible.

Lets see... Dynamo Choices (and I bet you see similarities with other top 5 squads)

DIV1
  • Move To Div 1 with 16 players over the age of 32.. = Bad Choice
  • Move To Div 1 for the same level of competition = Bad Choice
  • Play 18 Games + 1 Cup game = Yawn.
  • Sign up for slow-pitch while provincials are taking place = Sad Choice
  • Compete for players with Current D1 Squad = Bad for LUSA Club.
DIV2
  • Stay in Div 2 with aging squad = Good Decision until all 20 are O35
  • Finish top 4-5 = Good Decision
  • Play 22 Games + 2-10 Cup games = Good Decision
  • Support Current D1 team on permits = Good Decision for Club
  • Play in Provincials representing FVSL = Great Decision
I bet the only people that want the top 4 gone, are the bottom 6 in each group...

FVRD, you guys probably dislike us, but would D2 better without us? Want us to move on to make room for the comeback of FC Marga, or KittenMittens or whatever the next one-and-done team that appears in D2 is?

Lets also factor in prize money... Zero for winning D2, pretty much all resources have moved to Premier. Give me $500-1000 for winning a division, then we will all go have some division winning beer, which is what most of us are playing for.

4. PRIZES & AWARDS 2018-2019



Premier Division WinnerTBA
All other divisions Trophy
Pakenham Cup, Winner $1,000
President’s League Cup Winner $200
Master’s Cup Winner $200
U-21 Cup, Winner $200
Bradner Cup Winner$100 x 3
SC Cup Winner$750



Anyhow.. sorry for the long rant..haven't been on in a long while.
If teams don't want the reward of promotion to A cup as a result of winning their B cup league, then they should not be in the pyramid/competition. If you don't want to be promoted, play in your municipalities beer league.

Also, sure, strong D2 teams who win would move up. Guess what? Hot D3 teams would move up (and do already), and D1 teams would drop down. The standard of D2 would be just fine, and exactly what it is and should be - tier 3. The whole point is teams of Prem/D1 strength should be in the Prem/D1 leagues.
 

krisztiant

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Surrey united 5
Surrey U21. 1

We coulda had a lot more couple good saves from there keeper plus we kind of let up second half it seemed. I also scored their only goal for them to make things interesting. 4-1 at half, 5-1 at full time not much to say. They belong in div 3, 2 or 3 good players but, you can’t rely on that to win games. Lots of dirty/ late tackles on there end. We also had a couple questionable tackles aswell. Onto cup play next week should be a good one.
 

suburbanator

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Funny thing about the moaning.. we have not won D2 as of yet, nor have we declined any form of promotion, in fact it has not been even discussed... Frankly we can hardly beat a good D4 team right now and Pres cup is our focus at this point.

Our Record since Xmas break is shocking, guys got some depends and dentures in Stockings I am thinking.

We voted on D2 or Masters last season and it came out 14-6 in favour of D2.
 

krisztiant

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Didn’t you play a top d4 team which is probably just making their way through the ranks ?
 

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