Premier FVSL - UPL Weekly Reports

dezza

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Maybe it has more to do with the organization training, assessing, and promoting them than the pay
 

Dude

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Frankly both and even more than than that. And beyond now with the MLS / CPL lure.

I do think wage is a big part though. Being a ref is a shite job, takes a certain personality, never mind competency. I know it’s not for me.
 

Canucks4Ever

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Money might help, but, as we saw with the previous pay increase two seasons ago, it does not result in an uptick in quality officials suddenly flooding into the system. You just end up with mostly the same guys with their hands out demanding more cash.

The problem definitely stems from supply vs. demand. There are SO MANY games each weekend between the youth and adult leagues that need officials that schedulers do not really have the luxury of being picky.

BC Soccer is working on a system to develop more referees, but it is a slow process. One issue is that there are not enough quality officials to help train the new ones which can result in a situation of the blind leading the blind for lack of a better term; though this is slowly starting to improve.

Also, just like players, you need to put young officials in environments to test themselves, while protecting them at the same time. Because of the lack of respect for officials (some of it unfortunately warranted...) that has become ubiquitous with soccer culture, the amount of abuse that a referee takes on a weekly basis, particularly at the adult level, is absurd and BC Soccer wants to protect young officials from that.
 

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You expected it to improve overnight? LOL.

Even with drastic changes - including pay increase- none of the current players will see a noticeable improvement. It’ll take a full generation to see something positive.
 

Canucks4Ever

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Agree re the time line for improvement. But my point is I don't think money is the biggest issue. $80 or $90 for an hour and a half's worth of work is not nothing and, from the research I have done, soccer referees are compensated better than most of their local amateur officiating compatriots.

For me the crux of it comes down to communication and conflict resolution. If you look at the top leagues on TV, the referees are always talking to the players, sometimes jovially, other times seriously. The result is a report that develops between players/managers and officials. That gives an official more clout and ability to be trusted. This is sports, it is going to get heated. You have to be able to have a rational conversation with people who have a different opinion. Coaches and players are well within their rights to lament a decision they feel has gone against them, so long as they do not say anything profane or disparaging; perhaps they are trying to influence the next call. Referees need to be able to manage that without immediately seeking to escalate a conflict. Disagreement is not necessarily disrespect. I see this far too often in games at the local park. A coach is upset/frustrated, yells "COME ON" or "NO WAY" etc. in the moment and referees immediately engage and the situation escalates. The best referees I have worked with/seen have always managed these situations by reaffirming their decisions, but letting the players/coaches vent within reason. If it starts to go too far, they have a quick word saying "look, fair enough, you didn't like it, but it's not up for discussion and you've had your moan so let's get on with it."

However, coaches and players would be well advised to pick their moments. A throw in at midfield is unlikely to influence the game, so is it really worth belabouring? Offside are often contentious, but if it was at least somewhat close and the referee is by himself, can you reasonably expect 100% accuracy? If you go into a hard challenge and the referee blows the whistle with you claiming you got "all ball" you should know that was the risk you were taking by going into a challenge like that in the first place. Plus it goes back to what @bulljive said about holding amateur soccer referees to an unreasonably high standard. The quality of soccer on display is hardly world class, so the refereeing, while needing to be competent, should be measured by an appropriate level of expectation.

The adult leagues (or at least the FVSL and VMSL) have a smaller pool of officials doing top games. I would like to see more transparency with this group (ie: a published list) and some sort of list of standards (think grading rubric) that these officials are held to. Then the list would turnover every say two months and names would be added/subtracted based on performance, evaluations, assessments. Perhaps even basic refereeing statistic for top level games similar to what is available when you are watching a game on TV. Simple enough to click on a referee from the elite group's name and see he has done 7 Premier/Div. 1 games so far this season and given out 3 reds and 8 yellows. We can track goals and discipline for players, so surely this would be easy enough. Then the leagues could see trending with their officials and if someone is giving out what looks to be a higher than average number of cards, the league could investigate further. Was it one outlier game where the cards were warranted? Or is this official perhaps too quick to go to the pocket? Maybe the league sends someone to watch his next game and evaluate, etc. Plus teams can see beforehand, hey this guys is liberal with the yellows, let's keep that in mind. More transparency and more information I think would result in a better overall experience for everyone.
 

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OK, I'm not going to write a novel, here are my bullets:
~At the rout of almost all organization issues, it's money as problem #1. Either too little spent in development, too little in comp, or both.
~it's not 1.5 hours, it's 1.5 hours, plus driving time, plus report time, and that report can take well over an hour if there were major issues in the match. So, breaking it down to let's say 4 hours in the Valley, 3.5 hours in the city, now we are $20-25 / hour. Not bad, but frankly, if you want extra work, become a good framer. No bitching, moaning, threats, sometimes death threads, dealing with fcuked supporters who chase you to your car. Yeah, that $25/ hour in no way looks attractive- especially if you want guys in their prime.
~Pay more and you can demand higher accountability at the BCSA levels. Pay less, get what you pay for.

Whenever this comes up, everyone's first objection is paying more for shite. If that's your opinion, fine, but don't expect any better. Guys Like Kevin Uppal and Walker are in fact the outliers...guys that generally do a great job, are well liked, and like what they are doing despite the fact the money really isn't worth the headaches, abuse, and time hassle.
 

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For me the crux of it comes down to communication and conflict resolution. If you look at the top leagues on TV, the referees are always talking to the players, sometimes jovially, other times seriously. The result is a report that develops between players/managers and officials. That gives an official more clout and ability to be trusted. This is sports, it is going to get heated. You have to be able to have a rational conversation with people who have a different opinion. Coaches and players are well within their rights to lament a decision they feel has gone against them, so long as they do not say anything profane or disparaging; perhaps they are trying to influence the next call. Referees need to be able to manage that without immediately seeking to escalate a conflict. Disagreement is not necessarily disrespect. I see this far too often in games at the local park. A coach is upset/frustrated, yells "COME ON" or "NO WAY" etc. in the moment and referees immediately engage and the situation escalates. The best referees I have worked with/seen have always managed these situations by reaffirming their decisions, but letting the players/coaches vent within reason. If it starts to go too far, they have a quick word saying "look, fair enough, you didn't like it, but it's not up for discussion and you've had your moan so let's get on with it."
Sounds like Bobby Brown and I don't mean Whitney.
 

akslop

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OK, I'm not going to write a novel, here are my bullets:
~At the rout of almost all organization issues, it's money as problem #1. Either too little spent in development, too little in comp, or both.
~it's not 1.5 hours, it's 1.5 hours, plus driving time, plus report time, and that report can take well over an hour if there were major issues in the match. So, breaking it down to let's say 4 hours in the Valley, 3.5 hours in the city, now we are $20-25 / hour. Not bad, but frankly, if you want extra work, become a good framer. No bitching, moaning, threats, sometimes death threads, dealing with fcuked supporters who chase you to your car. Yeah, that $25/ hour in no way looks attractive- especially if you want guys in their prime.
~Pay more and you can demand higher accountability at the BCSA levels. Pay less, get what you pay for.

Whenever this comes up, everyone's first objection is paying more for shite. If that's your opinion, fine, but don't expect any better. Guys Like Kevin Uppal and Walker are in fact the outliers...guys that generally do a great job, are well liked, and like what they are doing despite the fact the money really isn't worth the headaches, abuse, and time hassle.
What about Tax Write offs? Cough Cough
 
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Dude

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It's too bad the FVSL hate themselves so much they can't be fcuked to talk about themselves outside their own closet.

This is a nice match report, week 15: http://fraservalleysoccer.com/pdfs/UPL Review - Week 15.pdf

Seems the standings are shaping up as expected w/ Coastal and Langley battling out for top spot. Nice to see wee little runt mini @utah get back to his previous years success after a tough year last year. Make that $25.00 rain, Connor!
 

dezza

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It's too bad the FVSL hate themselves so much they can't be fcuked to talk about themselves outside their own closet.

This is a nice match report, week 15: http://fraservalleysoccer.com/pdfs/UPL Review - Week 15.pdf

Seems the standings are shaping up as expected w/ Coastal and Langley battling out for top spot. Nice to see wee little runt mini @utah get back to his previous years success after a tough year last year. Make that $25.00 rain, Connor!
"Chilliwack, meanwhile, cannot rest easy just yet as they are not safe from relegation, nor the threat of a playoff to stay up, just yet."

I'm not just yet sure this has been proofread, just yet.
 

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Around the Grounds at FVSL Cup Finals Day

With a break before Provincials I thought I would take in the FVSL's two top competitions. The VMSL certainly got the better weather for their All Cups Day as last week's sunshine had been replaced by a mixed bag of rain, wind and sun, plus lower temperatures. Obviously the hope was that the action on the field would help heat things up. With the two matches starting within half an hour of each other I was trying to decide how best to keep an eye on both, but fortunately there did not end up being much of a conflict...

Port Moody 3-2 Coastal - SC Cup
Port Moody came flying out of the traps and took advantage of a Coastal team that was evidently not ready to play in this one. A pair of quality finishes had the Gunners up 2-0 inside five minutes. A third strike made it 3-0 by the 15 minute mark and essentially ended this one before the Pakenham Cup even kicked off. There were few further shouts from that field until Coastal pulled back a consolation marker back late. It looked like it would be nothing much to trouble Port Moody until another late marker finally brought some excitement to this one. A frantic finish including the classic goalie keeper coming up for the last gasp corner kick failed to produce any further scoring and Port Moody held on.

Langley 0-2 Abbotsford - Pakenham Cup
The Pak cup was a much more even affair. Langley were carrying the balance of the early play and were nearly rewarded with a goal when big Brent Wiens, who was proving to be a handful to deal with for the Abby back line, was stopped point blank by a great save from the Abbotsford keeper. Despite seeing less of the ball, Abby looked very dangerous on the counter and continued to create half chance on just about every trip down the field. It was one of these counter attacks that led to the opening goal as Langley keeper Andrew Hicks could only parry an initial shot and the rebound was slammed home from close range by Abbotsford's Connor O'Neil before half time.

Things were finely poised coming out from the break and Abby nearly doubled their advantage inside 10 minutes. A lovely run through midfield and into the box ended with a shot that deflected off a defended foot a rippled the netting, however, it was on the outside of the goal, not the inside. As we hit the hour mark Langley were beginning to commit more and more men forward, but they could not solve the Abby defense. Of course this left them further exposed to the Abbotsford counter attack and the chances to find the crucial second were mounting. Half chances, partial breakaways and a crossbar all saw it stay a one goal game. The potential TSN turning point came when Abby earned a penalty. Surely it was to be 2-0, but instead Hicks made the save on a poorly placed shot from the spot. Fortunately for Abbotsford, they were not made to pay for their wastefulness. In fact, they scored on their next attack to finally put this one out of reach and win the first major trophy in recent history.
 

cascadesoccer

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Around the Grounds at FVSL Cup Finals Day

With a break before Provincials I thought I would take in the FVSL's two top competitions. The VMSL certainly got the better weather for their All Cups Day as last week's sunshine had been replaced by a mixed bag of rain, wind and sun, plus lower temperatures. Obviously the hope was that the action on the field would help heat things up. With the two matches starting within half an hour of each other I was trying to decide how best to keep an eye on both, but fortunately there did not end up being much of a conflict...

Port Moody 3-2 Coastal - SC Cup
Port Moody came flying out of the traps and took advantage of a Coastal team that was evidently not ready to play in this one. A pair of quality finishes had the Gunners up 2-0 inside five minutes. A third strike made it 3-0 by the 15 minute mark and essentially ended this one before the Pakenham Cup even kicked off. There were few further shouts from that field until Coastal pulled back a consolation marker back late. It looked like it would be nothing much to trouble Port Moody until another late marker finally brought some excitement to this one. A frantic finish including the classic goalie keeper coming up for the last gasp corner kick failed to produce any further scoring and Port Moody held on.

Langley 0-2 Abbotsford - Pakenham Cup
The Pak cup was a much more even affair. Langley were carrying the balance of the early play and were nearly rewarded with a goal when big Brent Wiens, who was proving to be a handful to deal with for the Abby back line, was stopped point blank by a great save from the Abbotsford keeper. Despite seeing less of the ball, Abby looked very dangerous on the counter and continued to create half chance on just about every trip down the field. It was one of these counter attacks that led to the opening goal as Langley keeper Andrew Hicks could only parry an initial shot and the rebound was slammed home from close range by Abbotsford's Connor O'Neil before half time.

Things were finely poised coming out from the break and Abby nearly doubled their advantage inside 10 minutes. A lovely run through midfield and into the box ended with a shot that deflected off a defended foot a rippled the netting, however, it was on the outside of the goal, not the inside. As we hit the hour mark Langley were beginning to commit more and more men forward, but they could not solve the Abby defense. Of course this left them further exposed to the Abbotsford counter attack and the chances to find the crucial second were mounting. Half chances, partial breakaways and a crossbar all saw it stay a one goal game. The potential TSN turning point came when Abby earned a penalty. Surely it was to be 2-0, but instead Hicks made the save on a poorly placed shot from the spot. Fortunately for Abbotsford, they were not made to pay for their wastefulness. In fact, they scored on their next attack to finally put this one out of reach and win the first major trophy in recent history.
Any word on the Masters A and B? Heard Dynamo won the presidents 3-0
 

Sir M

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I watched the Masters final for about the first 20 or 30 and no score, Port Moody had them pinned down most the time. Ref missed a clear peno right in front of him...actually didn't miss, just gagged on making the call it looked like. Port Moody called for others but there was just the one.
 
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