Premier FVSL - UPL Weekly Reports

Discussion in 'FVSL' started by Masry, Sep 5, 2018.

  1. dezza

    dezza Well-Known Member

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    Maybe it has more to do with the organization training, assessing, and promoting them than the pay
     
  2. Dude

    Lifetime Better Bastard

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    Frankly both and even more than than that. And beyond now with the MLS / CPL lure.

    I do think wage is a big part though. Being a ref is a shite job, takes a certain personality, never mind competency. I know it’s not for me.
     
  3. Canucks4Ever

    Canucks4Ever Well-Known Member

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    Money might help, but, as we saw with the previous pay increase two seasons ago, it does not result in an uptick in quality officials suddenly flooding into the system. You just end up with mostly the same guys with their hands out demanding more cash.

    The problem definitely stems from supply vs. demand. There are SO MANY games each weekend between the youth and adult leagues that need officials that schedulers do not really have the luxury of being picky.

    BC Soccer is working on a system to develop more referees, but it is a slow process. One issue is that there are not enough quality officials to help train the new ones which can result in a situation of the blind leading the blind for lack of a better term; though this is slowly starting to improve.

    Also, just like players, you need to put young officials in environments to test themselves, while protecting them at the same time. Because of the lack of respect for officials (some of it unfortunately warranted...) that has become ubiquitous with soccer culture, the amount of abuse that a referee takes on a weekly basis, particularly at the adult level, is absurd and BC Soccer wants to protect young officials from that.
     
  4. Dude

    Lifetime Better Bastard

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    You expected it to improve overnight? LOL.

    Even with drastic changes - including pay increase- none of the current players will see a noticeable improvement. It’ll take a full generation to see something positive.
     
  5. Canucks4Ever

    Canucks4Ever Well-Known Member

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    Agree re the time line for improvement. But my point is I don't think money is the biggest issue. $80 or $90 for an hour and a half's worth of work is not nothing and, from the research I have done, soccer referees are compensated better than most of their local amateur officiating compatriots.

    For me the crux of it comes down to communication and conflict resolution. If you look at the top leagues on TV, the referees are always talking to the players, sometimes jovially, other times seriously. The result is a report that develops between players/managers and officials. That gives an official more clout and ability to be trusted. This is sports, it is going to get heated. You have to be able to have a rational conversation with people who have a different opinion. Coaches and players are well within their rights to lament a decision they feel has gone against them, so long as they do not say anything profane or disparaging; perhaps they are trying to influence the next call. Referees need to be able to manage that without immediately seeking to escalate a conflict. Disagreement is not necessarily disrespect. I see this far too often in games at the local park. A coach is upset/frustrated, yells "COME ON" or "NO WAY" etc. in the moment and referees immediately engage and the situation escalates. The best referees I have worked with/seen have always managed these situations by reaffirming their decisions, but letting the players/coaches vent within reason. If it starts to go too far, they have a quick word saying "look, fair enough, you didn't like it, but it's not up for discussion and you've had your moan so let's get on with it."

    However, coaches and players would be well advised to pick their moments. A throw in at midfield is unlikely to influence the game, so is it really worth belabouring? Offside are often contentious, but if it was at least somewhat close and the referee is by himself, can you reasonably expect 100% accuracy? If you go into a hard challenge and the referee blows the whistle with you claiming you got "all ball" you should know that was the risk you were taking by going into a challenge like that in the first place. Plus it goes back to what @bulljive said about holding amateur soccer referees to an unreasonably high standard. The quality of soccer on display is hardly world class, so the refereeing, while needing to be competent, should be measured by an appropriate level of expectation.

    The adult leagues (or at least the FVSL and VMSL) have a smaller pool of officials doing top games. I would like to see more transparency with this group (ie: a published list) and some sort of list of standards (think grading rubric) that these officials are held to. Then the list would turnover every say two months and names would be added/subtracted based on performance, evaluations, assessments. Perhaps even basic refereeing statistic for top level games similar to what is available when you are watching a game on TV. Simple enough to click on a referee from the elite group's name and see he has done 7 Premier/Div. 1 games so far this season and given out 3 reds and 8 yellows. We can track goals and discipline for players, so surely this would be easy enough. Then the leagues could see trending with their officials and if someone is giving out what looks to be a higher than average number of cards, the league could investigate further. Was it one outlier game where the cards were warranted? Or is this official perhaps too quick to go to the pocket? Maybe the league sends someone to watch his next game and evaluate, etc. Plus teams can see beforehand, hey this guys is liberal with the yellows, let's keep that in mind. More transparency and more information I think would result in a better overall experience for everyone.
     
  6. Dude

    Lifetime Better Bastard

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    OK, I'm not going to write a novel, here are my bullets:
    ~At the rout of almost all organization issues, it's money as problem #1. Either too little spent in development, too little in comp, or both.
    ~it's not 1.5 hours, it's 1.5 hours, plus driving time, plus report time, and that report can take well over an hour if there were major issues in the match. So, breaking it down to let's say 4 hours in the Valley, 3.5 hours in the city, now we are $20-25 / hour. Not bad, but frankly, if you want extra work, become a good framer. No bitching, moaning, threats, sometimes death threads, dealing with fcuked supporters who chase you to your car. Yeah, that $25/ hour in no way looks attractive- especially if you want guys in their prime.
    ~Pay more and you can demand higher accountability at the BCSA levels. Pay less, get what you pay for.

    Whenever this comes up, everyone's first objection is paying more for shite. If that's your opinion, fine, but don't expect any better. Guys Like Kevin Uppal and Walker are in fact the outliers...guys that generally do a great job, are well liked, and like what they are doing despite the fact the money really isn't worth the headaches, abuse, and time hassle.
     
  7. Regs

    Staff Member Total Bastard

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    Sounds like Bobby Brown and I don't mean Whitney.
     
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  8. akslop

    akslop Well-Known Member

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    What about Tax Write offs? Cough Cough
     
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  9. Jack13

    Jack13 New Member

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    Abby 2 Surrey 2
     
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  10. Jack13

    Jack13 New Member

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  11. Dude

    Lifetime Better Bastard

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  12. Regs

    Staff Member Total Bastard

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    Lion?

    LFC 123456
     
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  13. Dude

    Lifetime Better Bastard

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    Wow! Didn’t even see that. $125?

    What did you do?
     

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