Hargreaves & Alex McKechnie

[bulljive]

I'm sorry, those who criticize Hargreaves for the choices he has made to put him in the position he is in today, puzzle the crap out of me. If there ever was a no-brainer decision to be made, the one Hargreaves made, is it!! To even discuss the details around it is a complete waste of time.

Also, it doesn't matter what the Canadian staff coaches told him. The man believes in himself and that is why he is so successful and making his come-back. And when Alex McKechnie says you are good to go, you are good to go!

You realize the article where Alex McKechnie says he is "good to go" was in 2010, he was telling the papers Owen was ready etc. He played four minutes and tore his hamstring after that article, then his shoulder after that. Hopefully he can stay healthy for a significant stretch of time because he deserves it. Alex is clearly a top physio but some guys are more prone to injury.

On the national front he made the right decision for himself. However a true Canadian would have been cut, worked his bag off and made made the team eventually, proving the coach wrong. 1 coach didn't want him and everyone acts like they where there "you will never make this team Owen." I doubt those words were ever said. Maybe they just didn't see it at the time, clearly they were wrong but MJ was cut in grade 8, did he change schools?.

 

[TulioMaravilha]

I know he isn't the only player to do it but end of the day the ruling is wrong, you should be forced to play for the country you was born in, that's what nationality you are not where your parents were born or where you've lived for 5 years.

Should stay out of this, but you're oversimplifying the issue, blues. Without getting too far legalese about it, there are 2 main ways nationality is determined, jus soli (where you're born) and jus sanguinis (from whom you're born). According to Wikipedia, less than 20% of the world countries observe jus soli. It just happens that pretty much all countries in the Americas do. In many places in the world, being born in the country is no guarantee of nationality if your parents are not nationals to begin with. FIFA or IOC rules cannot be taken in isolation of this fact.

 

[djones]

1 coach didn't want him and everyone acts like they where there "you will never make this team Owen." I doubt those words were ever said. Maybe they just didn't see it at the time, clearly they were wrong but MJ was cut in grade 8, did he change schools?.

Could MJ afford to change schools at that time? I highly doubt it! Besides, wasn't he at the top basketball school in the state?

The problem is with the system in Canada - now and then. Because there is only one pipeline to soccer success in this country (through the PTP/NTC and now the Whitecaps) and these coaches 'opinions' carry so much weight - as they still do today - it makes for huge frustration, resentment and a 'I'll show you' mentality in players AND parents. In hockey, young players don't carry resentment because:

a) Canada has the best developmental system in the world and every young Canadian hockey player WANTS to be apart of it. Anywhere else would be a step down - unlike the NTC program where anywhere else would be a step up!

b) There is 57 major junior teams that are developing talent for the NHL plus scores of other tier two leagues that are also developing talent. The top hockey leagues in the world are scouting these players in these leagues so making the Canadian junior team DOESN'T have to be a MUST! It can be an HONOUR. Making the Canadian U17/U20 is a must for any player to get noticed for the NT or to have on their CV to attract interest from top leagues in Europe.

To get noticed for the CNT Program teams you have to be in the NTC. To be in the NTC you have to be in the PTP. If the PTP isn't doing a great job of evaluating talent it breaks down the system. BC is struggling to get talent into the NT set up. Problem? ME thinks so!

If you didn't have direct relatives or family in Europe, you will have to play a ridiculous amount of games for the NT to get papers to work in those countries. If you can't break into the set up for any of a variety of reasons, how do you get a job in Europe? Not as easy as you think. With the new FIFA rules of players having to be over 18 to be able to go to Europe on their own, this route of going over at 14/15/16 years of age like Craig Forrest, Jonathan De Guzman etc... did that increased their chances back in the day is now gone. Hargreaves would have had to go to England rather than Germany and things could have been drastically different. As an immigrant parent, If your child was told that he wasn't good enough for Canada but good enough to make one of the top teams in the world, wouldn't you begrudge this system? And then to be ask to play for the biggest hyped-yet-underachieving National teams in the world that you were born in and support, you'd still say no? I doubt it.

Count how many players on our NT that have U17/U20 experience and then look at other countries. It's much lower in other countries even though they play more games and have more call ups. Why? Out of sight, out of mind. These 'finds' never appear in Canada because we recognize players at young ages usually due to size and the ones out of the system struggle to get notice. They usually have to go outside the system that has ignored them and then people are pissed that they passed on the opportunity to play for the country that forced them away to achieve their dream.

Whoever thought that by 16 you could identify who was going to be successful NTC player and who wasn't is totally dillusional. Spotting a Messi is EASY! Finding a gem that needs to be polish takes real talent... and we don't have it! Stitch was telling me that the NHL teams spends over $90 million all together on scouting alone.

One of the best strikers in the world right now is David Villa for Barcelona. He never made the U16, U17, U18 or U20 Spanish teams.

Villa admitted that he came close to giving up football at the age of 14 after growing disillusioned and falling out with his coach. However, thanks to his parents' encouragement, he persisted in pursuing his dream, realising his talent could earn him a living.

"In those days I was a nobody, not earning a penny and after being made to sit on the bench all season I just wanted to get away and play with my friends" he said. "But my dad always supported me and cheered me up until my career turned round."

He went on to begin his footballing career at UP Langreo and when he turned 17 he joined the Mareo football school.

If he was in Canada and had the same history with our National Program, he'd have been written off and wouldn't have been recognized as a potential talent.

Besides, they would have wrote him off years ago because he's 'too small' for our program as I'm sure most of his Barcelona team mates would have been too.

Because Spain has a developmental system like Canada Hockey does, Villa would have no real reason to begrudge the system and want to leave and play somewhere else.

Do I blame Hargreaves? No. I blame the system. It's horrible!

 

[lean]

Well, if anything, my comment got the longest response in TTP history. Well done Jonsey.

I am a proud Canadian and I will always be disappointed when someone chooses to play for another country instead of Canada. I have blinders on regarding this issue but I know it.

 

[bergamascho]

Well, if anything, my comment got the longest response in TTP history.

Not even close.

 

[striker14]

nasty tackle from Torres
red card

 

[Captain Shamrock]

nasty tackle from Torres
red card

Was that Alex McKechnie's fault or Owen Hargreaves?

 

[trece verde]

Was that Alex McKechnie's fault or Owen Hargreaves?

From striker14's perspective, if a ManUre player gets fouled, it would be their families' fault too...

 

[striker14]

ok, ok, i get it...wrong thread...geez!

 

[4thplacetrophy]

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