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Is BC Youth Soccer Okay? Apparently so...this year

djones

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Ballbaby,

BC's '92's owned that age group with your terrific team winning at U16's and now the Dynamo winning at U18.

Good teams come from good competition!

Funny how the more things change the more they stay the same. Your rivalry with CMF Dynamo is/was as fierce as my little CMF Barca team has with your SGU team that just finished 4th at nationals. They knocked us out in the provincial semis after we took the league title. It should continue to get better as they get older.

Well done to Jim and the SGU boys.

Regs,

The investment that most big clubs now put in to their programs is huge. At the youth level (U14 and down) it can go from anywhere to 4-5 days a week. As they get older, training time decreases and that's where we slowly slide down the developmental path. While the rest of the world increases training time at this age, we do the opposite. The work you put in is the results you get out. It is starting to change...
 

djones

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Bronco

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Kevin Muldoon is still involved??? WTF?? This guy was filling water bottles at the camps I attended, and we all thought he was a dinosaur then! :confused:


:bronco:
 

Regs

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If it helps the "BC" quotient at all, I believe Mark Parker (TD/HC of LUYSA) has recently been named to the coaching staff of the U17s
 

Regs

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They just announced the CMNT U17 and U15 roster for the up coming camps and BC has a total of 2 players, one on each team. It list 4 Whitecaps players but only one of them is from BC (another issue for another day).

CanadaSoccer.com | Official Site of the Canadian Soccer Association
CanadaSoccer.com | Official Site of the Canadian Soccer Association

Really? We're that weak in BC? The U15 team looks like an Ontario provincial team. Coach for both teams are from... back east.

Surprised?
Just did some quick reading up on this... with regards to the U17 team, here's the breakdown of Canada's 3 professional club contributions:

Vancouver - 3
Montreal - 4
Toronto - 5
 

Jigsaw

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Can anyone explain why there is not one player on the latest Canadian U23 Team from BC?
Have we gone so far backwards that we cannot develop at least 1 player from the BCSA All Star Program?
What has happenned to BC? We used to have at least 50% of the National Team from this Province.
Who is responsible for this?
Who, if anyone is held accountable?
Do the Director's at BCSA ever question who is running this program, and why is it failing and how can it be fixed?
It is quite obvious that something is wrong here, we have not done well in All Star National Competition for a good few years now.
This has to raise a red flag.

Jigsaw
 

Captain Shamrock

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I'll guess the best players aren't all playing for the Provincial teams.........possibly something to do with the ridiculous amount of money they have to pay to play? Just throwing that out there.
 

djones

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I've coached and traveled up and down the west coast playing in some of the top tournaments against some of the top teams over the last 6 years and I get tired of people saying how good teams are than us and how far advanced they are than us without considering the obstacles we face.

Here is a list of registered players in Region IV

  • Alaska 8266
  • Arizona 28437
  • California No. 212348
  • California So. 132991 (this doesn't include AYSO - 850,000!, US Club, or Hispanic league registered players)
  • Colorado 65008
  • Hawaii 5446
  • Idaho 11737
  • Montana 10861
  • New Mexico 20572
  • Nevada 13756
  • Oregon 50874
  • Utah 36000
  • Washington 121978
  • Wyoming 4841
What is are the BC numbers? We are nowhere close to the numbers of the big states.

They spend way more money on coaching and playing fees. I know coaches that are making upwards of $30 000 per team. They aren't always getting money for value.

They have districts but don't have an 'out of district' rule. The top teams at these tournaments have players driving upwards of 50 miles to play for these top teams year round - something you won't find here in BC.

No state teams taking players away during these big summer tournaments.

They bring in 'guest players' not only from their state, but from other states. This is frowned upon up here.

They play way more tournaments than we do and focus 10X's more on winning. NOT playing better - WINNING.

Besides teams that play in the Y League, US teams are usually anywhere from 1/2 to a full year older than our players. This makes a huge, HUGE difference!

There is a real undercurrent of dissatisfaction happening down there with the coaching and their inability to produce hundred's of Landon Donovan's and the absence of a Messi. The system, according to the soccer experts down there, are very concerned. That's why they have changed their elite program to the Academy League and why a college like Akron, with a coach who has one of the smallest and skilled teams in college history, had more players drafted in the first round of the MLS draft. The University league, to these experts, is crap.

They are so concerned that US Soccer is putting out a soccer curriculum out later this year for clubs to follow.

I've never been "killed" by a team down there and other top coaches from around here with good teams will tell you the same thing. BC Provincial teams, the ones that we moan about, from time to time, play these regions ODP teams and fair quite well.

It gets tiring hearing that we're crap and they are all awesome from people who either haven't been down there with a team or haven't been down there in a long, long time.
 

TulioMaravilha

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Well said, DJones!

And maybe you won't point that up, but I will, that your U15 team has just captured a Super Y-League title defeating those powerhouses down South.
Oh, and wasn't CMF considered the top club in both boys and girls sides?
Not bad for a bunch of weaklings, eh?

And as for:

It is quite obvious that something is wrong here, we have not done well in All Star National Competition for a good few years now.

I quote myself (Jul/26/2010):

Fresh off the presses, the BC U14-Boys Provincial Team came back yesterday from Sherbrooke, QC, with the gold medal after beating Nova Scotia, Ontario, Alberta and Manitoba on their way to the National title. The U16-Boys brought back bronze while on the girls side BC finished second on U14 and third on U16.

I enjoy bitching about how crappy our system is as much as the next guy but let's give a little credit where credit is due.
 

Jigsaw

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There is nothing wrong with the quality of player's here and they are as good as they've ever been.
The problem is, the best player's are not playing for the BC Select Teams and that has to be hurting their chances of being seen on the bigger stage, with a chance to be involved in the National Team Program.
We can win National Championships at club level, which Metro Ford has proven. Yet we struggle at the National level when the Provinces play each other.
What is the purpose of the BC Select Team Program?
Is it not to develop player's for the National Teams? If that is one of the functions of the program, we are failing miserably.
I am aware that the U14's won,that's great, but what about the U16's?
They won 1 game and lost 3.They are the same every year, but no changes to the Staff.
I have coached at the U16 level Metro and have never had a phone call, nor seen anyone scouting player's.
I am at games every weekend and I see the quality of the player's that we have and they are very good.
Why are the best player's not representing their Province?
It used to be an honour to be in the program.
In the 1980-1990 era, we had 57% of player's on National Teams from BC, what is it now? 5%?
I know that it is easy to critisize, but there has to be a solution to this. First thing, though, we have to admit that there is a problem, then we have to set about fixing it.
Throw the ego's out of the window and let us get some constructve critisism here and some ideas for the solution.
Canada is now around 101 in the World standings and 9th. in CONCACAF. It is a National disgrace.
BC is certainly not helping, when we cannot provide any player's for the team.
Open your eyes everyone, there is a problem here. If you can't see that, what chance do we have?
 

TulioMaravilha

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You raise valid points and I would be the last one to dispute that we underachieve in soccer.

When I moved here from Brazil I was amazed at the number of kids I saw playing soccer, not what I expected knowing how poorly Canadian teams fare in the International level. It makes no sense in my mind that Canada would struggle to qualify for a WC against teams from countries that do not have the resources or population we have. Sure Honduras, Guatemala, etc. have a soccer culture we don't but, frankly, that's not a good excuse, as we do have a fair number of committed players (and families) here to more than equal their numbers.

As for player quality, believe me, at the younger age groups we're as good as anyone. My kids (not born, but raised locally) play at a high level here and my brother used to say that "they're good when compared to Canadians", meaning we all play like crap. He stopped with the BS when they went to play with a Brazilian team's soccer school and made their first team...Now, as players get older we fall behind and better minds than mine have tried to explain in this forum why and put forward ideas on what can be done to revert this.

I certainly agree that some of the structural defects in our system (pay to play, focus on results at early ages, multiple commitments to PTP, NTC, clubs, academies, etc.) are a hindrance to the development of our players. The establishment of the HPL kind of addresses some of the issues but not all of course. Baby steps, maybe, but IMHO a move in the right direction.
 

bravedart

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Well said, DJones!

And maybe you won't point that up, but I will, that your U15 team has just captured a Super Y-League title defeating those powerhouses down South.
Oh, and wasn't CMF considered the top club in both boys and girls sides?
Not bad for a bunch of weaklings, eh?

Not only CMF but Coastal FC and Mountain FC along with Coquitlam have consistently been ranked as the top 10 across the USL Super Y League (last season I think all three were in the top 6).

I also know that the Washington based teams hate ti when our clubs go down to compete in their tournaments. They hate playing us because we are usually the strongest opponent weather it is the Baker Blast or Sounders FC cup.
 

bravedart

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There is nothing wrong with the quality of player's here and they are as good as they've ever been.
The problem is, the best player's are not playing for the BC Select Teams and that has to be hurting their chances of being seen on the bigger stage, with a chance to be involved in the National Team Program.
We can win National Championships at club level, which Metro Ford has proven. Yet we struggle at the National level when the Provinces play each other.
What is the purpose of the BC Select Team Program?
Is it not to develop player's for the National Teams? If that is one of the functions of the program, we are failing miserably.

One would think that the sole purpose of the provincial team is to showcase some of the best talent in BC against some of the best talent from other similarly sized provinces in a National All-Star tournament so that our National team scouts have a centralized system for comparison of players coming through the system. The provincial coaches should spend 90 percent of their time identifying potential recruits for the PTP (and only at the National All Star Years) then bring these kids together into a 30 player training camp for 10 to 14 days then select the best 18 and head off to the All-Star tournament to compete. A simple process that, besides reducing costs significantly, would be fully endorsed by the soccer public.

The BC Soccer Provincial Team Program is currently operated as a Club that has to operate a better program than the rest of the community with extravagant and completely unnecessary travel arrangements...Germany and Mexico...seriously! With this as the current set up there is no way my kid will ever play for a provincial team. There are other ways to get noticed that don't require a second mortgage on the home.
 

bravedart

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As for player quality, believe me, at the younger age groups we're as good as anyone. My kids (not born, but raised locally) play at a high level here and my brother used to say that "they're good when compared to Canadians", meaning we all play like crap. He stopped with the BS when they went to play with a Brazilian team's soccer school and made their first team...Now, as players get older we fall behind and better minds than mine have tried to explain in this forum why and put forward ideas on what can be done to revert this.

I certainly agree that some of the structural defects in our system (pay to play, focus on results at early ages, multiple commitments to PTP, NTC, clubs, academies, etc.) are a hindrance to the development of our players. The establishment of the HPL kind of addresses some of the issues but not all of course. Baby steps, maybe, but IMHO a move in the right direction.

Our kids literally have nothing to play for after U15/16. They end up against the same opponents at U18 that they have played against since they were U14...there is no fresh challenge. I have always believed that we should abolish the top tier of youth soccer after U16 and blend the top kids into the U21 and then the senior divisions (unless they can compete at that level already). Fresh talent and fresh competition larger player selection pool and competition for spots. BC Soccer would see the U21 division become a serious concept and would better prepare our kids for our senior premier divisions. There are many opportunities for this to suceed - CIS and BCCAA coaches could operate reserve teams in this division to help nurture the kids who are on their radar and provide game time for player # 21 to 35 on their rosters. The 16 year old kids who has dreams of going somewhere can get experience against better 18, 19 and 20 years olds and in some cases against the overage players who may have already been somewhere.

I don't know. Personally I get so frustrated with the complete disconnect that exists between youth and senior soccer when there needs to be a blended progression that is understood by administrators and supported by all clubs.
 

bettermirror

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Not only CMF but Coastal FC and Mountain FC along with Coquitlam have consistently been ranked as the top 10 across the USL Super Y League (last season I think all three were in the top 6).

I also know that the Washington based teams hate ti when our clubs go down to compete in their tournaments. They hate playing us because we are usually the strongest opponent weather it is the Baker Blast or Sounders FC cup.

They hate it because they play in their leagues and dominate and can't handle it when a foreign team from "the lesser country" comes and beats them. I saw it first hand this summer. They make excuses when teams from OR or California beat them (referring to WA clubs) but when it comes to Canada they just get mad!
 

bettermirror

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Our kids literally have nothing to play for after U15/16. They end up against the same opponents at U18 that they have played against since they were U14...there is no fresh challenge. I have always believed that we should abolish the top tier of youth soccer after U16 and blend the top kids into the U21 and then the senior divisions (unless they can compete at that level already). Fresh talent and fresh competition larger player selection pool and competition for spots. BC Soccer would see the U21 division become a serious concept and would better prepare our kids for our senior premier divisions. There are many opportunities for this to suceed - CIS and BCCAA coaches could operate reserve teams in this division to help nurture the kids who are on their radar and provide game time for player # 21 to 35 on their rosters. The 16 year old kids who has dreams of going somewhere can get experience against better 18, 19 and 20 years olds and in some cases against the overage players who may have already been somewhere.

I don't know. Personally I get so frustrated with the complete disconnect that exists between youth and senior soccer when there needs to be a blended progression that is understood by administrators and supported by all clubs.

Excellent post. Although HPL will have a u17/u18 division, I wonder if this shouldn't become a u21 division? Yes, the disconnect between youth and senior has been so extremely poor. However, HPL is addressing that by requiring the HPL clubs to have clear youth to senior pathways.

I think you will see HPL clubs create their own adult leagues, to maintain the standard, and you just might see a u21 division grow from that - which may in time lead to the abolishment of the HPL u17/18 division. This may be that all HPL teams join Super 20? As it is an existing league with a serious carrot at the end. Maybe it is that HPL can also encourage all kids to move on to the PDL teams at Abby, Whitecaps, Highlanders, and maybe add one in Surrey or Coquitlam, making PDL the "top of the youth ladder" despite u23 being an "adult league." ??? Anyway....
 

djones

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As long as the CSA run's a National Championship at U18, we'll have U18s.

The HPL proposal has not dealt with the issue with U18 yet. It is a mess and I have no solution to it. The '94's may miss their national years at U18 next season.
 

Jigsaw

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Bravedart is spot on
There is no need to take the player's out of the club program to be in the BC Program. There are arguably better coaches in the clubs than they have at BC Soccer,yet they never get a chance to coach at a higher level.
The only reason that they used to have a program where the player's were kept as a squad for 3 months, was years back when there was no such thing a "summer soccer".
They had to keep the "All Star Player's" fit and ready for the Nationals,when the rest of the Country were in mid-season.
That is now redundant as the more serious player is playing year round.
The best player's should be scouted and identified by the coaches and have a 2 week camp to prepare them for the Nationals, then you will be getting the player's who are in form and not the ones selected in April and who have paid their money. Who can predict if a player who has paid up the fee of somewhere between $2500-$3000 will not be injured or out of form when the tounament is played.
There is no need to have to take this group away from the clubs and have trips at the player's expense to Mexico or the UK.
It is not making them perform any better at Nationals.
What they are saying by their actions of taking the player's out of the clubs, is "we can coach better than anyone else, no one else knows what they are doing".
There are more qualified coaches in the clubs now, who should be rewarded for their sucesses by coaching a Provincial Team.
I would have no problem having some of the Head Coaches at some of the clubs in BC,get a chance to step up and be noticed along with the player's that they themselves might be future National Team Coaches.

The Questions are still out there:
How can it be that we have no player's selected to the U23 National Team?
Who is reponsible for this?
What is the purpose of the Select Team Program?
How can we start to put things right and get back on track?
What has happened to oyr player development program over the last 10 years?

I am happy to see some good discussion on this topic.
If we don't speak up as "Soccer People",then we are part of the problem.
 

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