Div 2 [VMSL Div. 2] Predictions, Results & Banter 2018/2019

[FC Red Star]

Out of curiosity were you actually there for the match when it was made 4 - 4, then protested by Sierra -- leading to all this mess?

Sierra loves to get upset about stuff -- and VUFC are a bunch of annoying feisty kids. If it was made 4 - 4 in the final couple minutes, I'll bet Sierra woulda lost it - but again, I'm curious to know if anyone knows the actual details of what happened in the last 10 minutes of that game.

No, I was not at that game but according to the referee the game ended 4:4 (you can ask the league to see the match report). Sierra then protested because the referee wrongly applied one of the rules of the game. The VMSL Board "deleted" last 10 minutes of the game, annulled the goal Rangers scored, and ordered last 10 minutes of the game to be replayed.

Yes, Sierra had every right to protest the ref's decision and no one denies that. But, the game was apparently not abandoned; Sierra and Rangers finished all 90 minutes. If the game was abandoned when ref made a mistake I'd understand but the game was played in its entirety.
Referees make often atrocious mistakes (they are human after all). What is really such a big difference between ref's mistake to call a penalty shot when indeed an indirect free kick should have been awarded or, let' say, allowing a goal from a clear offside position (yes, please, I know the first one is considered material misinterpretation of the game and the other one ref's opinion but the outcome is the same).

This is amateur soccer, people work, change jobs, schools, they move. For VMSL Board to think that it is OK to replay last 10 minutes more than four months later and at the end of the season is totally ridiculous. Either team, for various reasons, may not be able to field the same roster (and VMSL rule 4.3 specifies that it has to be the SAME roster, etc).
Yes, Sierra would feel cheated if the result 4:4 was registered on Nov.7, 2018 but, hey, how many times Sierra or any other team got screwed up by some other big refs' mistakes? It happens almost every game especially in a division that does not have linesmen. Again, this is amateur soccer so let's not try to apply some of those "special" rules like "replaying a portion of the game".

I am absolutely sure that replaying a portion of the game the next day (let alone four months later) would also be an issue because, again, the teams may not be able to have the same roster. Having said that, all I am saying is that VMSL rule re replaying any portion of the match does not make any sense whatsoever in an amateur league and it should never be applied. That is why Sierra - Rangers game should have been registered 4:4 (the game was completed, all 90 minutes were played) or new 90 minutes rescheduled (no later than a week later) if ref's mistake really ruined the integrity of the game.

Of course, there were similar cases in the past (replaying portion of the game) but it has never happened before that until this year in Division 2 Pool B there is 3-team race for a promotion and one of those 3 teams has 3 games in hand at the end of the season!!! That alone makes the competition unfair.

As I mentioned in my previous post, Rangers and 13th Legion (let's put pride aside) really have no reason to fight for points in those make-up games. It would be completely different story 2 or 3 months ago.
Of course, as I also mentioned, what if Sierra cannot field the same roster? Are they going to lose 3 points? They should according to the rules but would that make any sense? Of course it would not.

To finish, the league screwed up big time. Those things were not a big deal in the past because never before was such a close race for a promotion. Some make up games in the past were cancelled completely because there was really no point to play them. This year they mean something so that is why we have this situation.

I do not care who is promoted and who is relegated. I am just trying to point out illogical decisions by the league that are affecting the competition.

 

[Joe321]

Can someone clarify the prov B cup qualification process? @Canucks4Ever, i read your post a while back on who goes through so that's clear, but what's the mid-Jan standings have to do with it? AKA, as of NOW, who still has a shot at qualifying? So far (as i understand it) qualified teams include: NK Hrvat, Metropolitan (div 2 cup finalists), Strikers, Serbia, Westside (guaranteed to finish top 2 in their pools)
Cheers

 

[Canucks4Ever]

Can someone clarify the prov B cup qualification process? @Canucks4Ever, i read your post a while back on who goes through so that's clear, but what's the mid-Jan standings have to do with it? AKA, as of NOW, who still has a shot at qualifying? So far (as i understand it) qualified teams include: NK Hrvat, Metropolitan (div 2 cup finalists), Strikers, Serbia, Westside (guaranteed to finish top 2 in their pools)
Cheers

Happy to help.

You are correct, 5 of the 7 spots are now spoken for. What happens the rest of the way essentially comes down to how Metropolitan finishes out their league schedule.

If Metropolitan finish in the top three of 2A, then Shaheen, who are destined to finish third in 2B are in along with whoever the other top three team is in 2A. If Metropolitan finish outside the top three of 2A then they are still in (by virtue of reaching the cup final) with the final two spots going to the second place team in 2A and the winner of a playoff between third place in 2A and Shaheen.

If you are keeping an eye on the standings, you can eliminate all of 2B (outside of Sierra, Serbia and Hrvat who have already qualified) except for Shaheen who are waiting to see if they are in automatically or if they will need to playoff. In 2A one of Meraloma and Twin Arrows WILL qualify by either finishing second or third behind Metropolitan. The only way they could both make it would be for both of them to finish above Metropolitan and then to have the third place finisher beat Shaheen in the aforementioned playoff.

Hope that helps!

Also, of note, relegation is now just about set. GN North Delta and BCT Hurricane Tigers are headed down. Bombastic lost to Meraloma today, confirming them as second bottom in 2A. They are now waiting for Greencaps B to play their final league match against 13th Legion. If Greencaps can pick up a point (or three) then Bombastic will playoff against Gastown to stay in Div. 2. If Greencaps lose, they will then playoff against Gastown with the winner being safe while the loser will play in the do or die match against Bombastic.

 

[Joe321]

Right on - Thanks again!

 

[Canucks4Ever]

So we will have to have a pre-playoff playoff in Division 2, though in 2B rather than 2A where it had been looking likely for the last month.

Greencaps B threw away an early 2-0 lead and lost to 13th Legion last night. It would appear their frustrations at conceding a late goal to succumb to defeat when a draw would have been enough to secure their place in Div. 2 for next year boiled over, as things look to have got heated in the late stages. Never ones to back down, the Legion it would seem were willing partners and finished their second match in a couple of weeks by taking a flurry of red cards.



Greencaps will now play Gastown with the winner being staying up while the loser of that one will have one last chance at salvation when they cross over to play Bombastic from 2A in the relegation playoff. The last minute meltdown by Greencaps might have serious consequences with it looking like they will have no few than three players suspended for the showdown with Gastown.

 

[Macho Man]

Did Greencaps overreach trying to field two teams?

Seems like they'd be able to put out one killer Div 2 team but have been massively stretched as this season has progressed. Their production line of Irish guys fresh off the plane means they'll always have new talent, but those guys are often only here for a year or two before heading home

 

[dezza]

Midtable div1 is perfectly respectable. While having the B team in a relegation battle is not ideal, it would hardly be a disaster if they went down seeing as they only just came up from D3 anyway.

 

[Canucks4Ever]

Meralomas 3-0 win over Rino's last night booked them the final place in the Provincial Cup.

 

[Astro FC]

Greencaps will now play Gastown with the winner being staying up while the loser of that one will have one last chance at salvation when they cross over to play Bombastic from 2A in the relegation playoff. The last minute meltdown by Greencaps might have serious consequences with it looking like they will have no few than three players suspended for the showdown with Gastown.

I take it the answer to this might be obvious - but why does Gastown have to play this game? Surely the Greencaps guys would have thought that they were safe with a single point, but upon losing, must have thought they were gonna go see Bombastic. Shouldn't the formula for tiebreakers apply to determining the penultimate team? In this case, Gastown based on Goal Difference is 3rd from bottom.

 

[FC Red Star]

Both games between Gastown and Greencaps were ties (3:3 both games) and that is probably the only tie-breaker. Logically, the goal difference should be another tie-breaker but the league probably does not have that one specified as a tie-breaker.

 

[dezza]

Why don't you guys read the rules which are clearly posted on the VMSL site instead of speculating?

 

[Canucks4Ever]

Why don't you guys read the rules which are clearly posted on the VMSL site instead of speculating?

Indeed. I feel like I say this every year but, this is the VMSL - the league where goal difference DOES NOT MATTER.

Per Rule 6.2, the first tiebreaker for everything in the VMSL (promotion, relegation, Provincial Cup spots) is a head to head playoff. If the league deems there is not enough time for a playoff (ie Provincials are starting) then they have a tiebreaker formula under Rule 5.3.

In this case there is plenty of time (none of these teams are involved in Prov. Cup) so Gastown and Greencaps will each get two chances to win one more game and retain their Div. 2 status.

 

[Areyoureadyforsomesoccer]

Looks like Sierra’s game against VUFC has been changed back to 4-4 since it no longer mattered.

 

[FC Red Star]

Looks like Sierra’s game against VUFC has been changed back to 4-4 since it no longer mattered.

Good decision but a few months late! Would that game be registered 4:4 if Serbia managed to beat Sierra?

Anyway, Serbia vs Sierra was a feisty affair in which, it certainly looks so, the main figure was a man in yellow jersey:

 

[Regs]

Good decision but a few months late! Would that game be registered 4:4 if Serbia managed to beat Sierra?

Anyway, Serbia vs Sierra was a feisty affair in which, it certainly looks so, the main figure was a man in yellow jersey:

The opening with the roid monkey motoring down the track is mint!

 

[Canucks4Ever]

Good decision but a few months late! Would that game be registered 4:4 if Serbia managed to beat Sierra?

Anyway, Serbia vs Sierra was a feisty affair in which, it certainly looks so, the main figure was a man in yellow jersey

Sources tell me that no, the game was only registered as 4-4 because all parties agreed and match completion was no longer relevant.

Thanks for the highlights, you could definitely tell there was a lot on the line in this one. As for the referee, Rubin is never afraid to make the "big calls", that is for sure. Looks like he got the penalty correct; disaster of a challenge by the fullback, mistimed and clipping the foot of the attacker. Absolutely no reason to try and make a tackle there where the guy is contained on the edge of the area. The three yellows for tackles to Serbia were easily yellows, but the two second yellows that resulted in the sending offs are certainly up for debate.

The first one is a foul on the goalkeeper, no doubt, as the Serbia man is clearly late, contacting the goalie after he clears it. You could argue that the attacker had every right to challenge for the cross and that it should be just a foul and not a booking, but, at the same time, it is probably a first yellow so it might well be worthy of a second yellow. There are lots of VMSL referees who would not want to make a decision like that in a game like this, however Rubin is certainly not one of them. He has done plenty of big games in his day and he gave himself plenty of time to think before issuing the Serbia man his marching orders. My guess would be that part of it, in his mind, came down to game management. This was obviously a hotly contested match and if he doesn't give a yellow for that, what kind of door is he opening for further tackles and/or retribution from Sierra, especially if there keeper is injured. I don't think I would have given it personally, but the case can definitely be made and, on a yellow already, if you are going to put yourself in a position to have the referee make a decision, you always run the risk of him deciding against you. Could do with out the theatrical barrel roles from the Sierra goalie though.

Sending Ramsey off with a second yellow for persistent infringement is very harsh though. Yes Rubin gave him a clear warning for "no more fouls," but the challenge that saw him sent off looked like a fairly innocent coming together. None of the Sierra guys seemed particularly put off by it. You can hear Ramsey complain to Ruben that a challenge like that surely cannot be worthy of a second yellow. However, Rubin was entitled to send him off especially as he had given him a clear warning. One thing that has been a point of emphasis for officials in recent years is that, if you are going to give that warning, with the clear language and arm motions indicating no more fouls, you had better follow through and issue a yellow card if there is another infraction. So, sure, within his rights to send him off; but still incredibly harsh IMO.

 

[Areyoureadyforsomesoccer]

Sierra’s gk rolls about 7 times after being injured. Must have been a bad one!

 

[machel]

Sierra cry and dive too much.
Serbia foul too much.
Looked like a foul on the keeper for the second yellow. Having said that, the first yellow was terrible. Looks like the Sierra defender kicks the Serbia player on the follow through and his cries influence the yellow card.

The second red card is a shocker. Your whole season comes down to a do or die game and you get sent off for that?!? wow.

The miss on the open goal at 11:38 should have been given a red card.

 

[RL RCD]

I watched that game on Sunday and that was definitely one of the worst officiated games that I watched in years. Too many mistakes by Ruben which completely influenced and ruined the game. The penalty was a correct one though.

 

[Canucks4Ever]

Sierra cry and dive too much.
Serbia foul too much.
Looked like a foul on the keeper for the second yellow. Having said that, the first yellow was terrible. Looks like the Sierra defender kicks the Serbia player on the follow through and his cries influence the yellow card.

Ya tough to see on that first one as the camera pans away before any contact. Did the Sierra guy follow through and milk it? Or did the Serbia man leave his foot in cynically? Who knows...

In other news, Gastown are safe after beating Greencaps 3-1 last night.

Bombastic against Greencaps on Sunday; winner stays up, loser gets relegated to Div. 3.