Premier [VMSL Premier] Predictions, Results & Banter 2018/2019

[Leblue]

Also, I hope it's not too late to point out the obvious...and that is...had Campo been incentivized with post match ice cream cones I'm sure they would have put in a better effort. Shame.

Will be very interesting to see how Campo Atletico responds they will either have another couple blow out losses or they will make some effort for a couple of decent games.....
Looking at their scheldue tho with the next half a dozen games goals against could very well be in the triple digits.....

 

[Dude]

Why play players if you are getting promoted by default and barely winning from what it seems....

Wouldn’t be the first and not likely the last 1st div squad to pay players for a push up.

It’s local footy. Seen crazier.

 

[Leblue]

Wouldn’t be the first and not likely the last 1st div squad to pay players for a push up.

It’s local footy. Seen crazier.

From my understanding on this blog Campo Atletico only has very average players no real standouts....
So whoever they have been paying it must have been a bad investment.....

 

[Dude]

No idea, really just repeating a rumor.

 

[machel]

From my understanding on this blog Campo Atletico only has very average players no real standouts....
So whoever they have been paying it must have been a bad investment.....

To go from div.2 to Premier in 3 seasons. That's a pretty good investment if true.

 

[machel]

And its not like they are being paid $50,000 to play in VMSL.

you would be under bidding if this was the Price is Right.

 

[lego3]

How in the world do you loose 17-1?? I would like to hear game report, were they playing short with 7 players or something? You put the worse team in Div.3 and they wouldn't loose 17-1. This must be a record in VMSL premier? Does anyone recall a worse beating in recent years in premier?

Its such a North American way of thinking that they should be a mercy rule. Whats next? should Campo be getting participation trophies too? Good on Tigers for running the score!!

 

[dezza]

Last season CCB quit at half time when the score was already 7-0.

At least they had the excuse of playing with less than 11 players. That was not the case in the 17-1 game.

 

[Leblue]

To go from div.2 to Premier in 3 seasons. That's a pretty good investment if true.

In that case absolutely and not take anything away from promotion but if it was by default its just pure luck...
The teams true colors showed in premier......
Still a mystery as to why no marquee players have ever played for this team with almost every other team having one or two on their roster.....

 

[Regs]

Still a mystery as to why no marquee players have ever played for this team with almost every other team having one or two on their roster.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dever_Orgill

 

[Soccer Coach]

In response to some of the comments made,as a Hurricane player. thought we should give some insight

1) We started the game missing and resting a lot of our guys. Our centre mid played center back. Our left mid played left back. All of our role players played and some of our started didn’t start.

2) Campo tried to play and had three in the back. We exposed them over and over. If they wanted to they could have left 8 behind the ball but they kept wanting to play and kept getting exposed. Normally a team would adjust but they didn’t. They did not have any coaching on the sidelines. None of their players cared. At half time they were laughing.

3) This is the Prem league. The highest league in amateur soccer in the Province. This is not div 2 or div 3 or beer league or kids soccer. We are all men playing in this league. In La Liga Barcalona and Madrid hammer teams 8–0. 9-1. They don’t stop becuase they shouldn’t run up the score or apply the mercy rule. At any point Campo could have told the ref to stop the game. They didn’t. They kept playing and so did we. We asked the linesman if they wanted to stop and they did not.

4) At half time we put a central defender to play upfront and moved guys around to positions they don’t normally play.

5). I agree with Gilly. The league should consider dropping the number of teams in Prem. It is watered down.

6) We don’t apologize for the score line. Yes we felt sorry for the Campo players as they had no structure, no guidance, no system. However this is a competitive league. At Nationals, Yukon lost 11-0 to Manitoba. They didn’t decide to let up. As players we just want to play. Winning a game 17-1 is not fun. We are competitors and just compete regardless of the opponent and score.

Once again, thank you for providing a record of the events from inside of the field. I am sorry that this happened to your team. Games like this are a waste of resources and time for the soccer community.

The only thing that you or your team might consider doing is to approach the VMSL and have a record of the events. This might not feel useful at this moment, but it is important to keep records for future reference when changes are made.

As I said, this game can be traced back to having promotion/relegation battles that were routinely done outside the regular schedule. Yes, there is blame to have within the club leadership and coaching, but the issue is how it came to happen.

The VMSL can make rules and guidelines that could avoid or minimize the likelihood of this extreme cases (i.e. requesting the presence of coaching staff at all games in Premier, confirmation of full squads in advance, regular contact with teams to make sure that any club in distress can field a competitive number of players in their rosters, etc). At the end, this is a failure of leadership in the VMSL too.

A top and serious league, even if amateur, is responsible is to make sure that their top teams are stable institutions, so all players are provided with competitive meaningful games.

As for limiting premier to 8 teams, even if tempting is not the long term solution. The VMSL should try to provide support and guidance to the Premier and Division 1 teams so they can grow and become stronger. You want more and varied competition.

As a player and coach you want to face different playing styles, strategies, and opponents. This is the foundation of long term learning and the mastery of a subject or a skill.

 

[machel]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dever_Orgill

Not too shabby of a player.haha
Back in the day, the Polonia guys said he tried biking one in from 40yards and wasn't too far off. lol

 

[Zima]

From my understanding on this blog Campo Atletico only has very average players no real standouts....
So whoever they have been paying it must have been a bad investment.....

To be fair, although they may not have any "standouts" this season (haven't seen them play so I'll reserve comment), that was not necessarily the case as they went through successive promotions. Even last year, if memory serves, they had a few players quality players that helped them to avoid relegation. Perhaps not such a bad investment over the last couple of years at least?

The wheels definitely fell off this time around though but that being said, I believe that one of Campo's upper echelon players left them this summer to go play in Div. 2. Another one of Campo's better players from last year also went to go play for Rino's Ajyal Tigers of Saudi Arabia FC (shows up in their discipline/cards table). I also think that a couple went off to play at university.

 

[Soccer Coach]

Trying to dig for more information on this one and how it pertains to the earlier GNAC investigation. I will say, as always in these cases, the "facts" that are bubbling up are murky at best, so take with a grain of salt:

The earlier GNAC investigation into SFU has concluded without any official sanctions; however this issue is clearly on the radar with NCAA and could be revisited following any potential BC Soccer investigation. As a result, SFU players are not playing in the VMSL until the dust settles. Tough to blame them, given it could jeopardize their academic careers.

Separate from that investigation, a formal complaint has been, or is about to be, lodged with BC Soccer regarding specific teams in the VMSL paying players. I believe the teams targeted are CCB and Rino's Tigers.

The complaint is being levied by the FVSL and VISL, though the FVSL is apparently the driving force. After not feeling that BC Soccer was addressing their concerns on this matter nor taking them seriously in any way, the plan was to take the complaint to CSA. Upon hearing this, BC Soccer intervened and requested that the complaint be filed with them and promised to give the matter its full attention. Hearing of this potential complaint, I am told by one source that the VMSL reached out at the last minute and requested to sign on to the complaint as well. The VMSL joining the complaint required board approval and I do not know if the board agreed, therefore I am not sure at this stage if the VMSL formally joined the complaint or not.

The stated goal of the complaint is to level the playing field in terms of adult amateur soccer in the province and, to that end, I am told that the complainants feel that they have the support of at least four or five VMSL Premier teams. These teams are supposedly willing to go on the record with BC Soccer regarding CCB and Rino's allegedly poaching their players with offers of financial compensation. Whether or not they will actually provide evidence if contacted by BC Soccer I don't know. I have been unable to verify the nature of the VMSL team's involvement with the complaint through any of my team sources as of yet.

Best I can add at the moment, not sure if anyone else has some info to share. Doesn't sound like this one is going to go away quietly and we are already seeing some collateral effects in the SFU players not playing at the moment.

The question has always been one of evidence, so we will wait and see if anybody has something tangible that can be held against one of the clubs purported to be engaging in the alleged activities.

Thank you for providing this information. It think that is very valuable.

There are two serious issues that should be addressed.

1) @robino and @Dude are incorrect. The rules and laws of the CSA and FIFA over the years have been clear. As of 2015, this was the case:
"5.3 An amateur player is any person other than a professional player. An amateur player may not receive and retain any remuneration for playing except expenses directly related to a game or games which have actually been incurred by the player. In situations where an amateur player receives permitted consideration or remuneration as specified in these Rules, the player must produce a copy of the expense receipt whenever requested to do so by Canada Soccer."

We have a pool of players who can be getting proper and legal renumeration for their services in a semi-pro or lower professional level. Proper leagues should be created for these players. This is when true development will occur in the game. Paying players in an amateur league does not help those players in the long run. Providing a properly monitored and regulated league is in the best interest of those players.

The VMSL can not be acting as an 'amateur' and 'semi-pro' league at the same time. If it wants to continue this way, then it should withdrawn its teams from the BC amateur competitions.

In this respect, the FVSL is within their rights to launch protests and should be encouraged and thanked for doing so.

2) There is enough evidence that Tigers has been paying players. To make an analogy, if we see a person coming into a house with a knife, then we hear screams, and then we see the person leaving the house with blood. We can conclude that the person that came into the house was willing to commit a crime and committed the crime. We do not need to see the actual crime. Most importantly we are responsible to make sure that this does not happen again.
It is not good enough to said, you know I did not actually see the crime, so I am not going to after the person nor I will do anything in the future.

This has been the position of the VMSL. I know this because I had talks with Azzi about this and he explicitly said that unless he would see the actual payment, he would not do anything and that it was not a big deal anyway. Thus, the VMSL can not wash their hands on this issue.

When you see a team with huge roster changes, players flocking in large numbers to this team year after year, videos showing and bragging that they are a "professional team", then you have enough evidence to realize that something is wrong. You can launch investigations. You can put limit on the number of transfers or request coaches and administrators to provide reasons of why the rosters are so big.

You can ask coaches and administrators to sign forms that confirm that there is no payment of players and that failure to comply will result in heavy sanctions like dropping of points or expulsion.

You can send reminders to teams that this is not acceptable. You can even put it on the website that this practice is not endorsed. There are many things that the VMSL can do to make sure that this does not happen again.

My point guys is that in our desire to improve our local soccer we have done a huge disservice.
First, this payment of players in an amateur league have perpetuated a status quo and a system that has proven not to nurture players.
Second, it has sent a fundamental message that kills the game. Soccer is an 'amateur' game. THIS is the highest expression of the game. The working class player who LOVES the game and goes every weekend to play the game but has another job or no job. These are the TRUE roots of the game.
The professional game is a distortion of the real game that has to be protected and nourish. The Professional game is for entertainment, but it is not the REAL game. The problem with you guys is that you have it backwards.

 

[Leblue]

Thank you for providing this information. It think that is very valuable.

There are two serious issues that should be addressed.

1) @robino and @Dude are incorrect. The rules and laws of the CSA and FIFA over the years have been clear. As of 2015, this was the case:
"5.3 An amateur player is any person other than a professional player. An amateur player may not receive and retain any remuneration for playing except expenses directly related to a game or games which have actually been incurred by the player. In situations where an amateur player receives permitted consideration or remuneration as specified in these Rules, the player must produce a copy of the expense receipt whenever requested to do so by Canada Soccer."

We have a pool of players who can be getting proper and legal renumeration for their services in a semi-pro or lower professional level. Proper leagues should be created for these players. This is when true development will occur in the game. Paying players in an amateur league does not help those players in the long run. Providing a properly monitored and regulated league is in the best interest of those players.

The VMSL can not be acting as an 'amateur' and 'semi-pro' league at the same time. If it wants to continue this way, then it should withdrawn its teams from the BC amateur competitions.

In this respect, the FVSL is within their rights to launch protests and should be encouraged and thanked for doing so.

2) There is enough evidence that Tigers has been paying players. To make an analogy, if we see a person coming into a house with a knife, then we hear screams, and then we see the person leaving the house with blood. We can conclude that the person that came into the house was willing to commit a crime and committed the crime. We do not need to see the actual crime. Most importantly we are responsible to make sure that this does not happen again.
It is not good enough to said, you know I did not actually see the crime, so I am not going to after the person nor I will do anything in the future.

This has been the position of the VMSL. I know this because I had talks with Azzi about this and he explicitly said that unless he would see the actual payment, he would not do anything and that it was not a big deal anyway. Thus, the VMSL can not wash their hands on this issue.

When you see a team with huge roster changes, players flocking in large numbers to this team year after year, videos showing and bragging that they are a "professional team", then you have enough evidence to realize that something is wrong. You can launch investigations. You can put limit on the number of transfers or request coaches and administrators to provide reasons of why the rosters are so big.

You can ask coaches and administrators to sign forms that confirm that there is no payment of players and that failure to comply will result in heavy sanctions like dropping of points or expulsion.

You can send reminders to teams that this is not acceptable. You can even put it on the website that this practice is not endorsed. There are many things that the VMSL can do to make sure that this does not happen again.

My point guys is that in our desire to improve our local soccer we have done a huge disservice.
First, this payment of players in an amateur league have perpetuated a status quo and a system that has proven not to nurture players.
Second, it has sent a fundamental message that kills the game. Soccer is an 'amateur' game. THIS is the highest expression of the game. The working class player who LOVES the game and goes every weekend to play the game but has another job or no job. These are the TRUE roots of the game.
The professional game is a distortion of the real game that has to be protected and nourish. The Professional game is for entertainment, but it is not the REAL game. The problem with you guys is that you have it backwards.

Some excellent points but the perfect example when it comes " long term" goals is your team...
Couple of years of excellence and all of a sudden everything collapsed meaning something big had to happen for everything to go wrong....

 

[Macho Man]

Two seasons ago, Milad dropped down to Div. 2 to play for Tanoa (an otherwise awful team) then jumped back up to Premier on transfer deadline.

There's rotten stuff going on in VMSL regards paying players

 

[Canucks4Ever]

In that case absolutely and not take anything away from promotion but if it was by default its just pure luck...
The teams true colors showed in premier......
Still a mystery as to why no marquee players have ever played for this team with almost every other team having one or two on their roster.....

Not quite totally accurate...

Campo won their promotion from Div. 1 to Premier; it was their promotion from Div. 2 to Div 1 that they got by finishing as the next best team when Surrey Utd. created a vacancy.

As for marquee players, I suppose it depends on your definition, but they have employed (again depending on your definition of the term...) Ivan Colin who played semi-pro in the US and now plies his trade with Rino's and Dever Orgill who came up through the Whitecaps system for whatever it's worth.

 

[Leblue]

Not quite totally accurate...

Campo won their promotion from Div. 1 to Premier; it was their promotion from Div. 2 to Div 1 that they got by finishing as the next best team when Surrey Utd. created a vacancy.

As for marquee players, I suppose it depends on your definition, but they have employed (again depending on your definition of the term...) Ivan Colin who played semi-pro in the US and now plies his trade with Rino's and Dever Orgill who came up through the Whitecaps system for whatever it's worth.

Thank you for clarifying as I did not know that
When you say "employed" these where paid players?
And having a guy come from the states wow......

 

[Soccer Coach]

Some excellent points but the perfect example when it comes " long term" goals is your team...
Couple of years of excellence and all of a sudden everything collapsed meaning something big had to happen for everything to go wrong....

Yes, this a a very good example. Once, a project abandons the long term vision and goals then things start to crumble really fast.
Believe me, next time that I do it, I will not involve parents or players on the field in the leadership.
I also will start with much younger players. I really believed that anyone can learn at any age, but you really need a flexible and growth mindset to get rid of habits. It is my genuine opinion that most of those players were not "yet" ready to handle Premier. Specially the decision making and mental aspect. Endurance and to some degree skill can be passed to a player. Decision making and mental maturity are hard to internalize.

 

[Leblue]

Yes, this a a very good example. Once, a project abandons the long term vision and goals then things start to crumble really fast.
Believe me, next time that I do it, I will not involve parents or players on the field in the leadership.
I also will start with much younger players. I really believed that anyone can learn at any age, but you really need a flexible and growth mindset to get rid of habits. It is my genuine opinion that most of those players were not "yet" ready to handle Premier. Specially the decision making and mental aspect. Endurance and to some degree skill can be passed to a player. Decision making and mental maturity are hard to internalize.

You keep bringing the aspect of "Parents" quite often....
Wonder what had happened for all this to transpire its rather interesting......