Premier [VMSL Premier] Predictions, Results & Banter 2018/2019

[gellar]

Longtime lurker, finally had to sign up.

Re: paying players, glad something is finally being done about this. If anyone thinks this is limited to CCB and Rinos, they're fooling themselves. Numerous teams have paid players.. I find it hilarious that Campo is pointing the finger, considering they did pay players. One of their own stars was openly bragging about getting paid a couple seasons ago.

For those who complain about the lack of parity in the league, but then say there is no problem with players getting paid... seriously? Nothing is new this season -- it's just that CCB and Tigers have deeper pockets than any other Prem team. I have a lot of respect for Geoff, but the VMSL has just thrown their hands up for years about this... Rinos were doing it long before they merged with Tigers.. so are Shaheen... the list is far longer than that but I can only speak for my own experiences.

 

[bulljive]

I’m from the who cares camp. If you want to pay players to win an amateur league, I guess that’s your business. I find it a bizarre use of funds more then anything.

Has anyone heard anything about SFU players being investigated? I heard they aren’t allowed to play Men’s league or something of that nature and have been. Not sure if this is a NCAA regulation thing.

 

[soccer8]

Its probably the last thing i would spend my money on

 

[robino]

I would not spend any of my money either. However, who cares if someone is getting paid. Ask yourself why arent you the guy that someone wants to give the money to, to play soccer? A Scottish friend of my who played in 70’s for Croatia mentioned that even back then the club helped him out when they could. Pay for groceries, gas, or other expenses. No big deaL. Many ethnic teams help out their players espicially if they are new in Canada. That is actually something nice one can do.

 

[Sir M]

Unless of course you are laundering money.

 

[gellar]

I’m from the who cares camp. If you want to pay players to win an amateur league, I guess that’s your business.

Fair enough, but then we shouldn't be surprised when there is lack of parity in this league. This isn't grocery money either.. $250+/week for multiple players is a non-trivial amount of money. And of course this is all undeclared income, which is illegal.. but that's a whole other issue.

 

[18to18]

I'm sure some of the money flowing through to these players comes from an illegal source. Unless it's all coming from a very rich individual.

 

[Leblue]

Will be an interesting discussion on the 28th regarding players getting paid....
And about the SFU players apparently if they play in the VMSL it could mess with their scholarship or they could be found ineligible from my understanding....

 

[Ballbaby]

I never really cared if a player got paid or not. What I found interesting is that some of the alleged players who were getting paid when I played? They weren't worth it in my opinion. They played like mercenaries and their teams didn't win when it really counted. To me, it puts a team at a detriment more than an advantage if not handled correctly, which was the case the vast majority of the time. So, I'm indifferent, but if I was sitting on an executive board, I guess I would have to address the white elephant in the room. Even several years ago, the PCSL was considered a "professional league" and you could place online bets on the women's games. Maybe you still can. Crazy.

 

[Leblue]

Longtime lurker, finally had to sign up.

Re: paying players, glad something is finally being done about this. If anyone thinks this is limited to CCB and Rinos, they're fooling themselves. Numerous teams have paid players.. I find it hilarious that Campo is pointing the finger, considering they did pay players. One of their own stars was openly bragging about getting paid a couple seasons ago.

For those who complain about the lack of parity in the league, but then say there is no problem with players getting paid... seriously? Nothing is new this season -- it's just that CCB and Tigers have deeper pockets than any other Prem team. I have a lot of respect for Geoff, but the VMSL has just thrown their hands up for years about this... Rinos were doing it long before they merged with Tigers.. so are Shaheen... the list is far longer than that but I can only speak for my own experiences.

Is this their top player who is playing in division 2 at the moment...
Even on this thread in the past it has been mentioned that there was a few campo players who have shown people written contracts of being paid to play......

 

[bandcamp]

Any commentary from the Rinos camp about players being paid.....there are a couple of regular posters....

 

[FC Red Star]

However, who cares if someone is getting paid. Ask yourself why arent you the guy that someone wants to give the money to, to play soccer? A Scottish friend of my who played in 70’s for Croatia mentioned that even back then the club helped him out when they could. Pay for groceries, gas, or other expenses. No big deaL. Many ethnic teams help out their players espicially if they are new in Canada. That is actually something nice one can do.

There is only one problem with that - the tax man (CRA). One thing is to pay a registration for a player, team's fees, and transportation cost when travelling outside of Lower Mainland but entirely different thing is to pay players a few (or more) thousand dollars during season (for games played, goals scored, etc.) on which most (or all) of them never pay any taxes.

If CRA gets involved in this it could be quite interesting. Some will say that CRA does not have time to waste on relatively small amounts like these but it is interesting that referees at some bigger clubs are not being paid cash anymore (everything has to go through a bank account apparently) and, I heard, not sure if it is true, that the clubs will have to issue T4A to each referee they paid during the season.

 

[Dude]

I never really cared if a player got paid or not. What I found interesting is that some of the alleged players who were getting paid when I played? They weren't worth it in my opinion. They played like mercenaries and their teams didn't win when it really counted. To me, it puts a team at a detriment more than an advantage if not handled correctly, which was the case the vast majority of the time. So, I'm indifferent, but if I was sitting on an executive board, I guess I would have to address the white elephant in the room. Even several years ago, the PCSL was considered a "professional league" and you could place online bets on the women's games. Maybe you still can. Crazy.

This about covers what has been my opinion, but I'm open to an argument to sway me. Again, no idea how that would be enforced. Cash is cash, and if it is coming from an illegal source, the whole point is for it to disappear and the person funding it somehow gets some value out of the cash dispensed. Again, no paper trail, so who will declare the cash?

That, to me, is what I find confusing...who bloody well sees value is dishing out cash to a guy to play VMSL? Honestly, it's a stupid way to dispense of that cash, you have to have a serious hard-on for the local footy scene to care that much. I suppose if you just have so much of it you need to unload, then fair ball, but I'm not in that world and don't really get it.

 

[Soccer Coach]

I never really cared if a player got paid or not. What I found interesting is that some of the alleged players who were getting paid when I played? They weren't worth it in my opinion. They played like mercenaries and their teams didn't win when it really counted. To me, it puts a team at a detriment more than an advantage if not handled correctly, which was the case the vast majority of the time. So, I'm indifferent, but if I was sitting on an executive board, I guess I would have to address the white elephant in the room. Even several years ago, the PCSL was considered a "professional league" and you could place online bets on the women's games. Maybe you still can. Crazy.

1) The position of "I do not care if people gets paid". It is very common in the local soccer community. Here is where the problem lies. It DOES matter. It is important in many aspects, which I regret that people here do not understand or grasp.

"On September 27, 2017, the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the office of the United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York announced the arrest of 10 individuals, including assistant coaches Anthony Bland, Chuck Person, Emanuel Richardson, and Lamont Evans and Adidas executive James Gatto, on various corruption and fraud charges including bribery, money laundering, and wire fraud.[1][2][3] The schools implicated in the initial announcement were Arizona, Auburn, Louisville, Miami, Oklahoma State, South Carolina, and Southern California(USC).[1][2][3]

The investigation has since spread beyond the individuals and teams initially implicated.[5] Shortly afterwards, multiple media reports indicated that the Elite Youth Basketball League, the grassroots basketball division of Nike, was served with a subpoena by federal investigators. While Nike was not named in the initial documents, one of the 10 individuals arrested on September 26 was a former Nike executive who was working for Adidas when he was arrested.[6]"

It is a big deal if SFU players are getting paid in the VMSL, which it seems to have been the case.

2) Amateur competitions are designed for the enjoyment of people who have other jobs and careers. Their objective is not to help to produce professional soccer players.

Separate tournaments and leagues should be created for that purpose. When you pay a player in an amateur league you are not helping anyone in the long run. Amateur leagues help with the development of the culture of the game in society, and this might help the professional game indirectly,

Their primary purpose is not to launch players into professional or semi professional careers. The same for university leagues. People are going to their to get an education, skills, a variety of experiences (which includes playing sports). The goal is not to make them professional soccer players.

Why is this so hard to understand for you guys? Please @Dude. Explain why this can not be grasped? Take the example of Carlos Tevez and Luis Suarez. Those guys can barely read and write. They would have never made it in North America. A professional soccer player is a highly skilled worker in the production of specific tasks in the field. He or she does not need to be well rounded human individual, which is one of the purpose of amateur leagues and university leagues.

3) Please do not obscure the issue with false accusations about Campo Atletico and Derver and Ivan. Derver never played for Campo Atletico, and Ivan was a late addition who came out of his own volition due to cultural and ethnic bonds. There is no comparison with the issue of a foreign government sending thousand and thousands of dollars to a team so it can be used for propaganda purposes at home.

4) As for what so much is written about Campo Atletico, it is because it was a originally a project designed to question the status quo and herd mentality.
---------------------------------------
Jesus answered him, "Simon, I have something to tell you."

He said, "Teacher, say on."

"A certain lender had two debtors. The one owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty. When they couldn't pay, he forgave them both. Which of them therefore will love him most?"

Simon answered, "He, I suppose, to whom he forgave the most."

He said to him, "You have judged correctly." Turning to the woman, he said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I entered into your house, and you gave me no water for my feet, but she has wet my feet with her tears, and wiped them with the hair of her head. You gave me no kiss, but she, since the time I came in, has not ceased to kiss my feet. You didn't anoint my head with oil, but she has anointed my feet with ointment. Therefore I tell you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much. But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little." He said to her, "Your sins are forgiven."

— Luke 7:40-47, World English Bible
-------------------------------------------
The player who comes to field not for money but for the love and devotion of the game is the one who has to be rewarded and valued. Not the player who comes for the money. You on the other hand value the player who comes for greed. Campo had many players who would be excluded from other teams and circles. Players who would be considered to be Silver or no good. This was part of the project. Soccer is for everyone not only for the elite who has wealth or the one who has the perfect physique.

 

[Leblue]

1) The position of "I do not care if people gets paid". It is very common in the local soccer community. Here is where the problem lies. It DOES matter. It is important in many aspects, which I regret that people here do not understand or grasp.

"On September 27, 2017, the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the office of the United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York announced the arrest of 10 individuals, including assistant coaches Anthony Bland, Chuck Person, Emanuel Richardson, and Lamont Evans and Adidas executive James Gatto, on various corruption and fraud charges including bribery, money laundering, and wire fraud.[1][2][3] The schools implicated in the initial announcement were Arizona, Auburn, Louisville, Miami, Oklahoma State, South Carolina, and Southern California(USC).[1][2][3]

The investigation has since spread beyond the individuals and teams initially implicated.[5] Shortly afterwards, multiple media reports indicated that the Elite Youth Basketball League, the grassroots basketball division of Nike, was served with a subpoena by federal investigators. While Nike was not named in the initial documents, one of the 10 individuals arrested on September 26 was a former Nike executive who was working for Adidas when he was arrested.[6]"

It is a big deal if SFU players are getting paid in the VMSL, which it seems to have been the case.

2) Amateur competitions are designed for the enjoyment of people who have other jobs and careers. Their objective is not to help to produce professional soccer players.

Separate tournaments and leagues should be created for that purpose. When you pay a player in an amateur league you are not helping anyone in the long run. Amateur leagues help with the development of the culture of the game in society, and this might help the professional game indirectly,

Their primary purpose is not to launch players into professional or semi professional careers. The same for university leagues. People are going to their to get an education, skills, a variety of experiences (which includes playing sports). The goal is not to make them professional soccer players.

Why is this so hard to understand for you guys? Please @Dude. Explain why this can not be grasped? Take the example of Carlos Tevez and Luis Suarez. Those guys can barely read and write. They would have never made it in North America. A professional soccer player is a highly skilled worker in the production of specific tasks in the field. He or she does not need to be well rounded human individual, which is one of the purpose of amateur leagues and university leagues.

3) Please do not obscure the issue with false accusations about Campo Atletico and Derver and Ivan. Derver never played for Campo Atletico, and Ivan was a late addition who came out of his own volition due to cultural and ethnic bonds. There is no comparison with the issue of a foreign government sending thousand and thousands of dollars to a team so it can be used for propaganda purposes at home.

4) As for what so much is written about Campo Atletico, it is because it was a originally a project designed to question the status quo and herd mentality.
---------------------------------------
Jesus answered him, "Simon, I have something to tell you."

He said, "Teacher, say on."

"A certain lender had two debtors. The one owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty. When they couldn't pay, he forgave them both. Which of them therefore will love him most?"

Simon answered, "He, I suppose, to whom he forgave the most."

He said to him, "You have judged correctly." Turning to the woman, he said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I entered into your house, and you gave me no water for my feet, but she has wet my feet with her tears, and wiped them with the hair of her head. You gave me no kiss, but she, since the time I came in, has not ceased to kiss my feet. You didn't anoint my head with oil, but she has anointed my feet with ointment. Therefore I tell you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much. But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little." He said to her, "Your sins are forgiven."

— Luke 7:40-47, World English Bible
-------------------------------------------
The player who comes to field not for money but for the love and devotion of the game is the one who has to be rewarded and valued. Not the player who comes for the money. You on the other hand value the player who comes for greed. Campo had many players who would be excluded from other teams and circles. Players who would be considered to be Silver or no good. This was part of the project. Soccer is for everyone not only for the elite who has wealth or the one who has the perfect physique.

Why not make a surprise return to Campo Atletico save them for folding and then shock the world by escaping relegation....
I m very curious if anyone on that squad has reached out to you in regards for help, because it doesn't seem that they can do it without you.....

 

[Ballbaby]

1) The position of "I do not care if people gets paid". It is very common in the local soccer community. Here is where the problem lies. It DOES matter. It is important in many aspects, which I regret that people here do not understand or grasp.

"On September 27, 2017, the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the office of the United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York announced the arrest of 10 individuals, including assistant coaches Anthony Bland, Chuck Person, Emanuel Richardson, and Lamont Evans and Adidas executive James Gatto, on various corruption and fraud charges including bribery, money laundering, and wire fraud.[1][2][3] The schools implicated in the initial announcement were Arizona, Auburn, Louisville, Miami, Oklahoma State, South Carolina, and Southern California(USC).[1][2][3]

The investigation has since spread beyond the individuals and teams initially implicated.[5] Shortly afterwards, multiple media reports indicated that the Elite Youth Basketball League, the grassroots basketball division of Nike, was served with a subpoena by federal investigators. While Nike was not named in the initial documents, one of the 10 individuals arrested on September 26 was a former Nike executive who was working for Adidas when he was arrested.[6]"

It is a big deal if SFU players are getting paid in the VMSL, which it seems to have been the case.

2) Amateur competitions are designed for the enjoyment of people who have other jobs and careers. Their objective is not to help to produce professional soccer players.

Separate tournaments and leagues should be created for that purpose. When you pay a player in an amateur league you are not helping anyone in the long run. Amateur leagues help with the development of the culture of the game in society, and this might help the professional game indirectly,

Their primary purpose is not to launch players into professional or semi professional careers. The same for university leagues. People are going to their to get an education, skills, a variety of experiences (which includes playing sports). The goal is not to make them professional soccer players.

Why is this so hard to understand for you guys? Please @Dude. Explain why this can not be grasped? Take the example of Carlos Tevez and Luis Suarez. Those guys can barely read and write. They would have never made it in North America. A professional soccer player is a highly skilled worker in the production of specific tasks in the field. He or she does not need to be well rounded human individual, which is one of the purpose of amateur leagues and university leagues.

3) Please do not obscure the issue with false accusations about Campo Atletico and Derver and Ivan. Derver never played for Campo Atletico, and Ivan was a late addition who came out of his own volition due to cultural and ethnic bonds. There is no comparison with the issue of a foreign government sending thousand and thousands of dollars to a team so it can be used for propaganda purposes at home.

4) As for what so much is written about Campo Atletico, it is because it was a originally a project designed to question the status quo and herd mentality.
---------------------------------------
Jesus answered him, "Simon, I have something to tell you."

He said, "Teacher, say on."

"A certain lender had two debtors. The one owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty. When they couldn't pay, he forgave them both. Which of them therefore will love him most?"

Simon answered, "He, I suppose, to whom he forgave the most."

He said to him, "You have judged correctly." Turning to the woman, he said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I entered into your house, and you gave me no water for my feet, but she has wet my feet with her tears, and wiped them with the hair of her head. You gave me no kiss, but she, since the time I came in, has not ceased to kiss my feet. You didn't anoint my head with oil, but she has anointed my feet with ointment. Therefore I tell you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much. But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little." He said to her, "Your sins are forgiven."

— Luke 7:40-47, World English Bible
-------------------------------------------
The player who comes to field not for money but for the love and devotion of the game is the one who has to be rewarded and valued. Not the player who comes for the money. You on the other hand value the player who comes for greed. Campo had many players who would be excluded from other teams and circles. Players who would be considered to be Silver or no good. This was part of the project. Soccer is for everyone not only for the elite who has wealth or the one who has the perfect physique.

Have to be careful here on a few fronts. I have absolutely NO IDEA if SFU players were getting paid. In my opinion, that wouldn't be the case, but the concern being that they may be playing in a league where players are, and could be construed as a semi-professional environment. They don't want to go there, and it's shitty if they innocently get associated.

As far as your other points? They are well taken. I don't know to what extreme a foreign government or corporation will go, but I know what money breeds and anything is plausible in this regard.

I agree with you wholeheartedly on the purity of the game with love and passion driving it, not money. My point is I thrived on being involved in an amateur environment and beating and outplaying those who were in for the money. In fact it drove me more. Not because I was envious of the fact they were getting paid, but more to discredit them and those supporting such an environment. What I did value is playing with or against a player with professional pedigree who was foregoing the money for the pure facets the game brought. I held those players in very high esteem.

 

[Sunday League Gaffer]

Lets not forget a certain commissioner of another league that likes to protest, used to run a team with a known criminal. Rumours were the payroll in that club was pretty nice. I guess the shoe is on the other foot now and it is time to protest. End of the day as it stands this is an amateur league, no players should be getting paid. If they want to step up and but a bid in for a CPL franchise different story.

 

[Leblue]

Lets not forget a certain commissioner of another league that likes to protest, used to run a team with a known criminal. Rumours were the payroll in that club was pretty nice. I guess the shoe is on the other foot now and it is time to protest. End of the day as it stands this is an amateur league, no players should be getting paid. If they want to step up and but a bid in for a CPL franchise different story.

what club is in question here?

 

[Zima]

I believe that it was Poco.

 

[Sunday League Gaffer]

what club is in question here?

POCO....