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Premier [VMSL Premier] Predictions, Results & Banter 2018/2019

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Canucks4Ever

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Heard Campo pulled one back to make it 17-1.

Soolsma final count 14.

Glad I skipped being a spectator at Newton tonight...
 

Crazy-K

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It’s preety pathetic that Soolsma would run up the score like that after 6-7 put the young guys on the field everyone can see that campo is not at the premier level this year nothing to be proud of after this result no point proven only a big embarrassment for both teams and the league.
 

Soccer Coach

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You know these boys well I understand having a bad year and not to much structure but 17 goals what has gone wrong here.......
If anything, this might be a learning experience to others and the league.
1) Mixing family and friends with on field decisions sooner or later backfires. A legacy from the soccer culture in the lower mainland which believes that this is appropriate.

2) It does not matter the way you slice at the end soccer is a team sport. Individual players do not matter in the long run, but the collective tactical and strategic aspects. This is something that players do not understand. You can have very talented players that can be outplayed by a more cohesive group with inferior skills.

3) The league has also some degree of ownership on this outcome. Last year, Campo should have relegated. However, they were saved by the postponement of the game with the Tigers. This was not an accident but deliberate. I will not get into the details now. The league should try to have the games played right away. For years, we have had this issue where relegation and promotion gets distorted by the arbitrary delay of games.
If the game with Rinos would have been played in due time, Campo would have been relegated as the second part of the season was dismal and Rinos would have put the starters. The game of tonight would never have happened.

As for your comment of why I do not get involved again. This was the second time as the interference of parents or non players was always unconfortable. However, this was more or less manageable.

At the end there was always a philosophical discrepancy. Cusano and his family are well to do. Nothing wrong with it. images-1.jpg For me the project was about given life to the soccer of the working classes and marginalized. There was always a difference there. It was an interesting experiment, but some people inside knew that this was as far as it was going to go. The rich and the poor in the world really feel and see the game in a different way.

 

gilly

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17-1....wow, maybe the most lopsided score in VMSL Premier's history. Soolsma with 14?!? That is ridiculous....statement made about Campo and current state of league.

League needs to drop Campo ASAP, and then drop the next three for next year.

Get this league down to 10 or 8 quickly please...so bad on so many levels.
 

Leblue

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If anything, this might be a learning experience to others and the league.
1) Mixing family and friends with on field decisions sooner or later backfires. A legacy from the soccer culture in the lower mainland which believes that this is appropriate.

2) It does not matter the way you slice at the end soccer is a team sport. Individual players do not matter in the long run, but the collective tactical and strategic aspects. This is something that players do not understand. You can have very talented players that can be outplayed by a more cohesive group with inferior skills.

3) The league has also some degree of ownership on this outcome. Last year, Campo should have relegated. However, they were saved by the postponement of the game with the Tigers. This was not an accident but deliberate. I will not get into the details now. The league should try to have the games played right away. For years, we have had this issue where relegation and promotion gets distorted by the arbitrary delay of games.
If the game with Rinos would have been played in due time, Campo would have been relegated as the second part of the season was dismal and Rinos would have put the starters. The game of tonight would never have happened.

As for your comment of why I do not get involved again. This was the second time as the interference of parents or non players was always unconfortable. However, this was more or less manageable.

At the end there was always a philosophical discrepancy. Cusano and his family are well to do. Nothing wrong with it. View attachment 23864 For me the project was about given life to the soccer of the working classes and marginalized. There was always a difference there. It was an interesting experiment, but some people inside knew that this was as far as it was going to go. The rich and the poor in the world really feel and see the game in a different way.


Your first point is very accurate I also strongly believe that is the biggest issue in the soccer culture here. But as you can see it shows sooner or later.....
 

Soccer Coach

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Your first point is very accurate I also strongly believe that is the biggest issue in the soccer culture here. But as you can see it shows sooner or later.....
@Leblue,
1) I hope this issue gets better with the proliferation of academies and private clubs. However, it would be faster in BC Soccer would require that players could not be coached by a parent after U10. I have see so many kids sidelined in Silver or Gold because of the politics of the over protecting or helicopter parents or relatives. The major damage is that gets ingrained into the subconscious of players that they can get playing time not by their work ethic in the field but by the manipulations on the bench. They grow into adulthood seen the interference of relatives or friends as normal or expected.
Believe me, it was a shock to me when I started to have phone calls or even visits from parents/relatives or friends about line ups. I am not taking about players who are little kids here but young men over 18.

Many millennials have been told since childhood that they are outstanding and they believe it, whether they are or not, and this makes them really challenging to coach. Not all millennials are like this but a considerable group exhibit this behaviour or expectations.

2) With respect to the issue of the leagues role into this mess, perhaps people are not aware of the details. It is something that the league can improve. Literally every single year we had the relegation and promotion battles distorted by the post postponement of games.

The league does not have a policy on this. There is no rhyme or reason for re-scheduling of games. It becomes a political battle with emails going back and forth between the coaches/managers and the league officials. When the games get finally settled it usually loses meaning for one of the teams and they end up fielding weaker players. It certainly happen to us many times with GN, Akal, and even the infamous game with Norvan.

Have the Tigers played Campo during a normal state of events, then you would have had either Chile or Westside in Premier. Campo was clearly struggling by the second half of last season and were dependant in one or two players or set pieces. There was no way that a regular Tigers squad would have conceded 4 goals to a Campo team than had problems scoring one or two goals in the second part of the season.

The solution is not that complicated. Any Premier or Division 1 game that gets postponed should be played with 2 weeks. I certainly felt bad for Geoff and all the patience that he had to display with excuses of why games could not get played on a timely manner.

3) As for the 17-1 score, there is something really disturbing about it, as it requires unconscious complicity on both sides. Hence, @machel 's comments are very appropriate.
What is the message that the team and player who is running up the score is trying to send?
What is the message that the losing players are sending? {believe me...17 goals happen for a reason. You need help from the back line or keeper for this to happen}. If you park 5 defenders and 4 holding midfielders even if the players are division 2, there is no way that a premier team scores 17 goals on you.

I know that you guys get all dismissive on the philosophical and theological discussions, but this was bound to happen.
A public crucifixion needed to happen which is this 17-0.
The Campo project was a blasphemy to the status quo and the local conventional way of thinking and needed to be publicly executed.
Humans have not fundamentally changed and they dislike those who question their sense of reality or authority.

 

Stuffey

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I'd love to hear some insight on the Rover's management's reasons for leaving a player with 5, let alone 10, goals on the field. I know it's competitive but for fcuksakes..
 

soccer8

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Teams and clubs fold so fast in vmsl because there is no proper structures in place.its common that clubs fold quickly here. Is this it for Campo altogether? A guy scoring 14 goals is unherd of but i guess you just got to beat whats infront of you. I saw campo against northvan a few weeks back. They were 6-0 down and still trying to walk the ball out of defence and keeper looked for short pass all the team it was very confusing
 

Soccer Coach

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Teams and clubs fold so fast in vmsl because there is no proper structures in place.its common that clubs fold quickly here. Is this it for Campo altogether? A guy scoring 14 goals is unherd of but i guess you just got to beat whats infront of you. I saw campo against northvan a few weeks back. They were 6-0 down and still trying to walk the ball out of defence and keeper looked for short pass all the team it was very confusing
A possible solution is that the VMSL requires that Division 1 and Premier teams are run by a "board of directors" or group of people. When you have a team/club running by one single individual or a small group or two or three friends, this will happen sooner or later.
At the end, it is the fault of the league for allowing this to happen. We have been pointing out for years that many things need to be improved in the league. This is the result of pay as you go type of thinking, with little regard for the long term consequences.
Wait for the Tigers scandal to unfold....there is no going to be any scape from that one...
 

Leblue

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A possible solution is that the VMSL requires that Division 1 and Premier teams are run by a "board of directors" or group of people. When you have a team/club running by one single individual or a small group or two or three friends, this will happen sooner or later.
At the end, it is the fault of the league for allowing this to happen. We have been pointing out for years that many things need to be improved in the league. This is the result of pay as you go type of thinking, with little regard for the long term consequences.
Wait for the Tigers scandal to unfold....there is no going to be any scape from that one...
One thing that I find very interesting is the fact that so many teams on the Premier Level have some very established and great players with a good track record either having played College/University or even being ex pro's.
 

Soccer Coach

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One thing that I find very interesting is the fact that so many teams on the Premier Level have some very established and great players with a good track record either having played College/University or even being ex pro's.
Yes. I agree with you. The league is wasting their talent. These people deserve a better institutional structure.
This should be our aim. To build more stable, accountable and democratic institutions that serve individuals properly so they can realize their potential, their creativity and humanity. Not the circus that we have right now.
 

Leblue

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@Leblue,
1) I hope this issue gets better with the proliferation of academies and private clubs. However, it would be faster in BC Soccer would require that players could not be coached by a parent after U10. I have see so many kids sidelined in Silver or Gold because of the politics of the over protecting or helicopter parents or relatives. The major damage is that gets ingrained into the subconscious of players that they can get playing time not by their work ethic in the field but by the manipulations on the bench. They grow into adulthood seen the interference of relatives or friends as normal or expected.
Believe me, it was a shock to me when I started to have phone calls or even visits from parents/relatives or friends about line ups. I am not taking about players who are little kids here but young men over 18.

Many millennials have been told since childhood that they are outstanding and they believe it, whether they are or not, and this makes them really challenging to coach. Not all millennials are like this but a considerable group exhibit this behaviour or expectations.

2) With respect to the issue of the leagues role into this mess, perhaps people are not aware of the details. It is something that the league can improve. Literally every single year we had the relegation and promotion battles distorted by the post postponement of games.

The league does not have a policy on this. There is no rhyme or reason for re-scheduling of games. It becomes a political battle with emails going back and forth between the coaches/managers and the league officials. When the games get finally settled it usually loses meaning for one of the teams and they end up fielding weaker players. It certainly happen to us many times with GN, Akal, and even the infamous game with Norvan.

Have the Tigers played Campo during a normal state of events, then you would have had either Chile or Westside in Premier. Campo was clearly struggling by the second half of last season and were dependant in one or two players or set pieces. There was no way that a regular Tigers squad would have conceded 4 goals to a Campo team than had problems scoring one or two goals in the second part of the season.

The solution is not that complicated. Any Premier or Division 1 game that gets postponed should be played with 2 weeks. I certainly felt bad for Geoff and all the patience that he had to display with excuses of why games could not get played on a timely manner.

3) As for the 17-1 score, there is something really disturbing about it, as it requires unconscious complicity on both sides. Hence, @machel 's comments are very appropriate.
What is the message that the team and player who is running up the score is trying to send?
What is the message that the losing players are sending? {believe me...17 goals happen for a reason. You need help from the back line or keeper for this to happen}. If you park 5 defenders and 4 holding midfielders even if the players are division 2, there is no way that a premier team scores 17 goals on you.

I know that you guys get all dismissive on the philosophical and theological discussions, but this was bound to happen.
A public crucifixion needed to happen which is this 17-0.
The Campo project was a blasphemy to the status quo and the local conventional way of thinking and needed to be publicly executed.
Humans have not fundamentally changed and they dislike those who question their sense of reality or authority.


I would have to agree with you on the first point about family and friends.....
As soon as you have don't have a team that doesn't have any significant players it seems that it is very obvious that there is lots of politics involved....
What accomplished player at a university level or an ex professional would want to get involved with a team where social circles design the lineups.....
 

GoF

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I really don't get all this crap about not running up the score etc. fcuk fair play and not humiliating the other teams. It's all that's wrong with the game here. Develop players with a killer instinct and screw all the niceness. This isn't kiddies soccer (although all that not keeping score and not running up the scores there also pisses me off).

If that was my team out there I'd be telling them to keep going for the jugular and to run up the score. Get my players confident, in good form, and have people talking about my side, which a result like this will do. If I'm Soolsma, I want to stay out there and have a personal day for the ages. I'd be pissed off at giving up a goal.

It's not Rovers Tigers fault that their opponents are hapless.
 

GoF

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Croatia v Rino's was one hell of a weird match last night. Rino's absolute dominated the first half and could have put up 5 or 6, then were absolutely dire in the second half after taking off some key guys, and Croatia had their way with them.

Here's the goals and some other highlights

 

Regs

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FVSL protest or something regarding VMSL paid players... BC soccer investigation underway

SFU players not playing anywhere so as not upset NCAA
 

Soccer Coach

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I really don't get all this crap about not running up the score etc. fcuk fair play and not humiliating the other teams. It's all that's wrong with the game here. Develop players with a killer instinct and screw all the niceness. This isn't kiddies soccer (although all that not keeping score and not running up the scores there also pisses me off).

If that was my team out there I'd be telling them to keep going for the jugular and to run up the score. Get my players confident, in good form, and have people talking about my side, which a result like this will do. If I'm Soolsma, I want to stay out there and have a personal day for the ages. I'd be pissed off at giving up a goal.

It's not Rovers Tigers fault that their opponents are hapless.

Hey @GoF,
a) Do you happen to have footage of the infamous Campo vs Rovers game?

b) I think that most of us will agree with your comments about remaining competitive and the drawbacks having kids growing up with a false sense of competition. Having said this, a 17-1 game at Premier level has more deeper significance. This is what we are trying to explore here.

This is a game where the social convention has completely disintegrated. It is a "political" statement to the league and the soccer community by both sides. Perhaps the Rovens and Soolsma are sending the message that they will not up with this charade anymore. Please remember that up to last week we had people like @Canucks4Ever writing that Campo was not playing that bad. It had been obvious that the team was underperforming since last season, but this has been masked by other teams lowering performance or putting subs or call ups as Rinos did.

It is also a statement from the Campo players themselves. Allowing 17 goals requires complicity from the defending team. Perhaps this is a way of saying to the club and coach, enough is enough.

People have funny ways of deluding themselves into not wanting to see the obvious. However, when you give and allow a 17-1 score line you are FORCING people to see the obvious. @canucks can not write anymore that "Campo is actually playing well" and the coach or administration of the club can not keep ignoring that there is something intrinsically wrong with the club and that they have no business in premier. You have to remember that it is very hard for players to be consistently losing by a wide margin for more than a year now. Yes, you can have an positive game once in a while, but they must have know that most games were not feeling or looking like normal games.

c) as for @leblues, we can agree that the structure of having family and friends making decisions on the line ups is flawed and should be avoided.

However, my point for you guys is that this is only one side of the problem. The league is also to blame by not having the check and balances that would allow these things to happen. It is not an isolated problem. It is tied to not taking seriously the re-scheduling of DECISIVE games and understanding that it affects competition; it is tied to the lack of overseeing players transfers (Campo lost some players to Tigers and others and we all know why); it is tied to the lack of requirements for a stable and viable structure within teams and clubs. There are other factors that allowed this to continue, including implicit collusion of games.

Chile or Westside where the teams that should have stayed but at least one team made sure that the weakest team stayed.
Do not get me even started with the role that some referees play in the outcome of crucial games.

In summary, this is the natural and logical result of a series of institutional failures that the league needs to address.

This lopsided result is simply the natural outcome of more entrenched factors that need to be addressed.

I am trying that you guys look beyond the superficiality and realize that the league needs your involvement so it becomes more accountable and the problems get corrected.
 
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