LucVanLierde
Not Bright
In my opinion my homeboy Simon will bring the nucks home a g-medal, he just has to get over his current bout of food poisoning.
Igali looks strong to repeat as well.
Igali looks strong to repeat as well.
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Whitfield to repeat!!!!
- Thread starter LucVanLierde
- Start date
The problem with the triathlon nowadays is that they've reduced it to a swim/run. Essentially, if you're a strong enough swimmer to finish within one minute of the lead, and are a good 10K runner, you stand as good a chance as about 10 others to win. It's less of a race of truth, and more of a race of chance.
By legalizing drafting, they've taken the strong cyclist out of the equation. Now, you only really need to be good at sticking with a pack to win. At only 40K, it is a little pointless because it's too short a distance to allow any real strategy to dictate a race. At least with the no drafting rule, strong time trialists could rise to the occasion, and hold on for a win in the run.
These days, a Mike Pigg or Jimmy Ricitello would be far less effective because you've taken away their strength event.
That said, I do hope Whitfield can repeat. He's in great form, and has some great results this year. When did he come down with food poisoning?
By legalizing drafting, they've taken the strong cyclist out of the equation. Now, you only really need to be good at sticking with a pack to win. At only 40K, it is a little pointless because it's too short a distance to allow any real strategy to dictate a race. At least with the no drafting rule, strong time trialists could rise to the occasion, and hold on for a win in the run.
These days, a Mike Pigg or Jimmy Ricitello would be far less effective because you've taken away their strength event.
That said, I do hope Whitfield can repeat. He's in great form, and has some great results this year. When did he come down with food poisoning?
LucVanLierde
Not Bright
- Thread starter
- #3
Interesting take dude, but i have to tell you that your post reeks of a spectator. Have u ever competed in a olympic distance tri? You know the sport, that is obvious, but Im curious as to your participation. You made some good points.
I sorta agree with you, but it has come down to who ever can run a 29:45 - 30:10 10 k will win.
The minimal distance that keeps the cycling tight is what makes the run so exciting.
Oh ya swimming is really ****in tiring.
p.s he said he ate some bad gyros kebab fallafel heros.
pps. summer olympics with the world cup of hockey at the same time......perfect.
I sorta agree with you, but it has come down to who ever can run a 29:45 - 30:10 10 k will win.
The minimal distance that keeps the cycling tight is what makes the run so exciting.
Oh ya swimming is really ****in tiring.
p.s he said he ate some bad gyros kebab fallafel heros.
pps. summer olympics with the world cup of hockey at the same time......perfect.
Luc,
Over 40 races from Sprint to 1/2 Iron between 1989 & 1992, including 1990 & 1991 Desert Princess Duathlons, 1990 VIT, Whistler WC, and Vancouver WC (where I was pulled from the swim for hypothermia). Several Olympics distances under my belt. NO DESIRE to train for that level again!
In the old days, a pro 31 - 32 minute 10 KM would do it, because one could demoralize his opponents on the bike, and force them to push harder. Now it has become a race of conserving ones effort for the run. The smartest strategy is to sit in the pack and not attack- take advantage of the draft to keep your legs fresh. With the no drafting regulation, the better cyclist actually excelled...and you had to be very good in all three events. There was about a 2 year period between 1988 & 1990 where Mark Allen was untouchable because the only guy who could ride faster was Mike Pigg, but Pigg couldn't hold a lead to him on the run. Made for some exciting races, including a great VIT right here in English Bay.
I guess I'm just a traditionalist.
Over 40 races from Sprint to 1/2 Iron between 1989 & 1992, including 1990 & 1991 Desert Princess Duathlons, 1990 VIT, Whistler WC, and Vancouver WC (where I was pulled from the swim for hypothermia). Several Olympics distances under my belt. NO DESIRE to train for that level again!
In the old days, a pro 31 - 32 minute 10 KM would do it, because one could demoralize his opponents on the bike, and force them to push harder. Now it has become a race of conserving ones effort for the run. The smartest strategy is to sit in the pack and not attack- take advantage of the draft to keep your legs fresh. With the no drafting regulation, the better cyclist actually excelled...and you had to be very good in all three events. There was about a 2 year period between 1988 & 1990 where Mark Allen was untouchable because the only guy who could ride faster was Mike Pigg, but Pigg couldn't hold a lead to him on the run. Made for some exciting races, including a great VIT right here in English Bay.
I guess I'm just a traditionalist.
LucVanLierde
Not Bright
- Thread starter
- #7
Ok well that answers my question. I see where u are coming from about the drafting, but u have to remember that there has is more legal drafting in the swim then there is in Nascar.
I follow triathlon and I think it has changed since your day. Now there is no such thing as a dominant rider( Steve Larsen in Ironman -yes but olympic distance- no) If u were to look at any race this year on the ITU (non drafting or draft legal races), no one is a step above anyone else on the bike, these guys are supremly disaplined at all 3, not 1 or 2. Most admit that what got them into triathlon isint even their strongest leg now.
My point is that your point is valid in 1989, now its a 1: 45 ELITE sprint. The draft legal bike is irelevant. U have to get with the times old man, the worlds changing.
And what all those races and no Ironman.........
Im taking it the bike leg was your strong suit.
My next question: What races did you do?
Go Whitfield
I follow triathlon and I think it has changed since your day. Now there is no such thing as a dominant rider( Steve Larsen in Ironman -yes but olympic distance- no) If u were to look at any race this year on the ITU (non drafting or draft legal races), no one is a step above anyone else on the bike, these guys are supremly disaplined at all 3, not 1 or 2. Most admit that what got them into triathlon isint even their strongest leg now.
My point is that your point is valid in 1989, now its a 1: 45 ELITE sprint. The draft legal bike is irelevant. U have to get with the times old man, the worlds changing.
And what all those races and no Ironman.........
Im taking it the bike leg was your strong suit.
My next question: What races did you do?
Go Whitfield
Swim: it's always been that way, though. It hasn't always been legal on the bike (and still isn't in most races). Yeah, the bike was my strength.
You've identified the winning times...they actually haven't changed that much from the days when even Scott Molina dominated the USTS series. Granted, the athlete has. Everyone can run, and many will be sub 1:50. If you look at the athletes that have managed to be successful in both the old days and now the ITU draft legal age, they are the strong runners. Simon Lessing comes to mind. In the ladies, Michele Jones, Vancouver's Carol Montgomery...you get my point. No longer will you have guys laying it out on the bike to build a 3 minute lead, then to go on and win by one.
"Back in the Day", an athlete would come over to triathlon through cross training for their strong sport, and discover that they were pretty good at one of the two others, and learn to be strong in the third. Either that, or they watched Julie Moss crawl across the finish line in Hawaii and were inspired to take up the sport. Now, athlete (especially the Euros & Aussies) train for the sport of triathlon at a young age. The courses on the ITU circuit don't inspire individual efforts either. Again, "back in the day", organizers didn't take into account crowd pleasing. They did pick a bike route that would separate the riders. Hills. Now the courses are fairly flat, making it that much easier to maintain a pack.
You've identified the winning times...they actually haven't changed that much from the days when even Scott Molina dominated the USTS series. Granted, the athlete has. Everyone can run, and many will be sub 1:50. If you look at the athletes that have managed to be successful in both the old days and now the ITU draft legal age, they are the strong runners. Simon Lessing comes to mind. In the ladies, Michele Jones, Vancouver's Carol Montgomery...you get my point. No longer will you have guys laying it out on the bike to build a 3 minute lead, then to go on and win by one.
"Back in the Day", an athlete would come over to triathlon through cross training for their strong sport, and discover that they were pretty good at one of the two others, and learn to be strong in the third. Either that, or they watched Julie Moss crawl across the finish line in Hawaii and were inspired to take up the sport. Now, athlete (especially the Euros & Aussies) train for the sport of triathlon at a young age. The courses on the ITU circuit don't inspire individual efforts either. Again, "back in the day", organizers didn't take into account crowd pleasing. They did pick a bike route that would separate the riders. Hills. Now the courses are fairly flat, making it that much easier to maintain a pack.
LucVanLierde
Not Bright
- Thread starter
- #9
enough about us
1.Yep.
2. The bike course in greece is very hilly.
3. You dont see my point. Which is that no rider can take a 3 minute lead on the bike anymore. The mofos redline it the whole way. Even if it was only a swim/bike...it would still be a sprint finish. Please tell me understand.
anyways it should be a good race. peace ooot
1.Yep.
2. The bike course in greece is very hilly.
3. You dont see my point. Which is that no rider can take a 3 minute lead on the bike anymore. The mofos redline it the whole way. Even if it was only a swim/bike...it would still be a sprint finish. Please tell me understand.
anyways it should be a good race. peace ooot
Not to beat a dead horse to death, but there is a HUGE difference between UCI road racing w/ legal drafting, and a 40 KM time trial. In a road race, correct, almost impossible to build a 3 minute lead. In a time trial, there's nowhere to hide. Race of truth. Weaknesses, especially in a hilly course, get exposed. On a 40 KM course, I can't see the hills being long enough to make a difference...besides, in a pack, a weaker climber can very easily jump on the wheel of a better climber for pace. All you have to do is look at the results of a TT stage in the Tour to see ample evidence of this.
In today's ITU draft legal races, there is little to no redlining it during the bike. They certainly are on the run, but not the bike. Turning it from a TT to a road race accomplished this. In the past, the top ten would be really stretched out, while now the top ten or 20 are separated only by their running abilities.
So, yep, I fully understand. That said, should be a great race.
In today's ITU draft legal races, there is little to no redlining it during the bike. They certainly are on the run, but not the bike. Turning it from a TT to a road race accomplished this. In the past, the top ten would be really stretched out, while now the top ten or 20 are separated only by their running abilities.
So, yep, I fully understand. That said, should be a great race.
Luc: had meant to expand a bit on this. If you have ever road raced (not sure if you have), but the pack, or peleton, will always be able to maintain a higher overall speed than an individual rider, and at less of an individual effort to the riders within the pack. The draft makes that huge a difference. This is why you see the Olympic distance racer using mostly nimble road racing bikes, as opposed to a less nimble, but faster and more aerodynamic TT bike, as used in the Ironmans (and in the old days, the Olympic distances).
This is why I say that the guys conserve their efforts in the bike now. You can't NOT conserve effort when you're racing in a pack.
That's it, that's all...it's been an interesting conversation.
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