Women's provincial cup

[Pinto]

Thanks Captain you are right. They do have a lot to learn but where can they learn that, playing against teams they crush or against teams that will challenge them both physically and mentally.
I know that there are many that prefer a forfeit to actually having to earn a win. Maybe those teams should look to a different division than playing Premier. Is that not the reason why players play in this division. If they do not have the skill to play the best maybe those players, coaches, and teams should look to a less challenging division where they might have a sporting chance to compete.
Hopefully the league will learn from this, which started way back at the beginning of the year, and make the make the necessary changes to insure this does not happen again.
Let's get the best players on the field at the highest level. This is where those players that are not with the Whitecaps but are as good or even better should be playing to improve their skills.

 

[Captain Shamrock]

Agreed, Pinto.

So no one ever mentioned North Shore in those whole thing????????

 

[Gooner21]

As the youth manager for the Caps when we started prospects and the concept of a full time program, I feel qualified to speak in depth on the Caps program. We were originally met with resistence from many clubs who wanted to hold onto their top player(s) in an age group. As a hypothetical, if Cliff Ave girls had a U18 metro team with a star grade 12 kid on it but she was playing with a team of 16 girls who were below her ability and were training only once or twice a week....and then every Sunday she scores 2 in a 4-0 rout without being challenged. Or, she could train with players as good or better than her, train 4 times a week, and play games against open age women's and university teams regularly. Surely the second scenario is a better path to a national youth team opportunity, which was an underlying reason for the program in the first place. Can you believe I actually had TD's call me and say "why are you taking the best 17 year old from our club, her team doesn't have a chance of winning a coastal cup without her?". Ummm, yeah.
Although we all talk about "growing the game" and "giving players a chance at the top level", VERY FEW actually support something that will benefit all the girls involved.
I love the idea of the top grade 11/12 girls in a full time program playing against women. Both get better. I know we had challenging games against the Caps this season, much more so than 1/3 of our league games. As we were a new expansion team I didn't say much at the premier meeting when the topic of them joining the league came up and a few of the established clubs (ie: that had silverware to play for or lose) didn't want them in at all. The comment was "we shouldn't let 16 and 17 year olds in our league". Why I ask, if it makes everyone get better?

Setterlund, Richardson, Raymer, Caverly, Courtnall...all Caps "kids" who got national U17 or U20 call ups in the last year. Guarantee only one or maybe two might have had the chance without a full time professional program.

Coquitlam, Surrey, North Shore....all MWSL teams that felt the Caps were legitimate enough to play in friendlies when it served their own purposes....but don't want them in the league or cup. I'm open to a valid reason why not, but haven't heard one yet.

I sure hope a MWSL rep discusses this recent mess at the AGM next week but I doubt anyone will stand up and take the heat for what happened.

 

[Regs]

Not sure if this applies to the ladies but I think there is a feeling that when it comes to the Caps and senior amateurs, it is a matter of take, take, take and they don't really put a lot of effort into helping the leagues/clubs.

Not saying it is justified but I could certainly see the perception of this being out there.

 

[Gooner21]

they don't really put a lot of effort into helping the leagues/clubs.

What can they do for senior amateurs? Suggestions? Any pro club is focussed on winning, putting butts in seats to make money, youth development, and a few might actually focus on women/girls/grassroots programs. Any club, even at the very top level, that do more than a couple of those might be rare. What do ManU, Chelsea, Barca do for amatuer men's or women's leagues in their cities?
On the development side, the Super Y league exists locally as a top tier youth league because of the Caps and their efforts, even if it has some faults and is getting watered down....free clinics in various communities for 6-10 year olds every spring/summer....an owner willing to spend millions of his own money on a training facility in the burbs that would have fields for public/community use....free participation programs in schools every spring.
I know the Caps have done a lot of poor things over the years and some people get their neck hair up with just the mention of their name (hello FB!), but when they do good things that benefit the community, kids, and the game they need credit too.

 

[Regs]

Hmmmm, did you miss this part?

Not saying it is justified...

 

[Gooner21]

Looking for suggestions or facts rather than "perception"....if they take, take, take, what can they give, give, give??

 

[Regs]

Sponsorship help? Ask Knaacks how much SU pays each year to travel the country. Or ask FB about the island this year?

Anyways, the perception IS out there and it should be up to the "professionals" to figure out how to change it.

My 2 bits and that's all you're getting.

 

[Fat Bastard]

Looking for suggestions or facts rather than "perception"....

 

[bergamascho]

My 2 bits and that's all you're getting.

Well from what I hear your two bits aren't much...

 

[k-vale7]

I don't have a problem with the caps being in our league, but what happens if they win the cup? This is supposedly a team of youth players who are then going off to university, etc. Could they even field a team for Nationals with most of their roster heading to University? Isn't that the bigger picture (at least for the MWSL)? It's great for their development, but I hope that the team that wins the Provincial Cup has their sights set on Nationals, not just using the league as training ground. I'd be pretty choked if the team that took my team out of the running wasn't even planning on going to the Nationals. But perhaps this is not the case.

Pinto - it sort of sounds like you are putting the onus on the Women's league to sort out the problems of youth. Why aren't there better teams for the caps to play against?

Also, the other problem and really the main one in my eyes lies with giving the PCSL a berth in the first place, I get the thinking behind it - best team should represent the province. Problem is, all the teams in the PCSL are pretty much duplicates of those in the MWSL, except for the whitecaps. So every time a team who is not the Whitecaps wins, chances are they will relinquish their spot in favour of playing with their MWSL team. It just seems kind of obvious, no?

But all-in-all whatever happened with the caps should have been sorted out long ago. It's crappy that they're out right before they were set to play. Seriously, nobody thought of this before? Right.

 

[Gooner21]

Sponsorship help? Ask Knaacks how much SU pays each year to travel the country. Or ask FB about the island this year?

Anyways, the perception IS out there and it should be up to the "professionals" to figure out how to change it.

My 2 bits and that's all you're getting.

So you want the Caps to be responsible for an amateur team's travel costs? About 90% of USL and MLS clubs only worry about putting butts in seats and making payroll, nothing more...and yet after all the things I listed that the Caps do above and beyond in the community you now think they should also bankroll the amateur programs. Give your head a shake man.
The island is costing us about $700 this Sunday and $500 we get back from the BCSA/MWSL....why on earth would I expect anything from the Caps towards this?

 

[Regs]

I don't really fcuking care what the rest of the USL and MLS does, you asked what the Caps could do and I gave you an idea/suggestion.

and yet after all the things I listed that the Caps do above and beyond in the community you now think they should also bankroll the amateur programs. Give your head a shake man

Everything you listed had to do with youth. Try and keep up here, I said SENIOR amateur and as such, you've listed sweet fcuk all.

It seems your attitude about the Caps is exactly why others in the community think they are fcuking morons - they think their shite doesn't stink and everyone should bend over whenever a Cap representative walks in the room.

Let's turn this around: by letting the Caps into whatever senior amateur league they want to, when they want to, what are the leagues getting out of it?

Access to better facilities? Some marketing exposure? What is it?

 

[barney]

How about getting back to playing games against All Star teams from the FVSL, VMSL, and VISL. There has been a long history of those games, but Caps pulled out. Don't bother about games againsty UVic, they are not part of the senior soccer scene on the island.

 

[Pinto]

So Barney you are saying that for you to be competitive against the young 16 and 17 year old caps you need to put together an all star team to have a chance against them. Regs the young caps want to play senior but some of you are to scared to play against them for fear of getting upstaged by a bunch of kids. They wanted to start the year pay their dues and play some competitive soccer, but as usual you and the others would not let it happen. The Caps were not let into the Provincials but won the PCSL and were entitled to be in the Provincials.
Quit blaming someone else for your problems, if you don't like the rules get them changed. The Caps never bent the rules or asked for anything that was not entitled to them. There was a berth for the PCSL champion in the Provincials and the Caps took it. What did they do wrong? Play by the rules.

 

[CalmYourself]

would the caps have gone to PEI to represent BC if they were to win the provincial cup?

 

[barney]

Does anybody really know why the Caps pulled out? My information is that our island coach was notified Friday at 5 that his game against the Caps was cancelled. Game was to be played on Saturday. Lots of notice.
Comment re All Star was a comment about what the Caps could do for the Senior Soccer in the Province, in particular Men's as this was where games had taken place in the past. Should probably be in another thread, but somebody asked what Caps could do, and I presented a suggestion.

 

[Captain Shamrock]

So Barney you are saying that for you to be competitive against the young 16 and 17 year old caps you need to put together an all star team to have a chance against them. Regs the young caps want to play senior but some of you are to scared to play against them for fear of getting upstaged by a bunch of kids. They wanted to start the year pay their dues and play some competitive soccer, but as usual you and the others would not let it happen. The Caps were not let into the Provincials but won the PCSL and were entitled to be in the Provincials.
Quit blaming someone else for your problems, if you don't like the rules get them changed. The Caps never bent the rules or asked for anything that was not entitled to them. There was a berth for the PCSL champion in the Provincials and the Caps took it. What did they do wrong? Play by the rules.

Not quite.....





Haivng said that......I think they should be allowed to participate IF they are willing to represent the province at the National Championships.....otherwise, if they did win, would the second best team go?

 

[Gooner21]

I give up. Regs seems to think senior soccer should get something given to them or have some entitlement. Last time I checked in real soccer markets, people live and die by their pro club and support it through thick and thin....not throw rocks and protest for unknown reasons or feel entitled to get something given to them. I would ask again what he actually suggests they do for senior soccer but as most people in this soccer community he doesn't seem to have a clue but is happy to bitch, moan, and demand something from them. The fact that some ignorant people think they are "fcukin morons" tells me those same people don't have a clue.
They are not putting pro teams in senior amateur soccer....on the girls side it is a bunch of grade 11/12 kids....on the boys side, their U18 prospects play FV div 1. FFS why can't people figure out more and better competition is better for all. They are in those leagues to get better playing senior players...take it as flattery, and in return provide good competition for opponents. And speaking from a women's club that played them, they provided the turf field and paid the ref in our 3 exhibitions this year....oh, look, an example of something they gave back to an amateur club. Wanker.
And why is everyone so worried about the Caps youth teams not fulfilling a national berth if they were to get it? I have college girls on my roster, so do other teams....mine might or might not be allowed to go by their college coaches. That dance happens every year but as a full time year round program, I suspect they would make just as much or more of an effort to attend. And half their U18 team right now are grade 11's so we're only talking about 8 or 9 girls that are going off to college. Head shake again, please.

 

[Traditional]

I'm aware that many could not care less, but how do the Caps entering the womens league and entering the womens' playoffs help the Island teams at all. If they really want to raise their profile and help raise the level of womens soccer in BC then they need to play the upper teams from the island as well. Or is the growth of womens soccer based solely on the mainland???