2014 VMSL AGM - Requests

[Gomesy16]

After spending a frustrating 30 minutes searching the VMSL website for information on how the VMSL Provincial Spots are allocated to no avail, and then finding the FVSL allocation info in less than a minute on their website, I thought I would start this thread.

To those who have voting power at the next VMSL AGM, please consider these requests and see what you can do:

1) New updated website with more current information (ex. VMSL Provincial Cup allocation)
2) Online Player Registration
3) Minimum 4 week winter break

 

[Regs]

Unfortunately, I think getting in on the inside at the VMSL means you will quite quickly come down with some sort of communicative disease.

I had a couple of chats with WAB last summer who said he wanted to get this aspect of the league improved but sadly, he's gone a bit quiet in that regard. Understandably (somewhat), he can't post much here - must be a muzzle of some sort because Sapp just gained their first 3 points from a match and not a peep

That being all said, I would be on board 100% with your 3 requests!

 

[dezza]

Gomesy, are you going to be attending the AGM and proposing a motion detailing each of these requests? If so, I strongly suggest you distribute a detailed copy of each proposed motion on a printed sheet of paper to the members of the executive. It would seem that many teams this season have been playing cup games with players suspended due to cautions accumulated in league play even after the membership voted at the last AGM to separate yellow-card accumulations/suspensions between league and cup!

As for your requests, here's how I see the discussions going:

1) If you want a whole new website you will run in to a brick wall. If you specifically want them to post the league's provincial allocations on the website, you have a deal
2) This is a big one. It is definitely a step in the right direction, but the ideal solution would actually be BC Soccer handling the online registrations for all leagues, thus ensuring there are no players playing illegally in multiple leagues! The VMSL has been holding out for this, but at some point will have to realize it's never coming and they have to bite the bullet and implement it themselves. This means defining how the registration system works, meeting with multiple web developers to get quotes, and then picking one. Then of course learning how to use the new system.
3) The argument against this has always been field allocations which run out in spring. I have to give kudos to the schedulers who added an extra week break this January when they observed that almost no games were postponed heading in to December and we were on track to finish the league with time to spare. Obviously this would have been more beneficial if the extended break was known at the beginning of the season so people could plan vacation accordingly. Personally, I would prefer 3 weeks + Thanksgiving off, but it's worth discussing with the membership to see what people want the most.

 

[Gomesy16]

I'm not sure if I will be attending the AGM or not this year, I don't have a vote unfortunately and it will all depend on the date and my schedule.

The last time I did go was about 4 years ago, I was representing the Sporting Club of Vancouver and brought up online registration. My actual words were something like, when are we going to move on from this archaic system of registration, get into the 21st century and have online registration? (Probably not the best approach with Will ) He brought up the double registration potential and that online registration would never happen as long as he was around.

Anyway, it would be nice to see some progress made. I played one season in the FVSL and what a difference. Who would have thought that Mickey Mouse League would be ahead of the VMSL in anything?

 

[Regs]

Didn't the Devils go on to win the Stanley Cup after Gretzky made that comment?

Way to jinx the VMSL, Gomesy!

 

[Farquea]

Gomesy, are you going to be attending the AGM and proposing a motion detailing each of these requests? If so, I strongly suggest you distribute a detailed copy of each proposed motion on a printed sheet of paper to the members of the executive. It would seem that many teams this season have been playing cup games with players suspended due to cautions accumulated in league play even after the membership voted at the last AGM to separate yellow-card accumulations/suspensions between league and cup!

Was it actually agreed that yellow/red cards were going to be considered separately for cup and league play, i was there and remember it being discussed but cant remember the final decision. I only ask as i was thinking some of our guys now have to tread carefully in the next 5 league games before our cup semi to make sure they aren't suspended. So what is actually the deal??

 

[dezza]

Was it actually agreed that yellow/red cards were going to be considered separately for cup and league play, i was there and remember it being discussed but cant remember the final decision. I only ask as i was thinking some of our guys now have to tread carefully in the next 5 league games before our cup semi to make sure they aren't suspended. So what is actually the deal??

For this year it stays the same -- lots of teams have had suspended players throughout cup and they can't change the rules mid-competition.

Since no one seems to remember the final decision we'll probably have to propose and vote on the motion at the next AGM.

Maybe another motion to record all of the motions/decisions at the AGM and email them out to all managers within 30 days would be a good motion to bring forward as well

 

[RL RCD]

1) Rosters of each team to be posted online (as FVSL)
2) Limit the number of registered players to 25 per team
3) Season Mar - Oct (break mid July to mid Aug)

 

[trece verde]

1. Online system will NOT happen unless BC Soccer comes up with something that actually works for everyone. VMSL will not spend the money on it. That also means that rosters will never be posted online either.
2. New VMSL website will NOT happen, unless there is a guarantee that whatever it gets changed to is 100% compatible if BC Soccer does something right and finds an online system that actually works.
3. Longer winter break actually does happen, it's just not scheduled - we just have more cancellations due to shite weather.
4. Who has 25 players on their roster outside Masters?
5. Where are you going to get fields for a March - October season?

 

[RL RCD]

1. Online system will NOT happen unless BC Soccer comes up with something that actually works for everyone. VMSL will not spend the money on it. That also means that rosters will never be posted online either.
2. New VMSL website will NOT happen, unless there is a guarantee that whatever it gets changed to is 100% compatible if BC Soccer does something right and finds an online system that actually works.
3. Longer winter break actually does happen, it's just not scheduled - we just have more cancellations due to shite weather.
4. Who has 25 players on their roster outside Masters?
5. Where are you going to get fields for a March - October season?

OK, trece, I am going to comment on your 1-5:

1) If VMSL has to wait for BCSA to find a software that will work for everybody then it will never happen. Now, tell me, how FVSL can have rosters posted on their web site and VMSL cannot? Why is this important? See below.

2) I guess my number 1 addressed this too.

3) During winter months indoor soccer leagues should be organized.

4) Ask around. There are teams that register anywhere between 20 and 50 players per season. Why? That is another issue. The league does not care because they get money for each registered player. Some teams are stacked with a lot of good players who even do not play (there is only 11 players on the field + 5 subs). Young (good) players get discouraged. While some teams have rosters of well over 25 players there are some teams that struggle to get even 11 on the field. Of course, there are some other issues why those teams are in that position (to even field 11) but the fact is that some bigger clubs have enough good players to field two competitive teams while other struggle. So, if anyone asks me, there should be a significant league involvement with a rule to limit the number of players. This will force some clubs/teams to choose carefully who they are going to sign for a season and how many players, it will be a trickle down effect because numerous good players will then try to try out for other teams (or even go to the lower division which will then make div 1, div 1, etc. teams stronger).

5) The logic in this province "Soccer should not compete against baseball, lacrosse, or "other" spring- summer sports is ridiculous. The fields will be assigned based on the number of registered players. If soccer is the sport with most registered players then it should not be a problem to get fields. Of course, other sports may suffer (a lot of kids will not be able to play 2 or 3 sports at the same time and will have to choose the main one). If soccer in this country is going to have any chance to move up then the whole system has to be revamped (including the calendar).

 

[bulljive]

I know you're wrong on the 5th point, in Delta anyway. Fields are assigned based on season, Baseball has our turf field and many other fields through out the summer. I'm sure our premier team could work out getting a game time but certainly not a our entire mens club or our youth club. Before you go and say its just based on registered numbers, that's also not true. GN Sporting who has a club of 1 or 2 teams and aren't actually delta players for the most part get top priority on fields in delta because they are grandfathered in, bloody ridiculous.

We also can't get on John Oliver because the Delta mens/womens club which is about 1/5 the size of our club, North Delta, was there first. We have battled both these decisions at length, based on our massive registration numbers and that reality that we are the real "Club" and true representation of North Delta. Yet somehow we cant get on the only good grass field in Delta. Imagine us trying to Push baseball. One of the real reasons it wont change is the people in charge of allocation rather leave it the way it is and has always been instead of dealing with conflict and making some real change.

 

[dezza]

4) Ask around. There are teams that register anywhere between 20 and 50 players per season. Why? That is another issue. The league does not care because they get money for each registered player. Some teams are stacked with a lot of good players who even do not play (there is only 11 players on the field + 5 subs). Young (good) players get discouraged. While some teams have rosters of well over 25 players there are some teams that struggle to get even 11 on the field. Of course, there are some other issues why those teams are in that position (to even field 11) but the fact is that some bigger clubs have enough good players to field two competitive teams while other struggle. So, if anyone asks me, there should be a significant league involvement with a rule to limit the number of players. This will force some clubs/teams to choose carefully who they are going to sign for a season and how many players, it will be a trickle down effect because numerous good players will then try to try out for other teams (or even go to the lower division which will then make div 1, div 1, etc. teams stronger).

This would work well if we could actually have intra-club call ups from lower division teams (not CAT, which no one wants to play in). Then we would actually see real clubs develop similar to the way they do in BC Rugby League.

Until then you can't put a roster limit like this -- injuries/suspensions/vacations could easily see 10-15 players unavailable for a team at any given point and you'd be seriously handicapping them because of it.

 

[ThiKu]

Someon mentioned having yellow/red separate for league cup. Yellow's can be done separate (FVSL does that), but I think as per BCSA if a player gets a red in any competition they are suspended from every competition. I may be incorrect.

 

[Captain Shamrock]

This would work well if we could actually have intra-club call ups from lower division teams (not CAT, which no one wants to play in). Then we would actually see real clubs develop similar to the way they do in BC Rugby League.

Until then you can't put a roster limit like this -- injuries/suspensions/vacations could easily see 10-15 players unavailable for a team at any given point and you'd be seriously handicapping them because of it.

The Women's league does this already......it was really useful when I was coaching there. Intra-club call-ups are the way to go.

 

[bandcamp]

The Women's league does this already......it was really useful when I was coaching there. Intra-club call-ups are the way to go.

Agreed. In rugby you either play on the first 15 or second 15 week to week. No CAT, just part of the same club. Oh, and rugby player shower after games and actually talk to and have a beer with the guys they just played against.

 

[Canucks4Ever]

This would work well if we could actually have intra-club call ups from lower division teams (not CAT, which no one wants to play in). Then we would actually see real clubs develop similar to the way they do in BC Rugby League.

Until then you can't put a roster limit like this -- injuries/suspensions/vacations could easily see 10-15 players unavailable for a team at any given point and you'd be seriously handicapping them because of it.

I could not be behind this idea more. CAT IS A RIDICULOUS SYSTEM! Limit the number of call ups (5 per game?) if you want to avoid clubs stacking their lower div teams. But its absolutely ridiculous that young guys who have some talent have to choose between playing in a decent league with something to play for or playing in a bullsh*t league in order to make sure they can get minutes in Prem. It turns guys off. Nobody wants to be a bench guy, you want to play decent minutes. But CAT is a joke so their is no real option.

As for the summer season you're dreaming. The other sports that were mentioned have all the turf, yes there is grass but half of it doesn't get watered and the other half has the goal posts taken out to make room for baseball. Summer leagues can already barely get fields and you would be taking about growing the demand exponentially. What little field space is available goes to HPL. Also there are many other conflicts in the summer with families vacationing while school is out etc.

Plus WTF would we spend the winter doing anyway? I'd rather be playing for real than in some bs indoor league (that's what summer is for!)

 

[trece verde]

Why, RL RCD ?

1. I'm guessing you're unaware of the online registration system that BCSA trialed that cost way too much and just didn't work. I guess you're also unaware that as a result, the VMSL are rather cautious in their outlook towards being early adopters of new technology. Can't say I would have blamed them when they were being told that the "new system was the be-all and end-all of registration," and it didn't work. Why don't the VMSL have rosters online like the FVSL does? Because the website management software they use doesn't do that, that's why. Apparently you haven't heard of the Most Excellent Site either.
2. No, it doesn't address the point. Once bitten, twice shy.
3. There's nothing stopping you from playing indoor all year long. Fill your boots. The rest of us will be playing real soccer outside.
4. 50 players on a roster - do you really expect anyone to take this claim seriously? I definitely can't. NOBODY who actually wants to play soccer would sit around after being told "oh by the way, you're number 49 on our roster;" not even on a masters' team, or in 3rd or 4th division ball.
5. Obviously you've never been involved with having to obtain field permits from any of the municipalities in the Lower Mainland. Nice try, though.

 

[E11even]

-Linesmen in Division 2-
I'm not sure of the reasons. Cost? Availability? Scheduling? I'm sure most players would gladly cough up a bit more per season to have them. It might not even be a stretch to say that the refs themselves would take a pay cut to not get yelled at 20 times less a game. Hah! Although you learn to accept it and can't really blame the ref, it really gets bothersome after a while to see lots of nice passing plays, through balls, etc get called incorrectly... both ways.

Good to see Div 1 finally getting them at least. Too high of a level for offside calls being made from behind the play. Anyone know why they were able to get them this year?

 

[sixfyv]

I'm not sure if I will be attending the AGM or not this year, I don't have a vote unfortunately and it will all depend on the date and my schedule.

The last time I did go was about 4 years ago, I was representing the Sporting Club of Vancouver and brought up online registration. My actual words were something like, when are we going to move on from this archaic system of registration, get into the 21st century and have online registration? (Probably not the best approach with Will ) He brought up the double registration potential and that online registration would never happen as long as he was around.

Anyway, it would be nice to see some progress made. I played one season in the FVSL and what a difference. Who would have thought that Mickey Mouse League would be ahead of the VMSL in anything?

I was there, and the main reason he was against the online registration was that it did not allow for the league to collect a signature. He couldn't get over this sticking point. I believe the argument was made that each team could send in a single form with all the players signatures, but it went onto deaf ears. Not sure if the reasoning was "double registration" or if it was "liability/insurance".

 

[freddy]

Agreed. In rugby you either play on the first 15 or second 15 week to week. No CAT, just part of the same club. Oh, and rugby player shower after games and actually talk to and have a beer with the guys they just played against.

True, but rugby players also don't think they are gay if they go after a hairy hole on the piss once every 6 months.