Div 2 2019 Div 2 CUP

Discussion in 'VMSL' started by Canucks4Ever, Jan 28, 2019.

  1. FC Red Star

    FC Red Star Member

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    1) Isn't a reward for a Division 2 Cup winner a spot at Provincial Cup?

    2) If you would have Division 2 Cup winner playing some kind of play-off game for a spot in Division 1 then potentially you could have Division 2 team that is at the bottom of Division 2 (even relegated) being promoted to Division 1 (if they would win Division 2 cup game and then a play-off game against Division 1 team that is placed 3rd from the bottom). Division 2 cup (5, 6 games) simply should not be more important than league's 22 games.

    Anyway, your idea about having some types of play-off games is very good. In my opinion it would be better if runners-up from both pools in Division 2 played a play-off game against each other then the winner of that match to play for a spot in Division 1 with the 3rd team from the bottom in Division 1. That way you could potentially have 3 teams from Division 2 going to Division 1 while 3 teams from Division 1 would be relegated.
    That system would force all teams to play at 100% every game.

    The same system could be applied all across the league. Team #10 in Premier could play against Team #3 in Division 1 and so on.

    So, machel, your idea deserves a lot of consideration.
     
  2. TheClassyLass

    TheClassyLass New Member

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    highlights from quarter finals up on YouTube...



    Nice production!
     
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  3. vancvouersoccer

    vancvouersoccer New Member

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    Yeah I totally agree with the idea of more teams getting promoted to div 1. Right now there are many teams that could be competing in div 1. Over the years div 2 has become very competitive. Recently promoted teams are doing very well in div 1. burnaby metro,burnaby eagles, greencaps lupi etc... Most of which had competitive seasons in div 2 that ran to the last few weeks. 2 spots out of 24 teams is just not good enough I think. Also the way the groups are constructed year to year is another problem. I'm gonna stir the pot a little bit. I know they recently added seeded way of drawing the groups to make it more even, but I still think its not working. 2B was more competitive then 2A. Similar to previous years groups were lopsided. I mean look at the teams left in the cup. 3 are from 2B. I know alot has to do with the cup draw and the brackets, but I still think 2B was stronger. I feel like the league just picks out the groups and tries to give the easier groups to the teams that have never been to div 1. This year 6 teams out of 12 in 2B have been to div 1 in the last few years. How come the league does not hold public draws for divisions, similar to league cup and provincials?
     
  4. dezza

    dezza Well-Known Member

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  5. machel

    machel Well-Known Member

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    1. I believe you're right...the league cup winner gets a shot in the provincials. However if the league cup winner is a group winner then it goes to someone else. I forget who gets the spot off the top of my head.

    2.You have a point but if a lower div.2 team or even div.3 team won the cup and then proceeded to beat the 10th place team in div.1 in a playoff, that in my eyes would be enough. That's 7 straight wins and by the time you get to the quarters/semis you're seeing some really good teams. The group winners didn't even make the semis this year showing how good the competition really is imo.

    3.If my idea is too "out there" for some people then yours is just as good. The level of Div.2 had gone up quite a bit over the last few seasons and 3 teams potentially going up would make sense. Having said that, I'm not sold on the same application with regards to div.1 and Premier. The gap between those two divisions is still quite large.
     
  6. Canucks4Ever

    Canucks4Ever Well-Known Member

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    As mentioned, Shaheen ruined my otherwise perfect round, including the prediction of the upset of Serbia. 13th Legion have a slight chance of still qualifying for the Provincial Cup if they do not make the finals here, but they would need Hrvat to lose on the other side of the draw. For Hrvat themselves, a somewhat surprising journey to the cup final is their only path to the post season tournament. As for Shaheen and Metro, they are likely to still qualify, but, should they both lose, Shaheen will require a playoff against the third place team from 2A, which could well be Metropolitan themselves depending on how the league games finish out. Thus, the most straightforward way to the Provincials is a win here, so there should be plenty of motivation and, hopefully, quality footy as well!

    Quarter Finals: 3/4

    Overall: 34/47


    Completely Baseless Predictions - Semi Finals

    HK Hrvat (2B) v Shaheen (2B)
    This one is tough to call. Shaheen won the first league meeting in a tight 1-0 contest. In the second meeting Shaheen were given the points when Hrvat causedd the game to be abandoned. So at the very least expect this one to be spirited. Hrvat are white hot at the minute, but, of course, Shaheen have had to win just as many games to get this far as well. Add in the fact that a spot in the Provincials is on the line and this has all the elements to be a cracker. When you get the semi finals all it takes is one bounce, one call or one moment of brilliance to make the difference. With all the various subplots let make this one the MOTR. As for a winner, Shaheen would be presumptive favourites given their league record. However, Hrvat have seemingly unlocked that Cup magic, so let make this my Upset Special as well and say they make the final and the Provincials.

    13th Legion (2B) v Metropolitan (2A)
    Two teams here that desperately believe that they should be playing in Division 1. Unfortunately for both of them, another season in Division 2 is on the cards for next year. After a campaign where they have taken a step back, 13th can try and salvage things a bit with a win here and a spot in the Provincials. For Students they have played well this season and were just not quite the best that 2A had to offer. They are certainly and contender to win both this trophy and the Provincials, should they qualify (there is a chance things conspire against them and they miss out). They will be hoping to build on a successful season and carry that momentum into next year. Picking up a trophy or two would obviously lend itself nicely to that. After a comprehensive victory over 2B title contenders Sierra a couple of rounds ago, Students have served notice that they deserve to be favourites. Indeed they shall be. Legion will no doubt bring their best but Metro will be confident they can advance.
     
  7. Observer

    Observer New Member

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    Beautiful day to take in the semis at Burnaby lake turf.
    The first match saw cup stalwarts NK Hrvat edge out a fiesty Shaheen side by a razors edge on extra penalties.
    The Persians controlled the first 20 or so minutes before the play levelled out till the half. The second half was better for the Croats who should have finished a couple. Over time seemed to be a tired affair with both teams not pushing to hard. NK shot the first penalty and scored while Shaheen missed. The second shooters reversed outcomes. the next two shooters scored for both teams then Hrvat missed their 5th. The 5th Shaheen player will not sleep well tonight as he had the chance to end it but was denied by NK goalie Rajun Hyare. Nk bagged the sixth shot before Raj pulled off another great save to send the good guys in black to their 5th Div 2 cup final in search of a 3rd little metal plaque on the wooden base.

    The post game celebration involved taking in the other semi final where UBC edged out a tough 13th Legion side 2-1 in regulation play. The Italians were leading 1-0 but two second half goals by the white and blue undid the angry black and gold. A red card with precious time remaining (followed by another after the game) put the match out of reach for the Legion who were ripping Rueben the ref like crazy. I actually can't believe he took some of the abuse hurled at him before pulling out cards. I'm not saying he deserved it or not as I am not a huge fan of his for sure but i am glad to not have to experience that type of vitriol in the final.

    I sure hope the ref for the final is competent and fair.
    Choo Choo
     
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  8. Observer

    Observer New Member

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    One more thing. A big thank you to Canucks4ever for the time he put into his posts, sharing his insights and knowledge so eloquently in this forum.
    A true champ!
     
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  9. GoF

    GoF Well-Known Member

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    Took in Metropolitan v 13th Legion semi in Saturday. Here's two of the goals, some sending offs, some crunching challenges, some top moaning to the ref, and more! See how many times the phrase "are you serious" crops up! In all seriousness though, thought ref Ruben was more than patient in this one considering the abuse he was getting. He did well. I'd have been dishing cards out left, right, and centre for dissent.

     
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  10. Dude

    Lifetime Better Bastard

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    Hey, you mentioned a brouhaha on Twatter. You going to put in a piece on that?
     
  11. vancvouersoccer

    vancvouersoccer New Member

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    Can someone please answer my question. How come the league does not hold public draws for div 2 divisions, similar to league cup and provincials? perhaps @Canucks4Ever you can answer this question.
     
  12. dezza

    dezza Well-Known Member

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    Wasn't this the first year of a seeded draw to decide the groupings?

    Maybe ask your team manager to propose at the AGM to have the draw public. If there's enough support and the motion passes then there will be a public draw.
     
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  13. Canucks4Ever

    Canucks4Ever Well-Known Member

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    As far as I am aware the draw was open to attend; presumably it was done at a VMSL board meeting (same as the cup draws) and they are not generally closed to the membership. It probably was not well advertised though.

    As @dezza pointed out, if you bring this up at the AGM I am sure they can make a point of explicitly announcing when they are holding the draw for any one who wants to attend. The idea that they "rigged" the draw in favour of "teams that have never been in Div. 1 before" is not even worth addressing as it is so far beyond the scope of rationality.

    The reality is that an off season in Div. 2 can produce a helluva lot of turnover. The draw was proposed in order to stop teams from intentionally trying to finish in a certain placing in order to try and get a favourable group for the following season based on the fact that the groups were previously determined by formula. It is impossible to combat the off season changes and/or mergers that occur which effect competitiveness.

    Let's take a look at the league year over year:

    upload_2019-3-20_12-40-35.png

    upload_2019-3-20_12-40-46.png

    Each pool was drawn with 2 promoted teams and one relegated team. The pools are also balanced with one team of each placing 2nd through 10th the season before. Emphasizing the fact that there are some things you simply cannot account for, of the teams currently leading the way for promotion in 2B one finished 8th last year and the other was not in the league.

    Looks pretty fair and transparent to me.
     
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