BC Soccer Association

[PV]

This thread is for information about the BC$A.

BCSA held its semi annual AGM on the weekend. The only issue of debate was a large fee increase (35% increase) for all youth players in BC. The fee increase proposal from the Executive passed by a 55/45 vote despite the fact the BCSA estimates it will have a $80,000 surplus this year, even without the fee increase. The surplus for 2004/05 would be even larger if not for large legal fees paid to defend the BCSA in court. The extra money that will come from the fee increase must be for a future field acquisition or to buy a new office building because the money is not needed for ongoing operations.

 

[Regs]

35%?

I'll have to ask my coach about that one

 

[PV]

Regs, here are the actual increases.
U12 to U18 players, increase from $19 per player to $26 per player.
U11 Players, increase from $16 to $26 per player.
U6 to U10 players, increase from $9 to $15 per player.

My former Club kept its rates very low for U6 to U10 kids to encourage more kids to play soccer, for example $70 per year which covered uniforms, balls, referees, windup parties, insurance etc. This allowed kids from single parent families to play as well as kids whose parents had never played soccer before. The only thing the BCSA ever provided them in exchange for the fees we paid BCSA was insurance. If we wanted to have coaches or refs trained, then we had to pay BCSA extra for that service.

The increases will bring in an extra $700,000 to $8000,000 per year for BCSA, even though the BCSA is expecting a surplus of $80,000 this year.

 

[Ballbaby]

Regs, here are the actual increases.
U12 to U18 players, increase from $19 per player to $26 per player.
U11 Players, increase from $16 to $26 per player.
U6 to U10 players, increase from $9 to $15 per player.

My former Club kept its rates very low for U6 to U10 kids to encourage more kids to play soccer, for example $70 per year which covered uniforms, balls, referees, windup parties, insurance etc. This allowed kids from single parent families to play as well as kids whose parents had never played soccer before. The only thing the BCSA ever provided them in exchange for the fees we paid BCSA was insurance. If we wanted to have coaches or refs trained, then we had to pay BCSA extra for that service.

The increases will bring in an extra $700,000 to $8000,000 per year for BCSA, even though the BCSA is expecting a surplus of $80,000 this year.

Great! Now how about subsidizing the players who are selected to play for their province. That would be a great idea and then we can truly call it a "Provincial Team". As long as we ignore this fact and allow the selfish "recreational" masses to bully the BCSA around, we will remain sub-par.

 

[PV]

Ballbaby, that would be a good idea, and it would help all the low income kids who can't afford to pay thousands to BCSA to be on the Provincial teams.

Unfortunately, Vic and the VP Finance were asked where the extra money will go and they said they don't have a set plan but they are thinking of hiring two female coaches, and they need BCSA to be able to be able to keep its staff (which means they will pay their staff more), and they say their office building needs repairs before it becomes a liablity. They did not mention registration fees for the provincial teams.

 

[Regs]

Have you seen their office building?

Maybe they could talk to Azzi and work a deal out to funnel some of the VMSL Pizza, erm, fines fund towards building improvement

Anyone know when the last time fees were increased?

I can see a huge "recreational vs elite" player debate brewing...

Cheers,

~Regs.

 

[Ballbaby]

Ballbaby, that would be a good idea, and it would help all the low income kids who can't afford to pay thousands to BCSA to be on the Provincial teams.

Unfortunately, Vic and the VP Finance were asked where the extra money will go and they said they don't have a set plan but they are thinking of hiring two female coaches, and they need BCSA to be able to be able to keep its staff (which means they will pay their staff more), and they say their office building needs repairs before it becomes a liablity. They did not mention registration fees for the provincial teams.

I do not deny that they need to do this. It is a necessity. They can also subsidize their provincial programs. I know Vic and the VP of finance. They are intelligent and fiscally responsible people who share the same vision with those who want to see our players prosper, recreational players and more serious. The problem has always been trying to sustain the balance between these two camps. The recreational players (families) by far make up the majority of the soccer community and I am sure some will raise concerns over the new budget items and plans, let alone subsidizing "elite" players.

I say screw them. I bet most people would accept some of the raises in registration fees to subsidize players aspiring to represent their province or country if we just say we are going to do it. We need to instill some pride back into our community. Right now, it doesn't mean much to be selected to a provincial team and the Clubs have been forced to fill the void.

 

[PV]

Ballbaby, if I read your post correctly you seem to be agreeing with the way BCSA spends its money, and its plans to spend more. Here are a few points to consider:
1) The BCSA has 5 full-time paid coaches - Findlay, Parker, Irvine, Reinkens and Elligott, and many youth clubs which make up BCSA have their own paid head coaches, plus the Northshore Development Centre has paid coaches. Since BCSA coaches don't actually coach kids, except for the Provincial teams, then why does BCSA need 2 more full-time coaches?
2) BCSA total revenue has increased from less than $2 million per year, 5 years ago to over $4million now, and soon to be around $4.8million. Maybe they can find the $160K in the current funding they need to make the provincial teams free, without a fees increase.
3) Rec youth players and their parents don't run BCSA. At the June BCSA AGM, there were 467 total castable ballots and 240 were senior votes, VMSL had 38, FVSL had its own 33 plus 16 proxy votes and MWSL had 60 votes. Seniors had more votes even though they only pay a small portion of the fees.
4) The VP Finance presented a spreadsheet which shows that BCSA had travel expenses of $532,000 for the first 9 months of the year, even though the budget approved at the June AGM indicated that travel would only be $443K for the whole year. There were other areas beyond budget as well.

 

[Captain Shamrock]

The BCSA are ****ing gangsters and they way they are running the provincial programs is a fcuking joke. I have talked to a coach who just stepped aside because of the shite that is going on there. I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine is quite common around the "BC SCHOOL OF EXCELLENCE"



"If you don't come to our development programs, then screw you, you will never play provincially or nationally. Yada yada yada"

I remember reading that. Apparently, the word Monopoly is not just a board game around the BCSA.


Kids who play provinically should NEVER have to pay a cent for making these teams. If they earn the right to represent the province because of their ability, not their parents chequebook, then they shouldn't have to pay a cent. If they're parents want to pay these guys this money, then they deserve it when their kid gets cut, after spending a shite load of money to send them through the 'development' program.

 

[Dude]

Kids who play provinically should NEVER have to pay a cent for making these teams. If they earn the right to represent the province because of their ability, not their parents chequebook, then they shouldn't have to pay a cent. If they're parents want to pay these guys this money, then they deserve it when their kid gets cut, after spending a shite load of money to send them through the 'development' program.

Couldn't agree more, if that's the current state of affairs.

As athletes growing up, we saw too much of the "other kid's parent's chequebook" having too great an influence in other sports (specifically Baseball and Hockey) on weather that kid gets selected to a Rep team or not. One of the nice things about soccer growing up was that the money was secondary to team selection...it was pure. I can say from personal experience that wasn't the case with baseball. It always has been and always will be with hockey, because extra $$$ means more camps, power skating, and probably burn-out too. But then, the sheer numbers of kids playing at the high levels will always overcome the deficiencies in hockey. I don't know how it is now with Baseball, but I would suggest that the sport is doing something right judging by the number of players they are sending to pro and college careers. It seems to me that a greater emphasis is placed on supporting the club systems, as evidenced by the strong influence these clubs have in development right through to either the kid being drafted or recruited.

Maybe a model soccer should look to, as the demographic and climat challenges both sports face are very similar. Closer than any other successful soccer nation we can look to, anyhow.

 

[PV]

The attachment is a file showing the BCSA financial situation for the first nine months of this fiscal year coampared to teh budget for the year.

It shows areas where they are overbudget (travel, other costs, accomodations, and events) and areas where they are under budget (apparel and equipment, salaries and benefits, subcontractors, and meals).

 

[Regs]

PV,

Sorry for taking so long to post here again... I had a chance to discuss some of this with my coach and he brought up a couple of things. He said that he was at the 'meeting' or 'vote' or whatever it is called and said noone got up to discuss/object to the proposed changes when they were presented and the opportunity to do so was made. I suppose in fairness to the association, it would be hard to rethink directions and such if they are pretty much being told through proper channels that things are OK with the membership?

The second point that I remember was that while a jump from $19 to $26 seems large, in the grande scheme of things, it is not. Say a child is asked to pay their club $120 to play for a season (and for arguements sake, let's say that season is 6 months long). Is a $6 increase really that much now? Going from $120 to $126 doesn't seem like much... many people, even low-income families I would think, spend that much on a couple cups of coffee these days. It amounts to $1 a month extra is all (in the hypothetical 6 month season).

What do you think?

Cheers,

~Regs.

 

[Dude]

I would think, spend that much on a couple cups of coffee these days.

For the record, about $80.00 / month at Bean's & Babes.

Low income,

Dude.

 

[PV]

Regs, In answer to your two points.
1) Your coach may have been asleep. There was debate about it, after tedious procedural wrangling which probably caused many people to step oustide the room for coffee. Someone tried to table the proposal, which caused lots of confusion, but finally the Prez rejected the tabling idea as out of order. When the motion was finally made, the delegate from North Disrict argued against it, and other people spoke in favour. The vote passed with 110 in favour of our around 200. Most of the debate points were made during the procedural wrangling.
2) Yes its a small amount in the overall scheme, but Clubs costs are also rising at the same time. More and more cities are charging user fees to youth clubs for use of grass fields and gyms, plus for artificial turf fields. Youth clubs are hiring technical directors and they are paying more for uniforms and balls. Youth clubs also pay BCSA for training coaches and refs, usually around $2,000 for a weekend coaches course, and BCSA keeps most of that as profit. BCSA is also pressuring Clubs to use on-line registration, and that costs Clubs more money.
The issue is shifting - it is now becoming, what are youth clubs getting from BCSA for all the money they pay? There is a perception out there that BCSA does very little for the majority of soccer playing youth, other than provide insurance coverage worth $1.50 per child. BCSA does run Provincial Cup competitions for gold and metro teams, but they make up only one-third of all the registered youth players, and the competitions are not expensive to run becasue they get lots of volunteer help. BCSA does pay $6 per child to the CSA.
The increase is large in comparison to this years youth fees, and was proposed by the BCSA Board of Directors wthout commitments about how it would be used to improve soccer in BC. It passed partly because people have faith in the new Prez.

 

[Regs]

I dunno PV, from what I have heard, there are more than a couple of youth clubs that are doing very well and have a lot of money left over after paying out their basic costs (uniforms, fees, paid coaches).

I've also heard over the years that there is a lot of in-fighting amongst districts and such over petty matters that don't really look out for the good of the game.

I can agree with you that the 'perception' granted towards BCSA hasn't been great in the past but at what point do people have to stop and get over it? I mean, they now have a very progressive president who is making, no, make that, requiring people to start to look at the big picture and get the ship righted.

What is wrong with getting the necessary funds in order to get some additional paid coaches before the hiring process?

Are there provincial programs for females currently? I dunno myself, but if not, it would seem a pretty good idea to start dedicting some resources to that area.

I guess I'm just trying to give the current leadership the benefit of the doubt. 2 years ago, I probably would have been thinking from the same angle as you (and others no doubt) without any hesitation.

Good discussion though!

 

[PV]

Reg's I'll switch from BCSA Finances to Azzi's column in this months WFP, since it mentions the BCSA.
First he takes a swipe at BCSA for the way it runs the youth Provincial Cup. Then he takes a swipe at them for not adopting ideas from the soccer playing world, instead the BCSA changes rules all the time, depending on who's in charge. Finally he takes a swipe at the marriage between the BCSA and the Whitecaps, because it only helps the Whitecaps and not all clubs.

He may be correct, the marriage may not help other clubs, but the BCSA does very little to help youth clubs now, unless the Clubs pay extra for it, and I am not convined the BCSA will do anything to help the Whitecaps. Frankly the Whitecaps don't need the BCSA's help in youth player development. The only thing the Whitecaps want is for BCSA not to discriminate against Whitecaps Super Y legaue players when it comes to choosing players for BCSA Provincial teams.

 

[Regs]

PV,

Is there anything good you can say about the BCSA? What are your thoughts on the Pacific Rim tournament (or whatever it was called with Millwall and Hearts) they held over the summer? Wasn't that a pretty big success in both exposure for the game and for showcasing the talent here in BC?

~Regs.

 

[PV]

Regs, yes the BCSA does good things, and they get a lot of money from Clubs to do it. I won't use this reply to list the past failures and the current deficiencies, but rather some of the positives.
The games with Millwall and Hearts was fairly well attended at Swangard, and it raised the profile of soccer. It also led to two players signing with Millwall.
The U14 and U16 girls Provincial teams did well at the Nationals.
The BCSA academy at Burnaby Central is a good initiative.
The public partnership with the Whitecaps is a step in the right direction, and by making it public it will be hard for Prov. team coaches to refuse to take Whitecaps SuperY league players, and other Super Y players onto Prov. teams.
The BCSA effort with District Development Centres wll probably help the remote District centres.
BCSA has improved its website, so information is more easily available to soccer people.
BCSA helps players get university scholarships.
Since my previous post had Azzi's negative comments about BCSA from the WFP, I 'll mention Len McAdams quote in the WFP that BCSA has improved because now when you phone the BCSA office you get the same girl two weeks in a row.

 

[PV]

After the earlier discussion about the BCSA budget, the BCSA delegates voted in favour of the budget at the recent AGM. The budget includes a large fee increase for youth players. The reps for adult leagues voted in favour, which according to a youth source, made some youth associations angry since adults only make up 20% of the membership but they get 50% of the votes so they forced the higher youth fees on the youth side.

At the semi-annual AGM, Victor Montagliani asked the adult reps not to vote on the issue, so the youth reps could set their own fees.

The good news is the BCSA has lots more money.

 

[PV]

The BC Provincial All-star teams atoned for last year's dismal performance by winning a gold, two silver and bronze at the recent Canadian championships. To find out who the futre stars are, who made up the BC teams, check out the BCSA website. If you can find the rosters, then please post them here.