BCSPL Rule - Substitutions

[soccerdad]

Of course, I forgot about the 9 SUBSTITUTES on the Fusion teams

Have fun with that.

don't forget the 30% minimum play rule....tricky to make sure all those kids get their 30%?

 

[mtkb]

30% is not each game, its a cumulative minimum over the whole season...

 

[Stuck in Bridge Traffic]

5 substitutions during match time and 2 at half time for 7 in total. Once subbed off the player does not return for the remainder of the game even if subbed off in first half (hopefully I've been misquoted on this). This is more onerous than SYL. 30% minimum match play over the season. WTF!! $2500/year... ack! my wife's varicose veins just blew out. She's pissed!

 

[bettermirror]

Bridge Traffic - just to play Devil's Advocate a little bit. You sound like a person who didn't register their kid in both SYL and Metro the last few years. If you had you'd know that roughly speaking $2500 is the equivalent cost for SYL and Metro (give or take, expenses this and that)

1. The league, as is any team, is "registrant beware." Most kids are never really guaranteed playing time on any team.
3. If you and/or child is unhappy with 30% playing time switch to another HPL team where more playing time appears more certain or drop to Metro or Division 1 where it is almost guaranteed (ie, if yer kid good enough for 30% HPL they must be good enough for certain 50% Metro....)

??

People just need to be realistic with themselves and their kid. If they can afford to put their kid in a $2500 league to begin with and do so with the expectation their kid will play most of every game or develop to such a level that over time they will do so, then great. If $2500 is a tough proposition for your family and you realize your kid is likely not a "star" on his team and thus is likely going to be a 30% kid then tell the club right away and drop a level.

If you are concerned about your child's playing time (usually can be observed in pre-season if you watch training closely or the exhibition/tournaments) then tell the club and withdraw before the season begins. Don't suffer through it making everything no fun to play - that's a reason why many kids quit.

What bothers me is when folks say "we paid and so my kid deserves to start most every game - oh ya, and in his best position." Well, if that is true than what about the rest of the kids? Don't they deserve the same thing? Except there are only so many games and usually a few players per position. One parent came to me this summer and said "So and so on the uXX team is a really good player. We have to win the next game. You must call him down to play for us because he is the same age as our boys." I said "OK, then what I'll do is cut your son from the game day roster so that I have room for this kid." Of course that wasn't acceptable, but it was perfectly acceptable to cut one of the so-called "subs". Obviously I didn't drop anybody to make room for the kid that didn't want to be on the team in the first place and chose to play up - there did end up being room for him due to injury or suspension though.

 

[SCP]

substitution rule is a little harsh I would say.......this should be implemented in the masters

 

[nocents]

^^ Excellent post Bettermirror. $2500 is actually less than the 2010/2011 combined Vancouver FC + Coastal FC cost and from where I sit I see no shortage of interest or talent on the Fusion teams. Fusion has also made it clear along with other clubs that players will not be turn away due to financial hardship. However, I do think the cost serves as a deterrent for some that might otherwise be interested. I guess we'll see what happens when a player whom took a pass on HPL, because the family could not afford it or could not justify paying for HPL, is asked to move up. Will the the HPL club cover the difference? Where does a club draw the line?

Another thing to keep in mind is that the mini-season is meant to help the players and the teams settle in. There is likely to be movement at the end of the mini-season.

Cost aside, I think a 20 player roster for a youth team is nuts. There are other solutions, such as having a training roster or some equivalent that would be better for the kids, but would mean charging less than the full amount and solid coordination with the feeder metro team(s). I know that CMFSC and Coastal have both used training rosters for their Y-league teams.

 

[bettermirror]

Having been in a room with one of the BCSPL clubs' general managers I can tell ya all the clubs are perfectly aware there will be roster movement for many reasons (playing time, team getting butt kicked in mini-season, cost etc). 20 players does sound excessive. My recommendation would be 16-18 but that you invite the 2nd tier team(s) you are associated with the train with the BCSPL team (or maybe just select players from that group) and if it is likely to be the same 4-8 2nd tier players training up charge them a nominal training fee (training kit, and some of the coaches time...).

Abby used "training rosters" with SYL this year as well when possible.

 

[nocents]

As an HPL player parent, not closely involved with any club, I have been an advocate a 16 full time with 4-6 (or 8) training roster model. This would allow a rotation of 2 of the training spots for possible HPL playing time. I also think that the rosters should be re-evaluated at mid-season as well as the end of the season (every 6 months). Both of these combined would augment player development, ease transition between BCSPL - MLS, and even provide additional club revenue.

 

[between the pipes]

Colin if you are so*opposed*to the HPL, why did TSS apply for for a franchise??

 

[Colin Elmes]

Colin if you are so*opposed*to the HPL, why did TSS apply for for a franchise??

.

Actually, Sportstown FC applied with TSS as the main service provider.

Supported it in theory- something the soccer community needed to do sometime ago. Dont agree with how some of it is being rolled out. Should never have taken 8 franchises to begin. Should have just taken the best 4 to 6 RFP replies and sent a message that this is Elite and that it will be different this time. Will continue to ask questions in public domain on this. Most of the feedback I have received on our questions and editorials from people whom I have respect for in the soccer community suggest that these questions need to continue to be asked. Most people are to scared of reprisals to speak their mind on this. That is not a concern of mine.

 

[soccerdad]

30% is not each game, its a cumulative minimum over the whole season...

yes, I do realize it's over the course of the season but I imagine it could still be a bit tricky to make sure all 20 get their 30% in?

 

[mtkb]

yes, I do realize it's over the course of the season but I imagine it could still be a bit tricky to make sure all 20 get their 30% in?

Not for the rosters that are at 12 or 13, lol...

For the rest, I suppose, but the other side of it is that if someone isnt worthy of 30%, one wonders if that player truly belongs at the BCSPL level in the first place...

I dont think we need to dump on Colin for applying and then being somewhat critical. Trying to influence things from inside the tent rather than outside is something that, strangely enough, I have a lot of time for... I doubt Colin would have become an unabashed cheerleader of all things BCSPL merely by way of having his bid accepted... I suspect he would have spoken up either way, and I don't know that critical viewpoints are a bad thing... I'm certainly listening - not necessarily agreeing, but listening

 

[Colin Elmes]

Not for the rosters that are at 12 or 13, lol...

For the rest, I suppose, but the other side of it is that if someone isnt worthy of 30%, one wonders if that player truly belongs at the BCSPL level in the first place...

I dont think we need to dump on Colin for applying and then being somewhat critical. Trying to influence things from inside the tent rather than outside is something that, strangely enough, I have a lot of time for... I doubt Colin would have become an unabashed cheerleader of all things BCSPL merely by way of having his bid accepted... I suspect he would have spoken up either way, and I don't know that critical viewpoints are a bad thing... I'm certainly listening - not necessarily agreeing, but listening

Thanks mtkb. And you are correct I would have continued my search for improving our elite level in this game from within. There is clearly not enough true debate regarding our youth policies in this neck of the woods because people are worried about their jobs or parents are worried about whether their kid will be impacted by being outspoken and asking awkward questions. The system up untill now has survived on being the only gig in town as opposed to surviving on the quality of their product. Many are in the process of being found out.

 

[Captain Shamrock]

Why the bollocks would a 14 year-old want to be on a 'training roster'? Kids learn the most playing games. Training sets them up for these games and if a kid is training with a group, playing in games with the same group is going to be more beneficial. Makes sense, right? Or am I missing something?

 

[Stuck in Bridge Traffic]

Bridge Traffic - just to play Devil's Advocate a little bit. You sound like a person who didn't register their kid in both SYL and Metro the last few years. If you had you'd know that roughly speaking $2500 is the equivalent cost for SYL and Metro (give or take, expenses this and that)

My kid has played Metro since U14, has always been a starter in Metro, and will be a starter on the BCSPL team this year.

We did not go to SYL for a number of reasons including wear & tear recovery time, requiring free time for baseball and other ventures, playing in the TSS spring program some years, and hearing of dissatisfaction with the coaching and a lack of emphasis on player development over winning in recent years.

I have done my time as a coach up to U13 and served on a club executive for several years where player development vs winning was a hot topic of discussion. I've heard much of the rationalization of game time vs practice time over and over.

I just don't see the rule as it stands as beneficial to player development in this first year of the BCSPL. At U16 I see certain players who are late developers and need game time to work out flaws in their match play. I also see plenty of fading U14/U15 "stars" who will get starts based on their past reputation but the reality is they have plateaued and are stealing valuable match time from the kids who could use it most.

I suppose we should rely on the coaches to be able to sort this out but with all the new "paid" coaches who have not seen the progression of certain kids, how can they really sort this out when it seems to be the mandate to get wins. It will certainly sharpen the skill set of certain coaches in managing their players but a rule should not be put in place to improve the coaching.

In particular, this rule may be of small consequence to the boys program but likely has a much greater impact with the girls program where the talent pool is not as deep and there is a wide variance in skill levels on a given team.

 

[nocents]

Why the bollocks would a 14 year-old want to be on a 'training roster'? Kids learn the most playing games. Training sets them up for these games and if a kid is training with a group, playing in games with the same group is going to be more beneficial. Makes sense, right? Or am I missing something?

These players would be on one of the feeder MSL teams and would play MSL when not called up.

 

[Colin Elmes]

These players would be on one of the feeder MSL teams and would play MSL when not called up.

different seasons? how does that work( except for this mini season)

 

[bettermirror]

There is some overlap of seasons; Feb-April, and again Sept-Nov. And any kids felt to be good enough for to be a squad player could be invited to do so over the summer period (maybe for a pro-rated basis)

 

[What' all this then?]

There is some overlap of seasons; Feb-April, and again Sept-Nov. And any kids felt to be good enough for to be a squad player could be invited to do so over the summer period (maybe for a pro-rated basis)

Have a look at the MSL and their season is done at the end of February. Then it's cup. Are cut HPL players allowed in the B or C or Z cup or whatever it's called these days?

 

[revolutionary]

I have been interestingly reading this forum for some time and have not heard many voices of support for this policy.

I would like to know what the substitution policy detractors feel is gained or learned from the cycling of players that happened in the Metro League? I have been involved in games as a coach where 20+ substitutions have happened, and some players have been subbed in and out 2 times during the game. How is this beneficial to any players development?

My personal opinion is that this teaches players that whether they play poorly or exceptionally; it doesnt really matter as it is not re-inforced with their play-time.