BCTF Strike 2012

[canuckboy]

Sorry that's the raise we got.

Hold on so let's say i make 100k. I don't get a raise for 5 years. The inflation rate is 2%. After 5 years, that 100k has 10%+ less purchasing power. How is that not a cut in pay? And yes our accountant hates me

 

[johnnybluenose]

If you make 100k and inflation goes up 2% annually- that means to have the same spending power you will have to make 102k. The next year you add another 2% and you will have to make 104,040.00, the next year you'll have to make 106,120.00...and so on and so on.

Pay cut means you earn less money per quantity of time measure. Pay freeze means you earn no more no less, regardless of COL or Inflation.

Have the teachers been indoctrinating your kids and thus them you?

Lake Country Calendar - Fletcher: BCTF is indoctrinating our kids

 

[canuckboy]

No, I'm just calling net zero what it is. You choose to call it something different. K go enjoy the sun, there are lots of pro-teacher articles I can post which won't change your mind anymore than your right wing one's will change mine.

 

[johnnybluenose]

I'm not anti teacher. If you missed prior comments you will know I'm pro teacher, but very anti-union and anti-BCTF.

Net Zero isn't what you think it is. You and I aren't arguing, you're misunderstanding that I'm correct and you are not.

 

[Regs]

The last 4/5 posts were brought to you by the BCTF / BCGOV bargaining sessions.

 

[Dude]

CS...you sir are a breath of fresh air.

I find myself too bloody wound up to even type. I HATE it when public service people compare themselves to the private sector. In exchange for a great benefits package and pension, and quite honestly a fair wage, you've given up the right to free barganing and risk that comes w/ the private sector.

I don't begrudge a pay raise that is reasonable, but you must give something back...starting with accumulated sick days (no more accumulation here forward), no bereavement except for immediate family, and a drastic scaling back of the pension contribution.

And you know what? Last year my kid's teachers did a great job. This year? I HAVE NO EFFING IDEA, THEY DON'T TALK TO US!

FFS...

 

[robj]

CS...you sir are a breath of fresh air.

I find myself too bloody wound up to even type. I HATE it when public service people compare themselves to the private sector. In exchange for a great benefits package and pension, and quite honestly a fair wage, you've given up the right to free barganing and risk that comes w/ the private sector.

I don't begrudge a pay raise that is reasonable, but you must give something back...starting with accumulated sick days (no more accumulation here forward), no bereavement except for immediate family, and a drastic scaling back of the pension contribution.

And you know what? Last year my kid's teachers did a great job. This year? I HAVE NO EFFING IDEA, THEY DON'T TALK TO US!

FFS...

I achieved 6 agreements under net zero and I did get monetary benefits ! Be creative FFS.

 

[mtkb]

Its really quite simple. The public and private sectors are each supposed to have their own benefits and detriments. Simply put, what you gain in job security and benefits you give up in pure earning potential.

Today's public sector thinks that they are somehow entitled to the benefits, but also expect the income potential that those of us in the private sector aspire to. Nice try. You wanna win the Tour de France, ditch the training wheels...

As for cost of living comparisons, while I stand to be corrected I would respectfully suggest that I have any teacher beat. Over the last 15 years the judges and prosecutors have seen their salaries more than double. In contrast, those of us that take public defender cases have seen our "tariff" cut by about 10 percent, not accounting for cost of living. I get that more money to defense lawyers will be as popular as Steve Francis turning up around here, but when the teachers whine about this topic it just blows my mind.

Incidentally, since someone brought it up, I can assure you that the Law Society is no friend of lawyers. They are absolutely inquisitorial with respect to any and all complaints, however unfair or specious. They exist to protect the public, not the legal profession. Self-regulation is an obvious problem with the po-po, but not so with us, at this point.

No doubt the teachers on here put in a ton of extra time to make sure that their classrooms and schools function properly. I also have no doubt that the government has taken advantage of your willingness to do so for too long. Why am I so sure? Because its the same everywhere. I have ethical obligations that force me to do a boatload of things for my public defender clients that I get paid exactly zero for. It sucks, it isnt fair, and it's life. Fcuking deal; the rest of us do...

 

[Kick'em]

MTKB you have won the chance to play again!

But unfortunately are wrong. The BC law society treat firms like Lawson Lundell, BLG, and Fasken Martineau completely differently then they do small practices. Have you seen the trust audits and how the Benchers deal with discrepancies?

Having said this, compared to most self governed professional societies the law society is a breath of fresh air and as, I agree that, it takes action against member that are problematic. They do make it easy for the general public to voice a complaint. They also do a significant amount of work screening out people not of "good character."

Truthfully I couldn't resist taking a lawyer shot but mostly included them for comedic relief.

 

[Captain Shamrock]

How do you know when a lawyer is lying?


His lips are moving


Oldie but goodie.



One more day of this and that will be it. The TV said there were 5 000 people/teachers at the rally in Victoria. The e-mail sent to us from the BCTF said 10 000. No wonder we don't get anything. The ability to look at the numbers honestly seems to be an issue at this point in time.

 

[freddy]

I find myself feeling sorry for lawyers suddenly. More money for lawyers, that's what I say!

 

[Dude]

I find myself feeling sorry for lawyers suddenly. More money for lawyers, that's what I say!

Sneaky lawyers! Gotta watch them...they'll show up to a knife fight with a gun!

 

[johnnybluenose]

The more I read about this the closer I get in attitude and frustration to Dude, and i don't even have kids in the Public School System (mine will be doing Private School thnk you very much)

Supposedly the REAL reason (so many of my teacher friends tell me) is that Bill 22 will do two things that are pissing off the TF and many (not all) teachers.
1. Less Rules and controls surrounding seniority
2. Taking more power from the TF and shifting it to the Govt

I like both.
1. Teachers are in a supply/demand vacuum. There's more teachers than classrooms, and I'm sure there's a great many dinosaur teachers that could be sent out to pasture in favor of some new hot chick outta Uvic or UBC making way less, who will do a better job though being able to better relate, be relevant, higher energy etc.
2. The People elect the Govt, the people (taxpayers) do not elect the teachers nor their union leadership. Why should the TF have the biggest stick when it comes to evaluations, reviewes of staffing levels, resource management? etc etc etc?

The Govt needs to not blink and stay firm on this. As much as it pains me to say this, if they stay hard on task they could invite a mob mentality general strike and unions could bust all over. It would be a painful spring/summer...but what a way to fill the newspapers and rile up the joe average to head to the polls!

 

[Dude]

JBN…trust me, many a time I’ve considered the Private School route.

Our issue (family wise) is that the missus and I are not in favor of a religious private school, so that narrows down our choices to the likes of Southpoint in South Surrey. That’s a major commitment…talking in the range of $40-50K / year for two kids.

Our thoughts are that we will be looking at this as an option for our kids for grades 11-12 only.

Mini Dude is moving into grade 8 this year, and lucky for us we have RE Mountain a 20 minute walk, or 8 minute bike ride from the house. He’s applying to the Honours and International Baccalaureate program there, and I’d be surprised if he doesn’t get in. He inherited his mom brains, lucky for him (and both our tempers, lucky for the RE Mountain hockey program). The issue is that our son right now talks about wanting to either, A) Go to MEI or Harvard, depending on if he wants to get into Lawyering, Banking, or Engineering, or B) Graduating HS, getting a crappy van, fixing it up, loading it with bikes and skis, and going off on a year long soul searching missing through Canada and the US, maybe couch surf in the Alps.

Of course, I told him he should do B, and I’ll even buy him the van, load it full of bikes and boards, and give him a gas card for good measure.

Our daughter is totally different than our son, and we have yet to see where her leanings are…but wouldn’t be surprised if it is to do the Europe thing. She wants to be a designer, and has her eye on living in Paris. She’s 9, FFS. I’ve suggested Vancouver may well provide what she needs, but she isn’t biting.

It’s only money, they say, and our options for Private school would definitely dent the “later year” aspirations our kids have.

But I digress…I am not 100% convinced that Private can actually offer a better overall education than Public. I actually have faith in our teachers, and ourselves as parents to do our job. The only reason I’d consider Southpoint is if the school offers the connections to the Ivy League schools that my boy talks of wanting to join. I only have one connection to Harvard…and that is through an old flame in my early 20’s that would surely end with my nuts in a sling from my missus if I contacted her today.

Anyhow, the point I guess I’m trying to make…we all want what is best for our kids inside the means we can reasonably afford. If I were making Rangerforever money, they’d both be at Southpoint now, no questions ask, while I observe from a distance- me and my monocle, that is (it allows RF to see better). But, as it is, we right now at the mercy of the Public system, and the BCTF holding us as a family effing hostage. As you’ve pointed out, the whole effing educational system needs to be shredded, and 100% completely reformed. Tell you what, how about the Government offer the teachers this: you will retain your seniority, and not surer any loss in wage, benefits, or pension, and the promise of a certain % level of pay raise over the next 5-10 years in exchange for decertifying? All CURRENT teachers to be grandfathered w/ their existing benefits packages and rights. From that point on, one school board (BC) with sub-level management for each district, as you’ve suggested. Slash the operating costs. Negotiate a new deal with a new union that includes a reasonable pay increase for all teachers, and a NEW benefits package for all new teachers coming in, and a reasonable pension more closely in line with society, no accumulated sick days, no open ended bereavement.

I’d love it if the Government thought outside the box here, made it damn clear of their intent to bust the union and reform this system in a way that is long term sustainable and beneficial for both existing teachers and future teachers, instead of the exponential bleeding and festering we have now that is the teacher’s contracts.

 

[akslop]

Teachers,

maybe its time to disband from the unioun.

Seriously, why the fuk is the union sending patrols out to YVR looking for teachers leaving for town a couple days?

Are teachers now on the "no fly list"

What a waste.!

Shamrock, do teachers actually not show up at the picket lines and have a comrade sign in for them so they can collect their 50 bucks?

 

[Captain Shamrock]

Akslop, I am not showing up and would ask anyone to do that. That would be the lowest of the low......I don't know if anyone is doing that. It would be sad if they were......if it was for $500 then it would make sense.

As for your Union comment, you're not getting ANY argument from this person.........

 

[Captain Shamrock]

Dude, Southpointe is in Tsawwassen.......Southridge is in South Surrey I believe. It might be a good idea to make sure you're applying to the right one.

 

[johnnybluenose]

Dude, I hear you on the Religious aspect. If you aren't a man or a family of faith I get it. The only Private Schools that are not religious that I'm aware of in the Valley is Southpointe in Delta & Southridge in the Morgan Crossing area of South Surrey, and it's expensive. Southridge in South Surrey says the average students parent's income is $102,900.00 Southpointe says $82,800.00 is their average.

I grew up in Public "inner city" Surrey Schools till grade 9 when I went to a Private School. My 4 year old is already enrolled for next year for Kindergarten at a Surrey Christian Private School...the younger one will be joining her in a few years.

Look at the stats from the Fraser Institute Report Card. The TF always criticizes this report because- surprise surprise- independent schools kick ass on Public Schools with only 2 Public Schools in the Top 20 of the report card- University Hill in Vancouver and Okanagan Mission in Kelowna...both schools have very high earning families living in those neighborhoods. (Both over $100k per/yr)

Compare academic rankings and ratings of British Columbia schools

 

[Sandman]

JBN, I once again fail to recognize what your point is with the above mentioned post? Simply that the Fraser Institute (based on their established criteria) states Private Schools are better than Public Schools?

 

[johnnybluenose]

Yes Sandman. It's a post with preamble further discussing what Dude posted about. I shared a personal experience, provided some facts that could/should instigate more conversation that could/would enrich everyone's lives through more conversation and debate on TTP.

But thanks for your post that has a lot of use for all of us here today.

There's two major differences between Public Schools and Private Schools in my mind, while maintaining a mandated curriculum.
1. No Unionized teachers force
2. Minimal to no interference from Bureaucracy like School Boards, School Districts, etc.

Following that thought I see one result. Without Unionized Teachers Collectively Bargaining with the Govt and dealing directly with the employer (The School) you see better outcomes in things like Gaps between School Makrs and Standardized Tests like Provincial Exams. You see higher to flawless graduation rates. Without mass interference from Bureaucracy you have better access to info, time with teachers, collaborative meetings with School Board/Trustees/Teachers/Parents/Students all resulting in a near clean sweep of the "Top Schools in BC"

Result: Private Schools > Public Schools (with the small * being that if you live in a neighborhood or catchment area where folks earn 100k+ you have a good chance of being in a good school)

What do you mean by "based on their established criteria" ????