BCTF Strike 2012

[akslop]

Most teachers that teach at private schools are not certified and only teach at the private schools until they become certified. then they jump ship to the public school system to make a better buck or leave the teaching for a different career..

Send your kids here...
Abbotsford Cyber School

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[johnnybluenose]

Disagree. The teachers at the high school I went to and the school my kids are going to have long standing teachers that have been there a very long time and having fully recognized credentials, or I wouldn't have gone there or will be sending my kids there.

Sure there are going to be the odd exception to this rule.

In the 4 years I went to FVCHS I don't recall one of my teachers jumping ship to the Public system. I do remember one of my Science/Chem/Physics teachers stating how teaching Summer School and marking provincials made up for his lost wages by teaching in an independent and he'd have to be certified to do both of those activities wouldn't he?

 

[Bronco]

My oldest daughter (6) goes to Holy Cross in Burnaby, and quite frankly we are extremely pleased with the level of education and the quality of instruction. Faith aside, she is reading at a higher level, learning French, and has greater math skills than kids we know that are at public school also in grade 1. There is constant feedback from her teacher, and progress reports. The detail in the report cards in increadbile. I have lost all faith in the public school system. If you compare the 2, there really is no choice, and if you have the means, I suggest private is the only solution!!!!

 

[RL RCD]

To clarify, we get paid for 10 months....we pay into our pension(imagine that), we pay into our 'benefits'(only get up to 20% back if we go to physio for example). Don't get me wrong......I'm very satisfied with what I earn as a teacher and enjoy what I do. Hence the reason why I voted NO. I do understand the conditions in certain areas are not as good and I understand if that's the area of concern. As Regs mentioned, I don't get why things from the bargaining team like the bereavement issues, are made public without us even having a say. That bereavement thing was the most embarrassing thing since our last 'leader', Sims, saying we damand a 24% increase. It is an embarrassing time to be a teacher in more ways that one at the moment.

As mentioned, if I had another job waiting tomorrow that paid the same, I'd be gone. Everything outside the classroom or off the practice field/floor is a mess.

Captain,

Based on so many comments in the past, it seems that you are one of those good teachers. Believe me, there are no so many good teachers and as a parent I know that as a fact!

Anyway, compare what you have with something like this: working for a private employer, starting vacation 2 weeks, takes then 5 years to get 3 weeks and that is it, 5 paid sick days a year on average (and there are so many private companies that do not pay a single day), 3 UNPAID bereavement days (this is, by the way, regulated by Employment Standards Act so private employers cannot deny it but they are not happy to see anyone off for 3 days even if it is a bereavement), a pension plan is something that 95% of all private companies will never even think of, let alone eventually implement it, salaries are always lower than what other people make in public companies, they (private employers) can terminate your employment any time they want, absolutely no job security, no extended medical and dental, should I even mention that MSP is something that every individual has to pay (try to explain to a private employer that it would be nice to have that benefit although it would be taxable), and so on.

Now, again, compare what I listed (and that is unfortunately what great majority of employees in private sector have) with what teachers have and you certainly understand why there is no sympathy for teachers' cause here. With these 3 days off many parents had to pay more money for day cares, before and after school care, babysitting, and so on. Asking for 15 days bereavement? 15% pay increase? God, I'd like to know what would happen if any of you went to a private employer and ask for such a raise! They would just show you the door!

It is quite disgusting that there are two completely opposite systems and working conditions in this country; one for public employees where they have good wages, good benefits, pension plan, and so on while great majority of employees in private sector are literally slaves and nothing else!

I have not seen a single report from my kids' teachers this year. Somebody already mentioned that teachers found time to go on a school trip to Whistler but, of course, they were not allowed by their union to write report cards. I mean, it is so wrong, on so many levels that I cannot even explain it.

You guys should be ashamed of this action and start thinking what other working people in this province and this country actually have, especially those that work for private employers.

To finish the same way you did, if I had a chance to work as a teacher tomorrow, I'd be so happy to finally have job security, more than decent wages (compared, again, to private companies), good benefits, sick days, extended medical and dental, pension plan, work with the kids, coach a school's team, have two months off every year, and so on, and so on.

 

[canuckboy]

Where do you guys work? I know lots of guys that work on the waterfront, for the railroads, or in the trades. These guys work in the private sector and are unionized. Everyone there has good job security, raises every year, and
wow, a defined pension plan. Their employers are also very profitable. Seriously if you want good job security for the rest of your life, with better money than the teachers go to the CP Yard in Poco, pass a piss test and make 50k plus in your first year.

 

[canuckboy]

What I will concede is that both big labour and big business in BC have figured out it's a partnership and both sides win when the employee's are happy and the company is growing and making money. Because education, and health care are costs, it's difficult to rationalize any king of increases in pay because there is no "profit" per say. It's like were are stuck in the 70's here where both sides need to get thier head out of their ass and realize it's 2012, not 1976.

 

[bananaman]

Now, it might only be me but if the only way you can determine if your child is doing well in school is by reading a report card that comes three times a year and only AFTER the work has been done then wow. Report cards tell you a letter grade, attendance and a nice little note about your child. If you wanted to know about their progress you could do something simple like ask them or look in their planner, check the teacher website for assignments, and email/phone the teacher (yes, we will reply and set up a meeting if you need it). The main thing on the report card that means something is work habits. If your child is getting S or N, that should worry you more than getting A's. Parent involvement is essential in the education process and simple, everyday conversations with your child will tell you if you should be worried. I send hom tests to be signed, I have a website set up with all homework, assignments, and criteria sheets, as well as daily planner notes for those who need reminders. So the critics who say we are not doing our jobs because we don't write a report card are way off base and those who think report cards are the be all and end all of your child's education need to think again. And yes, there are teachers who do't reply to parents, do not welcome communication but even though we are still in a job action situation it is all systems go in my classroom and if you want to know how your kid is doing all you have to do is ask!

 

[RL RCD]

Where do you guys work? I know lots of guys that work on the waterfront, for the railroads, or in the trades. These guys work in the private sector and are unionized. Everyone there has good job security, raises every year, and
wow, a defined pension plan. Their employers are also very profitable. Seriously if you want good job security for the rest of your life, with better money than the teachers go to the CP Yard in Poco, pass a piss test and make 50k plus in your first year.

I guess the same applies to teachers.

Beside that, I was talking about small to medium private companies which, by the way, employ most of the workforce in this country. Big private companies (unionized) are different story. Almost as same as BCTF.

 

[Gurps]

Just a a few thoughts.....

My personal opinion is that Unions are fine in the private sector, but have no place in the public sector.

Why?

Generally speaking, private sector unions are created somewhat by market forces. Take a lumber mill as an example. I have had many family members work in a lumber mill. I worked in one while going to University. The job sucked. It was very hard work. No way I would have done it unless I was getting paid well. Even then I barely mustered up the motivation to do the job. It did make me study much harder once I was back at school at SFU.

There were times when employees( including my family members) would get laid offdepending on market conditions etc. There was some job security for my family members, but that was after working many years and buiilding senority. It meant nothing, however, when the whole mill shut down, which has been the case for many mills lately and in the past.

My point being, no one in there right mind would have worked in a lumber mill for less than a decent wage. The mills did have unions, but these jobs would never have attracted workers if they did not. The union was created by market forces. Mill owners know no one will do the job for less than $20 to $25 dollars an hour.

On the flip side, unions in government are artifical. The pay for the job does not reflect the skills required. (Not all jobs, but most).

Years back, the hospital janitors, etc were privatized. This was because there were people willing to do the job for $8hr instead of $30. No skill was required nor any education.

Try getting someone to work in a lumber mill on a green chain for $8 dollars a hour you would have a very tough time. Even with a union, if the mill shuts down, you lose your job. End of story. And you won't attract any workers unless you have union and good benefits do the job.
I bet for many government jobs there would be a line up of people willing to do the jobs for half the wage. Let Market forces and the skills required to do the job dictate compensation.

It is called supply and demand.

 

[akslop]

Paris Hilton went to private school.

carry on.......

 

[mtkb]

Re the differential treatment of big firms and financial issues... those of us that work for ourselves have a joke about that... whenever a lawyer is rumoured to have done something exceedingly scandalous, the remark is "well, its not a trust account issue, so the Law Society wont give a shite"... except of course when it comes to complaints from the public! And the ghost of Campney Murphy would probably disagree that the Law Society doesnt go after big firms lol (used to be a convention of bonus billing clients; one of theirs blew the whistle and it literally brought down what was then a mega-firm)

Private schools also need to be seperated. The Catholic ones usually (when I was there it was a requirement) have practicing Catholics teaching. So, they sacrifice the additional benefits of working in the public system for the wish to work within their faith. At least thats what they told us; I graduated from STM in '96 and have been back exactly thrice since...

On the other hand, I highly doubt the teachers at the elitist schools such as St. George's and South-Whatever in Surrey are sacrificing anything by teaching at a school where the annual tuition approaches the down payment for a starter-home...

What do a sperm and a lawyer have in common?

Each has a one in a million chance of becoming a real human being...

 

[cside17]

On the flip side, unions in government are artifical. The pay for the job does not reflect the skills required. (Not all jobs, but most).

Years back, the hospital janitors, etc were privatized. This was because there were people willing to do the job for $8hr instead of $30. No skill was required nor any education.

.

That statement couldnt be farther from the truth. Janitors never made more than $18.00 an hour. Their esl replacements make $15 an hr now. And can be partly blamed on the huge rise in infections in the hospitals. Se recent story on c-dificile deaths at Burnaby General. Health authorities lost all accountability with the cleaning, and food services when they privitized(sp)

Back on topic. I do support the teachers, but not the TF. They have their heads further up their asses, than HEU reps. And I am a strong union guy.Unions may protect the dog f@@kers, but any decent Manager doing their job right, can get rid of them. They are just too lazy or stupid to go about it the right way.

 

[Dude]

Dude, Southpointe is in Tsawwassen.......Southridge is in South Surrey I believe. It might be a good idea to make sure you're applying to the right one.

Right you are, Sir. We constantly get the two mixed up in discussion around here. The forms here all say Southridge.

Southridge: A private, co-ed school for the 21st century in Surrey

Anyhow, at the dough they are asking, I can find way better ways to spend that money on the kids. I think.

Actually, I don't know anymore.

 

[Dude]

BTW, the yearly tours are fantastic. It's quite the sales job, and by the end of it, you are re-evaluating your personal financial goals and spending, and justifying the tuition.

We'll see how the next two years go; we still yet may jump ship. Right now I'd say it's a good chance that even by grade 10 we're pulling the plug and diving into Southpoint.

I mean Southridge.

 

[bulljive]

Yes Sandman. It's a post with preamble further discussing what Dude posted about. I shared a personal experience, provided some facts that could/should instigate more conversation that could/would enrich everyone's lives through more conversation and debate on TTP.

But thanks for your post that has a lot of use for all of us here today.

There's two major differences between Public Schools and Private Schools in my mind, while maintaining a mandated curriculum.
1. No Unionized teachers force
2. Minimal to no interference from Bureaucracy like School Boards, School Districts, etc.

Following that thought I see one result. Without Unionized Teachers Collectively Bargaining with the Govt and dealing directly with the employer (The School) you see better outcomes in things like Gaps between School Makrs and Standardized Tests like Provincial Exams. You see higher to flawless graduation rates. Without mass interference from Bureaucracy you have better access to info, time with teachers, collaborative meetings with School Board/Trustees/Teachers/Parents/Students all resulting in a near clean sweep of the "Top Schools in BC"

Result: Private Schools > Public Schools (with the small * being that if you live in a neighborhood or catchment area where folks earn 100k+ you have a good chance of being in a good school)

What do you mean by "based on their established criteria" ????

Don't forget that you get one more little soldier drinking the Kool-Aid. I once walked on water, well it was a puddle but never the less.

 

[Captain Shamrock]

Dude, I hear you on the Religious aspect. If you aren't a man or a family of faith I get it. The only Private Schools that are not religious that I'm aware of in the Valley is Southpointe in Delta & Southridge in the Morgan Crossing area of South Surrey, and it's expensive. Southridge in South Surrey says the average students parent's income is $102,900.00 Southpointe says $82,800.00 is their average.

I grew up in Public "inner city" Surrey Schools till grade 9 when I went to a Private School. My 4 year old is already enrolled for next year for Kindergarten at a Surrey Christian Private School...the younger one will be joining her in a few years.

Look at the stats from the Fraser Institute Report Card. The TF always criticizes this report because- surprise surprise- independent schools kick ass on Public Schools with only 2 Public Schools in the Top 20 of the report card- University Hill in Vancouver and Okanagan Mission in Kelowna...both schools have very high earning families living in those neighborhoods. (Both over $100k per/yr)

Compare academic rankings and ratings of British Columbia schools

JBN, it should be noted that Private Schools in particular DON'T include ALL of their students scores..........hmmm I wonder why. The same happens in some of the public schools. Certain kids who 'struggle' in school often will not have their scores included in the FSA's.........take that for what it's worth.

 

[Captain Shamrock]

My oldest daughter (6) goes to Holy Cross in Burnaby, and quite frankly we are extremely pleased with the level of education and the quality of instruction. Faith aside, she is reading at a higher level, learning French, and has greater math skills than kids we know that are at public school also in grade 1. There is constant feedback from her teacher, and progress reports. The detail in the report cards in increadbile. I have lost all faith in the public school system. If you compare the 2, there really is no choice, and if you have the means, I suggest private is the only solution!!!!

What high school did you go to, Bronco?

 

[canuckboy]

Hold the phone. So you have a private school that has kids from affluent families (ie doctors/lawyers who make 100k+) who can afford to send their kids to private school. Those same schools outperform lets say Whalley Ring Road Elementary where mom, and dad (if she's been on Maury and knows who the father is), where the average people go. The class sizes are larger, ESL students abound, and you probably have a couple of challenged kids. lmfao I would certainly hope the private schools do better!

I checked out the Southpoint webside, wow, that's some serious dough. I live in Coquitlam and have thought about private school. I think all the tools are there in the public system, it's our job as parents to make sure we raise strong independent kids that have initiative and take advantage of the opportunities in front of them. I remember my first year in SFU, you guys know when you realize nobody gives a shite if you pass or fail, some private school kids had a big adjustment to that atmosphere.

 

[cside17]

When we moved here from Ireland, I went to a Catholic school here in N Van, St Edmunds. I bailed on the HS, to go to the mighty Sutherland Sabres for soccer sake.

I am proud to say my kids went to St Ed's, and then on to STA, the local Catholic high school. My eldest graduated, and actually received a bursary for $500, at his Grad for being the most accademically(sp)improved grad(d/c- to B+). I spent 5 years bitching at him to smarten up. Just like me,didnt give a crap about school. The faculty stuck with him, and were in constant contact with us. Being a smaller school, helped him huge. He would have been lost at Sutherland,grad class last year over 300 students. STA had 120. I was happy last June that he was at least going to Graduate, to find out he received a bursary, and a special mention at the ceremony was awesome. On his way to being a commercial pilot right now.

Smaller private schools have alot to offer, and probably have an advantage over public schools. Goverment does supplement those schools, but I also pay taxes that go to public schools. My $470(1 kid) per month for STA, although it hurts the $$$ balance, is well worth it when I see my kids, compared to their peers. Havent even mentioned my daughter, gr 11,honour role, want's to be doctor.Dont even want to think what thats going to cost...

Im sure the public sytem is awesome, but classes are over flowing.I have a brother,and a sister in law in N van SD. So I hear it all the time.(I do wind them up about STA btw).

I would rather pay another .01% cent tax for education and healthcare. The 2 things we need the most,right.Than huge gas tax, for transit I dont use.

Toll all bridges, major highways,tunnels a min $. People that use it,pay for it. Im, talking cheap though, every bridge, tunnel. Take the $$ for ,education,health, and infrasrtucture.The teacher strike, is going to be the set point, for what is going to be a long spring/summe r for BC. Government screwed up in my opinion, 4-5 years ago when they alligned all Gov contracts to get past the Olympics. Pulled that off, now they will have to deal with it!

I am a HEU employee, have had 6yrs, 0,0,and 0,retroactive. Plus a -15% roll back when we defied the order to go back to work.Im betting there will no illegal action from BCTF. The teachers strike, sets the bar for the rest of the province. But they will turtle..No offense meant towards any teacher.

But even us gov employees need a basic raise. to keep up with inflation. I make less than now than I did, in 2002, when gas was how much a litre?

 

[Tuna]

Kruger (Scott Paper) terminated 180+ jobs at their New West plant today (union shop). Unfortunately, no job is secure in this day and age.

My wife is a teacher and from my perspective she-we have it extremely good.

I consider off the clock after hours work a fact of life.