Beckham vs Pele

[Scottyshell]

Would be good to find out the diet Maradonna has been on lately (RF?) as he is half the size he was a couple years ago.....Pele all the way....anyone can bend a ball....just not consistently..lol....there's my two bits...

Cheers!

ps: sorry RF...bro made me do it

 

[utah]

Apart from Beckham, England isn't that good.

 

[guru]

No question Pele had, and will always have had more of an impact on "the game" for the USA... The game was virtually unknown in the US even though it had been going for 4 years prior to him... Names like Beckenbauer, Chinaglia, Alberto, Julio Cesar Romero, Roberto Cabañas, all brilliant players, and in my oppinion had more of an impact that Becks could have. In '75 Pelé showed up and the USA finally woke up to the game. The Cosmos weren't in trouble when he signed, they had one bad season out of the 4. They won it in '72. He only played 2 1/2 season, and they won it all in '77 with him. He retired after that, and they won again the next season. The youth game was unknown in most of the US untill he showed up, then camps and leagues started up all over ecery state. How can Beckham compete with that... he can continue, and broaden the scope, but to ever say he initiated it anywhere in the US like Pele did is rediculous. granted, if Pele hadn't been there then, Beckham likely would have that same impact, but it already exists now because of Pele.

As for Cruijff... forget it ... not even close to Pele... he came in the league in '79 long after the mania had swept the USA... he wasn't any impact at all in making the game popular.

Pele
....... Gms..Gls...GPG
1975.....9...5...0.56
1976...24..15...0.63
1977...31..17...0.55 (38 years old)

Cruijff

....... Gms..Gls...GPG
1979...27..16...0.59
1980...27..10...0.37 (33 years old)

The name Pele will never die, will always be remembered by everyone down the road like Gretzky or Howe... Beckham will fade like Beckenbauer or Chinaglia... or Cruijff, most people here don't even know him...

 

[johnnybluenose]

If names like Beckenbauer or Chinaglia or Cruiff fade for you, you are not a Proper Fan or sport period...The Fitba or not.

You apply the reason on Pele and compare him to Howe or Gretzky (Maybe in Canada)

But if you go to many of the broke-down backwaters of the USA and mentioned Gordie Howe they would be looking at you like you had three heads, if anyone knows Gretzky it would be surprising...I know I have travelled to the Carolina's, Florida, and other South Eastern locales quite a lot over the last three years...Anyone down there who knows hockey is either
a) a Snowbird Canadian Ex-pat that retired there
b) someone who got suckered into going to a game and legitimately fell in love with it (perhaps one of the 6,000 that show up in sunrise Florida, or at the Gaylord Entertainment Centre)

Option B is the minority.

There are only a select few people in the workd that are known world wide...If you talk of all time...and that list is limited. Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Roger Federer (maybe except Africa???)

You have to think Globally...People in australia would have no blinking clue who Gretzky is, maybe don't know who Tom Brady is?

Not to distract from the Pele vs Beckham argument...Pele's name will never die...But comparing him to gretzky or Howe is madness, his name is waaaay wider known to people across the world, as are the names of Cruijff, Beckenbauer, Platini, Puskas, Best, Maradona, Hagi, etc...

 

[Regs]

Who do you think young players TODAY recognize more, Beckham or Pele?

I think the obvious choice is Beckham. I don't really see Pele's name too much, if at all, in the media these days. To say most people here don't even know Beckham? I don't get that statement at all.

 

[guru]

If names like Beckenbauer or Chinaglia or Cruiff fade for you, you are not a Proper Fan or sport period...The Fitba or not.

Not what I meant.... I meant fade in history, not by any one person at this point in time (IE: fans of these times) ... Pele will ALWAYS be known as the best, and in the USA will ALWAYS be remembered long after he and the rest of the people who saw him play are dead. His name will be synonymous with Soccer in the States.. I doubt that will be true of any other soccer player ever.

You apply the reason on Pele and compare him to Howe or Gretzky (Maybe in Canada)

I disagree... Gretzky is a name famous around the world... you may be right aboot Howe though... Third world countries know the name Gretzky, Jordan, Pele etc... Gretz likely less than the other two.

But if you go to many of the broke-down backwaters of the USA and mentioned Gordie Howe they would be looking at you like you had three heads, if anyone knows Gretzky it would be surprising...I know I have travelled to the Carolina's, Florida, and other South Eastern locales quite a lot over the last three years...Anyone down there who knows hockey is either
a) a Snowbird Canadian Ex-pat that retired there
b) someone who got suckered into going to a game and legitimately fell in love with it (perhaps one of the 6,000 that show up in sunrise Florida, or at the Gaylord Entertainment Centre)

Ok... we're getting side tracked here with Gretz... I think you exagerate a bit here... if you went to these places and asked them if they've heard of ice hockey and they say yes, my moneys on that they've heard of Gretzky.

Option B is the minority.

There are only a select few people in the workd that are known world wide...If you talk of all time...and that list is limited. Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Roger Federer (maybe except Africa???)

Who ? ?

You have to think Globally...People in australia would have no blinking clue who Gretzky is, maybe don't know who Tom Brady is?

again... Who ? ? and I'm serious on both counts... Of course there are going to be people around the world who haven't heard of Gretzky, and I'm not suggesting he's on the same level as Pele... that wasn't the point... the point here was that Pele will NEVER be forgotten in the USa as the figurehead of soccer, and the one person that brought the game to places it was never heard of there... just as Gretzky did with Hockey. Pioneers in American cities like no other ever. To say backwater Alabamans have never heard of Gretzky may be true, but to the places that now have hockey in remote areas that never had it till he exposed it to them. That name will be remembered more than any other... long past the death of us.

Not to distract from the Pele vs Beckham argument...Pele's name will never die...But comparing him to gretzky or Howe is madness, his name is waaaay wider known to people across the world, as are the names of Cruijff, Beckenbauer, Platini, Puskas, Best, Maradona, Hagi, etc...

Ok... I wasn't comparing the sport itself... Of course hockey is not as famous as soccer world wide.... to begin with, we were talking about the USA market, and who has and will have a bigger effect on the sport of soccer... or it's market... I was merely pointing out another name who brought an outside game to the USA... Not even Jordan was as big in his sport as Gretzky was in his for making the "game" known... Basketball was already as widespread as it could be before Jordan stepped in. Soccer and hockey were relatively unknown, and the names that made the sport famous were Pele and Gretzky... these two will forever be known for that.

 

[guru]

Who do you think young players TODAY recognize more, Beckham or Pele? I think the obvious choice is Beckham. I don't really see Pele's name too much, if at all, in the media these days.

Young players? Beckham for sure, but I think that's misguilding loading that question with "young players"... they know the name because of the media... in 100 years ask people who the best player ever in soccer was/is, and they will still be comparing the "player-of-the-day" to Pele, not Beckham. Just like Orr is compared to every defenceman now... And this isn't to put Orr on the world stage either... it's just specific to the sport. again, the point is, soccer is already well known now in the USA, and it's that way because of pele, not Beckham. Beckham is the famous player de-jour. He may be stirring the enthusiasm, but he's not piquing the interst in the sport like Pele did.

To say most people here don't even know Beckham? I don't get that statement at all.

That's because I was refering to Cruijff with that statement...

 

[Regs]

I don't think you're getting what I'm saying... the young people of today in adulthood will be talking about the player that impacted THEM the most. That won't be Pele.

You are talking about Pele the way you are because he impacted YOU the most or at least your generation in North America.

 

[guru]

I don't think you're getting what I'm saying... the young people of today in adulthood will be talking about the player that impacted THEM the most. That won't be Pele.

You are talking about Pele the way you are because he impacted YOU the most or at least your generation in North America.

I went back to re-read the original question, and maybe I'm still reading it wrong.... or at least interpreting wrong... but to me it sounds like you were asking which of the two will have a greater impact on "the awareness" of soccer (the game itself) to North America...


Original question---It's been a bit of a slow start - playing wise - but David Beckham's impact on soccer in North American so far has been huge in terms of awareness.

How does this compare to when Pele came stateside way back in, what was it, 1976?

When all is said and done, who will have changed the way the game is perceived in North America more?---
So... I guess my opinion is that there was very little awareness of the game in North America (even though the game was already there prior to Pele... just as hockey was prior to Gretzky) however, neither sport was even heard of among the majority of people in the US until both of them were involved in the US.

To say Beckham made the US "aware" of the game is a huge stretch... the general US public (I'd feel safe saying 100% of the population) were already aware of soccer by the time Beckham was even playing professionaly.

If I'm still reading this wrong... then fcuk it.... I'm too stoopud to take part any longer...
I guess Beckham has rekindled an excitement for the game, and maybe made it 'popular' again, but as for awareness of the sport, I'd still say Pele was more important... and as for who'll be remembered in generations to come (even if that's not the question here) I think it will be Pele...

 

[Regs]

Fair enough - I got sidetracked from the original thread question.

There is a small argument to be made that in terms of making Americans aware of soccer, Brain Budd has to be right up there - Superstars.

 

[girth]

Gretzky is a small name worldwide compared to Jordan, Tiger woods and several of the soccer greats.

 

[Tim Berners-Lee]

Beckham Kournikova will have no impact at all long term. These kids and new american fans will soon compare his stats to those who actually do something on the field and start to question his status.
Had he actually been a superstar on the field he would have blown pele away in terms of an individual player have a long term effect on north america. If anything all he did was prove the intelligent fans right, the ones who saw through it all from the begining, the ones who were aware that aside from a free kick against greece to get into the world cup and a goal from his own half for man u( there a bunch of us on ttp who have done this), he didnt do anything to deserve any " one of the greats status" . Pele is the greatest. Beckham is shooting star who's flash is just about burnt out. Pele came before mass player endorsement, youtube, and the americans hosting the world cup. This is an unfair comparison.
In the end I think Pele and Brazil will have more of an impact on North America than Beckham and England.
Americans don't usually aspire to be an athlete who doesnt perform better than half the players in his league, and they don't cheer for a team that doesnt even make a tournament (Euro 2.8).

PELE BY A LONGSHOT

 

[Regs]

I always find it amusing to read posts that rip Beckham as an average player.

Take issue with the media hype but don't deny the skill because of it.

 

[Tim Berners-Lee]

I always find it amusing to read posts that rip Beckham as an average player.

Take issue with the media hype but don't deny the skill because of it.

Regs,

I mean seriously look at the stats for his stay at the Galaxy so far compared to the rest of the league. It's not what you would expect from one of the greats. It's as if their 2 players named named David Beckham.

I agree that him over here will open some eyes to american dads and young soccer players, but it's obvious that without production on the field, his impact will be short lived and probably give soccer a worse name in the end. Everyone hears of the best payer in the world signing in the states so all these new fans take notice and want to see the best, they watch and then leave the sport forever.

 

[Regs]

I've seen a few Galaxy games and he is miles ahead of anyone else on the pitch. Stats don't mean much in assessing talent/skill level when you are a midfielder.

You have to watch to appreciate just like you have to watch a game to appreciate soccer.

 

[girth]

Beckham has gone hollywood and is an aging professional soccer player. Those two combined will make him never live up to expectation in North America.

 

[johnnybluenose]

TBL,
What are you on about? Have you done any research? Looked at any of the stats from this years MLS?

The Galaxy are good this year, and Beckham is in the top 10 for scoring, he actually led the league for a week or two as well.

He is light years ahead of anyone else in the league.

Do you actually watch games or just pop off like most bitter haters?

Yes Beckham has "pretty hair" and funny tattoos, and is married to a spice girl, and so on and so forth...But that doesn't mean he can't play.

I have always mantained that his charisma while being a curse for him in as far as the criticsm he takes from Soccer Die Hards, is good for the game.

If the Henry rumours that abound prove to be true about him coming to Seattle, than I feel he will have the most impact of any player, since he is still technically in his productive years at 30 years old (12 goals for Barca in 30 games this season)

 

[guru]

There is a small argument to be made that in terms of making Americans aware of soccer, Brain Budd has to be right up there - Superstars.

Not far off... There used to be a competition in the '70's called "World Superstars". it was a show to establish which of the pro athletes from each pro sport was the greatest athlete. Budd won it the first 3 years he was in it, and they made a rule called "the Budd Rule", banning anyone from winning it more than 3 times.... He didn't start playing soccer till he was 19... this from Wikkipedia:
From 1977 to 1979, Budd won three straight Canadian Superstars competitions. His victories earned him a spot in the annual World Superstars contests, produced by U.S. broadcasters ABC Sports, which Budd won each time. That prompted the creation of a rule barring anyone from competing in a Superstars competition after their third victory—unofficially called the "Budd rule." Budd believed that ABC wanted him removed from the show because he was not well known to the American TV audience. His total winnings from the Superstars contests were about $170,000.

Here's an interview after the first time he won:

Just For Kicks: Soccer in Canada | CBC Archives

After that, Kyle Rote Jr. won it 3 times, (he played soccer as well)... This should dispell any argument over which athletes are the best ! Obviously baseball....
So don't make fun of Budd ! !

 

[guru]

Gretzky is a small name worldwide compared to Jordan, Tiger woods and several of the soccer greats.

True... the thing with these guys is that they have American television. Gretz it huge in Europe and even Asia, but not as much in S. America or Africa... He's more popular in Austrailia than people think. All this without the USA TV market... The test of a persons popularity is better gauged by how popular he is without all the media hype... impossible to do now, but that makes Pele all the more important in this argument... he was popular without the TV and internet.
It's American TV that makes Jordon and Woods so popular, and we only see American TV here, so you don't get a true picture about what other countries air... Americans make thier athletes larger than life by plastering them all over, it's not the same in other countries. The arogance of Americans automatically dubbing thier athletes the "best in the world" at every turn is enough to make you puke! World Series ! How did they get that title.... it's played only in the USA... ( I don't count TO) And the winner of the Super Bowl are always world champs... What a crock!
Bottom line, Becks is only thier for the money... period. He's huge their now, but it won't be lasting... Americans are all about "what have you done for me lately"...

I have no idea about Beckham's true talent, I haven't seen enough of him.... but what I have seen makes me wonder what all the hype is about... At 33 he's less of a player than Pele was at 38. Although the competition is tougher now. He was runner up twice for "FIFA World Player of the Year", so he had to be right up there when he was younger, '99 & '01.... now I think he's just average.

 

[johnnybluenose]

now I think he's just average.

And yet he still is in the England Mens National Team...(Insert pisstakes here) but seriously, that is an accomplishment that he can get there,

and just prior to the Move to America he was a major reason Real madrid won La Liga just pipping Barca.

Sounds pretty average to me