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Bylaw officer calls cops to kick group off Surrey Field
- Thread starter dezza
- Start date
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- #22
Glad someone mentioned this as I was thinking the same thing... I don't recall seeing a single kid in the video either?
CAP 2 is a field that we pay the city extra to give us exclusivity. We payed for the improvements. So as far as CAP 2 goes, you see anyone on that other than Surrey U. they are violating, unless the City gives them a permit, as they did in the Mayor's Cup. As far as the other fields go, I would like you to answer to an angry group of parents when we have to shut the fields down and can't get the games in. Been there done that. We take care of the fields. We have had 50 + people playing soccer on CAP 2 and we continually encounter football games as well. A huge chunk of our budget is paying for field use. I have no problem with how we regulate it and manage it.
Common sense prevails and we are not a military state. We don't bitch and complain and let many play with no issues, but people need to get educated to what's transpiring in their community before they complain and point fingers. Point is, the Bylaws Officer was doing her job. What is so hard for people to understand? Meanwhile, we can keep building turf fields. Yup. This debate only lends more reason to continue to do so which is sad. But you still need a permit to play on those too. At least we don't worry as much about wear and tear with the turf as we do to who has the time slot.
Cap #2: point taken.
All other fields: Balls, Surrey United is also the largest user, and SHOULD pay more to maintain it! It is still a public facility, and still a public park, and I still question the "exclusivity" you are claiming. What you are saying is that those user groups whom apply for permits, and only those user groups, are allowed use of the public park. The park in question: is it an exclusive Surrey United park, like CAP #2 is? Or is is a situation of floating permits to various user groups, one where sometimes there are no "permits" for certain slots, and thus left open? That's the question here...the assumption that the public does not now have the right to use that park when it is not permitted to a paying group.
The (still to be determined hot) bylaw office was doing her job as she understands it to be. Fair enough. The users in question were being douchebags. That's obvious. Cops- doing their job as well.
That all said, the situation is absurd at best. If indeed there is a situation where this park, which at the time was not permitted for use by any user group, was at the time "closed" to the public, it is indeed ridiculous. Take your soccer club executive goggles off for a minute, and look at the situation without Red colored lenses. For the city to shut down the public that just want to use a field for- gasp!- an informal pick-up soccer game? I don't care if there are kids involved or not, that's just not right on any level. Sure the clubs pays extra user fees- they should. The public does to, those are in the form of taxes.
I still love you, can we still be friends?
All other fields: Balls, Surrey United is also the largest user, and SHOULD pay more to maintain it! It is still a public facility, and still a public park, and I still question the "exclusivity" you are claiming. What you are saying is that those user groups whom apply for permits, and only those user groups, are allowed use of the public park. The park in question: is it an exclusive Surrey United park, like CAP #2 is? Or is is a situation of floating permits to various user groups, one where sometimes there are no "permits" for certain slots, and thus left open? That's the question here...the assumption that the public does not now have the right to use that park when it is not permitted to a paying group.
The (still to be determined hot) bylaw office was doing her job as she understands it to be. Fair enough. The users in question were being douchebags. That's obvious. Cops- doing their job as well.
That all said, the situation is absurd at best. If indeed there is a situation where this park, which at the time was not permitted for use by any user group, was at the time "closed" to the public, it is indeed ridiculous. Take your soccer club executive goggles off for a minute, and look at the situation without Red colored lenses. For the city to shut down the public that just want to use a field for- gasp!- an informal pick-up soccer game? I don't care if there are kids involved or not, that's just not right on any level. Sure the clubs pays extra user fees- they should. The public does to, those are in the form of taxes.
I still love you, can we still be friends?
It could be argued that because they have to waste a lot of their time on things like this Bronco.Better question is why are police services expensive?
TulioMaravilha
Active Member
Playing the devil's advocate here, following this line of reasoning it'd be OK for a millionaire out there to pay the city for improvements and exclusive rights to a field close to his home so that it looks always nice and there's no one other than his kids and guests shooting balls at his house? Sorry, Balls, this is a privatization of a public space and it's just not cool. Happens a lot where I come from and other third world countries but it is not what I expect of a more inclusive society.
I appreciate the amazing job that the execs in Surrey and other clubs do and do grasp all the hurdles you guys go through but talking as someone whose kids played for SU and who has coached for the club, I'm not OK as a matter of principle with banning other citizens from using public spaces when there's no scheduled use by the club. If SU, CMF or whoever needs absolute and total control of their playing fields, go the way clubs in South America and Europe went, transform itself into a social club, charge for membership, BUY real estate and manage their own grounds as they see fit. As long as the model here stays to use public land, parents, coaches, execs and everyone else have to compromise and remember that the space belongs to all.
Just my 2 cents....
Your post is more polite and PC than mine was. Balls, what he said, not I.
Seriously, though...the land costs around here make that a non starter. Heres's what I know from another sport...
Down at Langley BMX, where I was at one time on the exec, the land use was granted to us by the Township, and in that agreement, pretty much all the maintenance, site improvement, from track, to drainage, to buildings, to the fence, fall on us. The Township has provided the utility tie-ins…but it’s essentially classified as a park. A PUBLIC park, actually.
Insurance wise, we have set dates and times that we register w/ our insurance carrier. At these times, we have that exclusive use (much like a soccer club booking field time). During this time we actually must refuse non-association members from using the facility. Again, insurance purposes, and again, very much like soccer, only allowing registered players / refs / coaches on the pitch.
On the facility costs, we sink thousands of dollars into the facility every year, costs paid for by memberships, race day fees, concessions, cash sponsorships, fundraising initiatives, and the very occasional government grant. It is 100% up to the club (the racing “society”) to raise the funds for facility maintenance & improvement.
That all said, when not in use for Langley BMX, the facility becomes a PUBLIC park, and open to any member of the public…even those people that have complete disregard for the track, and ruin it, or vandalize it.
So…this is I guess what I’m getting at and confused by…
Seriously, though...the land costs around here make that a non starter. Heres's what I know from another sport...
Down at Langley BMX, where I was at one time on the exec, the land use was granted to us by the Township, and in that agreement, pretty much all the maintenance, site improvement, from track, to drainage, to buildings, to the fence, fall on us. The Township has provided the utility tie-ins…but it’s essentially classified as a park. A PUBLIC park, actually.
Insurance wise, we have set dates and times that we register w/ our insurance carrier. At these times, we have that exclusive use (much like a soccer club booking field time). During this time we actually must refuse non-association members from using the facility. Again, insurance purposes, and again, very much like soccer, only allowing registered players / refs / coaches on the pitch.
On the facility costs, we sink thousands of dollars into the facility every year, costs paid for by memberships, race day fees, concessions, cash sponsorships, fundraising initiatives, and the very occasional government grant. It is 100% up to the club (the racing “society”) to raise the funds for facility maintenance & improvement.
That all said, when not in use for Langley BMX, the facility becomes a PUBLIC park, and open to any member of the public…even those people that have complete disregard for the track, and ruin it, or vandalize it.
So…this is I guess what I’m getting at and confused by…
Tulio, it is a bit more involved than the simplistic "we pay for the maintenance and improvements", so we get exclusivity. It is a city field and when Surrey United doesn't have a permit for the field, we have no say who or cannot use the field. But when our allocation permits apply, it is SU's field. Every organization has that, not just SU. Now, that still won't change the fact that a user group needs a permit to use a public field. That is not a Surrey United issue. In this society, it is user pays, and the taxes we pay don't cover the costs it seems?
Fact is we need more fields to accommodate our membership. Because of that, we take exception to random user groups using our allocated fields when they don't have a permit and possibly compromising the health of our pitches. These fields have restrictions on the amount of play allowed directly from the Parks Board. They have tasked the clubs to policing it. If we damage them by overuse, and the city closes, guess who pays for the repair?
To conclude my participation, if SU has no allocated times on a certain field, that means someone else does, OR the field has had it's usage maximized and is in rest and recovery mode. Hence, the Bylaws Officer. SU doesn't ban anyone!!!
Your post is more polite and PC than mine was. Balls, what he said, not I.
Seriously, though...the land costs around here make that a non starter. Heres's what I know from another sport...
Down at Langley BMX, where I was at one time on the exec, the land use was granted to us by the Township, and in that agreement, pretty much all the maintenance, site improvement, from track, to drainage, to buildings, to the fence, fall on us. The Township has provided the utility tie-ins…but it’s essentially classified as a park. A PUBLIC park, actually.
Insurance wise, we have set dates and times that we register w/ our insurance carrier. At these times, we have that exclusive use (much like a soccer club booking field time). During this time we actually must refuse non-association members from using the facility. Again, insurance purposes, and again, very much like soccer, only allowing registered players / refs / coaches on the pitch.
On the facility costs, we sink thousands of dollars into the facility every year, costs paid for by memberships, race day fees, concessions, cash sponsorships, fundraising initiatives, and the very occasional government grant. It is 100% up to the club (the racing “society”) to raise the funds for facility maintenance & improvement.
That all said, when not in use for Langley BMX, the facility becomes a PUBLIC park, and open to any member of the public…even those people that have complete disregard for the track, and ruin it, or vandalize it.
So…this is I guess what I’m getting at and confused by…
Dude, the difference is that the City of Surrey does monitor their fields because the fields in question have been maximized in their allocations and need continual maintenance. There are quite a few fields that have not been allocated to clubs/user groups that the public can play on because they are expendable. Brookside Park is a CCB and SFC allocation and it is used by the Fijian Leagues and maybe the USSL as well. So the city monitors that one. The BMX park you speak of is public use because when you are done, there are no other user groups to use it. So the City of Langley sees it as a viable expense and not letting sit idle.
Shite! You all can use whatever field you want, but if it's during my allocated time, I won't call any Bylaws Officer. I'll kick you off myself!!!
Me and my buddy Tom Duncan. And that RCMP Constable and I are tight.
I'm leaning towards to right side of hot, but not sure she'd fancy a ginge mucking up her box. Better luck mucking up Cap 2, and dealing with Duncan and his Balls.
Not accurate, there are a few other user groups besides the club; trainers running private clinics, the township doing their own "learn-to-ride", etc. It's comparable, just smaller scale. I do get your point, however. Essentially, it sounds as though the City has decided to shut-down the parks (soccer fields) whenever there isn't a permit, requiring anyone who tries to use it for anything to have a permit. Even couple of kids going to the park for a quick kick-about (normally involving the mucking-up of boxes, I know...everyone wants to shoot). Which brings us back to square 1 on this debate...stupid or not? I'm still on the side of, "WTF, it's a public park, FFS!", and "Can that By-Law office pay a visit to me, and write me a ticket of some sort?"
I'm sure glad I don't live in Surrey where public parks can only be used by Surrey United FC. I really like this part where Ball Baby refers to the park as ( OUR pitches ). I'm pretty sure he doesn't mean our as in the citizens of Surrey.
No wonder every on there wants to kill each other.
Because of that, we take exception to random user groups using our allocated fields when they don't have a permit and possibly compromising the health of our pitches.
No wonder every on there wants to kill each other.
Because of that, we take exception to random user groups using our allocated fields when they don't have a permit and possibly compromising the health of our pitches.
If you paid for a field at a certain time then it is yours. If nobody has paid for a time, then the field is available to all. Just like lacrosse box, tennis courts, bb courts. If SU wants a private field/ stadium build one and control who and when it is being used. I for one enjoy taking my kids out and playing in the parks and have a right to do it.
Again, simply explaining in reference to grass fields, due to the plethora of user groups in Surrey, chances are that if the fields haven't been allocated (paid for), they are in the rest and recovery mode. Users will be at the whim of a conscientious Bylaws Officer, to conduct Parks Board initiatives and preserve the field. If you are a small family kicking a ball around, they will leave you alone. If your group resembles an organized game, you might be asked to stop. Not SU's rules. Not my rules. I merely explained SU's role in this as far as the fields we are allocated and pay for and tasked to preserve to last the whole season. Don't know how much clearer I can be. If it's our allocated time, we "might" ask you to leave or at least get out of the 18 yard box. Anyone around Cloverdale Athletic Park will see many unauthorized users play freely, even during our allocated times (seldom, because we use our times efficiently) and we don't say a thing because they aren't doing any harm and enjoying themselves.
In Surrey, there is an inventory of allocated soccer fields and inventory of public fields that are not part of the allocation process to all the user groups. Of course, the allocated soccer fields are convenient and luring for soccer enthusiasts. Unlike a lacrosse box, or BB court, tennis courts, GRASS fields require continual maintenance.
Unfortunately, some soccer enthusiasts can also be ignorant citizens, that even when explained nicely of the situation, react in an immature fashion. This thread revealed the reaction from a couple that show where things can go wrong. as illustrated in that video. As clear as I can be in stating a City position that has been around for a couple of decades, I still have to answer to a comment like " I'm sure glad I don't live in Surrey" and "No wonder every on there wants to kill each other".
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