Canucks- Aboriginal Owners?

[Dude]

Did anyone read the article in the Province this morning about the Canucks and GM Place being pursued by an Aboriginal group? Because of their tax-exempt status, they certainly make a good pitch, and a sound argument for profitability. Two thoughts:

1. If the acquisition is made, and it includes the whole package (Orca Bay & NW Sports Entertainment), a well-run business plan could mean a profitable franchise, and hopefully a more competitive payroll for the team. This could also go a long way towards removing any stereotyping of 1st Nations People, if they could run this business successfully (arguable the most visible business in Vancouver).

2. What do we know about this group? We all know the 1st Nations People have all sorts of money, and revenue streams- but what is this group's history in running non-traditional Aboriginal businesses? It would be cool to learn more about their track record.

Also, the report stated that McCaw was only interested- at this point- in selling off one piece of the pie. I would think that if anyone were to buy the Canucks, they'd have to have the whole package (GM Place, etc...) to make money.

 

[Hands of Stone]

Want Pro Sports to Survive, but when do we Draw the Line

From what I read in the Paper this morning, it stated that an Aboriginal Group were interested in buying GM Place, and in turn saving 1.7 million a year in property tax for the building because it would be then on Aboriginal Land.

I do not want to get into a big discussion over Aboriginal Land issues or Aboriginal Tax exemptions here, but, and a BIG BUT, if this group does buy GM place it would be great for the Nucks and thier survival as a Pro sports franchise.

BUT, when do we as TAX payers say enough is enough on Big businesses trying to get out of Tax commitments.

Give the sports teams some lottery relief, so if people want to buy lottery tickets that help support pro sports they can.

But having Aboriginal Groups purchasing land and/or businesses to try and avoid tax is not right, and puts the screws to the hard working Canadians that are paying taxes for the social services that we get in this country.

HOSwillstepofftheSoapBoxnow

 

[Reccos]

I'll second that thought, HOS

Good points HOS! If the property taxes were to be avoided successfully the City of Vancouver property owners would be called upon to make up the shortfall or the City would have to increase user fees on say, hmmm, soccer fields. Simple redistribution of charges. I am not in favour irrespective of how much US cities and counties build arenas and stadiums simply to attract teams.

One of the classic moves in sports had to be Oakland Raiders going to L.A. for all those incentives and then returning to Oakland for more incentives. Only in America. To top it off, the US subsidize their sports franchises significantly and then assess penalties on our lumber because they don't like our stumpage system.

This latest aboriginal idea for the Canucks is pretty dumb and won't fly anywhere. The lottery idea for sports is better. However, what about the lottery for amateur sports or health care?

 

[Dude]

Weather it is fair or not really isn’t up for discussion. Simply put, because of the tax-exempt status the 1st nations have been afforded in this Province and country, the proposal is legit.

That all said, I can’t see how this can or will help the Canucks if purchasing them isn’t part of the package. This “Group” would then be landlords to the Canucks; why would the overhead drop? The Canucks rent at GM place stays the same. We’ve never really been told weather or not GM Place or Winning Sprit are profitable or not. We’ve only been told that the Canucks are loosing money. If GM Place & WS make, say, $20m per year after all their mortgage and other expenses, what does it matter to McCaw if the Canucks lose $10m? It still means that he can pay down the GM Place mortgage with the extra $10m. It all goes into one pocket, and that pocket gets deeper and heavier every year.

Sure the ‘Nucks lose money, but they are by far the biggest draw to the building, which is profitable (assumably). I’m surprised that more of the brilliant “media” members in this town don’t catch on to that and raise that question to Burke when he’s bitching for tax breaks (I know, I know…they're not really “tax breaks”
)

 

[Reccos]

Possible Exit Strategy

If no local owners come forward, and in this market who has that kind of money, then selling GM Place makes it easier to move the team to a US city. I am not saying that is what McCaw is trying to do but it is an option for them.

Selling the building runs totally counter to what teams in the US have been doing for years and that is owning their playing facilities to make money off concessions and parking and other rentals. Is the building truly profitable now that basketball has left? I don't know.

Dude: It is "Whether" not "weather" as in: The Canucks finanancially can't weather the current financial situation in this market. Whether this leads to a sale of GM Place separate from the team is unlikely if this is the purchaser as this group will still have to raise the money and no one is going to let the tax base go.

 

[Dude]

Well done Reccos- you got me on the old “hynonym” technicality. I’ve made 1,500+ posts, and that’s the best you can come up with? Don’t make me start picking apart your sentence structure, and your glaring lack of commas where they are clearly needed. Your misuse- or non-use, as it is- of commas can sometimes make for a very difficult read of your posts.

I can’t see how that building still isn’t making money. They still manage to fill it with “other” dates during the winter- with the addition of Lacrosse, and other events. The lacrosse dates are almost a wash, in terms of attendance (the ravens probably draw 75% of what the Grizz were), but a lot of these concerts and ice shows fill the joint right up. Anyhow, my point is, I find it convenient that the subject has been completely avoided by McCaw and his cronies, and silly that the media hasn’t probed them on it.

Whether or not GM place is truly unprofitable remains to be seen.

 

[One Dart]

I remember reading recently, for the life of me I can't remember where, that while the Canucks as an organization lost money last year, Orca Bay was profitable because of GM Place. Orca Bay made somewhere in the neighbourhood of $15-20 million while the Canucks lost like $3 million. Selling the building wouldn't seem that smart a move if the building is the major reason that your company remains profitable.

 

[Reccos]

Selling the building

As you point out OneDart, selling the building doesn't make sense if it's profitable, unless you knew that no one wanted to buy the team and leave it in Vancouver. Then, with hockey gone, the building wouldn't be profitable. Then, the team could be sold as it is a losing Canadian proposition leaving the new owner of the building, with 40 to 50 dates to try and fill. But, this offer from the aboriginal group, came from them, not Orca Bay. At least, t appears that is how it came up?

Dude: I hadn't realized I lacked commas, however, I will be much, much more dilgent, when I post, in future. Always open to feedback from an intellectual giant, like yourself. By the way, what is a "hynomyn"? Could it be a transgendered nymphomaniac from Surrey?

 

[Dude]

English 12 review...and Orca Bay

Hynomyn is a synonym for homonym. Or is it hymonom? Maybe you can ask one of your 16-year-old wingers and get back to me. Wait, are you saying I'm from Surrey? I live in Cloverdale, not Surrey. Also, I don't think I'm transgendered. Wait, let me check..........................nope- all the right bits are still there.

Does anyone know for sure what exactly McCaw has on the table? Is he trying to sell the whole package, or just the team? I would be really interested in finding this mystery article One Dart refers to.

 

[One Dart]

It seems to me that I may have seen it on TV. Perhaps Headline Sports? It really pisses me off now. I'll see if I can find something about it.