Laffs vs. Nucks Tampering saga

[johnnybluenose]

Anyone who has listened to the TEAM1040 over the last month is well aware of this issue, and now how it has been dealt with (sic) by the league.

For those that haven't, here are the three issues the Canucks had/have with Brian Burke, Ron Wilson, and the MLSE organization in general.

1. Brian Burke at th3 '08 draft was busying himself by telling anyone who would listen (Media and other GM's) that the Sedins were available via trade.

2. Brian Burke is caught in a Leafs TV Broadcast that was then posted to their website's streaming area telling his assembled staff in their war room at the '09 draft that they were not going to continue to persue the top 2 draft picks as the bar was set too high as the Canucks were offering Bieksa, Burrows, and their 22nd overall pick to the Bolts for their 2nd overall pick (Hedman)

3. Ron Wilson goes on Bob McCown's show on the Fan 590 and basically says loudly to all who were listening (unprovoked by the way) that the Sedins were targets of the Leafs. the problem was that the Twins were still under contract for another 24hours to the Nucks, and thus a clear cut case of Tampering.

In 1994 the St Louis Blues GM contacted and held talks with Scott Stevens agent under secrecy, while Scott Stevens was still a NJ Devil. Lou Lamourello got wind of it and the NHL after a 4 year investigation fined the Blues 1.4 Million dollars and took away their 1st rounder and gave it to the Devils, which IIRC turned into Scott Gomez at 27th overall...

This is a situation that had 2 players... but alas Brian Burke worked for/with Bettman in the commissioners office and they are buddy buddy, nevermind that the Leafs think they are the fcuking NHL and as such are the chief cokc-blockers in the Balsillie moving the Dogs to Hamilton fiasco with a "Veto" vote, which the NHL is loathe to admit as it could find them in an Antitrust suit in the USA and a Combines Act suit in Canada.

So at the end of the day, instead of the NHL following some sort of logic and reasoning and following with precedent, they only fine the Leafs $25,000 for the Ron Wilson radio incident and chock the other 2 topics off as poor behaviour that will go unpunished. What a joke. One could think it very possible that the Leafs could have been fined 2.0 Million and face the loss and award to the Nucks of their '10 and '11 first round picks, which if history serves would be top 10 picks. (That's for you Franchise )

The Laffs and more specifically MLSE, are more interested in raping their retarded & indifferent fans of their money than playing nice in the sandbox with their peers and putting a decent team on the Ice/Pitch/Diamond/Court. Perhaps if Brian Burke spent less time tampering and fcuking around on the Canucks they could find a way to win some games...

Another few points worth noting, for people saying why would Burke have an axe to grind...

1. Brian Burke was tied to the Tom Gaglardi/Ryan Beedie attempt to buy the Canucks and involved in the lawsuits against Franceso Acquillini.
2. Brian Burke was really upset over Dave Nonis' firing here.
3. A couple of journos have theorized that Brian Burke is targeting Mike Gillis as Gillis appears to be turning the Canucks in the correct direction, something he and then his protege Dave Nonis, failed to do... Both Burke and Gillis were agents turned GM's. Gillis is having early success, while Burkey seems to be the gravy trainer of all gravy trainers, with each team he leaves having to endure a rebuilding process due to his selling off of draft picks and any prospects for aging and unproven/proven players and usually having shoddy at best goaltending while leaving "scorched earth" behind.

To top it all off nicely the NHL has also directed both organizations to not talk to issue anymore... So Burke and Wilson cannot make excuses, further sullying the NHL's already precarious image... Mike Gillis and Mr.'s Aquillini cannot go public with their outrage over how small the penalty is.

One thing is for sure, the next time Bettman and his cronies look to the Nucks representative at the B.O.G.'s meetings for support on something I don't think it will come so easily...

I honestly cannot see Bettman in that chair for the start of next season. The Coyotes mess is no better off than where it was during last year's playoffs, this tampering stuff has been dealt with very poorly as written and spoken about everywhere in the league save Toronto where the pussycat media will NOT ever post/publish/broadcast anything remotely harsh about Burke or the Leafs, and the Olympics, IIHF, KHL, and NHLPA issues continue to be works in progress...

Good riddance.

 

[The Franchise]

Anyone who has listened to the TEAM1040 over the last month is well aware of this issue, and now how it has been dealt with (sic) by the league.

For those that haven't, here are the three issues the Canucks had/have with Brian Burke, Ron Wilson, and the MLSE organization in general.

1. Brian Burke at th3 '08 draft was busying himself by telling anyone who would listen (Media and other GM's) that the Sedins were available via trade.

2. Brian Burke is caught in a Leafs TV Broadcast that was then posted to their website's streaming area telling his assembled staff in their war room at the '09 draft that they were not going to continue to persue the top 2 draft picks as the bar was set too high as the Canucks were offering Bieksa, Burrows, and their 22nd overall pick to the Bolts for their 2nd overall pick (Hedman)

3. Ron Wilson goes on Bob McCown's show on the Fan 590 and basically says loudly to all who were listening (unprovoked by the way) that the Sedins were targets of the Leafs. the problem was that the Twins were still under contract for another 24hours to the Nucks, and thus a clear cut case of Tampering.

In 1994 the St Louis Blues GM contacted and held talks with Scott Stevens agent under secrecy, while Scott Stevens was still a NJ Devil. Lou Lamourello got wind of it and the NHL after a 4 year investigation fined the Blues 1.4 Million dollars and took away their 1st rounder and gave it to the Devils, which IIRC turned into Scott Gomez at 27th overall...

This is a situation that had 2 players... but alas Brian Burke worked for/with Bettman in the commissioners office and they are buddy buddy, nevermind that the Leafs think they are the fcuking NHL and as such are the chief cokc-blockers in the Balsillie moving the Dogs to Hamilton fiasco with a "Veto" vote, which the NHL is loathe to admit as it could find them in an Antitrust suit in the USA and a Combines Act suit in Canada.

So at the end of the day, instead of the NHL following some sort of logic and reasoning and following with precedent, they only fine the Leafs $25,000 for the Ron Wilson radio incident and chock the other 2 topics off as poor behaviour that will go unpunished. What a joke. One could think it very possible that the Leafs could have been fined 2.0 Million and face the loss and award to the Nucks of their '10 and '11 first round picks, which if history serves would be top 10 picks. (That's for you Franchise )

The Laffs and more specifically MLSE, are more interested in raping their retarded & indifferent fans of their money than playing nice in the sandbox with their peers and putting a decent team on the Ice/Pitch/Diamond/Court. Perhaps if Brian Burke spent less time tampering and fcuking around on the Canucks they could find a way to win some games...

Another few points worth noting, for people saying why would Burke have an axe to grind...

1. Brian Burke was tied to the Tom Gaglardi/Ryan Beedie attempt to buy the Canucks and involved in the lawsuits against Franceso Acquillini.
2. Brian Burke was really upset over Dave Nonis' firing here.
3. A couple of journos have theorized that Brian Burke is targeting Mike Gillis as Gillis appears to be turning the Canucks in the correct direction, something he and then his protege Dave Nonis, failed to do... Both Burke and Gillis were agents turned GM's. Gillis is having early success, while Burkey seems to be the gravy trainer of all gravy trainers, with each team he leaves having to endure a rebuilding process due to his selling off of draft picks and any prospects for aging and unproven/proven players and usually having shoddy at best goaltending while leaving "scorched earth" behind.

To top it all off nicely the NHL has also directed both organizations to not talk to issue anymore... So Burke and Wilson cannot make excuses, further sullying the NHL's already precarious image... Mike Gillis and Mr.'s Aquillini cannot go public with their outrage over how small the penalty is.

One thing is for sure, the next time Bettman and his cronies look to the Nucks representative at the B.O.G.'s meetings for support on something I don't think it will come so easily...

I honestly cannot see Bettman in that chair for the start of next season. The Coyotes mess is no better off than where it was during last year's playoffs, this tampering stuff has been dealt with very poorly as written and spoken about everywhere in the league save Toronto where the pussycat media will NOT ever post/publish/broadcast anything remotely harsh about Burke or the Leafs, and the Olympics, IIHF, KHL, and NHLPA issues continue to be works in progress...

Good riddance.

And yet at the end of the day Burke turned this organization around and made it profittable. He put asses in seats.

FYI Just look at what he has done already in Leaf land.....don't like what he did but he is a great GM.

 

[italian_stallion21]

Yeah, the Leafs are turned around for sure What draft pick would we get anyway? They don't have any for the next couples years cause that retard traded them away for Phil Kessel, who will do absolutely nothing in TO because he doesn't have Marc Savard setting him up with tap-ins.

 

[johnnybluenose]

The upswing in he Canadian dollar and the natural cyclical nature of pro sports made this team profitable, Not Brian Burke by himself. He did rip off the Isles for Bertuzzi. He did trade AlMo for BMo, and others... He did land Naslund IIRC...

Brian Burke spent as much as ownership would allow, and never ultimately got the team a goaltender, and yet drafted terribly, traded away what youth, picks, and prospects we had for guys like Martin Rucinsky and Geoff Sanderson

 

[D13]

i cant say i'm not surprised, count chocula...err... i mean Gary Bettman is a tool, and is only in it to help himself, and the few pals he has.
if you were to swap the circumstances here and the canucks were tampering with leafs players you had better believe the shite would hit the fan.
just one more glaring example of why this idiot needs to go when his contract is up.

 

[Bronco]

the natural cyclical nature of pro sports made this team profitable, Not Brian Burke by himself.

I for the most part sit and read your crap on here and don't give it a second thought, but what the fcuk are you talking about? What natural cyclical nature of pro sports??? The same cyclical nature that has made Vancouver the proud owner of 0 Stanley Cups in 40 years?? The same cyclical nature that has made the Leafs profitable, if not at the same time competitive for their entire existence?? The same cyclical nature that makes the LA Clippers horrendous since day 1? Is this the cyclical nature of which you preach. If you can't think of something intelligent to say, making up shite doesn't help. I suggest you stop employing the Dave Pratt style of journalistic sewage if you want to be taken seriously. Your homer slant is tiring.

Did the Leafs tamper? Probably. Does Burke have a hard on for the Canucks given how everything has unfolded for him and his buddies here? Probably. Is he the best GM this town has ever seen? Definitely.

broncoveryangryforafriday

 

[Regs]

Cheer up Bronco, Croatia won their friendly last night

Go Cancuks Go!

 

[johnnybluenose]

The cyclical nature in that most teams ebb and flow... you can't fcuking read?

You finish last, you get first pick, you finish high you get late picks... It's not rocket science.

Penguins and Washington were both terrible, now they are the toast of the league.

The Leafs haven't been to the Playoffs since '04, and they haven't been to the finals since the Nucks entered the league ffs.

You have to TRY to stay as bad as the Laffs, Clippers, Royals, Detroit Lions, etc etc etc.

And don't give me this David Pratt stuff.

Brian Burke probably was the best GM we ever had, or Pat Quinn. That isn't saying much. We tend to celebrate mediocrity here as the slightest hint of any success becomes a rallying point (ala 94 cup finals)

That being said Brian Burke is a fcuking twat. He is a pompous asshole with a different set of rules for himself than he has for everyone else.

Please point out where I was "Making up shite"

Thanks.

 

[Bronco]

Your entire assertion is assinine. Your contention was that the Canadian dollar and this magical cyclical nature of pro sports attributed to butts being in the seats at GM place. You are either galactically stupid, or are related to Mr Base.

Two things can account for this "phenomenon"

One, the Canucks are the only game in town. Don't even try to argue the fact that the Lions and the Whitecaps are pro sports teams. If you need a part time job in the offseason to make ends meet, you're not a proffesional athlete.

Two, the product is finally bearable. this started with the Quinn/Burke regime. They brought in players that were exciting to watch, and those that have come after them have followed suit.

Cycles have nothing to do with it. If pro sports, and success in such endeavours was predicated on your theory, it would only be a matter of time before the Canucks were sipping out of Lord Stanley's mug.

Either way, you still sound like Dave Pratt. A cnut who thinks he's the foremost on everything. One need only look at your posts for that.

Please go on now and enlighten us on the MNT, or the Whitecaps, or the Holy Grail, or the Theory of Relativity, or whtever else you purport to be an expert on.

Yours truly,

Don Taylor

 

[girth]

Bronco-1 Johnny-0

Either way, you still sound like Dave Pratt. A cnut who thinks he's the foremost on everything. One need only look at your posts for that.

love it!

 

[johnnybluenose]

Ok, let's say that I am wrong, and the Nucks not being profitable until around 02 or so had nothing to do with a .62 cent dollar

Let's say that the dollar had nothing to do with Winnipeg moving to Phoenix

As far as the Canucks, and I really have no idea what Brian Burke's tampering and MLSE committment to failure has to do with the 40 years of mediocrity in Vancouver...

The Nucks were NOT the only thing in town from 70-sometime around the mid 80's.

Throughout the 70's and early 80's the NASL and CFL were big ticket items. People attended en masse. Just look at the numbers and championships.

The Lions were successful, as well as the rest of the CFL.
The Whitecaps were a successfull team in the mid-late 70's into what 80 -82 or so?

Around this time the Nucks struggled to get 11k or more fans into the Colliseum, yet BC Place and Empire Stadium was packed to rafters with fans (before the days of the Caps and Lions papering the place with free tickets to kids etc)

Then BC Place was built and that kept the numbers strong for a year or two for the Caps and Lions. Then the NASL and Whitecaps folded and the 90's saw the CFL go into a spiral, which the league is just coming out of over the last 5 to 6 years, after missing 1, maybe 2, generations of fans... (My generation included)

So no, your point is dead wrong.

The Canucks were a terrible team, being run by the like of Bill Laforge (Made players run in their gear), Tom Watt (who ultimately refused to play Cam Neely and had him traded for damaged goods that had a career year), and so on...

In 88 Quinn became the GM and that is when the turnaround started.

Otto kicked the puck in and the 88 Flames went on to win the cup.

The Nucks were average for a few more years but where right back into it in the early 90's.

Ownership changed hands because Arthur Griffiths bit off more than he could chew and the Canadian Dollar went really really bad. So bad that the NHL had to come out with a special program to help ALL the Canadian teams (Laffs and their money printing press included)

Now the 6 Canadian teams contribute over half the leagues revenues.... explain that to me! How is that not related to a bad devalued currency throughout the 90's into the early 00's!?

You then come on and say the Quinn/Burke regime...

Yo udo realize that there was that little Mike Keenan regime in between right!? , or did you just forget? Burke was Quinn's protege here, then fcuked off to sit under Bettmans desk and service him for a few years, just to come back and take over for Keenan once he had successfully run this Titanic into an iceberg.

In a salarcy capped league (Which the NFL and NHL are) things will be cyclical... however the Laffs haven't made the Playoffs yet in this "New NHL"

There is no magic to it.. You finsih bad, you get good picks, you develop your picks and they tunr into players who can help contribute to a winning team...

The Laffs have been average at best because they do the really retarded thing year after year... strip down the future for average players for the now, just narrowly missing the dance every spring, but never being bad enough to get a top pick.

~Leafs 9th in the East forever

As far as the MNT (Lack of games played together in Jack Warners Mickey mouse Concacaf federation is to blame)
The Whitecaps (Are the best and most successfull North American proper football club and best team not in the MLS, for the last decade)
The Holy Grail probably doesn't exist, it is probably a biblical ananlogy, or just a cup that Jesus and his mates drank from, then Judas probably had a few too many, slipped and dropped it and it broke.
Theory of relativity is basic physics man. Everyone knows that.

~ExpertOnEverything, or maybe just handy at research to back up opinions, something most people and you, Bronco, lack.

 

[Bronco]

Thank you for the diatribe. You've proven my point yet again, in spades no less. I didn't once say you were wrong about the Canadian dollar sparky. I questioned your idiotic view that professional sports is cyclical in nature. It is not. To assume it is, assumes that good management, luck, opportunism, have nothing to do with it.

For the record, the CFL is a bush league, always will be, and JBN is the Cliff Claven of TTP, always will be.

 

[johnnybluenose]

Sorry, I forgot to include my facts...

Empire had an actual capacity of: 32375
BC Place: 60, 342

Caps/86'ers all time attendance with notes: All time attendance stats
Lions: http://www.bclions.com/uploads/assets/BC/pdfs/History/Coaches___Attendance.pdf

It's worth pointing out that from 70-82 (Before BC Place was finished) the Lions ran about nearly 80% or higher capacity with average of 25k or so in a 32k stadium.. and then had an average of about 40k out of 60k from 83 or so till 90...

 

[johnnybluenose]

How are Pro Sports not cyclical in nature!?

Of course good management, opportunism, luck etc have lots to do with it...

The Nucks were wretched for years until Quinn came around in 88. Then they got unlucky with Otto kicking a puck in, then the Flames go on to win a cup after Nucks pushed them to the brink (Smyl's breakaway, ouch ) Then bad poor luck struck again with Bure going out of the 95-96 season at the start of the season. Then Bad management with Keenan, then Burke cam along, did a good job. Nucks get unlucky with Bertuzzi hammering Moore from behind and still push the Flames to a game 7, then the flames make a run to the Cup finals just to lose to the Bolts...

How do you suppose the Bolts got to the cup finals? Cyclical nature perhaps? Being shite for so long, accumulating assets via drafts, trading soem assetts for players while grooimg some into players, and then bang... Success... Hmmmmmmm.... Nothing cyclical there...

 

[girth]

Johnny with the go ahead 3-2

 

[Bronco]

Apologies, your examples are iron clad. Now go and finish your postal route.

 

[Polska]

Johnny can u get me the percentage of how many of the homeless people in metro vancouver come from toronto?

 

[trece verde]

...only the ones with questionable Croat backgrounds...

wind, wind, wind, wind.....

Carry on carrying on...

 

[Kevin Hector]

The upswing in he Canadian dollar and the natural cyclical nature of pro sports made this team profitable, Not Brian Burke by himself. He did rip off the Isles for Bertuzzi. He did trade AlMo for BMo, and others... He did land Naslund IIRC...

Brian Burke spent as much as ownership would allow, and never ultimately got the team a goaltender, and yet drafted terribly, traded away what youth, picks, and prospects we had for guys like Martin Rucinsky and Geoff Sanderson

It was Iron Mike that got Bertuzzi and McCabe and a draft pick (Jarko Ruuttu) from the islanders for some Trevor Linden guy.

 

[johnnybluenose]

You're right Hector... It was Keenan that pulled off that trade.

Burke biggest trade by a land slide was McCabe for the 3rd pick to ensure the Nucks could draft both the twins... who were easily the class of that draft considering the #1 pick, Patrick Stefan is long gone, and Tim Connolly and Martin Havlat are the only other players in that 1st round of that draft to have done anything. (That was the draft that Zetterberg was drafted in the 7th round

1999 NHL Entry Draft Picks at hockeydb.com