New Youth HPL league

[bettermirror]

Well, here’s the obvious flaw, as Captain has alluded to: if you price position this thing so that only a certain percentage can afford or are willing to afford to have their kids involved, it will backfire.

The pool of available talent will be lower, not higher. The level of competition for spots will be lower, not higher.

Bottom line is this: if the BC Soccer, or Canadian Soccer, or whoever is overseeing this thing really wants the concept to succeed, it has to be elite focused while not costing the elite one single dime, all while having the investment in the facilities, and coaches. There are several business models combining private / public / philanthropic funding that can be applied here to make it happen. You set it up in such a way as Junior hockey has, where the expectations are placed on the kid to maintain a high standard in the sport, in school, and in the community (code of conduct), and you cut them loose if they fall short in any one of those areas.

Something like this should be the highest goal for a youth player. Design the model so that they have to take whatever measures possible to make the program. This way, the possibility exists that you won’t weed out the diamonds in the rough, or the talent w/ no financial backing.

I wouldn’t even bring this to fruition w/ out the proper model in place, because right off the bat they’ll be going backwards by the simple laws of supply / demand.

Great post, dude.

Contact BCSA and make it happen.

 

[bettermirror]

I can see a few clubs thinking of breaking away. It will be interesting to see how this all goes down and the decisions that get made. I for one will be extremely disappointed in my club and BC soccer if choices are made for the few kids involved in HPL. Exceptions should not be made for the minority, make the HPL bend over for them not the other way around.

Krutov - Chilliwack won't have an HPL team so it won't really affect Chilliwack FC at all. Certainly no more than currently with the more "eager" moving to Abby or other clubs to play metro anyway.

HPL will benefit the "lowly" gold/rep teams if those clubs strive to improve themselves and meet the HPL standards and form an HPL 2nd division etc...Might even be that an HPL 2nd division could be run in the current format of fall-winter-spring???

Also - HPL is not a money-grab. Other than some coaches who get paid for their time (hoping it is rare a parent has a kid on any of the teams they coach, but it will happen) and maybe an increase in payments to ref's who will make money?? I haven't heard of any SYL clubs making money. I am more than happy to be proven wrong.

 

[djones]

This is not unusual for top leagues in North America.

Just to keep it in perspective... and this isn't for year-round hockey...

Is the cost keeping kids out of minor hockey? Absolutely, players and parents say

Remember, the cost for players in the USSDA (top level in the US) is around $5-6000 a year WITH sponsorship unless you are one of the lucky ones who make a MLS Academy team who have to pay players way under MLS rules. One of the reason's why some MLS teams have balked at joining USSDA.

Comments like waiting for a sugar daddy to come along to fund everything is getting ridiculous. If it was so readily available, don't you think we would be doing it by now? Seriously?

Major Junior Hockey at the highest levels does pay for it's players but doesn't always make money either. There are tons and tons of teams that have come and gone since it started back in 1969. Just ask Punch MacLean where the New West Bruins went.

By creating a top level national league equivalent to major junior hockey may one day bring in club owners like the Vancouver Giants owner who will help pay some of the cost or attract sponsorship. The problem is, that the Giants owner only pays for one team, not 10 (5 boys and 5 girls).

 

[bettermirror]

Pitt Meadows Soccer Club / Golden Ears United Soccer Club

Abby may have some competition here now with Pitt Meadows & GEU teaming up as I think they could be considered as being able to service the same 'catchment' area.

Not a chance Regs. The driving distance is too great. Also, they service different districts - North Fraser/Alouette and Eastern Fraser Valley respectively.

Metro-Ford have submitted their application.

 

[Regs]

Driving distance from where? Other than Chilliwack, I don't see it being an issue for them.

 

[Dude]

Great post, dude.

Contact BCSA and make it happen.

Why would I do that? I don't have a son playing the game. I do that sort of stuff for my son's sport (BMX Racing), and it consumes all my free time.

 

[Dude]

Jonesey- you were the first to compare it to the Junior system (Major Junior or BCJ, both leagues fund players). Like I said, if you truly want the elites to be able to train at a professional level, funding has to be in place. Otherwise, simply look at all the high performance ski and snowboard camps at Whistler during the spring and summer, because that's essentially what you'll have.

 

[bettermirror]

How many families do you know want to drive 45 minutes both ways after work 3 or 4 times a week? Certainly isn't happening now!

 

[bettermirror]

Why would I do that? I don't have a son playing the game. I do that sort of stuff for my son's sport (BMX Racing), and it consumes all my free time.

That's my point. If you don't care, or want to help make change, then don't complain.

 

[Dude]

I'm not complaining. This is a discussion forum, you twit.

Have you been snuggling up to Cloughie lately? He has the same holier-than-thou self image. He's the FVSL administrator, you know. Hugely important and self sacrificing.

 

[bettermirror]

I'm not complaining. This is a discussion forum, you twit.
QUOTE]


Aren't you a peach?

My point is you sound like someone who doesn't vote but hates the Mayor and demands change.

 

[Dude]

Are you feeling threatened or something? No, I'm a soccer player on a soccer forum discussing a soccer topic. Yes I vote, but that's irrelevant.

Read my posts smart guy: they do not demand anything. They merely point out the flaws. Your proposed elite league had some benefits and serious flaws. If you structure an elite program in such a way that excludes most of the elite, why do it?

You're the smart guy, you answer that question for me.

 

[Gaffa]

At some stage there will have to be some sort of financial/sponsor support. At the end of the day there will be a monatary breaking point. I think that families will try it for a year and review at the end of season. This is why it has to be a top quality program from the word go. If I were putting my kids in the program the money would have to be drawn from the other activities they would no longer have time to do.(volleyball, basketball, rugby costs etc) If this is to be a 10 month a year program at the highest level then they wont have time to play these other sports. In truth this is the type of kid that has to be in the program. %100 commitment. No other sports, school or community.

If I add up all the costs of each of my kids sports/extra curricula for a year, it's not far off the 2/3 grand mark

 

[Bifficus]

You are getting off cheaply then. The problem as I see it, is that they are trying to do this all too quickly. Vote is on the 22 of January to accept it or not. By the end of January you have to have the clubs in place, with also having to pick coaches (some probably already have). Then sometime in February you have to select the 550 or so kids (both girls and boys). March you start playing. Too much to do in to little time.
If you are going to go ahead with this (I am assuming that this will happen). You better have a plan in place and be able to explain it to everyone. I have yet to see one which makes any sense. You also better explain to the districts/parents/kids as well. As far as I know no one has ever tried to explain this to them. Other then on forums like this.
No concrete plans=disaster.

 

[djones]

Jonesey- you were the first to compare it to the Junior system (Major Junior or BCJ, both leagues fund players). Like I said, if you truly want the elites to be able to train at a professional level, funding has to be in place. Otherwise, simply look at all the high performance ski and snowboard camps at Whistler during the spring and summer, because that's essentially what you'll have.

Ya, your right, I did but only if it was done the way I laid out in my Soccer Utopia, at or after the U16 age group. At that point, we could run it like junior hockey with one or two age groups. That way there is less teams and more opportunity for an individual or group to come in and sponsor a team. If there was a national league, I'm sure you would/could attract more sponsorship and people willing to be stakeholders in teams/clubs. Successful alumni's of clubs?

As it is now, you would have to compare this to Major Midget in hockey and not Major Junior. Top level for players that don't get selected to Major Junior or BCJHL (residency and eventually Whitecaps Academy teams = major junior hockey), more teams and funded by parents pockets.

It would be ideal if they started this at the older age groups as a trial run and then slowly introduced it at the lower age groups the year after. I doubt that will happen.

On a side note, with the Whitecaps involvement in the HPL, could players that are developed from this league be claimed as homegrown players and be taken out of the MLS draft IF they were good enough at university? There is a fight going on right now in the MLS draft where Philadelphia Union is claiming that a player was developed at a 'partner' club (Reading AC in Philly) and therefor is Union property and should be taken out of the draft.

 

[Regs]

What exactly is the Whitecaps involvement in this right now? Is it in the proposal documents? I quickly read one of them yesterday and it wasn't clear what exact role they were to play in all of this?

Hopefully they have nothing to do with payment processing

 

[bettermirror]

Are you feeling threatened or something? No, I'm a soccer player on a soccer forum discussing a soccer topic. Yes I vote, but that's irrelevant.

Read my posts smart guy: they do not demand anything. They merely point out the flaws. Your proposed elite league had some benefits and serious flaws. If you structure an elite program in such a way that excludes most of the elite, why do it?

You're the smart guy, you answer that question for me.

OK? Yer an interesting fella.


It won't exclude "most of the elite." Most of the "elite" pay that much for Metro and SYL already anyway. That comment has already been made by others. But, like you, I propose Whitecaps should be funding a portion of the league especially if they expect/want players directly from it.

 

[bettermirror]

You are getting off cheaply then. The problem as I see it, is that they are trying to do this all too quickly. Vote is on the 22 of January to accept it or not. By the end of January you have to have the clubs in place, with also having to pick coaches (some probably already have). Then sometime in February you have to select the 550 or so kids (both girls and boys). March you start playing. Too much to do in to little time.
If you are going to go ahead with this (I am assuming that this will happen). You better have a plan in place and be able to explain it to everyone. I have yet to see one which makes any sense. You also better explain to the districts/parents/kids as well. As far as I know no one has ever tried to explain this to them. Other then on forums like this.
No concrete plans=disaster.

The league isn't starting in March. Tryouts probably will. HPL is playing SYL this summer, and that league doesn't start until May.

 

[Bifficus]

So that would mean that the second tier players (for lack of a better word) will not be selected until March or so. These Select teams have been picked usually around this time (at least in Richmond). This is going to cause more problems for the district levels.
Also just read that each HPL Franchise can charge whatever they deem necessary (BC soccer website FAQ for HPL). I was told that BC soccer were running and the fees were to go directly to them, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
Still way to many questions and as others have said no set plan.

 

[Dude]

OK? Yer an interesting fella.


It won't exclude "most of the elite." Most of the "elite" pay that much for Metro and SYL already anyway. That comment has already been made by others. But, like you, I propose Whitecaps should be funding a portion of the league especially if they expect/want players directly from it.

OK? And now you agree with me? Are we both confused here?

Anyhow...it's interesting that people like you chime in on discussion forums, look for opinions, but when it comes to others pointing out the flaws in a plan you endorse, you take offense to it rather than opening it up for further debate.

What it sounds like now is a different, potentially more expensive option for the same level of play and coaching the best players are getting now anyhow. I guess redundancy is the key to improvement. Do what is already being done, paint it a new color, and call it new.