New Youth HPL league

[bettermirror]

Just glancing at the winners list on the BMO Championships Site (which by the way has a background photo of a bunch of kids playing in a snow storm! ya, great advertisement). Keeping in mind the site doesn't show 2nd and 3rd place finished which are also good.

Boys
u18 winners since 1984 - 7. In last 10 years - 4. 40% not bad at all! 2 in the last 8.
u16 winners since 1984 - 10. In last 10 years - 4. (don't know who won the 2010)
u14 winners since 1984 - 4. In last 10 years - 1. (9 years ago - don't know who won 2010)

Girls
u14 since 1984 - 7. Last 10 years? 2 (2010?)
u16 since 1984 - 5. Last 10 years? 0 (2010?)
u18 since 1984 - 4. Last 10 years? 1 (2010?)

Boys side has done alright - how many of those kids moved on to national team, university, pro careers etc? We all know the numbers in that regard aren't good enough.

 

[Regs]

My only point was lumping in SENIOR side performance which hasn't been poor IMO aside from not placing 1st enough.

 

[bettermirror]

OK. You are right. HPL isn't bothered with Senior national final performances, I'd imagine. Just producing better provincial, national, and more university players. Ya, I'll concede your point. Maybe, just maybe, a bi-product of the HPL teams needing to have senior programs will benefit those teams at senior nationals more often.

 

[knaacks]

How can 7 straight trips to the Nationals, 1 gold , 3 silver and 3 bronze not be considered success for Surrey United ladies. Get your facts straight before you come out with statements like you did......

 

[bettermirror]

Like I said, there are exceptions. But that Surrey Utd girls team is not the exception, they are the rule on the girls side. Full props to them! No need to be so defensive. Please read the posts in full in the future. I had indicated I agreed with Regs already. Wow......

Maybe recognize the talk has been mostly on the boys side here.....Moving on.

 

[Regs]

Jesus, not condescending at all, LOL!

But thanks for conceding my point, though I think you still didn't get it

 

[bettermirror]

Ya, I think the internet has successfully screwed-up the intention of the discussion we've just had here. I do agree with you and certainly do concede the point. I get what you are saying.

 

[Mr Base]

Surrey girls have an outstanding program. They have showed very well in last five years. I second Knaacks remark. And they look better than Clarky. What the heck is wrong with that. Mirror you are starting a War you can not win. Regs is also from that part of town. They will gang up on you. Did you hear who gut in HPL for 2012 season. Is it 8 or are the going with 10 clubs.

 

[bettermirror]

Um, Base, can you read my post just above and try responding again? I will spell it out for you. I was agreeing with them. I never said Surrey United's program was bad.

 

[mtkb]

I thought I had clarified my point, MTKB. I guess not. My point is not to judge youth clubs on if they are producing professional players. I actually think they could be fairly judged on how many go on to get university soccer scholarships. USA or in Canada, for what the Canuck ones are worth.

My point is BC as a province has not been developing national team players well lately at all, starting with our BC Provincial Teams, and poor showings at the National Club finals as well on both youth and senior levels. Recognizing there are exceptional teams from time to time.

So wait, you recognize HPL is intended to improve the provincial and national teams in the long run? But you think changing grassroots is NOT the way to do this? What do you suggest as an alternative to HPL to address this?

Grassroots needs to be improved... at the younger ages... everyone likes to whine about "how they do it in Europe"... well, how they do it in Europe is put their best youth coaches at the youngest ages... We need to focus the attention of BC's best coaches on the 8-12 age group, and on every kid - not just a subset of the kids who have been dribbling since they were born, and present as the "best players" at that point in time...

Grassroots at the HPL age groups does not, I would argue, need an overhaul. We have plenty of technically proficient coaches working at that level already... Could it be improved? Always... And I'm all for that... but blowing up the Select league and Y leagues is unnecessary...

Instead, get rid of the damn provincial teams and NTC... Its bloody overkill and its actually counterproductive... NTC players currently train three times a week on top of their select league commitments... many of our NTC players have picked up overtraining injuries... kids shouldnt really be out with hip flexors, for instance - thats an overtraining injury.

By the end of the season the NTC players are useless because they have no gas in the tank... We had three on our u16B team last year and watching their first round cup game (which they lost in the 11th round of penalties!), they were shadows of the players I knew they had been the past (I was their assistant coach at u14 the year previous).

This year, one of our best players was recently invited out to NTC. He also plays basketball, and of course trains with us. I kid you not, as soon as he started with NTC, his performance took a noticeable nosedive... now he's complaining that his legs are hurting...

The staff at BC could give a shite about us... They could give a shite about overtraining... They are happy to run our best players into the ground in the hopes that it might magically produce someone for a national team... Its almost as if they're saying "what we're doing isnt working, so lets do it ten times as often and see if that works"... thats pretty close to the definition of insanity...

All of which is to say, in answer to your question... get rid of provincial team / NTC operation, and you'd actually see an improvement in the u14-u18 grassroots without ever having to go to HPL...

I do like the staggering of HPL with the provincial team operations - not as good as getting rid of them but better than the status quo for sure... and I do like the idea of getting rid of weak sister clubs, although I think the necessary regionalization of the league is going to limit the ability to weed out weak clubs... By far my biggest concern is that HPL will not attract the best players, where as clubs in the select league had the ability to keep fees down and attract whatever talent existed...

 

[mtkb]

While we're on the subject of national championships, let's differentiate between provincial team nationals and club team nationals... I dont have the numbers at the ready, but my recollection is that our club teams have done far better nationally than our provincial teams have... which, if true, I would argue supports my thesis above...

 

[bettermirror]

Thanks MTKB.

The list I produced a bit ago in this thread was regarding the youth club nationals, not the provincial teams. It was not updated for 2010 yet. Anyway, speaking of developing professionals in BC more and more...

Alexander Marrello

Bruce Constantineau of The Vancouver Sun wrote a great piece on Alexander Marrello, a 22 year old Midfielder from Burnaby who has made the jump to play in the Dutch 2nd Division after a successful career at the University of Buffalo. He will be playing with BV Veendam for the rest of their season.

Great for him and potentially for Canada. Well done!

 

[knaacks]

Sorry Bettermirror, I get a bit backed up when people don't realize what our ladies have done as a success. We have taken with us to Nationals, 2 or3 youth players most every trip. They have done very well for our club and they have gone on to be highly successful, even coming back to play with our current team. I hope that the future crop of hpl girls will do the same and bolster our senior programs for years to come. Thats what the concept of cradle to grave is all about. Again my apologies for going over the top........

 

[mtkb]

Thanks MTKB.

The list I produced a bit ago in this thread was regarding the youth club nationals, not the provincial teams. It was not updated for 2010 yet. Anyway, speaking of developing professionals in BC more and more...

Alexander Marrello

Bruce Constantineau of The Vancouver Sun wrote a great piece on Alexander Marrello, a 22 year old Midfielder from Burnaby who has made the jump to play in the Dutch 2nd Division after a successful career at the University of Buffalo. He will be playing with BV Veendam for the rest of their season.

Great for him and potentially for Canada. Well done!

Bruce should know, his son Justin was the goalie on Mimmo's Wesburn team that won A Cup before becoming the Burnaby Royals at the select level!

 

[djones]

Grassroots needs to be improved... at the younger ages... everyone likes to whine about "how they do it in Europe"... well, how they do it in Europe is put their best youth coaches at the youngest ages... We need to focus the attention of BC's best coaches on the 8-12 age group, and on every kid - not just a subset of the kids who have been dribbling since they were born, and present as the "best players" at that point in time...

Grassroots at the HPL age groups does not, I would argue, need an overhaul. We have plenty of technically proficient coaches working at that level already... Could it be improved? Always... And I'm all for that... but blowing up the Select league and Y leagues is unnecessary...

Instead, get rid of the damn provincial teams and NTC... Its bloody overkill and its actually counterproductive... NTC players currently train three times a week on top of their select league commitments... many of our NTC players have picked up overtraining injuries... kids shouldnt really be out with hip flexors, for instance - thats an overtraining injury.

By the end of the season the NTC players are useless because they have no gas in the tank... We had three on our u16B team last year and watching their first round cup game (which they lost in the 11th round of penalties!), they were shadows of the players I knew they had been the past (I was their assistant coach at u14 the year previous).

This year, one of our best players was recently invited out to NTC. He also plays basketball, and of course trains with us. I kid you not, as soon as he started with NTC, his performance took a noticeable nosedive... now he's complaining that his legs are hurting...

The staff at BC could give a shite about us... They could give a shite about overtraining... They are happy to run our best players into the ground in the hopes that it might magically produce someone for a national team... Its almost as if they're saying "what we're doing isnt working, so lets do it ten times as often and see if that works"... thats pretty close to the definition of insanity...

All of which is to say, in answer to your question... get rid of provincial team / NTC operation, and you'd actually see an improvement in the u14-u18 grassroots without ever having to go to HPL...

I do like the staggering of HPL with the provincial team operations - not as good as getting rid of them but better than the status quo for sure... and I do like the idea of getting rid of weak sister clubs, although I think the necessary regionalization of the league is going to limit the ability to weed out weak clubs... By far my biggest concern is that HPL will not attract the best players, where as clubs in the select league had the ability to keep fees down and attract whatever talent existed...

Funny you would say this about the NTC/Provincial Program. They preach about 'periodization', and the fact that we know nothing about it, like they are all knowing, and last week we had some of our players play close to 3 complete games in 3 days and come back to us hurt. We're being sold on a working relationship with these guys because of their knowledge of 'periodization' and they are running our players to exhaustion and injury during our season?

No thanks! I'll pass on my recommendation of these programs as well.

 

[bettermirror]

Haha, don't get me started on the provincial (and NTC, I guess) "Training" programs this time of year! Loads of my kids have come back hurt from those too...muscular injuries always.

Well, hopefully with the HPL calendar it will allow the provincial and NTC programs to apply appropriate rest and all the rest of it during their "windows" when HPL shuts down. ....

 

[cassis]

Funny you would say this about the NTC/Provincial Program. They preach about 'periodization', and the fact that we know nothing about it, like they are all knowing, and last week we had some of our players play close to 3 complete games in 3 days and come back to us hurt. We're being sold on a working relationship with these guys because of their knowledge of 'periodization' and they are running our players to exhaustion and injury during our season?

No thanks! I'll pass on my recommendation of these programs as well.

And weren't we just talking about prohibitive costs (for provincials anyway)? I second this sentiment...

 

[bettermirror]

I hear ya DJ!!!! And yes, Cassis....it's expensive! Not only to join but the gas/diesel back and forth. At least with HPL the tryout process is eliminated for HPL players. I'd guess players from other leagues will have to endure the same process as always? What is the current cost of playing in the provincial team?

 

[cassis]

$4000. (I know one parent who will likely have two kids going in both HPL and Provincials in a couple of years - $13,000, yikes!)

Btw, do the provincial teams not play in the Nutrilite All Stars Tournament?

 

[bettermirror]

$4000. (I know one parent who will likely have two kids going in both HPL and Provincials in a couple of years - $13,000, yikes!)

Btw, do the provincial teams not play in the Nutrilite All Stars Tournament?

Nutrilite - yes, but the stats I was more referring to were the club nationals (the BMO ones) because the HPL will more directly affect those I'd imagine - unless the cost of joining the provincial team goes down it will still be just the kids that can afford it. Which some can argue HPL will be too, I guess.

$13,000! Yikes indeed.