Racism in (BC) Soccer?

[Captain Shamrock]

Luc, i am taken aback that you have read anything but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt....If you have read something on sikhism then you will know that tolerance for all is preached , not just for sikhs but for all human kind....equality for all, no matter what they look like, or how they manifest themselves on earth.....so why should I mold into anything, why can't I be different, or are you saying that it is more tolerant to force me to appear more acceptable to a western society ??? That would be the exact opposite of tolerant would it not ?? Do you think they call that intolerance, Luc ???

Yes Luc you know diddly squat and you can try to cut and paste info from the net all you want.....eg. posting the years Guru Nanak was alive is not required in this research project nor relevant to your post.......Oh and I love the Indira comment .....that is another insensitive remark that some others may not get but I do. I am not going to touch that one.

And don't turn this thing into a religious debate, and turn it so that Sikhs have to justify their existence, because we don't. Nor do I have to mold or accept someones opinion of my appearance.

Very well said, Big T. There is nothing worse than people claiming to know something about a situation that they clearly don't understand. I've had to deal with that quite a bit over the years.


TAL

Hail Hail

 

[Captain Shamrock]

How can BCSA advise the referees not to allow any headgear and then when shite hits the fan through the media, BCSA takes the chicken shite way out by denying any wrongdoing???

Spot on. The BCSA is nothing more than money making machine now. From its provincial teams to their referee/coaching clinics, it's all about money now. Although, if I was the referee in charge, I would have let the boy play. I would rather deal with the BCSA myself than have the media do it. It is an easy way for the BCSA to blame the refs here and that wouldn't surprise me one bit.


This is just a bad situation all around and it is only going to get worse before it improves.

 

[Referee]

There are 17 written FIFA Laws. But in the refereeing world, there is an unwritten Law. It is called "Law 18 - Common Sense".

The problem with this is the referee in the Calgary game was an 18 year old referee that was getting assessed by BC Soccer. If you are getting assessed as a referee, you have to apply the full FIFA Laws, which unfortunately means, the removal of all headgear. This game was abandoned by the referee because of the Williams Lake players, coaches and spectators threatening to kill the referee and the BCSA assessor.

The sad part of all this is that the referee for the Williams Lake game was the assessor of the previous Calgary game.

I am not saying what happened to the Sikh players was right, but the referees were instructed to enforce this Law along all the new Laws that is in place for the 2005-06 season. This includes the removal of all jewelry (watches, earrings, bracelets, Livestrong bands, friendship bracelets and all visible piercings). The only exception is MedicAlert bracklets or similar. This is what the BC Soccer Association is telling all soccer referees for the 2005-06 season. As a registered BCSA referee, you have to do as you are told or you were be reprimanded by the Referee Development Committee of BCSA.

This is a no win situation for the referees or the players.

Rules can be changed but Laws have to be enforced. Soccer in the world is governed under international FIFA Laws.

 

[the manager]

What a predicament for the BCSA, Refs and players alike to be in. I agree with the majority of sentiment posted here that suggests the ref shouldn't have made an issue about it and let the kid play. With a hot topic and headline such as this, it's no wonder this story has fueled into a big fire, sure to cast embarrasment onto some. The BCSA should step up to the plate and correct this misunderstanding.


I've seen many in pro footbal wearing shoestrings around their heads to keep their hair back, does this new ruling suggest they are in violation also? Our country is a multicultural one that celebrates diversity, surely wiser judgement should rule that the head dress worn by Sikh players, as long as it is safe, should be permitted.
I can think of better things to ban...like bright coloured soccer boots...



Comments from some in this thread suggesting that the Sikh religion should "evolve" and "get with the times" are obtuse and insensative. Although many Sikh's have chosen a moderate path and have become canadianized, the religious orthodoxy others are trying to preserve has deep historical and cultural relevance to them and their identity as a people. As Canadians, we should respect this.

On the other hand, teams that may have been offended in this should take the high road and approach the situation with maturity. Threataning to harm people makes the situation worse.

regards,

manager

 

[Coach Oldie]

Sad day for soccer as this has been blown out of shape big time & with little understanding of where the policy is coming from.

To add insult to all that has gone on the spin doctors are at play in their usual fashion at BCSA. Thus looking stupid as ever & trying to do their own thing once again rather than follow the lead of CSA where the policy comes from that the ref's have been instructed to follow via BCSA the provincial authority.

Sadly a young ref was doing what he was told to do & all the other ref's who had read the following from CSA Policy on Law 4/2005 were doing their job & supported the young ref.

You can see a copy of the policy at http://www.royal-city-soccer.com/playerequip.pdf I'd attach the file but it's too large.

Sadly, a youth player was put in a position where he had to stand his ground for his religious beliefs. Credo's to his team mates who stood w/ him as that is what a coach instills into his players to be a team......Coach Carter for most youth players these days.

Who's at fault??? All of us!!! All of us failed in communicating & at being sensitive to the age levels involved. Far too often the rules are ref'ed at the FIFA level when we are dealing w/ youth players......not good as they are kids. Why are games ref'ed at the FIFA level IMO has to do w/ coaches not communicating to the players & parents what the ref's job is & what the rules are. If coaches would read FIFA's Code of Conduct, require players & parents to read the Fair Play Code the game would be in better shape than it is. Coaches, players & parents need to know that the game as far as rules go is very dynamic just as the game is.

IMO as a coach, coaches need to understand these policies & rules at all the different levels of the game. Basically, coaches need to be fimilar w/ their club, district, provinical, national & FIFA levels so they can prepare their players & parents for situations that they may not understand but need to as those are the rules of the game that the ref's follow & they may vary from one place to other w/ certain aspects of the rules being tweaked for local situations or what the ref sees on the field i.e. if both teams are wearing patka's no big deal. It's interesting to note that if you search the Internet for India's national soccer team none of the players are wearing patka's so they have followed the letter of the law.

It's a black eye for the sport but as participants all of us must take some ownership & responsibility for what has once again gotten the sport in the papers for all the wrong reasons once again.

 

[Keeper]

Well, well, well. This is quickly becoming quite the sh!t storm.

1. An 18-year old ref, eh? Well, that's certainly a bit more understandable about his decision to be so hard-nosed about it (considering, of course, the suggestion that he was being evaluated). That's a difficult situation for a young man of that age to be put in -- clearly ordered (allegedly) to officiate a match in a morally bankrupt manner, and then hung out to dry by those that told him to do so (allegedly).

2. An 18-year old ref, eh? Well, then, I can understand the player's choice words for him. It's a lot easier for a 15-year old to tell an 18-year old to go, than say . . . an award-winning official like Paul Ward. (or so I've heard)

3. The BCSA's explaination on their website is poor. They don't address the issue head-on and any reference Law 4 is vague and off-handed. Then, they complain that the media have failed to include the specific regulations in order to prevent any "mis-information" -- but they themselves fail to do so as well. Instead, they provide links to the Laws of and Interpretations of Mini-Soccer, a variety of other-language formats of the FIFA rule book, and an explanation of the offside rule. Why on Earth, is that necessary?

See here: http://www.bcsoccer.net/bcm/bcsocce...1E6228250D62DA4C872570730064D81E?OpenDocument

4. The link to the CSA directive Coach Oldie provided (link is tempermental and slow, so I've provided the attachments below) is useful to see where some confusion on the officials' front may have occured, but even that is sketchy at best. The closest it comes to touching on the issue is in point #2: "Bandanas: No bandanas are allowed." But seriously, can a patka seriously be considered a banadana? To an 18-year old Langley boy, perhaps. I'm slowly beginning to absolve this ref of some of the blame and instead, place it on the BCSA and the tournament organizers for (a) not properly training the refs in the first place, and (b) hanging him out to dry, saying 'that's not what we told them to do'.

5. Thinking back, I agree, I was a bit rash and overzealous in using "racism". I admit, the correct term should have been "religious discrimination" or "religious insensitivity". It may well be that the young ref has no such racist attitudes towards any particular group, but rather just be ill-informed or ignorant of other cultural traditions/customs. It is quick and easy to pull the race card out in cases such as this, where one visible minority is negatively acted upon. However, I acknowledge I may have been overly rash, and for that I apologize.

 

[Keeper]

Turbans not banned, soccer official says
Misinterpretation of the rules blamed for the cancellation of six amateur games

Jonathan Fowlie and Maurice Bridge
Vancouver Sun

Tuesday, September 06, 2005

LANGLEY - A dispute over religious head coverings that led to the cancellation of six amateur soccer games over the weekend resulted from a misinterpretation of the rules and not because of an official policy against the coverings, the head of the B.C. Soccer Association said on Monday.

"I can tell you . . . unequivocally, we do not have any rule that says that turbans or religious headgear are banned," Victor Montagliani, president of the association, said on Monday afternoon.

"There are hundreds of tournaments that go on [during] the Labour Day weekend. We have 2,000 referees in the province: it's impossible for us to govern every single one of them and what they do on a game-by-game basis," he said, adding the association will conduct an inquiry to determine exactly what happened.

Six games were cancelled at the amateur Langley Labour Day Tournament over the weekend after players on three teams were told they could not wear head scarves during play.

One of the players was Gurinder Dhah, 17, of Calgary, who was told Saturday he could not play without removing his patka, a scarf he wears on his head in accordance with his Sikh religion.

Dhah refused to remove it and then swore at the referee, his coach said on Sunday. When the referee showed him a red card, Dhah's team, the Calgary Northwest United Inter Tier 1, walked off the field and subsequently missed two games.

The team was back playing on Monday, with Dhah allowed to wear his headscarf. Despite that, he was still angry.

"I think it's discrimination, that's all, it's racism," he said after returning home to Calgary on Monday night.

"Why would they not allow [me] to play when my turban doesn't hurt anybody else?" he said. "It has no effect."

Dhah said he hopes his experience will ensure no one else faces a similar situation.

An annual event for players aged 10 to 17, the tournament drew 229 teams this year from B.C., Alberta, the Yukon and Washington state.

On Monday, Montagliani said the misunderstanding had been cleared up and that, to the best of his knowledge, all teams played their scheduled games that day.

Despite this, tournament chairman Michael Smith said he is upset over what took place, and will meet Montagliani to get answers on why head scarves had been banned from the fields.

"[This is] tarnishing the reputation of this tournament I have worked so hard on for nearly seven years -- I am extremely upset," Smith said.

On Monday, Montagliani made it clear there is no rule specifically banning head scarves, and speculated the problem was a simple misunderstanding. "The Indo-Canadian community has been playing with headgear for decades and all of a sudden, it becomes an issue on this weekend, so I think what's happened here is there's been a misinterpretation by maybe some local officials," he said.

"In [the rule book], it says that with respect to any equipment, and specifically headgear, if it endangers the player or an opponent, then it cannot be worn."

Isn't it their responsibility to govern them?

And obviously, by this report, having it happen in two separate games, it must've been more than just a problem with a single ref. There was some serious lack of appropriate training going on there.

 

[Reccos]

Keeper - you have to be fair. This article puts the whole situation in a better light publicly although CTV is still covering the original incident this morning. Not seen anyone from BCSA on camera there.

Victor Montagliani has made a clear and unequivocal statement that should end this fairly quickly although the family is pursuing a human rights case which could be problematic and maintain the story a bit longer.

I will agree it is precisely this kind of thinking on how we can enforce more rules that gets people carried away at times. 18 year old refs don't have a corner on the market for stupidity either.

It probably was a small group of refs that huddled together before the games at this tourny who decided how this will be handled and collectively none thought of the consequences.

Using Keeper's analogy that BCSA is responsible you could them blame them any time teams end up in brawls or players start a fight. They govern players so aren't they to blame would be the rationale. Hardly makes sense.

The headline of this thread albeit sensational much like you'd find in the Cornwall Times did get lots of us to read this. It was a question that needed to be examined but I still say stupidity reigns at the heart of this dispute.

 

[Gurps]

I heard about this incident yesterday.

My first thoughts were how this incident was going to be perceived by the general public. When Sikhs fought for the right to wear their Turbans in the RCMP, much hatred was strirred up agains the Sikh community. We were told that we should change, and that if we didn't like it, we should go back to where we came from,etc. The argument from the Sikh community was that when Sikhs were sent to fight for Canada and Britain in the wars of the past, they wore turbans, and religous head gear was not a problem then.

Many people reading this might also be confused about the headgear being worn. It is not the typical turban you see Sikhs wearing out. It is more of a tight cloth that covers the head. It is very small, and basically just covers the hair. In no way can that piece of cloth harm anyone during a soccer match.

I myself am a Sikh, but do not wear a turban. However, many of friends do( including Big T) and if in any way they were banned from playing, I would quit the game of soccer, and many other would as well.

It has been nice to read this thread, and see the level of support many TTP'ers have brought forth for this young man. Your support does not go unnoticed.

 

[Coach Oldie]

Yep, the headline in this thread & in the media has nothing to do w/ what really happen & folks need to understand that. What did happen were the LOTG where applied by the ref's in a matter laid out by BCSA following CSA policy which comes from FIFA.

Remember that there was a ref's meeting prior to the LLDT, there was a District ref or two that backed up the youth ref's so where do things fall but only above where the policy was written at FIFA & followed by CSA & BCSA. For me the stupidity reigns at the top were they are not clear enough on certain areas of the rules that address sensitive areas like this past weekend!!!

We are foolish to blame the refs & I hope that the ref's come out & say what really went on. Hopefully they will do that as a group from the BCSRA. Otherwise they are going to be the fall guys of FIFA, CSA & BCSA.

As much as I don't like to see this end up in court as a human rights issue, it might sort out the guys who write the rules & get them on the same page so the ref's can do their job outside of the gray area. Flip side is like any sport you are invited in to participate under the rules & sometimes the rules don't change i.e. when was the last time you saw a male youth player playing on a girls team? They can't in BC yet girls can play on boys teams as those are the rules.

Hopefully this will get sorted out soon as this weekend there are tons of kids in 4 District that are going to be wondering whether they can wear their patka's or not. As for 5 District, girls will know they can not wear scrafs/bandana's or sweatbands & etc.

 

[Mr Base]

There is racist refs in lower mainland with out a dout. Most of them never played soccer and have no clue about the game. The reason that they wat to ref is only to have some kind of power trip. Seventy percentr are un fit to ref the game. And on top of it they are pushing girls out as refs that need years to come out to the level of refing needed. These are kids power triping thinking they can call the game. They can not keap with the game, and call the game on impase of the people on the side lines. We need guys like Franmk Chacca and many more to call the game. These are X soccer player that know the game and would be totaly fare to both clubs. In richmond i have seen it with my own eyes that ref was rigging the game in front of me, and yet I am also a ref. when I saw that the people of BC Soccer were there next to him it made it clear that they are behind it.
I could never let my self be part of that crap ,that made me quit the reffing as of that day.Latino boys wre totaly distroyed by a gimp ref that can not even keap up with game.
But he is in the Uion he can dop what he wants. I do not care what he does but i do care when i see Neil Elliot Don Dancy Jim Lamond and many more on the side lines letting that ref get away with that. Perhaps bad water was the resalt of their dead. Kids here play good soccer but the fish stincks from the top an afuly bad. Racist is not a word. Ass Ho-e would be it.And anybody that plays in Richmond knows what I am talking about.It stincks to high haven. with out any bad water.Canada will never be part of the World sean till they clear up their own back yards. Kids from south America are just as good as rest can not get the chance or East Indiand kids get the same treatment. Get past the point of sadists and move on to bigger and better things. All as one. Stop taking about if's and buts resalts are not there get rid of them and get unother person till resalts get there. Stop old boys from distroying soccer. Give them horse shoes and pegs and cold beer and things will get better. There is going to be many tapes this year sent to Fifar RE: you racisim and unfair treatment of perople helping in lower mainland many years. If you guys want us to give your kind a space well fight is on and dirty politics will start from her see if you guys win a game down south. It is just one phone call away. Lets see how it goes for you from here own. Chile was the winner in Richmond game ref McDonald did rig the game for Richmond to go through. As H__________LE in all departments.Cheers to all the boys in soccer. We want to see all nations part of it.Talking track did get them. Funny funny.

 

[Mr Base]

BC soccer has some young guys like Byorn Osiek that do fantastic job and few other. The problem is not Byorn and his staff. The problems are old horses that forget that after all it is for kids only. If you think that suspending a boy for three years will teach him somthing. Than you as a person must be donkey. It might send him to be a gangster instead and could cose his parents grate deal of pain. That is the reason why they send kids to play soccer. They are trying to keap them away from trouble. Bord thinks that winning at all coasts is everything. Waw it is sad to see that. All we as parents want is our kids to be good people. If that dumb ref woud have called the game. Kids would be playing soccer. But it looks to me it is same move by Don Dancy as he used against Portuguies kids and Croatian kids, and club Punjab. He thinks by breaking the club that kids will come and play for KLM. Only sixteen Croatian kids play on a club soccer. One hundred and twenty belong to soccer development program that has nothing to do with bad politics of BC. These are all Canadian kids that do not get the same treatment. Now you tel us what the hell is going on. All of you guys start sending emails to your mp people and to all the papers you can. It is enough of this. If kids want Khalsa club it should be alowed. Same goes for Latino boys and Serbs Croats Germans and Portugies. All equal. Forget telling us how ownest you are and than go and shaft kids. Just look at White Caps in last five years no Canadian kids made the team. Only this year two boys came up from the club development side that has nopthing to do with BC. I thank Byorn for comming forward to facing the midia.
Maybe his truck will not be distroyed. Danke youg man keap up the good work. Let the boys play soccer make them do some community work with kids and you will see better people.Cheers.