Welcome to the TTP community
Be apart of something great, join today!
Solidarity Forever!
- Thread starter Dial 9-1-1
- Start date
Nice one bulljive, blame Gordon Cambell for Drinking and Driving on this whole teachers defiance.
Scab eh ? Did it take you all day to come up with that one.
What part of this strike is legal.
If the government caves now, then every Tom, Dick ,and Harry will walk away from their job everytime they feel that they have some issues.
Don't get me wrong, i think that changes need to be made and teachers deserve a raise. Just do it when you go back to the bargaining table in July!
Scab!
Nice one champ!
Scab eh ? Did it take you all day to come up with that one.
What part of this strike is legal.
If the government caves now, then every Tom, Dick ,and Harry will walk away from their job everytime they feel that they have some issues.
Don't get me wrong, i think that changes need to be made and teachers deserve a raise. Just do it when you go back to the bargaining table in July!
Scab!
Nice one champ!
Captain Shamrock
Well-Known Member
bulljive said:
That's true, you make the same wage.....
Cheers.
Dude.
Yeah it's true that sometimes wages for non-union people are higher than union members in the same industry. You have alluded to the fact that this isn't done from the goodness of the employers hearts. The rationale is to keep their employees non-union. The part you are missing is that if for some reason the Union weakens or goes away, why would the employers maintain a high wage? Short answer, they wouldn't.
Sham and you have said that unions used to be good. People should understand that if we don't fight to maintain our rights the clock will be rolled back. Sham any way you slice it 0% over two years is about a 5% pay cut(inflation), I don't know how you can think that's fair. If you don't think it's fair, because you don't believe in strikes there is absoluetly nothing you can do about it.
Yeah it's true that sometimes wages for non-union people are higher than union members in the same industry. You have alluded to the fact that this isn't done from the goodness of the employers hearts. The rationale is to keep their employees non-union. The part you are missing is that if for some reason the Union weakens or goes away, why would the employers maintain a high wage? Short answer, they wouldn't.
Sham and you have said that unions used to be good. People should understand that if we don't fight to maintain our rights the clock will be rolled back. Sham any way you slice it 0% over two years is about a 5% pay cut(inflation), I don't know how you can think that's fair. If you don't think it's fair, because you don't believe in strikes there is absoluetly nothing you can do about it.
Canuckboy,
More than anything, supply and demand laws dictate wages nowadays. Fact is, the unions just get in the way of this.
Canada is among the most progressive countries in the world. Anyone can argue as to who and how and what contributed to where we are. Democracy not only ensured people the freedom to chose their employment, it allowed unionized labor to take shape. The union has had it's place, and positive impact, in history.
That said, in the year 2005, there are alternatives. Yes, employers will go to great lengths to keep a union out of the shop. The weight of power has shifted from one extreme to the other, in many cases. If a company chooses to offer a higher wage for trades people, it's not only because they are trying to keep the union out, it is because there is a high demand for that tradesperson, and when there is high demand, usually there isn't high enough supply to meet it. Anyone trying to build there own house these days knows that. There just aren't enough framers, drywallers, and painters to go around. If companies want to stay on the leading edge of their industry, they have to pay higher to keep good workers. They are also motivated to have a highly productive shop. If you are a member of a union in your company, and are better at what you do than perhaps somebody older, slower, and dare I say lazier, you will not be able to command a higher wage than him due to the seniority benefits he has. What then will motivate you to be productive? Your job is protected, short of you sexually harassing somebody, so why not take it easy a bit, slow it down a little?
If you are working in a non-union shop, they can barely keep up with orders, and you are one of the most efficient abrasive blasting guys in town, guess what? You'd better recognize you have an opportunity to give yourself a raise.
Crazy thing this free enterprise world.
All I am saying is open your eyes, and accept the fact that we have moved forward.
Back to the teachers...as mentioned by Aves, the teacher / children debate can't be about widgets. I agree. But, there are many, many benefits to the parents of BC if we had the assurances that teachers would be held to a higher standard, paid a fairer wage, teacher-to-student ratios were smaller, they had better resources, and as a public were knew we wouldn't have to pay the consequences of a fcuking strike every-time the teachers are upset, you know what? We'd be better off.
BTW, isn't a scab a replacement worker? How is the Captain then considered a scab, if he's simply going back to his own job? Who exactly is he replacing?
More than anything, supply and demand laws dictate wages nowadays. Fact is, the unions just get in the way of this.
Canada is among the most progressive countries in the world. Anyone can argue as to who and how and what contributed to where we are. Democracy not only ensured people the freedom to chose their employment, it allowed unionized labor to take shape. The union has had it's place, and positive impact, in history.
That said, in the year 2005, there are alternatives. Yes, employers will go to great lengths to keep a union out of the shop. The weight of power has shifted from one extreme to the other, in many cases. If a company chooses to offer a higher wage for trades people, it's not only because they are trying to keep the union out, it is because there is a high demand for that tradesperson, and when there is high demand, usually there isn't high enough supply to meet it. Anyone trying to build there own house these days knows that. There just aren't enough framers, drywallers, and painters to go around. If companies want to stay on the leading edge of their industry, they have to pay higher to keep good workers. They are also motivated to have a highly productive shop. If you are a member of a union in your company, and are better at what you do than perhaps somebody older, slower, and dare I say lazier, you will not be able to command a higher wage than him due to the seniority benefits he has. What then will motivate you to be productive? Your job is protected, short of you sexually harassing somebody, so why not take it easy a bit, slow it down a little?
If you are working in a non-union shop, they can barely keep up with orders, and you are one of the most efficient abrasive blasting guys in town, guess what? You'd better recognize you have an opportunity to give yourself a raise.
Crazy thing this free enterprise world.
All I am saying is open your eyes, and accept the fact that we have moved forward.
Back to the teachers...as mentioned by Aves, the teacher / children debate can't be about widgets. I agree. But, there are many, many benefits to the parents of BC if we had the assurances that teachers would be held to a higher standard, paid a fairer wage, teacher-to-student ratios were smaller, they had better resources, and as a public were knew we wouldn't have to pay the consequences of a fcuking strike every-time the teachers are upset, you know what? We'd be better off.
BTW, isn't a scab a replacement worker? How is the Captain then considered a scab, if he's simply going back to his own job? Who exactly is he replacing?
Captain Shamrock
Well-Known Member
Exactly, Canuckboy, and that is why I voted no. I think the government ****ed up with Bill 12. But I never wanted it to get to this point. I knew there were other strategies in place before it got to this but I never wanted it to get to this, as many other teachers didn't. The strategies were minor though(not having staff meetings/stop sending Interim reports home etc) and I think most teachers felt it was going to get to the point where everyone walked out, but October 24th was the day it was supposed to start.......My question is if the union knew this was the set date, why didn't they just sit down at that time with the government before starting this strike immediately? Why wasn't this mediator/faciliatator brought in to start getting the sides talking over two weeks ago?
To many questions and not enough answers apparently.
BTW, Dude, thanks for clarifying for Bulljive that I wasn't taking over someone else's job. He is a greens keeper and has probably been around a few too many pesticides.
I'll tell you what, it is very nice to hear from some of your colleagues.
Tiocfaidh Ar La
Captain Shamrock
Well-Known Member
BTW, I have from heard from a very good source that it will be over by the end of the week. We should be back to school on Monday.
Don't shoot the messenger CSC
Don't shoot the messenger CSC
Dial 9-1-1
Active Member
- Thread starter
- #208
I heard somewhere that the Crown is taking the side of the teachers? There was something else about the Crown suing the government for disregarding binding arbitration and passing Bill 12? Can anyone elaborate, because I obviously cannot. Maybe this "illegal" strike wasn't illegal after all?
People were talking about it, but I wasn't really listening since I was trying to keep a straight face after going all in with my 8/3 off suit.
I can't afford this strike any longer---texas hold'em is absolutely running me dry.
People were talking about it, but I wasn't really listening since I was trying to keep a straight face after going all in with my 8/3 off suit.
I can't afford this strike any longer---texas hold'em is absolutely running me dry.
Captain Shamrock
Well-Known Member
Well, it still is and my source might be moot now after watching the news where the battle axe had a morbid look on her face. Of course she had no plan all along so this isn't a great surprise.......
Let's end this fcuking thing now........it is an absolute disgrace...............
Dude you do make some good points. BUT. Why is it then that in the majority of countries in the world there is no real middle class? True many countires suffer from massive government interfereance(Cuba,I'm not THAT left wing). Take a country like Mexico. Mexico is a democracy, it has a lot of natural resources. Mexico is truely free-market with very little Union membership. Mexican welders, framers, drywallers, painters etc...should be raking in the money. Mexican GDP is growing in leaps and bounds. Mexico has the 5th greatest number of millionaires on the planet. It's 2005 in Mexico too, but the working class seems to be stuck in 1905.
My point being that business is only interested in profit. Unions ensure the protection of those laws that they helped create. I'm sure when women finally won the "right" to 6 weeks mat leave people said, "there now we don't need Unions to fight for Mat. leave anymore". However Labour contined to push and now women have a full year of mat leave.
All I am saying is that Unions do have a purpose in today's society.
My point being that business is only interested in profit. Unions ensure the protection of those laws that they helped create. I'm sure when women finally won the "right" to 6 weeks mat leave people said, "there now we don't need Unions to fight for Mat. leave anymore". However Labour contined to push and now women have a full year of mat leave.
All I am saying is that Unions do have a purpose in today's society.
here's another spot for some viewpoints
.http://www.cbc.ca/news/viewpoint/yourspace/teachers_strike.html
Some interesting developments today with the prosecutors lawsuit and conflict of interest stuff...kind of ironic that the gov't is being sued by prosecuters for breaking the law (not adhering to binding arbitration)
I'm not complaining but all the money we are "sacrificing" (thousands)for what we believe in will stay in the districts to help fund the students needs. We are funnelling $ back into the system....more irony considering our last pay increase was paid for out of the already allocated local budgets (came out of learning resources / program funding)
That was when the gov't was nice enough to give us a cost of living increase but took $ away from kids to do it.
so even though we're "treating them as pawns" we're still"putting students first!"
.http://www.cbc.ca/news/viewpoint/yourspace/teachers_strike.html
Some interesting developments today with the prosecutors lawsuit and conflict of interest stuff...kind of ironic that the gov't is being sued by prosecuters for breaking the law (not adhering to binding arbitration)
I'm not complaining but all the money we are "sacrificing" (thousands)for what we believe in will stay in the districts to help fund the students needs. We are funnelling $ back into the system....more irony considering our last pay increase was paid for out of the already allocated local budgets (came out of learning resources / program funding)
That was when the gov't was nice enough to give us a cost of living increase but took $ away from kids to do it.
so even though we're "treating them as pawns" we're still"putting students first!"
Captain Shamrock
Well-Known Member
What do you think was up with Jinny's mug tonight when she came out just after 8:00? She wasn't very happy so obviously something didn't go her way? The ray of hope from yesterday 'has faded'........
My source called at 8:30, so I don't know if he had heard anything else............
She wasn't very happy so obviously something didn't go her way? The ray of hope from yesterday 'has faded'........My source called at 8:30, so I don't know if he had heard anything else............
Canuckboy,
With their population, it isn't a surprise that they have the 5th highest number of millionairs. What does that list look like, anyhow? Is Canada even in the top 5? Where does, say, India sit? China?
Mexico is a country and society where unions would and will serve a strong purpose, as well as too many other needs their government currently doesn't provide...subsidized housing, education, social services...safe to say they and many others democracies are way behind.
Given the number of corporations setting up shop down there (my principle has added two plants in my time with them), change, including growth in unions, is inevitable.
Luckily, we don't live in Mexico.
With their population, it isn't a surprise that they have the 5th highest number of millionairs. What does that list look like, anyhow? Is Canada even in the top 5? Where does, say, India sit? China?
Mexico is a country and society where unions would and will serve a strong purpose, as well as too many other needs their government currently doesn't provide...subsidized housing, education, social services...safe to say they and many others democracies are way behind.
Given the number of corporations setting up shop down there (my principle has added two plants in my time with them), change, including growth in unions, is inevitable.
Luckily, we don't live in Mexico.
Dial 9-1-1
Active Member
- Thread starter
- #214
What's with the poll results? Looks like this will be the first poll I lose since the "Greatest Canadian" debate.
Kudo's to the striking teachers and the BCTF for their 4 point plan which includes no wage increase in the first year provided the government reduce class sizes for young children and do a better job with special needs students. As a parent, I thank you for taking this stand for the students.
Captain Shamrock
Well-Known Member
PV said:
They couldn't have done this without striking? Kudos my arse.
As a parent/teacher, this 4 point plan could have been developed with the kids in class. How much input did the kids have in this '4 point plan'?
Easy there Captain, under the circumstances, there is little chance they could have developed this plan as I feel getting the public's attention was and is paramount. You see, society is so busy that until we are inconvenienced, will we wake up and smell the coffee. Really, the public didn't pay attention to the teacher's complaints for so many years. The class size issues have been stated for ever as have the special needs issues. Nobody listened. The government took advantage of the public's slumber. Geez, even the teachers themselves became docile and complacent regarding their own issues. They just did more for less, like everyone else. Then the government did it again. They shat in your face and everyone elses face. ILLEGAL STRIKE MY ASS! The government are the criminals and cannot be trusted. They cannot be trusted. Create legislation to suit the needs of the day. Geez, wonder why we can't change the laws to suit the common man?Captain Shamrock said:
If you don't realize that this government is acting as a dictatorship then you have your head in the sand everyone. It is scary. Where does it end? This has nothing to do with unionism. This has to do with morality. People just can't and won't take eating crap forever.
Yeah we all wan the kids back in school where they belong, to learn, NOT FOR DAYCARE like a bunch of the hypocrites in society really want. I don't believe the teachers are selfish at all. This was inevitable as long as all of us in society keep our heads in the sand. It takes strong people to lead others and make decisions. Thank goodness we have them in our society.
My opinion only.
Captain Shamrock
Well-Known Member
Dictator Government vs. Nutbar Union Leader......
Hmmmmmm.......which one to choose?
Of course we know that two wrongs don't make a right in MOST cases. You're right about one thing. It does have to with morality. It's nice to know that one can make a decision based on morals and beliefs and not have to follow what is trying to be crammed down one's throat. Well said, Ballbaby. BTW, thank goodness it was only your opinion, Ballbaby.
Members online
No members online now.
