Div 3 [VMSL Div 3] Predictions, Results & Banter 2016/2017

[Soccer Coach]

@Canucks4Ever Yep, no crowing going on here. We're just taking this one game at a time, and trying to be realistic about our prospects. Not looking past Campo, but we are a bit more familiar with each other since we've already been through a friendly. That should be a good match-up. The next 3 games we have after them will be against West Coast Saints, America, and Burnaby Selects, all of which should help prove out if we've done our prep work properly or not.

@clem - thanks for your report. Tough break to have to deal with injuries this early in the season; hopefully your guys have speedy recoveries. We have gone for a bit larger roster than normal as it gives us a few more knives in the drawer and helps us deal with those contingencies. Yes, Sammy and Jack are handfuls, and we're glad that they're playing with us instead of having to play against them. Looking forward to meeting you next time around.

We are coming here as the underdogs with three points behind and a previous defeat by VAFC Celtic in a friendly (3-1). Do not be surprised if @Trece ends up with 12 points. I am sorry Trece, but we will have to come with everything as we can not afford another loss (i.e. studs up and the like)

 

[trece verde]

We are coming here as the underdogs with three points behind and a previous defeat by VAFC Celtic in a friendly (3-1). Do not be surprised if @Trece ends up with 12 points.

That's okay; we'll have to stick with that 2-3-5.

I am sorry Trece, but we will have to come with everything as we can not afford another loss (i.e. studs up and the like)

Then I guess we'll just have to try to win again anyway.

 

[Soccer Coach]

That's okay; we'll have to stick with that 2-3-5.

Then I guess we'll just have to try to win again anyway.

Just for fun we might try the 10-0-0 formation.

We are thinking of going very Canadian this time and will do the 4-4-2. I was trying to watch the World Cup games, and it seem that they were playing with a back line of 3. is this possible? do you remember is they were doing the 4-4-2? From the highlights, I see one of the defenders pushing up and then a back line of three appears. I do not have the full videos and was too little to remember this detail.

 

[trece verde]

Because I'm so old I might remember? Yes. Typically they would have played with a stopper in front of their sweeper, so if the stopper is pushing it would have looked like a 3-across back line. If you look at the footage carefully, though, you can see a lot of the play at the back shifting left to Bruce Wilson who was a de-facto sweeper even though he didn't play in the middle. The rest of the back line in the clip were Lennard Bobbaduzi on the right, Ian Bridge and Randy Samuel in the middle (yes, the same Randy who is coaching in the VMSL), and Wilson on the left.

Just for fun we might try the 10-0-0 formation.

Then I guess we'll just have to steal the keys to your bus...

 

[Soccer Coach]

Because I'm so old I might remember? Yes. Typically they would have played with a stopper in front of their sweeper, so if the stopper is pushing it would have looked like a 3-across back line. If you look at the footage carefully, though, you can see a lot of the play at the back shifting left to Bruce Wilson who was a de-facto sweeper even though he didn't play in the middle. The rest of the back line in the clip were Lennard Bobbaduzi on the right, Ian Bridge and Randy Samuel in the middle (yes, the same Randy who is coaching in the VMSL), and Wilson on the left.


Then I guess we'll just have to steal the keys to your bus...

...yes.... interesting movements... on that game.
I started to watch the Canada Vs Hungary game, and actually Canada is playing better than Hungary (in my opinion). Defenetly in this game is a 4-4-2 in the second half. I think that they substituted Wilson. The first goal was a defensive error on his part (not closing the defender) and the second goal was an error from either Bridge or Lenarduzzi. The full back is out of position on the transition. Randy Samuel is really fast. Other than those errors, Canada did not look bad. It is funny because I always remembered Wilson playing a more central role, but perhaps time changes memory.



We will experimenting with the 4-4-2...I guess we will have to honour part of the Canadian soccer heritage.

 

[Soccer Coach]

Campo Libre 4 - VAFC Celtic 1
or our youth needs more people like @trece verde

This was in interesting game because it ended in a solid victory. It could have easily gone 7-1, but it felt at moments like a 1-1 game.

A very paradoxical game. The VAFC played better the first 20 minutes. They dominated us in the playing at reduced spaces, and were consistently closer at our penalty box. A foul was awarded to them. A rocket was launched just under the bar and the keeper barely could move. A nice and deserved goal. However, three things turn the tide. Our players are older and experienced, we train our defensive shape, and we are more fit.

The game started to gradually change. First they stopped making dangerous incursions. Then they started to lose the ball in the middle. Lastly they could not even make a basic build up. You could see their legs starting to tire, making innocent mistakes, and then giving the ball away in very dangerous areas. The first goal was the result of penalty. Completely unnecesary. Our guy was close the end line and could not score or pass to anyone, but two of their players hacked him. The second goal was the result of an interception in the midfield and a nice finish against the keeper. The third goal was another interception in the back line and then a nice finish above the keeper. The last goal was also a recovery and then the keeper kicked it to our midfielder who blast into the net from the half line.

@trece verde is doing a good job. Many of their players seem very young. Perhaps from Gold and Silver teams. Youth clubs could do this more often. I know that Marpole now has one team in the VMSL and Norvan another in division 3. This is perhaps should be project that could be initiated. Each youth club having one or two teams in division 3 of the VMSL.

I am sure that Trece's young guys will do better in one season or two. Essentially they were beating us but they got tired and still seem naive at the trade of winning a game, which is different than playing well.

 

[trece verde]

People's viewpoints on anything are all based on perspective.

Mine is different from Soccer Coach's. Some disclaimers:

1. I do not coach VAFC Celtic this year. I am not responsible for onfield content or the decisions of coaching staff.
2. Sometimes you can have a lot of players available, but just not have the right players available. Missing your team's starting keeper, centre midfielder, and strongest finishing striker will do that to you.

Perspectives:

1. There was no danger of this game ever going to 7-1. It was never that one-sided.
2. The penalty call was very tenuous. Our keeper crashed into his own player who fell into your forward; he was not hacked. Regardless, he did not read your shooter's intention well and guessed completely the wrong way. This is why he is the backup keeper.
3. Knocking the ball out directly to the other team's midfield and then getting chipped badly is also something that will contribute to one being a backup instead of a starter.
4. Swapping a 30 year old centre back out for a younger one at the half actually led to more chances for Campo than tired legs did. So did your decision to stop trying to beat "old" Kevin in the air. Conditioning definitely wasn't the issue; speed was. Hence part of the reasoning for my earlier statement about the wrong bodies instead of not enough.
5. Yes, there are a number of younger players on the roster. 5 of them were playing U18 last year, and one is still 17, and they have all graduated from the youth part of the club. However, there are also some guys on the field who are older than they look, and our stronger players are also in their late 20s. It's a mix, as most successful teams tend to be. The older players mentor the younger ones.
6. Naive at winning? Don't think so, as essentially the same lineup minus university players had a very strong summer season as well. There were very definitely some tactical errors made involving positioning of players that will be corrected before next weekend. The formation our coach wants the team to play is new to a lot of the guys, so it will take a bit of time to sink in. I don't know if I'm quite as optimistic as he is that this team will challenge for top of the table by the end of the season, but we'll find out as we get there. Our next game will be quite interesting.

 

[Soccer Coach]

People's viewpoints on anything are all based on perspective.

Mine is different from Soccer Coach's. Some disclaimers:

1. I do not coach VAFC Celtic this year. I am not responsible for onfield content or the decisions of coaching staff.
2. Sometimes you can have a lot of players available, but just not have the right players available. Missing your team's starting keeper, centre midfielder, and strongest finishing striker will do that to you.

Perspectives:

1. There was no danger of this game ever going to 7-1. It was never that one-sided.
2. The penalty call was very tenuous. Our keeper crashed into his own player who fell into your forward; he was not hacked. Regardless, he did not read your shooter's intention well and guessed completely the wrong way. This is why he is the backup keeper.
3. Knocking the ball out directly to the other team's midfield and then getting chipped badly is also something that will contribute to one being a backup instead of a starter.
4. Swapping a 30 year old centre back out for a younger one at the half actually led to more chances for Campo than tired legs did. So did your decision to stop trying to beat "old" Kevin in the air. Conditioning definitely wasn't the issue; speed was. Hence part of the reasoning for my earlier statement about the wrong bodies instead of not enough.
5. Yes, there are a number of younger players on the roster. 5 of them were playing U18 last year, and one is still 17, and they have all graduated from the youth part of the club. However, there are also some guys on the field who are older than they look, and our stronger players are also in their late 20s. It's a mix, as most successful teams tend to be. The older players mentor the younger ones.
6. Naive at winning? Don't think so, as essentially the same lineup minus university players had a very strong summer season as well. There were very definitely some tactical errors made involving positioning of players that will be corrected before next weekend. The formation our coach wants the team to play is new to a lot of the guys, so it will take a bit of time to sink in. I don't know if I'm quite as optimistic as he is that this team will challenge for top of the table by the end of the season, but we'll find out as we get there. Our next game will be quite interesting.

Thank you for engaging in the discussion in a respectful manner. This is always appreciated. Knowing the perspective of the other side can be very insightful.
I will just clarify or provide more details from our perspective.

1. I do agree that the game was level for most of it. No clear superiority other than the score. This is why I think that it is a paradoxical outcome. The possible 7-1 came from at
least three misses.
a) one on one with the keeper. Usually our striker finishes those, but he was fouled. This should have been a red card for the keeper.
b) 2 versus 1 against central defender. after beating the defender our striker shot weakly beside the post.
c) 30 seconds prior to the final whistle, our forward kicks the ball above the crossbar when the keeper is on the ground as a result of a scramble. Usually, he finishes those.

There were a couple more that usually the players finish without trouble.

7. The comment about the naivette on winning comes from the view that the quality and skill of the players in the team at that game was good enough to get a draw or a even a win for you guys. The errors of the keeper, the giving away of the ball by the back line, and the formation and substitution changes and frequent changes of formation made the win easy for Campo Libre. All those factors combined, for me, amount to naivenness or lack of experience at winning against seasoned players .

I am sure that next game will be very difficult for us against you guys. You have a very good team and once those things get sorted out, you area likely to be the favourite to win the game.
This is my perspective.

 

[MKLeveron]

People's viewpoints on anything are all based on perspective.

Mine is different from Soccer Coach's. Some disclaimers:

1. I do not coach VAFC Celtic this year. I am not responsible for onfield content or the decisions of coaching staff.
2. Sometimes you can have a lot of players available, but just not have the right players available. Missing your team's starting keeper, centre midfielder, and strongest finishing striker will do that to you.

Perspectives:

1. There was no danger of this game ever going to 7-1. It was never that one-sided.
2. The penalty call was very tenuous. Our keeper crashed into his own player who fell into your forward; he was not hacked. Regardless, he did not read your shooter's intention well and guessed completely the wrong way. This is why he is the backup keeper.
3. Knocking the ball out directly to the other team's midfield and then getting chipped badly is also something that will contribute to one being a backup instead of a starter.
4. Swapping a 30 year old centre back out for a younger one at the half actually led to more chances for Campo than tired legs did. So did your decision to stop trying to beat "old" Kevin in the air. Conditioning definitely wasn't the issue; speed was. Hence part of the reasoning for my earlier statement about the wrong bodies instead of not enough.
5. Yes, there are a number of younger players on the roster. 5 of them were playing U18 last year, and one is still 17, and they have all graduated from the youth part of the club. However, there are also some guys on the field who are older than they look, and our stronger players are also in their late 20s. It's a mix, as most successful teams tend to be. The older players mentor the younger ones.
6. Naive at winning? Don't think so, as essentially the same lineup minus university players had a very strong summer season as well. There were very definitely some tactical errors made involving positioning of players that will be corrected before next weekend. The formation our coach wants the team to play is new to a lot of the guys, so it will take a bit of time to sink in. I don't know if I'm quite as optimistic as he is that this team will challenge for top of the table by the end of the season, but we'll find out as we get there. Our next game will be quite interesting.

Don't worry Soccer Coach thinks he knows more than the rest of us, regardless of how many years we've been associated with the VMSL in some way, shape or form. He thought one club had a youth team, when they don't. He spouts bullocks

 

[Soccer Coach]

Don't worry Soccer Coach thinks he knows more than the rest of us, regardless of how many years we've been associated with the VMSL in some way, shape or form. He thought one club had a youth team, when they don't. He spouts bullocks

I would tend to disagree with respect to what you think that I am thinking. Perhaps this is what you want to think that I think. This is not the intent. I am simply questioning the collective known knowns and try to touch or bring to light the collective unknown unknowns. It is about exploring perspectives.

 

[MKLeveron]

I would tend to disagree with respect to what you think that I am thinking. Perhaps this is what you want to think that I think. This is not the intent. I am simply questioning the collective known knowns and try to touch or bring to light the collective unknown unknowns. It is about exploring perspectives.

So what are your thoughts on playing illegal players? I'm interested to know.

 

[Soccer Coach]

So what are your thoughts on playing illegal players? I'm interested to know.

Some people do not like to lose. Especially cup finals.

 

[MKLeveron]

Some people do not like to lose. Especially cup finals.

That's your excuse? Well Campo will always have that black cloud following them then.

 

[Soccer Coach]

That's your excuse? Well Campo will always have that black cloud following them then.

Losing is hard. This we understand. Some will take it graciously; others will not. By losing, I do not mean only cups and promotions. I mean also players. It is appreciated that the league now has online registration and does a good job in clearing missunderstandings and/or missleading allegations. This is Division 3 thread, and you are discussing completely unrelated topic.
I reply to you out of politeness and in good faith.

 

[MKLeveron]

Losing is hard. This we understand. Some will take it graciously; others will not. By losing, I do not mean only cups and promotions. I mean also players. It is appreciated that the league now has online registration and does a good job in clearing missunderstandings and/or missleading allegations. This is Division 3 thread, and you are discussing completely unrelated topic.
I reply to you out of politeness and in good faith.

Well you certainly didn't answer the question in the Division 1 thread, so figured you were a coward.

 

[Soccer Coach]

Well you certainly didn't answer the question in the Division 1 thread, so figured you were a coward.

I am finding that you are not discussing in good faith, so I will add you to the "ignore list".

 

[MKLeveron]

I am finding that you are not discussing in good faith, so I will add you to the "ignore list".

Good faith? Mate you avoided answering the question haha

 

[Soccer Coach]

This week we will have interesting matches in Division 3a.
America faces VAFC, and we will be facing 2nd place Royal City.
@trece verde . I am sorry to ask. What happened in your last game?

 

[trece verde]

Nothing to be sorry about. Our guys just found out what happens when you play a team who have adapted better to conditions than you have. Since the construction fences have gone up at Hillcrest, the field has apparently been shortened by roughly 15 metres. It's not that wide to begin with, so it makes for close quarters. Adding a bunch of large, aggressive Irish lads who are used to playing on the slippery grass surface to the mix taught our bhoys a lesson on how to adjust to the surface you are playing on. Saints marked tightly and were hard in on every challenge and tackle, and didn't come out second too many times. They were full value for the 5-2 score.

Playing on a larger dry turf surface would make a difference as I think our passing would be more effective there, but the guys still have to learn to be more adaptable as a group.

HIghlights: dead balls are working for us as one of the two goals was scored on another rocket of a free kick. Midfield play was quite good as well.
Lowlights: too many defensive brain farts by large defenders who need to be winning more battles in the air and on the ground, and not enough strikes on goal despite a strong midfield performance.
Lessons learned by young players: it's not enough to be skillful. You also need to have tactical awareness and adapt when you're being pressured relentlessly. Changing formation definitely helped, but there will definitely be more small-sided games at training at pace to help get guys used to this.

America next weekend at home. We might actually match up better against them than teams like the Saints, as our Latino guys will get to play on turf again and the ball will actually go where they want it to. Having our English striker back will also help (believe it or not).

 

[trece verde]

Don't worry Soccer Coach thinks he knows more than the rest of us, regardless of how many years we've been associated with the VMSL in some way, shape or form.

Not worried. Soccer Coach and I are quite familiar with each other.