VMSL Premier Meeting Tonight....

[machel]

If the top 2 Div 1 teams can't beat 2 of the worst teams in the premier, do they deserve to go up? What's the point?

That's always been my problem when THAT argument gets brought up.

I guess the point is battling it out over the whole season to get your team to the next level.

The promoted team usually picks up a few players in the off season aswell. they'd have a new stronger line up for the following season and most likely more competitive.

 

[Regs]

The playoff series should be considered a part of "the whole season".

When's the last time a team got promoted, picked up a few players, and didn't get relegated right away?

The normal procedure in this league has always been what comes up goes straight back down.

 

[knvb]

More on Regs' point...with the exception of Sporting, Surrey and now Norvan who else has remained up in the last 10 years? Indo maybe? I think they went down before coming back up didn't they? That's out of 20 some odd teams coming up.

 

[Keeper]

Good point, you elitist bastards. Let's just scrape the concept of promotion altogether. Barely anyone manages to stay up anyways.

Kind of like me even bothering trying to beat that fcuking Monkey Lander high score of yours.

 

[machel]

yeah, I guess you're right....what comes up usually goes straight back down.

but off the top of my head...
clan/columbus merger made that team more competitive, provincial champs?
Argentina stayed up for a few seasons.
both promoted teams last year stayed up.
lol

 

[john]

If only one team can be promoted from Div 1 then is there a way to make up a schedule with only 1 side.......thus 1 winner and 1 team being promoted. It will result in the best team going forward and a stronger premier division.....

 

[bonefish]

One problem of this whole process is the scope of the change being suggested. This initiative needs to encompass all divisions top to bottom. The 2 group Premier and Div 1 divisions are much maligned but how about a 3 group Div 2? What is probably needed is 2 more divisions; or perhaps a Div 3 with 2 groups each.

 

[Captain Shamrock]

Why not relegate four teams from Premier and bring up the standard two from division 1? If they are serious about wanting to improve the quality of the Premier division then relegating four shouldn't be an issue.

There you go. For once, Dapo makes sense.


If the second to last placed teams are that good, they'll be back up the next year.

It is completely unfair for a team to win its division and promotion and still not go up. We all know that promotion is the hardest thing to do in any league......

 

[Captain Shamrock]

4 spots came via:
-The two top teams from the FVSL (Surrey Utd and Surrey FC)
-The other two came from a four team tournament/playoff between the two relegated teams in Premier and the two 2nd place teams in Div 1. (Norvan and Trollers successfully came out of this in 1999)

Its a tough pill to swallow for Div 1 to only have 1 team get promoted (eventhough beneficial for the league)..........how about:
-Two last place teams from Premier get relegated
-Two top teams from Div 1 playoff/tournament with the two 6th place teams. Like Keeper said.....just reverse the process from 1999.

No argument.....its all decided on the pitch.

Sandman

Looks good, Sandman, but let's go back to the days when Sapperton/Club I/Indo were battling for a years to get promoted......Imagine playing 18 games and earning promotion to have it end with a mini-tournament, and you might be missing key players for whatever reason. It kind of makes the season moot.......We shouldn't be catering to Premier teams here......Punish the two last placed teams and bring the two Division One teams up who earned promotion. NO league in the world has the first placed team go through a playoff system and this should be no different.......Some of the posers in the premier league would have to suck it up for a year if it meant a lot to them to play for that particular team which would get promoted. Imagine that, a bit of loyalty to a team. Tough concept nowadays apparently.

 

[Captain Shamrock]

If the top 2 Div 1 teams can't beat 2 of the worst teams in the premier, do they deserve to go up? What's the point?

That's always been my problem when THAT argument gets brought up.

Because the top two teams in the division one earned promotion and the other premier teams deserved relegation. Teams will always pick up players once they get to Premier.......especially with a lot of sluts out there just wanting to play premier. They will jump from team to team.......Premier sluts I say.........

 

[gomesy_jr]

yeah, I guess you're right....what comes up usually goes straight back down.

but off the top of my head...
clan/columbus merger made that team more competitive, provincial champs?
Argentina stayed up for a few seasons.
both promoted teams last year stayed up.
lol

Clan/Columbus had a good run this year, but they where not provincial champs, they lost to eventually champions, Sapperton. The most recently promoted team to win Provincials was Sporting Vancouver, after only 4 years in premier

 

[fuzzy]

Looks good, Sandman, but let's go back to the days when Sapperton/Club I/Indo were battling for a years to get promoted......Imagine playing 18 games and earning promotion to have it end with a mini-tournament, and you might be missing key players for whatever reason. It kind of makes the season moot.......We shouldn't be catering to Premier teams here......Punish the two last placed teams and bring the two Division One teams up who earned promotion. NO league in the world has the first placed team go through a playoff system and this should be no different.......Some of the posers in the premier league would have to suck it up for a year if it meant a lot to them to play for that particular team which would get promoted. Imagine that, a bit of loyalty to a team. Tough concept nowadays apparently.

Dropping 4 premier teams doesn't make sense. The third to last and fourth to last are likely better team than the promoted teams. Or maybe not. That's why you make them play one another.

There is no perfect scenario here. The fact that you may be missing some key players for the mini playoffs is part of the game.

You have to deal with it.

 

[bandcamp]

Bonefish is right about this discussion only looking at the top divisions - when in fact a wholesale change to the whole league is what's needed. I am always amazed at why we don't model the VISL structure (Div 1,2,3,4,5...etc all with 10 teams). It's simple and it WORKS. One team goes up, one team goes down. Play within each division is much more consistent, regarldess if you are Div 6 or Div 1.

 

[Captain Shamrock]

Dropping 4 premier teams doesn't make sense. The third to last and fourth to last are likely better team than the promoted teams. Or maybe not. That's why you make them play one another.

There is no perfect scenario here. The fact that you may be missing some key players for the mini playoffs is part of the game.

You have to deal with it.

Good point. Drop 2 premier teams from each of their divisions. It's only scenario which makes sense......

 

[bobby]

I would prefer 4 teams come down from premier with the 2 div 1 winners gaining promotion but I doubt it will work this way no matter what the div 1 teams vote for next week. If there has to be some sort of playoff system I say it works like this:

2 Div 1 winners play for promotion
2 6th place premier teams play to avoid relegation

The loser of the div 1 battle would them play the WINNER of the 6th place playoff to decide who plays premier in 2007. This way both div 1 teams still have a chance of being promoted.

 

[Freestyler]

Bonefish is right about this discussion only looking at the top divisions - when in fact a wholesale change to the whole league is what's needed. I am always amazed at why we don't model the VISL structure (Div 1,2,3,4,5...etc all with 10 teams). It's simple and it WORKS. One team goes up, one team goes down. Play within each division is much more consistent, regarldess if you are Div 6 or Div 1.

The reason behind not having so many div. I believe is because it would take teams forever to move up to premier as teams have to start in the lowest level no matter what. I believe it was last year I heard the Whitecaps wanted to put a team in the league of a combination of 1st team, reserve players, etc but they were told they would have to start in div. 2 which would have been a joke.

 

[Captain Shamrock]

Well it appears that the vote at the division one meeting last night was 6 - 5 (9 teams didn't bother showing up) in favour of the top team from each division one group going up.

A motion was put forth that IF they were only going to let ONE division one team go up, then there should be one league this year with 20 teams, each playing each other once. This motion was not allowed to be carried because only one motion was allowed regarding the issue of promotion?

Bottom line is Mr. Azzi is going to call another meeting with every team in all divisions and vote on the same thing which was shot down by the 11 teams there. A playoff between the top two teams for the right to go forward with 3 teams dropping down to division one. Interesting how things can be DICTATED.


Personally, if they did it with the one division one group, it would be more difficult to argue......but that makes too much sense....19 games as opposed to 18 games? Big ****ing deal.....that's many they play in premier anyway........

 

[knvb]

As a point of conversation, but don't you think at some point the inmates have to stop running the asylum? People have been moaning for years for someone to get off their arse and improve not only the Premier but the VMSL as a whole. There are too many chefs spoiling the soup, if you follow, and they’re making decisions on where their own team fits into the equation not for league improvement, IMO.

Now, what happens if Premier has one side and Div 1 has one side? Is it only one up and one down from that point forward?

Personally, if they did it with the one division one group, it would be more difficult to argue......but that makes too much sense....19 games as opposed to 18 games? Big ****ing deal.....that's many they play in premier anyway........

I agree.

 

[Captain Shamrock]

The suggestion was just for next to have the ONE section of Division One. After that, back to normal.......As for Premier, whether they have two groups of 6 or 1 group of 12......either way, 2 teams go down the next year, either the last placed team or the bottom two teams.......