VMSL Rumours 2015/2016

[salute]

Only time will show whether this was a good idea....I mean off joining these two teams but looking at the players that bot teams had that is the best solution because neither team had enough quality players

 

[GhostRider]

I'm sure every prem club that has other teams in lower divisions would Lovett have the option to call players up when they know they'll be short...

How does that work with promotion/relegation? Would teams be allowed to move down players for key promotion/relegation games?

 

[knvb]

open age - U21, div 4,3,2,1 can move freely up to any level on permit.Only 7 permit players per game. Masters O35's signed players are allowed down into any division on permit with-in the same club. No lateral moment with-in a club (ie) two div 3 teams swapping players. Technically you can have a 30 man roster in div 1 with 7 playing on permit in Premier, but that only works until Christmas and the transfer window is closed and teams need to set rosters for cup play and provincials.

~HTHBH

 

[GhostRider]

Thanks. Sounds like a reasonable scheme.

 

[LION]

The FVSL club system works great. Only draw back is when. 6 of 8 teams in div1 already has an A team in premier.
But at least you can run a proper club system and have call ups from B and C teams.
The cat system does not work. Nobody wants to play cat. You don't play for a league title or anything.
U21 is good but every year you have to rebuild the team pretty much. Lots of work from a club perspective to keep that going year over year.

I think Rinos Tigers will be fine with multiple teams at different levels. They can transfer some pieces up and down before January 15th and set the line up.
It gives a home to all levels in a club. And good club depth as they can transfer up and down from within etc.

I'm sure one day vmsl will make this work. But each system has their draw backs. Vmsl system doesn't promote club system structure. See westvan u21 leaving as they wanted a higher level for their players and couldn't find it in the vmsl. So to keep the team together they had to make that call.
But the valley draw back is most teams already have an A team in premier so who will be going up next year if Abbey B wins it? It's a not a true promotion relegation system as you have to go down the standings to find a team ready and wanting/able to go up.

I can see North Delta SC B winning FVSL div1 this season and getting promoted. Solid team that will be gunning for it.

 

[jimmy_jones]

.....I can see North Delta SC B winning FVSL div1 this season and getting promoted.....

Wouldnt they be ndsc 'A' now ?

Even if they win they'll probably head over to the vmsl and take over the Tigers/Rinos B spot in vmsl div 1 the following season

 

[Canucks4Ever]

I believe Rinos has some experience with the whole not being able to be promoted from Div 1 thing... I think that:s what led to the whole Westside break up if I'm not mistaken (perhaps this is why they're taking this whole player soliciting thing so personally). Not 100% sure on my history but I don't think the rule ever actually prevented a Rinos promotion though.

Anyway the real question is will Rinos be honouring the wage demands of the former Ayjal players, or will the players have to 'renegotiate' with the new management regime

 

[salute]

I think there will be a lot of sour-faces .....by the players

 

[RL RCD]

Are we still exploring rumours?

What I noticed (when schedule appeared on VMSL site) is the following:

1) ICSF Pegasus is now Pegasus FC (so Regs rumour was not a rumour after all). At the same time, in Division 1, Columbus is now ICSF Columbus.

2) CCB United is now Pacific United. Is that only a name change? If Pacific United is a newly formed club/team how they can have a Premier league team? Should not all new clubs/teams start from division 3?

Does it make a sense to all of you that some teams move from one club to another and keep the place in the same division? I know you are going to tell me: "Yes, of course, why not?" but that just does not seem right. If we allow this (and obviously that is what's happening) you have a situation in which a coach and a group of players going from one club to another, even changing leagues, etc. It seems to me that these things will have to addressed seriously.

What if tomorrow (just assuming) Metro Ford or Surrey United Premier team coach and players decide they do not want to be a part of Metro Ford or Surrey United and then they approach, I do not know, Burnaby Selects Club and offer to be a part of Burnaby Selects!? Suddenly, Metro Ford (or Surrey United) does not have a Premier league team but Burnaby Selects does! I apologize for using MF, SU, and Burnaby names but I just wanted to make a point.
In other words, does a sport in Premier league belong to the club (i.e. Metro Ford) or a team (MF Wolves)?

How do we expect soccer to get to the next level in this country if we cannot even figure out local leagues? Who even dares to dream about Canadian soccer league?
How can one West Van team play Premier in VMSL and then their younger team (U-21) plays Premier in FVSL? Does it really make any sense?

 

[Regs]

It's the way it's pretty much always been only that in the last decade it has happened way more frequently.

Many of the "merges" in the past had more to do with teams either folding or going to a new youth club that can inject some cash into running a local adult team.

I don't really think the local leagues are in a position to produce rules that bar the practice. They have enough headaches dealing with a season as it is.

 

[RL RCD]

We all know that all this is happening because we have a combination of a club system (youth/adult clubs) entering into competition with some individual teams (which are adult only teams).

It is OK that Columbus (as a team) joined ICSF this season but what if next year Columbus moves to another club? In other words, every individual team has every right to look to merge with a club but once it becomes a part of the club then that is it! That specific spot (in certain league) should belong to the club now, not the team. That should be a very simple rule to follow.

Is there a rule that states that a club must agree to the departure of the club's team? If no, should not that rule exist to prevent any issues that are quite possible?

 

[LION]

You have some valid points. But lets say Metro ford coach and players want to go to Burnaby. yes the spot belongs to the club, but can they actually field a premier side?
Would you rather the league force Metro Ford to stay and field a team? or the 3rd place div1 team get promoted? Both these would make the league weaker.

Pacific United is just a name change. Same ownership and all, but teams are allowed to change their names I believe.

Yes maybe CCB the club owned it, but again, would they be able to field a premier team as a club if the coach and players move on?

Delta Hurricanes, now Langley Hurricanes,,... same stuff. New club took them in and took care of them.
The club Delta now didn't have a premier team, so what would you suggest?


There for sure is an issue with the league structures though, and I don't have the answer or a fix on it.
Valley has a great club system, but then the div 1 league is filled with B teams, with the clubs A team already in Premier.

VMSL doesnt really want clubs B teams in div1, then who is really fighting to get to Prem?
That is why West Van had to find a home for their young studs in a competitive division. Or they would have had to start in Div3.

Nobody wants to play CAT.

What would you suggest?
Perhaps there is a better way for local soccer. But both systems have their flaws for sure.

 

[Regs]

At the end of the day, it's the agreement between the club and a men's team and the relationship they have.

I'm waiting for the day that Pacific United changes there name again and joins the VISL, only a matter of time really.

Sapperton Rovers Forever

 

[Regs]

I'm not going to edit that post out of shame.

Did I really just use 'there' over their?

Fcuk me

 

[knvb]

this sequins of events amuses me...

 

[RL RCD]

Would you rather the league force Metro Ford to stay and field a team? or the 3rd place div1 team get promoted? Both these would make the league weaker.

No, the league could not force MF to field a premier league team but what if MF, as organization, as a club, wants to keep the spot? That spot belongs to the club, not to the team - that is my point. One individual like a coach or manager (and several players) do not have right to take a spot away from the club. If club losses a spot it should be offered to the next Division 1 team.

Pacific United is just a name change. Same ownership and all, but teams are allowed to change their names I believe. Yes maybe CCB the club owned it, but again, would they be able to field a premier team as a club if the coach and players move on?

Based on your explanation - it is not just a name change. If CCB still exists then they should keep the spot unless they forfeit it. In that case the spot in Premier League should be offered to the best placed Division 1 team. But, how a group of guys (and a coach) can move away from the club, join another club and keep the spot? That just does not make any sense.

Delta Hurricanes, now Langley Hurricanes,,... same stuff. New club took them in and took care of them.
The club Delta now didn't have a premier team, so what would you suggest?

The same explanation as for CCB and Pacific above. If Delta (club) released Delta Hurricanes and forfeited a Premier League spot then that spot should have been, back then, offered to the Division 1 team. That would make sense although the (Premier) league would most likely be weaker but so what? How does that movement from one club to another make any sense? Private teams joining community clubs and leaving whenever they feel like it!?

VMSL doesnt really want clubs B teams in div1, then who is really fighting to get to Prem?
That is why West Van had to find a home for their young studs in a competitive division. Or they would have had to start in Div3.

Rino now has a Premier league team and Division 1 team. Imagine Tigers get relegated to Division 1 and playing next season in the same division with other Rino's team? Would that make any sense?
What is relationship between Pegasus FC (former ICSF Pegasus) and ICSF Columbus? What if, by any chance, ICSF Columbus gets promoted to the Premier league and then Pegasus FC also wants to come back (under ICSF umbrella). Clubs are not allowed to have two Premier league teams. Is Pegasus FC going to fold? Who is then going to take their place?
Re West Van. That is not the first club that has a strong U-21 side. Starting in Division 3 maybe would (and maybe would not not) accomplish anything. But, what are they going to accomplish in FVSL? Are the best players from West Van FVSL going to be transferred to West Van VMSL? Probably! So, West Van found a way to have to Premier League teams (but in different leagues). I think Metro Ford already has a team in FVSL (or used to).
This just tells a story about inability to sit together and create one Lower Mainland soccer league. Basically, who really cares, it is amateur soccer anyway! But, it tells a story about Canadian soccer in general.

What would you suggest?
Perhaps there is a better way for local soccer. But both systems have their flaws for sure

Simple rule in which league spots belong to the clubs (and I think it is already in place). If individual teams compete in certain leagues then those teams have option to compete as independent teams or join any organized club. When a team joins a club then automatically a league spot belongs to the club (not to the team). If a club (or individual team) forfeits the spot it should be offered to the best placed Division 1 team (that way competition makes sense, teams have something to play for, and those "wandering teams" are prevented doing what they are doing and acting as private teams under the umbrella of community teams when it fits them (and leaving when something does not go the way they want it).

My two cents. Sorry about the long post.

.

 

[RL RCD]

My comments are within the quote above. I did not realize it would look like that. Here is a copy:

Would you rather the league force Metro Ford to stay and field a team? or the 3rd place div1 team get promoted? Both these would make the league weaker.

No, the league could not force MF to field a premier league team but what if MF, as organization, as a club, wants to keep the spot? That spot belongs to the club, not to the team - that is my point. One individual like a coach or manager (and several players) do not have right to take a spot away from the club. If club losses a spot it should be offered to the next Division 1 team.

Pacific United is just a name change. Same ownership and all, but teams are allowed to change their names I believe. Yes maybe CCB the club owned it, but again, would they be able to field a premier team as a club if the coach and players move on?

Based on your explanation - it is not just a name change. If CCB still exists then they should keep the spot unless they forfeit it. In that case the spot in Premier League should be offered to the best placed Division 1 team. But, how a group of guys (and a coach) can move away from the club, join another club and keep the spot? That just does not make any sense.

Delta Hurricanes, now Langley Hurricanes,,... same stuff. New club took them in and took care of them.
The club Delta now didn't have a premier team, so what would you suggest?

The same explanation as for CCB and Pacific above. If Delta (club) released Delta Hurricanes and forfeited a Premier League spot then that spot should have been, back then, offered to the Division 1 team. That would make sense although the (Premier) league would most likely be weaker but so what? How does that movement from one club to another make any sense? Private teams joining community clubs and leaving whenever they feel like it!?

VMSL doesnt really want clubs B teams in div1, then who is really fighting to get to Prem?
That is why West Van had to find a home for their young studs in a competitive division. Or they would have had to start in Div3.

Rino now has a Premier league team and Division 1 team. Imagine Tigers get relegated to Division 1 and playing next season in the same division with other Rino's team? Would that make any sense?
What is relationship between Pegasus FC (former ICSF Pegasus) and ICSF Columbus? What if, by any chance, ICSF Columbus gets promoted to the Premier league and then Pegasus FC also wants to come back (under ICSF umbrella). Clubs are not allowed to have two Premier league teams. Is Pegasus FC going to fold? Who is then going to take their place?
Re West Van. That is not the first club that has a strong U-21 side. Starting in Division 3 maybe would (and maybe would not not) accomplish anything. But, what are they going to accomplish in FVSL? Are the best players from West Van FVSL going to be transferred to West Van VMSL? Probably! So, West Van found a way to have to Premier League teams (but in different leagues). I think Metro Ford already has a team in FVSL (or used to).
This just tells a story about inability to sit together and create one Lower Mainland soccer league. Basically, who really cares, it is amateur soccer anyway! But, it tells a story about Canadian soccer in general.

What would you suggest?
Perhaps there is a better way for local soccer. But both systems have their flaws for sure

Simple rule in which league spots belong to the clubs (and I think it is already in place). If individual teams compete in certain leagues then those teams have option to compete as independent teams or join any organized club. When a team joins a club then automatically a league spot belongs to the club (not to the team). If a club (or individual team) forfeits the spot it should be offered to the best placed Division 1 team (that way competition makes sense, teams have something to play for, and those "wandering teams" are prevented doing what they are doing and acting as private teams under the umbrella of community teams when it fits them (and leaving when something does not go the way they want it).

My two cents. Sorry about the long post.

 

[Regs]

Quick note: Peg was NEVER a part of ICSF

 

[Regs]

What would you suggest?
Perhaps there is a better way for local soccer. But both systems have their flaws for sure

Simple rule in which league spots belong to the clubs (and I think it is already in place). If individual teams compete in certain leagues then those teams have option to compete as independent teams or join any organized club. When a team joins a club then automatically a league spot belongs to the club (not to the team). If a club (or individual team) forfeits the spot it should be offered to the best placed Division 1 team (that way competition makes sense, teams have something to play for, and those "wandering teams" are prevented doing what they are doing and acting as private teams under the umbrella of community teams when it fits them (and leaving when something does not go the way they want it).

Isn't that what the VMSL already has in place when they implemented the CAT system? I'll go out on a limb and say the idea may have looked good on paper but it failed! No one wanted to play CAT, players are not loyal like that, they want to play... and premier teams, as much as we want to say are the best of the best, are glued together by friendships. Rarely would a CAT player become established on a premier team... new players were always acquired by way of a napkin in the Nations Cup beer gardens

 

[cement shoes]

Are we still exploring rumours?

What I noticed (when schedule appeared on VMSL site) is the following:

1) ICSF Pegasus is now Pegasus FC (so Regs rumour was not a rumour after all). At the same time, in Division 1, Columbus is now ICSF Columbus.

2) CCB United is now Pacific United. Is that only a name change? If Pacific United is a newly formed club/team how they can have a Premier league team? Should not all new clubs/teams start from division 3?

Does it make a sense to all of you that some teams move from one club to another and keep the place in the same division? I know you are going to tell me: "Yes, of course, why not?" but that just does not seem right. If we allow this (and obviously that is what's happening) you have a situation in which a coach and a group of players going from one club to another, even changing leagues, etc. It seems to me that these things will have to addressed seriously.

What if tomorrow (just assuming) Metro Ford or Surrey United Premier team coach and players decide they do not want to be a part of Metro Ford or Surrey United and then they approach, I do not know, Burnaby Selects Club and offer to be a part of Burnaby Selects!? Suddenly, Metro Ford (or Surrey United) does not have a Premier league team but Burnaby Selects does! I apologize for using MF, SU, and Burnaby names but I just wanted to make a point.
In other words, does a sport in Premier league belong to the club (i.e. Metro Ford) or a team (MF Wolves)?

How do we expect soccer to get to the next level in this country if we cannot even figure out local leagues? Who even dares to dream about Canadian soccer league?
How can one West Van team play Premier in VMSL and then their younger team (U-21) plays Premier in FVSL? Does it really make any sense?

I am normally a lurker but I thought I would post for a change. In regards to RL RCD's post and in particular comment number one I thought I would clear up that rumour. First it is ICST and not ICSF. Secondly Pegasus FC is still firmly entrenched in the Surrey FC system. The organization simply removed ICST from the name so that it could steer away from summer club affiliations provide a clearer pathway for players Surrey FC players to move up through the program into the Pegasus Men's team structure with Adam Costley and Paul Bahia leading the way. There is an article on the change on the surrey fc website at surreyyouth.com.

There some good discussion on this thread, so as you were....