women's super league?

[Gooner21]

Just curious if anyone thinks a super league similar to what is coming on the men's side could work in the women's game? Perhaps the top 6 or 7 current MWSL premier teams and 3 or 4 from the island...would surely be a better overall standard....and would generate some buzz, not to mention having a true premier 10 team winter league with some travel involved would be unique.
Thoughts?

 

[WestCoast]

Just curious if anyone thinks a super league similar to what is coming on the men's side could work in the women's game? Perhaps the top 6 or 7 current MWSL premier teams and 3 or 4 from the island...would surely be a better overall standard....and would generate some buzz, not to mention having a true premier 10 team winter league with some travel involved would be unique.
Thoughts?

Isn't it called the W-league???

 

[Fat Bastard]

There isn't the organizational strength at the club level to pull this off. The prevailing attitude in women's soccer is still 'recreational' even at the premier level. I think a new league is a good idea, but an entirely separate league with no affiliation to the LIWSA or the MWSL. I believe the MWSL does a phenomenal job when it comes to recreational soccer, but the quality at the premier level has dropped so much in the last decade that I don't think its salvageable. And it's not the players, there is enough talent. It's everything from club management, referees, no set standards and so on.

I am prepared to see the new board through a bit of a transition, but I believe the interests of elite teams and players would be better served in a new circuit. If that new circuit involves Island teams then fine.

The bottom line is there has to be a clearly defined set of minimum standards for acceptance. The PCSL womens division has teams from all over BC and at times the US and while the quality control is better, the depth of talent is better (university players), there's still way too many poor teams.

The men have history, resources and resolve on their side. With the women, I think we need to walk before we run.

Having said all that, clearly we're all beating around the bush. Perhaps it's time to start throwing some real ideas out there. This isn't the first time the idea of a new league has been floated.

 

[Gooner21]

Isn't it called the W-league???

No, the WL is where you make two big road trips (one to Cali, on to Col)each costing about $15k in an 8 to 10 game schedule....at least in the western conference!

 

[Gooner21]

There isn't the organizational strength at the club level to pull this off. The prevailing attitude in women's soccer is still 'recreational' even at the premier level. I think a new league is a good idea, but an entirely separate league with no affiliation to the LIWSA or the MWSL. I believe the MWSL does a phenomenal job when it comes to recreational soccer, but the quality at the premier level has dropped so much in the last decade that I don't think its salvageable. And it's not the players, there is enough talent. It's everything from club management, referees, no set standards and so on.

I am prepared to see the new board through a bit of a transition, but I believe the interests of elite teams and players would be better served in a new circuit. If that new circuit involves Island teams then fine.

The bottom line is there has to be a clearly defined set of minimum standards for acceptance. The PCSL womens division has teams from all over BC and at times the US and while the quality control is better, the depth of talent is better (university players), there's still way too many poor teams.

The men have history, resources and resolve on their side. With the women, I think we need to walk before we run.

Having said all that, clearly we're all beating around the bush. Perhaps it's time to start throwing some real ideas out there. This isn't the first time the idea of a new league has been floated.

Good points FB.
We've had only 4 out of 8 games where 3 officials were present...that's unacceptable at the premier level. One of my parents behind me at a game who had another daughter in youth metro made a comment at one of our games with only a centre official, "this is worse than youth, at least we get teenagers as linespeople"....yikes! The PCSL is good in principle for a nice weather league with high level players, but what purpose does it serve other than to give college and serious premier players a place to play for a couple months? Looking at this summer's standings from the women's premier division, you could clone it onto the current MWSL premier division and see the same clear and significant drop from the top to bottom teams.
In a new "super league" with an 18 game schedule (10 teams), I suggest you'd see the top teams with a 12-6 or so record and the bottom teams with a 6-12 or so record...and many more 3-2 games than 6-0 games. More parity, more talent, and more overall competitiveness every weekend = growth in the women's game!
I don't see a major difference in the MWSL premier division from 12 to 15 years ago.....there have always been cycles of 2 to 3 top teams, usually one dominant team, and then everyone else. As the dominant team with names on the provincial trophy, it was the Marlins for a few years, UBC Alumni for a few, Bby Canadians for a couple, and Surrey for many years now....always one or two other serious contenders but the league has always dropped off considerably after team 4...I'd suggest this might be the first season in many where come the spring, teams 5 and 6 will be much better and more competitive than in the past. Maybe it shows the league's willingness to allow new premier teams is a step in the right direction to build the quality in the middle of the pack some more, but with a couple of the top island teams there could be a league with 6 to 8 legitimate contenders within a very short timeframe....now that would be progress if you take an historical look at the league. As for league standards dropping, I remember the old Marlins' days when I saw them beat a team in league play at Newton Athletic Park on a gravel field with no nets or flags....and I think the score was double digits to nil.
Add the Whitecaps in to a new league (who would surely support it as they have stated in recent years their philosophical belief in regional and BC wide development initiatives), and you'd have a very strong league.
What organizational strength do you need at the club level? I'd suggest it wouldn't be much more work to a premier team to enter the MWSL or a new BC super league, apart from a bit of travel planning and some increased fundraising efforts. And I think there are enough true soccer people in our division now and on the island that it could have traction and support.
Just my 2 cents to open the discussion....and maybe stir the pot

 

[Fat Bastard]

Just to clarify my points...

The men's venture is almost a UEFA like set up where there would be promotion/relegation from the Premier League down to the regional leagues on an annual basis. That's a nifty concept, and very ambitious. But at this point wouldn't work since the women's leagues are dominated by the recreational sector of the soccer community and in general concepts for the premier/elite are often not embraced.

When I started in women's soccer in 1995 there was a Premier A and B division. There were six teams in Premier A, and only two legitimate teams: Marlins and Coquitlam Strikers. As Gooner points out, that aspect hasn't changed, two or three teams at the top everyone else at the bottom. There's more parity now, but it should be even better. The reason is that the number of quality players and the level of that quality has increased significantly in the last decade and a half. Where are all of those players?

The biggest difference between PCSL and MWSL is quite simply the organization at the top, and more importantly the focus on quality. Admittedly, it's dropped off in recent years, in large part due to the PCSL's watering down of the women's circuit in an effort to grow it. It probably grew too fast.

In a new league, what I'd like to see is the following concepts:

1. A set of minimum standards adopted and enforced - everything from MINIMUM roster sizes to matching kits to quality of the pitches and amenities (change rooms, etc.).
2. Clubs/teams being responsible for the supply of assistants - just like with the youth. This accomplishes two things: more likely to ensure the presence of three officials, and helps develop young officials. (An obligation we all should have. We all don't like them, but we also know we can't play without them.)
3. Focus on development of club systems (easier permitting systems, perhaps a reserve division, etc.).
4. An open cup competition that is integrated throughout the season.
5. Promotion of the league, and the women's game as a whole. League-wide sponsorships (ie. match balls), Cup finals on local TV or even webcasts. A more "outside-the-box" approach.

As for ten teams. I think it's too many. At least right now. I would suggest six from Lower Mainland and two from Island. We'd end up with only 14 games, or an unbalanced schedule. If we went with more than that I think quality would be impacted negatively.

 

[Gooner21]

So FB, when are we taking the ferry ride over to convince the island folk?

 

[Gooner21]

And just because I live for fantasy footie leagues, here's what my desired league would look like:
3 divisions....."western" (3 island teams), "coastal" (NS, Rich, Westside, Whitecaps), "central" (Bby, Coq, Surrey, + one of other 3 bottom teams in league now).
20 game schedule
Top team in each division plus the next 5 highest point-earning teams to make 8 teams in league cup quarterfinals....then a final four weekend just like the PCSL to declare a league champion.
Looking at the top 3 premier island teams right now (Gorge, Castaways, and Prospect Lake), they all have div 1 level teams so perhaps a reserve or B division could also be formed in this concept to create player movement/permits.
I love dreaming....

 

[Fat Bastard]

I don't like divisions like that, and I don't like the Whitecaps. Otherwise, I think we're on the same page. Did I mention I don't like the Whitecaps?