BCPL- BC Premier League: Proposal

[johnnybluenose]

Sir M, I do believe ACBC Can compete with the Cream of the VMSL Crop. I have watched them play and have seen VMSL Prem games, that coupled with their early clinching of the title proves this theory, I'm not so sure about the others in the FVSL.

Poco is currently second best in the league points wise, and might be able to poach a few other players to fill any gaps, PoMo isn't there yet, but certainly has the club set up in order to succeed in the long haul. PAU and LUFC have issues with this season, I'm no expert on either but I'd wager that it is down to McQueen's departure from the fold at PAU coupled with a loss of some players and the regulars getting another year older. LFC123's guys in Langley are a mix of an aged bunch who have great chemistry mixed with some young bucks from elswhere (TWU, a few from Chilli last year IIRC, etc)

The VISL rep has gone to Nat's once or twice in recent history too IIRC, so they are bound to have at least one team compete, perhaps two...

The other side of the argument is that how quickly would the 4 teams coming from D1 improve, adding to the stable at the VMSL if MF, Surrey Utd, WestVan, and either Inter, Peg, or Clanbus move to this league? Could these teams come up to speed quickly enough?

Why would Azzi ram this down the throats of the league if there are no positives for the VMSL? Does anyone have any ideas why he would push so hard if there truly were no benefit to the VMSL?

 

[Polska]

Polska, I would hope money as an incentive would not change anyone's mind. After all, this proposed league is supposed to be for the betterment of soccer isn't it?

Seems to be The way of the world now a days though dont it? As for the betterment of soccer, isnt that where canada has lacked? Funds?

For now the betterment of soccer

25,000 dollars in prize money divided between top three in bcpl could help out alot...

All we need to do is convince azzi to take a paycut

what we have here is an impass between the 3 sides..

I dont see it ever working with the VISL as long as ferry rides are part of the deal.. U need a bridge built before they can be involved..

The fraser valley teams Have everything to gain from this..where the Vmsl has nothing to gain and everything to lose...

can something not be worked out to allow the Top FSVL prem teams a shot in the VMSL Prem Div... Fuk why not just rename the Vmsl prem league the BCPL and like i said re structure the relegation / promotion

 

[Dude]

Polska...you mention that the FVSL has everything to gain, and the VMSL everything to lose.

I have to challenge that...it is the other way around. Maybe on the actual competition level the VMSL has an edge. It's been that way for, well...how about since the Second World War? (right HOS? )

From what I'm seeing right now, the FVSL is sitting on a stronger, more stable leadership base. The FVSL has established a strong club system, with most of those clubs having direct tie-in to a youth system. The facilities in the FVSL are head and shoulders superior to the VMSL. And you know what? The competition isn’t that bad. In fact, it’s pretty good, even if at the Premier level it is 1A to the VMSL. It is not a stretch at all to say that if the FVSL continues on w/ their current growth plan, and simply leave the VMSL out of it altogether, they will be just fine.

Like Regs said, you have Bill Azzi being thrown under the bus right now, and who exactly is stepping up? Who over there has their hand up, ready to take on that mess? Mr. Millar, are you ready to take this on? Many would argue that you seem to have the right ideas, frame of mind, and acumen to lead the VMSL in the right direction.

Who else? Who really wants this labor of love? With all due respect for the love of the game, I know what my price would be, and even Ghouse couldn't afford it.

Seriously guys...at this point, after all this debate, and after all I've read AND heard, you can't honestly tell me the VMSL has more to lose in this venture. Right now, it is looking like the FVSL and VISL have more to lose than the VMSL if this thing were to go sideways after inception.

 

[GhostRider]

Dude said:
I guess I would ask this...shouldn't it be the responsibility of the club to do the things you say? Shouldn't the club be affiliating itself w/ a youth organization, in order to gain access to that talent

Being an ethnic team the BCSA player out-of-district rules have been a barrier to developing our own youth system because our community is spread across all district boundries. This is a cause that the VMSL could take to the BCSA on behalf of its member clubs because so many of them are ethnic.

Dude said:
And I hope I don't offend you with this, but does being an ethnic club that caters exclusively to its own community maybe hold you back in this department?

I feel that we don't do anything to exclude non-Croats as supporters. (we have plenty of non-Croatian players) However, we don't go out of our way to attract non-Croat supporters. Having said that, we haven't made much effort to attract new Croat suppoters either - and it shows. I'm happy to say that we are focusing on this right now and are making steps to change it.

Dude said:
All that said, the limitations holding you back aren't other club’s problems, IMHO.

I disagree. The strength of the VMSL is the collective strength of its' member clubs. A strong VMSL can wield more influence with the BCSA and maybe even in community politics. These things have direct impact on our club in terms of access to resources and facilities.

ghouse said:
but its hard for me to swallow your haveing a hard time when your the only team that owns thier own training field

It's a community owned field with no lights so we can't train there in the winter. It's impossible to find good training facilities in the winter. We have no influence with the cities or schools. This is where the VMSL could try to gain influence and help us build these relationships.

ghouse said:
its a cash cow compaired to the poker fundraisers

I wasn't hilighting fundraising as our problem specifically- but a burden for already stretched-thin organizers of many clubs in the league.

When your vets move on,you must replace them and if your not well organized at the top and are not prepaired to lose the older great players and you havent been working in advance to find the next best thing...tough luck. Thats soccer everywhere in the world.

The whole point of my original post is that overall the clubs are not very well organized at the top. (with a few exceptions of course) Club organizers can't make recruiting for 5 seasons from now a priority when you're looking down the barrel of next season. It's this type of issue the clubs could use some help. I'm not saying the league is obligated to help in this area - but if the league oraganizers are going to spend their time doing something other than running the league - then why not focus on identifying the pain points of the clubs and helping relieve some of that pain?

 

[Millar]

Dude, actually I can't believe I'm saying this, but yeah I would take it on. Obviously like anything else, it would have to be with other right people involved that have the same vision as me. Azzi has his men in place now. That would be where the problem would be. No offense to the people involved now, but it would have to be a changing of the guard COMPLETELY, if someone else took over. Just like a business.

I'd be honest right now and say there is a few things I've seen from other leagues that should be adopted right away, and I do believe a Champion's League would be one of the first things I would look at. But I don't want to start a platform on here.

But let's just say I care enough about a league I've been involved with for longer than I want to admit, that I would like to become a big part of going forward.

 

[ghouse]

Honestly, it sounds like the people organizing the BCPL should have a couple of emergency meetings/sessions and information meetings with the top clubs to clarify and answer some questions. Cause it sounds like there is a bit of uncertainty floating around.

After talking with some players from clubs/teams in all leagues, it does sound like money is an issue for many clubs. Whether they like to openly admit it or not. For example, some Island teams, it costs around $10,000-$15,000 per season for them just in their own league, mostly due to travelling costs and so on. But add the BCPL cities in the mix for travelling, and that number skyrockets. And some teams are just unprepared and/or unwilling to take that step. Whether it's financially or just by the way things are, they rather travel within their district or city, have a beer after the game, and not have to worry about making the late ferry back.



I think at these meetings their should be people who give ballpark numbers how much the expenses are going to cost being a team in the league, are their any sponsors what will they do, and also give guidelines or pointers to teams how to raise money, whether it's through sponsorship deals, community events, so on and so on.

The guys who really want to get this league secured for next year, should really be pulling out the stops in educating and explaining to teams the how,when,where's and so on. Have as many meetings til everyone who needs to be on board is on board. The onus is on them. Cause clubs with financial troubles or don't feel that there's enough information will be leaning toward "no", regardless if the BCPL is an awesome thing and big step in BC soccer.

Regardless, this league will go through eventually, every major sport in BC has something similar to the BC Premier League, whether it's Baseball or Hockey and so on. It's time soccer has it too. The key question is when. And it seems like now is the best time for it. There definitely is a window of opportunity here, with the Whitecaps and MLS coming.

I just posted the math and its $120.00 a player extra a season...Its not the money. Skyrocketing? $120.oo
Home games are for beers and if the double headers are played on the island too with beer gardens then you can still have a beer after the game

 

[ghouse]

GHouse, like I said, I do not doubt your enthusiasm, nor your will and wish to see soccer improve and succeed. And I don't think you should read into which way I lean as far as moving forward.

I do, however, disagree with one thing you are saying. Moving ahead without a plan on paper that is TOTALLY agreed on by all involved, that is organized, covers all scenarios, has escape routes if things begin to fizzle, is a recipe for disaster, no matter how enthusiastic people are.

I know you want things to improve, however if this is rushed and all the details aren't ironed out, and the league subsequently fails, which is a concern, all 3 existing leagues and the participating clubs are in a mess, and soccer will have regressed substantially farther back.

That is where I disagree with you. If you want this league to be successful, give it the best chance possible to succeed. Flying by the seat of our pants, and coming up with solutions along the way isn't the answer in my opinion.

Millar ,Ok agreed.
What would you like to see on paper?
Do you think we still have time to put it all on paper and call a meeting for all to see and debate?
I mean enough time if a paper was presented say in a few weeks?
Enough time to salvage something for the next season 8 months from now?
Not chicken scratch but a game plan..that could be met discussed and worked on together over the next few months so we can put in play for the Scheduled BCPL season?

If not why not 8 months why 19 months?
I feel there is plenty of time. Now.

 

[Dude]

Dude, actually I can't believe I'm saying this, but yeah I would take it on. Obviously like anything else, it would have to be with other right people involved that have the same vision as me. Azzi has his men in place now. That would be where the problem would be. No offense to the people involved now, but it would have to be a changing of the guard COMPLETELY, if someone else took over. Just like a business.

I'd be honest right now and say there is a few things I've seen from other leagues that should be adopted right away, and I do believe a Champion's League would be one of the first things I would look at. But I don't want to start a platform on here.

But let's just say I care enough about a league I've been involved with for longer than I want to admit, that I would like to become a big part of going forward.

Wow. I was being somewhat facetious, but good on you.

Sounds like you all need to get your ducks in a row before the next AGM.

 

[Millar]

Christ Dude, You got me at a moment of insanity. Having said that, I do care though, and would take on a role. And this is not to diminish what Will Azzi has done in the past. Not at all.

 

[Millar]

GHouse,

I really believe that the way things were put forward, and by no means through the mis- deeds of Thomas, I feel there has been a major obstacle created, that would make things difficult, to overcome at present. Like I said earlier, like anything give it the best chance to succeed. I haven't been in the inner workings, to even tell you I have the answers for that right now. I was just at the meeting on Sunday, and saw the response there. Hence, I say there is an obstacle.

 

[Polska]

How does it work anyways?
Is the current board voted in?
How often does the term last?
Now would be as good s time as any to bring change
I mean really..Isnt Azzi like 72 years old


It would be like running the Soprano's outta Jersey..

 

[Dude]

Christ Dude, You got me at a moment of insanity. Having said that, I do care though, and would take on a role. And this is not to diminish what Will Azzi has done in the past. Not at all.

Wasn't me. Must have been Regs posting under my handle. Business has been slow at TTPinc ever since Serena Williams won the open.

 

[ghouse]

The biggest issue is quality of opposition, and the fact that the VMSL had a very bad deal with this model. Why would top VMSL clubs want to go in a league with inferior opposition?

I find it very telling that people from teams who cannot realistically compete with the big 6 or 7 in the VMSL when it matters are the ones who are big proponents of this league, some quite desperately.

In my view, it is at this point not about the altruism of the "good of the game", and to masquerade that as such is insulting. It is more about people wanting to create a process whereby they can get into the league with the strongest level of competetion instead of by the traditional method(s). For now, I say they earn it on the pitch.

Bottom line is, the best teams will go to the best league. The current BCPL proposal is a far cry from that.

Sir M.

A few things on here that you may not have thought of.
No matter when ever you merge 3 leagues together you must be fair.
The 3 3 4 agreed teams makes it fair. fair to all 3 leagues. evenly.
Thats how you start...Fair.
2nd ,if you put a (better) team in the new division and half the guys move to masters or get injured or go to collage or move away or to another team...How can you say that team 6 months later are going to be the better team. Sporting for eg 2 years ago 1st to worst one year?
So again that doesnt fly and its not being fair.
3rd , What if the league moves forward without VMSL and soccer changes. FVSL becomes stronger as players stay in thier area ,younger guys grow into better players,Players jump ship because they like the BCPL idea. whatever. And then the VMSl with a new Leader says hey ,were sorry we missed the boat and we want in now?
Will you think you still deseve 4 teams. Your not the best anymore.
What would be fair. Maybe only 1 team cause we think your not good enough. That wouldnt be fair either.
How good you are will never be known unless you play more than a one off. You cannot tell from 1 game. We all have had those games where we have been beatin by a weeker team.
There is no real way to tell...Except with the BCPL and the 3 religations every year.
Im not stupid I do agree the 6 top VMSL teams are better than most FVSL and VISL teams.
But this way was the fair way to all involved when starting something new.
Its not negotiable. You simply have to be fair at the beginning.

 

[Gurps]

Ghouse,

Relax, have a cold one.

 

[ghouse]

True that

 

[outkast]

But one thing Azzi ,Thomas and Kjeld Brodsgaard (Island) got was the fact that moveing forward NOW is crucial.
QUOTE]

I dont know why you are in such a piss up that NOW is the time? I understand with the MLS coming in more attention may be brought to soccer in Vancouver....at the proffessional level!

The BCPL will not now or ever be a feeder league for the whitecaps, so why is it so imparitive that NOW is the time? Maybe let the caps draw more attention and then move in, in a few years when people give a 'more' of a shite about soccer in our communities.

Rushing into a league that obviously hasn't had enough preparation will kill what you're trying to do. Why would a team try and promote itself to the BCPL if the first year its ran is sub par competition and ran poorly.

I respect your drive to move soccer forward but unfortunately you need a lot of people on board with the idea, and with the same passion for the league as you have.

Carry on...

 

[two-nine]

let's say that we stick with the 4 3 3 as was planned for next year. Let's just say for example that all three fvsl get relegated in the first year. According from what i have been told 3 teams come up the following, 1 from each league. Wouldn't that fvsl team that comes up two years from now technically be the fourth place team from this year (if the fourth place team this year actually wins next year). Where is the quality in that? Quality of the league should be the most important thing here. 29

 

[ghouse]

But one thing Azzi ,Thomas and Kjeld Brodsgaard (Island) got was the fact that moveing forward NOW is crucial.
QUOTE]

I dont know why you are in such a piss up that NOW is the time? I understand with the MLS coming in more attention may be brought to soccer in Vancouver....at the proffessional level!

The BCPL will not now or ever be a feeder league for the whitecaps, so why is it so imparitive that NOW is the time? Maybe let the caps draw more attention and then move in, in a few years when people give a 'more' of a shite about soccer in our communities.

Rushing into a league that obviously hasn't had enough preparation will kill what you're trying to do. Why would a team try and promote itself to the BCPL if the first year its ran is sub par competition and ran poorly.

I respect your drive to move soccer forward but unfortunately you need a lot of people on board with the idea, and with the same passion for the league as you have.

Carry on...

Your not understanding...
The league will need a few years running to be better no matter what. Start it now and work the bugs out before the hype of soccer grows and the eyes are upon us. Really there is not much to work out. Running a league by the 3 names above is easy. They already do it. It again is not rocket science. 1 year to move some teams around and to settle in and work a few bumps out is all it will take.
I dont care what anyone says..Its super easy because its already being done the only variable to add is the ferry. Thats it.
Even though you and most VMSLers dont know about what has been planned. Everything and I mean everything has been worked out. Right down to costs, Island support,ferrys, Provincials,Home Cups Promotion and Religation. Even talks with sponsors have been started. Oh and how much money the league(s) will be kicking in.
Azzi may not have told you anything but Thomas has told us everything we asked. In detail.
His number is on the BCPL website and he has come on TTP and invited people (with legit concerns and people effected) to call him.
He took calls today.
And dont fool yourself. Rideing the MLS Wave is important.
You must get the companies while they are soccer fad crazy.
I have received sponsor money many times before and if its a hot topic in the coffee room, the door opens for you way easyer.

 

[ghouse]

let's say that we stick with the 4 3 3 as was planned for next year. Let's just say for example that all three fvsl get relegated in the first year. According from what i have been told 3 teams come up the following, 1 from each league. Wouldn't that fvsl team that comes up two years from now technically be the fourth place team from this year (if the fourth place team this year actually wins next year). Where is the quality in that? Quality of the league should be the most important thing here. 29

Great point and I asked that myself.
Players will move to that team weather its right or wrong and that team will be quality.
But that wont happen..well anything could happen. I just cant see 3 from any league being ousted first year. Still could happen.
If that was to take place then you would have a stronger league the next year anyways. And thats good. Again 1-2 years to settle everyone in.
The reason I dont think it will happen is my phone and email is going crazy from quality players who want to play for us. I know other teams feeling the same calls. Non of the teams will be week.
It will be a good division.
Dont Worry 29 we will give you some action.

 

[white girl]

Yo G why don't you join div 3 an work your way up like everyone eles cause I really can't lisen to your crying anymore an don't worry you won't loose any of your players with the money there getting