Rangerforever
Well-Known Member
Except for their Bronze tans
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Canada MNT: Road to 2018
- Thread starter Regs
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@Soccer Coach: fcuk off, I'm busy.
Soccer Coach
Well-Known Member
oh... are you?
@Soccer Coach
Your first problem is that you assume a whole hell of a lot about folks here on TTP having NEVER MET THEM, or having never seen them- in this case- coach. I've been witness to guys like [USER=6]@Ballbaby, @Rangerforever, @LION, @Gurps, @knvb, @Regs @utah (I could go on and on) as either teammate, coaching colleague, competitor on the pitch, or sometimes all three scenarios...despite the constant pisstaking back and forth, I KNOW these guys exhibit quality in these capacities. These guys know the game, these guys are very good footballers, many also very good coaches, and I know it's a situation whereby, when they were in their prime, and there was an MLS, and a true pathways to it, they'd either be in that pathway, or in the top league. For players of our generation, it was a matter of the pathways failing us. Ballbay, I think you even played in the old CSL, but where could you have gone from there? All directions for Canadians have been hamstrung by lack of opportunities domestically. Dead-end pathways, and we are still, really, in that mode, the way the MLS is set-up w/ their "import requirements" that do very little to help Canadians get a shot. But I digress...
Having been exposed to many of these guys in a coaching capacity, I can tell you I have taken notes, because I see what they bring, and am unabashed about adopting some of their approaches. When @knvb was on staff at Surrey United, I had him in with my U10 boys for a couple of weeks, primarily so I could pick-up some tips. I did. Ballbaby doesn't know this, but I have several of his drills on video, I them implement them to my younger and much less skills girls. Not just because Balls is devastatingly handsome, somewhat of a hero, and my first choice of a lover if I ever turn gay, but because he knows his shite. You see, there is some respect built up there.
The "wrong thing wrong" and the "right thing right" approach is about encouraging thinking and decision making, about working on ones weaknesses to turn them into strengths, and about encouraging discussion. It encourages the player to consider several different good options, instead of humping the ball blindly. But, I'm sure a coaching marvel like yourself has figured that out. Again, I am coaching Bronze players, not Messi. Messi is welcome to attend my sessions, I'm just not sure he'd have anything to gain.
You assume a lot of the basic "methods" you are preaching are revolutionary. The most laughable was breaking down shooting, which Lion already tore you a new asshole on. I read the rest of your shite...you are recommending fencing lessons. FENCING. About the least accessible activity there is, not to mention pricey, and finally, not something almost any kid will want to willingly do. Fencing. FFS, give me strength.
Then I find out your lofty credentials are extended to a Div. 2 VMSL team. Not even kids. This discussion has become about development, and you are not even in development, you are in player management.
Come on. Seriously. If you are going to preach from the rooftops, maybe you should have climbed it, first? Like, done something to earn the respect you so obviously seek?[/USER]
Your first problem is that you assume a whole hell of a lot about folks here on TTP having NEVER MET THEM, or having never seen them- in this case- coach. I've been witness to guys like [USER=6]@Ballbaby, @Rangerforever, @LION, @Gurps, @knvb, @Regs @utah (I could go on and on) as either teammate, coaching colleague, competitor on the pitch, or sometimes all three scenarios...despite the constant pisstaking back and forth, I KNOW these guys exhibit quality in these capacities. These guys know the game, these guys are very good footballers, many also very good coaches, and I know it's a situation whereby, when they were in their prime, and there was an MLS, and a true pathways to it, they'd either be in that pathway, or in the top league. For players of our generation, it was a matter of the pathways failing us. Ballbay, I think you even played in the old CSL, but where could you have gone from there? All directions for Canadians have been hamstrung by lack of opportunities domestically. Dead-end pathways, and we are still, really, in that mode, the way the MLS is set-up w/ their "import requirements" that do very little to help Canadians get a shot. But I digress...
Having been exposed to many of these guys in a coaching capacity, I can tell you I have taken notes, because I see what they bring, and am unabashed about adopting some of their approaches. When @knvb was on staff at Surrey United, I had him in with my U10 boys for a couple of weeks, primarily so I could pick-up some tips. I did. Ballbaby doesn't know this, but I have several of his drills on video, I them implement them to my younger and much less skills girls. Not just because Balls is devastatingly handsome, somewhat of a hero, and my first choice of a lover if I ever turn gay, but because he knows his shite. You see, there is some respect built up there.
The "wrong thing wrong" and the "right thing right" approach is about encouraging thinking and decision making, about working on ones weaknesses to turn them into strengths, and about encouraging discussion. It encourages the player to consider several different good options, instead of humping the ball blindly. But, I'm sure a coaching marvel like yourself has figured that out. Again, I am coaching Bronze players, not Messi. Messi is welcome to attend my sessions, I'm just not sure he'd have anything to gain.
You assume a lot of the basic "methods" you are preaching are revolutionary. The most laughable was breaking down shooting, which Lion already tore you a new asshole on. I read the rest of your shite...you are recommending fencing lessons. FENCING. About the least accessible activity there is, not to mention pricey, and finally, not something almost any kid will want to willingly do. Fencing. FFS, give me strength.
Then I find out your lofty credentials are extended to a Div. 2 VMSL team. Not even kids. This discussion has become about development, and you are not even in development, you are in player management.
Come on. Seriously. If you are going to preach from the rooftops, maybe you should have climbed it, first? Like, done something to earn the respect you so obviously seek?[/USER]
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Soccer Coach
Well-Known Member
Dude,
You keep making the mistake over and over again. Try to concentrate on the ideas and concepts. Not on the person.
The purpose of the character of @Soccer Coach is to point out the collective hallucinations and denials that you have built around yourselves in our soccer community (i.e. Rinos bitches non-stop about the Saudi for years, but joins forces with him the minute the premier spot is offered to them, the level of play both at the National level and amateur level is quite low but nobody wants to acknowledge it to the full extent nor nobody wants to take responsability and realize that they could do things to improve it). This is all.
I understand that you are very fond of the "right thing right" and "wrong thing wrong", but I can guarantee you that the vast majority if not all of the top players in the Southern Cone and Mexico/Costa Rica never heard of such thing from a coach in the pre U12 years or offered ice cream every time someone did a fancy move or "correct" move. I am not saying that it does not have it merits.
You can either have the option to dismiss it and throw those comments. Or you have the choice of reflect on them and perhaps start to do things differently, and explore, and see that it might yield better results (development) for your players. Why are you afraid of trying something different of exploring of accepting that in other parts of the world kids are taught differently and yields better outcomes?
Wow, you truly are a donkey. You must think in your little mind that I have an ice cream cart sitting outside my training sessions and games, and I'm handing out bowls of ice cream, and that this is the only thing I do, besides talk endlessly to little girls about concepts. Are you actually stupid? I mean, really? Are you unable to read and decipher?
I brought in "Right thing Right" and all that from a non-soccer world, simply as a means of explaining to little girls why they should be developing their left foot, because as you may or may not know, players have a tendency to work mainly on their strengths, not their weaknesses. I found it to be a breakthrough, something they were able to grasp. It's not rocket science, and it allowed me to discuss in very simple terms decision making and why they should be working on technical aspects with young, house level players. So, yeah...I'm pretty damn sure it's not something all of the top players in Central America are taught, not explicitly, anyhow. But, if you have ever discussed with a player why exactly they should be developing their weaknesses, and why they should take one touch and shoot (either hit it or place it, I don't want you to over analyse that one) the ball with the foot that lines up, instead of taking one extra touch to play to your stronger foot, then you've taught "Right thing Right vs. Wrong thing Right". You are welcome, I revolutionized the concept, you see, just nobody knows it yet.
Then I give them ice cream EVERY TIME THEY DO SOMETHING RIGHT! I have the fattest teams, every year, as a result (this was sarcasm: "the use of words that mean the opposite of what you really want to say especially in order to insult someone, to show irritation, or to be funny).
Yes, I am choosing to dismiss all your comments...or trying to, anyhow. I really am trying to completely ignore you, because I think you are crackers. I think you actually think YOU are revolutionary, and you think you are the FIRST PERSON to even think of something as crazy as, say, passing a ball into the back of a net instead of blasting it. You actually think this.
You are a bit of a crackpot. A fcukwit. This is me trying to dismiss you. See how this works?
There must be an "ignore" feature on this site. Regs? I've never used it before, but this will be my first time.
I brought in "Right thing Right" and all that from a non-soccer world, simply as a means of explaining to little girls why they should be developing their left foot, because as you may or may not know, players have a tendency to work mainly on their strengths, not their weaknesses. I found it to be a breakthrough, something they were able to grasp. It's not rocket science, and it allowed me to discuss in very simple terms decision making and why they should be working on technical aspects with young, house level players. So, yeah...I'm pretty damn sure it's not something all of the top players in Central America are taught, not explicitly, anyhow. But, if you have ever discussed with a player why exactly they should be developing their weaknesses, and why they should take one touch and shoot (either hit it or place it, I don't want you to over analyse that one) the ball with the foot that lines up, instead of taking one extra touch to play to your stronger foot, then you've taught "Right thing Right vs. Wrong thing Right". You are welcome, I revolutionized the concept, you see, just nobody knows it yet.
Then I give them ice cream EVERY TIME THEY DO SOMETHING RIGHT! I have the fattest teams, every year, as a result (this was sarcasm: "the use of words that mean the opposite of what you really want to say especially in order to insult someone, to show irritation, or to be funny).
Yes, I am choosing to dismiss all your comments...or trying to, anyhow. I really am trying to completely ignore you, because I think you are crackers. I think you actually think YOU are revolutionary, and you think you are the FIRST PERSON to even think of something as crazy as, say, passing a ball into the back of a net instead of blasting it. You actually think this.
You are a bit of a crackpot. A fcukwit. This is me trying to dismiss you. See how this works?
There must be an "ignore" feature on this site. Regs? I've never used it before, but this will be my first time.
See Due this where the problem is, one coach trying to set the other coach to go nuts. Both guys are doing same thing and that is, coaching kids to have fun and learn skill. Some kids have drive to do better,some have athletic ability and some come to Park to be with their friends.
The problem here is not so much coaching. The problem here is we have youth programs but have no paying League to go to.
There-for we just pay board hard heads to tell all what to do. I would call that tail is ahead of head and you know what smells more.
Set the Pro League and than put in all the rest. Nothing is more important, along all that kids and grown-ups like to play just house soccer nothing wrong with that.
Dude you are helping and coaching hat off to you. Soccer Coach people here have no soccer Leader that truly thinks of our kids and Canada . Most think of their little groups and how to make $100.00 bucks off of each kid. Your best bet is to find two hundred guys that are willing to put in each 40 000 grand for a LTD team and enter NASL. After that you will be able to set all the levels all the way to Bronze where Dude coaches.
Fighting each other here only makes will knots grow.
Do you think Victor and Canadian Soccer cares. NFW or we would have head a league here years ago. Playing golf is more fun than to go and waste time with them guys. Do something about it or get out. We do not need youth coaches we need System here. As I said watch out what watering hole you go if you cross AF.
The problem here is not so much coaching. The problem here is we have youth programs but have no paying League to go to.
There-for we just pay board hard heads to tell all what to do. I would call that tail is ahead of head and you know what smells more.
Set the Pro League and than put in all the rest. Nothing is more important, along all that kids and grown-ups like to play just house soccer nothing wrong with that.
Dude you are helping and coaching hat off to you. Soccer Coach people here have no soccer Leader that truly thinks of our kids and Canada . Most think of their little groups and how to make $100.00 bucks off of each kid. Your best bet is to find two hundred guys that are willing to put in each 40 000 grand for a LTD team and enter NASL. After that you will be able to set all the levels all the way to Bronze where Dude coaches.
Fighting each other here only makes will knots grow.
Do you think Victor and Canadian Soccer cares. NFW or we would have head a league here years ago. Playing golf is more fun than to go and waste time with them guys. Do something about it or get out. We do not need youth coaches we need System here. As I said watch out what watering hole you go if you cross AF.
Soccer Coach
Well-Known Member
Dude,
Once again. Try to concentrate on the concepts and ideas and do not concentrate on the person. I will help you.
One last time, the issue that you are not understanding is that many sports, but more certainly in futbol. There are no absolutes. What might "right" for one player might not be "right" for another player in exactly the same place and moment of the game. Let alone in another situations. To put in your jargon: "You are thinking that you can find an OPTIMAL or best decision when you are only considering one or two variables, when in the game players are dealing with a lot of variables.
As you stated:
"Right thing Right vs. Wrong thing Right". You are welcome, I revolutionized the concept, you see, just nobody knows it yet.
This is precisely the type of training and thinking that later on makes Canadian players look robotic or without imagination or creativity (as the Mexican press stated).
Your little girls might be better of just playing for fun without giving all these superfluos information that means nothing to them other than developing a distorted and limiting view of the game. Let them explore on their own. Sooner of later kids find the answers that best work for their bodies, intellectual understanding of the game at the time, and their maturity and emotional level.
I guess just ignoring this comment, but for the other coaches is just encourage reflection. Try to see the Mexico-Canada game and make connections between both teams and the methods that we use to develop players. As I mentioned, by 11/12 our Canadian boys are significantly behind than the Mexicans kids.
Once again. Try to concentrate on the concepts and ideas and do not concentrate on the person. I will help you.
One last time, the issue that you are not understanding is that many sports, but more certainly in futbol. There are no absolutes. What might "right" for one player might not be "right" for another player in exactly the same place and moment of the game. Let alone in another situations. To put in your jargon: "You are thinking that you can find an OPTIMAL or best decision when you are only considering one or two variables, when in the game players are dealing with a lot of variables.
As you stated:
"Right thing Right vs. Wrong thing Right". You are welcome, I revolutionized the concept, you see, just nobody knows it yet.
This is precisely the type of training and thinking that later on makes Canadian players look robotic or without imagination or creativity (as the Mexican press stated).
Your little girls might be better of just playing for fun without giving all these superfluos information that means nothing to them other than developing a distorted and limiting view of the game. Let them explore on their own. Sooner of later kids find the answers that best work for their bodies, intellectual understanding of the game at the time, and their maturity and emotional level.
I guess just ignoring this comment, but for the other coaches is just encourage reflection. Try to see the Mexico-Canada game and make connections between both teams and the methods that we use to develop players. As I mentioned, by 11/12 our Canadian boys are significantly behind than the Mexicans kids.
I mean at this point we have to realize soccer Coach is just taking the piss here. I mean you do understand people have kids playing 2-3 times a week here. They can't just put a ball down and let them be free to solve problems. Like mexican youngsters playing four hours on sandy pitches day after day. 3/4 of the players wont touch the ball and will quit. Especially at the level Dude is coaching.
Also how many Mexican youngsters have iPhones and iPads, hockey gear, mountain bikes and so on. This isn't the game people grow up thinking all I want to do is play on the Canadian national team.
Also how many Mexican youngsters have iPhones and iPads, hockey gear, mountain bikes and so on. This isn't the game people grow up thinking all I want to do is play on the Canadian national team.
Bull many do but doors are closed. You know better than that. Bronze soccer is div 8 soccer level. 1. Caps Acadamy is div one 2. HPL 3. MSL 4. Gold level 5. Gold 2 level 6. Silver one level 7. Silver two level and 8. Bronze level . Local boards hide the levels just so kids and parents do not get upset.
Talented kids with no money never get a chance. It just cost way much for them to play. Caps take twenty guys, rest are left out.
Canada soccer must change or we will never reach top level. It is not lack of players, it is not due to lack of good coaches, it's simply no development good enough after youth level. Player must draw wages to be able to play or he or she has to quit and play local club league soccer.
Soccer coach knows what he is talking about but he will never get anywhere here with pointing fingers at top guys.
You know it, it's not what you know here, but who do you know.
People get little coaching papers from BC and they think the now know how to coach kids. It takes over ten years for a coach to know how to develop each kid to their best ability.
We do that and than kids have no place to play, what does all that mean. To me step one is a Pro teams across Canada. Youth clubs under their umbrella.
In five year we will be able to kick Mexican arses or any other country. Canada must have at least 8 NASL sides.
Simply by having 160 players to from a best team at each level for National play. How can you put a team from guys all over the world. Not possible as you can see.
Vick and Tony do try along with Benito but net result is not good enough due to lack of skilled talent.
Talented kids with no money never get a chance. It just cost way much for them to play. Caps take twenty guys, rest are left out.
Canada soccer must change or we will never reach top level. It is not lack of players, it is not due to lack of good coaches, it's simply no development good enough after youth level. Player must draw wages to be able to play or he or she has to quit and play local club league soccer.
Soccer coach knows what he is talking about but he will never get anywhere here with pointing fingers at top guys.
You know it, it's not what you know here, but who do you know.
People get little coaching papers from BC and they think the now know how to coach kids. It takes over ten years for a coach to know how to develop each kid to their best ability.
We do that and than kids have no place to play, what does all that mean. To me step one is a Pro teams across Canada. Youth clubs under their umbrella.
In five year we will be able to kick Mexican arses or any other country. Canada must have at least 8 NASL sides.
Simply by having 160 players to from a best team at each level for National play. How can you put a team from guys all over the world. Not possible as you can see.
Vick and Tony do try along with Benito but net result is not good enough due to lack of skilled talent.
If I were to pick out the two biggest deficiencies, it'd be:
1. Lack of a CSL style Domestic Professional League.
2. Our Pay-more-to-play-higher system.
#2 especially gets my fires burning. I hear soccer people (especially) justify the cost escalation by saying, “Well, that’s how it’s done in hockey???!!!”.
That’s a fcuking rubbish argument.
The MLS ≠ the NHL, in terms of pay scale. And, that’s, I think, where we have to be realists…sure, we want Canadians playing in the top leagues in the world, but before that, we want a significant number of Canadians playing professionally domestically, and that would be in a new domestic pro league, and MLS. We all know the current struggle of players getting their time in MLS, so…
Gifted Canadian athletes that invest (or, who’s parents invest) in their son to make it in a pro career in hockey have so many levels where they can justify the pay-back. If not the NHL, then the AHL. Or Europe. I have a cousin who spent his whole pro career in Italy and Germany after being cut from the Minnesota North Stars in his first pro camp. He was deemed too small for the show. Went to Italy, eventually got citizenship, played in 3 Olympics, made a lot of money, and now is retired, and managing a rink back in Minnesota where he played for Deluth. And he owns houses in Italy, Germany, and the US. Not bad for a kid who couldn’t make it. Why did he make it? Gifted, great athlete, sure, but also his Canadian lineage in hockey opened doors.
In soccer, we are on the exact opposite end of that scale. Our players don’t have doors opened for them, they need to kick them down. All we are doing now, with this ridiculous pay-to-play system is discouraging the better athletes from playing at the highest levels. Some simply stay in the lower divisions, some switch sports altogether. It’s at about U12 where they need to choose either hockey or soccer. For my son’s age, many kids played both up till U12, certainly the more athletic kids. Of all of them, and I’d say I knew of about 20, only 2 picked soccer, and of those, only one is actually playing HPL now. One. The rest picked hockey. It’s not now just about time commitment- which is considerable- but it’s about costs. It’s a double edged sword that works against soccer. Think about it, if your son is gifted in hockey, he’s going to get more opportunities and more pathways into career opportunities. Rosters are bigger, opportunities to see ice at the highest levels more achievable due to hockey being a game that rolls lines, and once they are of junior age, there are several paths open to you to which you can aim your talents.
Not soccer.
There are fewer pathways (basically, one: MLS via NCAA, or MLS residency), and the battle to get time as a starting 1st team player more difficult. That being said, if your son is 12, and this is the path you’ve chosen (soccer instead of hockey, or baseball, or basketball…hell, we haven’t even discussed those sports, which are currently employing more Canadians professionally than soccer), your costs to play now drastically escalate, as clubs insist on academies, and use those academies to identify and eventually place players into various levels of rep. From Rep, if you are Div. 1, you now have the chance to play metro, maybe HPL. If you are so fortunate to make the cut for HPL, your costs again just up dramatically, AND your franchise will insist you shelve all other sporting activities, per your contract with them (on the last, I’m going by 3rd party info, I’m told that’s how it is, but I haven’t actually seen one of these contracts).
If Canada soccer is serious, they need to subsidize the HPL programs, and make it more enticing for the best players to actually choose to play soccer over hockey. That means convincing the parents it’s worthwhile sticking with soccer, and yes, finances play a massive role in this equation. With the ones that can afford hockey but still find the financial burden difficult, having a subsidized high performance pathway for soccer WILL be enticing. There is no doubt. Not all decisions like this in a household are based on the kid’s preferred choice, they are more often than not influenced by the parents, and right now, if you think logically, there is no real incentive for a parent to direct their child into soccer over something like hockey (or, any of the other sports…I’ve lost two to rep volleyball this year because those girls have showed proficiency and will be chasing NCAA scholarships).
What I’m not here to do is beat up on the people we have within the system, and the jobs they do. The clubs are handcuffed by the system the CSA has set-up. Our club (Surrey United), I have to say, is as good as it gets inside this system. We have high quality people both on administrative and the development side. Jeff Clarke, for what I’m told he's paid, is worth every penny. The administrative staff (of whom I think most are volunteer, if not all) do a thankless, difficult job, and do it well. The coaches under Jeff, guys like @Ballbaby, @heanjob, and many others are footballers who’ve dedicated the time to be the best coaches they can be, up to speed on the latest methods.
As Canadians, we need to develop our own culture. Somebody pointed out the culture amongst kids, and there is truth to that. I’m dating myself (42 YO), but when I was between 8-14, I always had a ball. Either at school in the yard, or playing pig against the wall, or walking home from school, or WALKING to practice (we walked, weren’t driven everywhere). Always a ball. I had a brick wall in my backyard that I’d destroy my soccer balls on (yes RF, ironic that my feet have somehow adopted the shape and structure of those bricks) And I’d say most of us of that age were the same that way. Sure, later on girls became more of a priority, but a ball was never far from our feet. I’d say that the video game / internet culture has absolutely dented that free outside play time, for sure.
There is nothing we can do to quickly change that culture. The less affluent countries will always have an advantage that way, due to dollars. But I will argue that passion can also influence culture, and that takes time. We develop passion through exposure to the game, either playing, or attending games. I am a firm believer in that the Canada / Mexico match here definitely lit a fire in people, and in kids. I’m a firm believer that the Women’s WC here did the same for girls and boys alike. And remember, we aren’t the only affluent country on the planet struggling with the culture, all that have affluence are, to some extent. The kids all have the plethora of choices in front of them, and even if they are Italian, and have the advantage of growing up in a country where soccer is #1, they are bombarded with the same outside influences that pull them away from the game, just like young hockey players here, that would rather be inside playing a video game than outside playing road hockey.
I guess what I’m saying, the big deficiencies are obvious, and if we as a soccer nation focus on correcting those large deficiencies, and correcting things inside our control, then in time, the rest will start to follow. I’m not going to beat-up on the people we have in the game; we have good people, smart people, and experienced people. Sure guys like Clarke has not seen the top leagues, but he was a solid North American professional, and you see that professionalism in everything he does. There are a lot of Jeff Clarkes, Steve Kindels, Ballbays, Heanjobs, Steve Millars, etc. around these parts to lead the next generation. I have no concern about that part of the leadership, it’s the model that they are handcuffed to that I have a problem with.
1. Lack of a CSL style Domestic Professional League.
2. Our Pay-more-to-play-higher system.
#2 especially gets my fires burning. I hear soccer people (especially) justify the cost escalation by saying, “Well, that’s how it’s done in hockey???!!!”.
That’s a fcuking rubbish argument.
The MLS ≠ the NHL, in terms of pay scale. And, that’s, I think, where we have to be realists…sure, we want Canadians playing in the top leagues in the world, but before that, we want a significant number of Canadians playing professionally domestically, and that would be in a new domestic pro league, and MLS. We all know the current struggle of players getting their time in MLS, so…
Gifted Canadian athletes that invest (or, who’s parents invest) in their son to make it in a pro career in hockey have so many levels where they can justify the pay-back. If not the NHL, then the AHL. Or Europe. I have a cousin who spent his whole pro career in Italy and Germany after being cut from the Minnesota North Stars in his first pro camp. He was deemed too small for the show. Went to Italy, eventually got citizenship, played in 3 Olympics, made a lot of money, and now is retired, and managing a rink back in Minnesota where he played for Deluth. And he owns houses in Italy, Germany, and the US. Not bad for a kid who couldn’t make it. Why did he make it? Gifted, great athlete, sure, but also his Canadian lineage in hockey opened doors.
In soccer, we are on the exact opposite end of that scale. Our players don’t have doors opened for them, they need to kick them down. All we are doing now, with this ridiculous pay-to-play system is discouraging the better athletes from playing at the highest levels. Some simply stay in the lower divisions, some switch sports altogether. It’s at about U12 where they need to choose either hockey or soccer. For my son’s age, many kids played both up till U12, certainly the more athletic kids. Of all of them, and I’d say I knew of about 20, only 2 picked soccer, and of those, only one is actually playing HPL now. One. The rest picked hockey. It’s not now just about time commitment- which is considerable- but it’s about costs. It’s a double edged sword that works against soccer. Think about it, if your son is gifted in hockey, he’s going to get more opportunities and more pathways into career opportunities. Rosters are bigger, opportunities to see ice at the highest levels more achievable due to hockey being a game that rolls lines, and once they are of junior age, there are several paths open to you to which you can aim your talents.
Not soccer.
There are fewer pathways (basically, one: MLS via NCAA, or MLS residency), and the battle to get time as a starting 1st team player more difficult. That being said, if your son is 12, and this is the path you’ve chosen (soccer instead of hockey, or baseball, or basketball…hell, we haven’t even discussed those sports, which are currently employing more Canadians professionally than soccer), your costs to play now drastically escalate, as clubs insist on academies, and use those academies to identify and eventually place players into various levels of rep. From Rep, if you are Div. 1, you now have the chance to play metro, maybe HPL. If you are so fortunate to make the cut for HPL, your costs again just up dramatically, AND your franchise will insist you shelve all other sporting activities, per your contract with them (on the last, I’m going by 3rd party info, I’m told that’s how it is, but I haven’t actually seen one of these contracts).
If Canada soccer is serious, they need to subsidize the HPL programs, and make it more enticing for the best players to actually choose to play soccer over hockey. That means convincing the parents it’s worthwhile sticking with soccer, and yes, finances play a massive role in this equation. With the ones that can afford hockey but still find the financial burden difficult, having a subsidized high performance pathway for soccer WILL be enticing. There is no doubt. Not all decisions like this in a household are based on the kid’s preferred choice, they are more often than not influenced by the parents, and right now, if you think logically, there is no real incentive for a parent to direct their child into soccer over something like hockey (or, any of the other sports…I’ve lost two to rep volleyball this year because those girls have showed proficiency and will be chasing NCAA scholarships).
What I’m not here to do is beat up on the people we have within the system, and the jobs they do. The clubs are handcuffed by the system the CSA has set-up. Our club (Surrey United), I have to say, is as good as it gets inside this system. We have high quality people both on administrative and the development side. Jeff Clarke, for what I’m told he's paid, is worth every penny. The administrative staff (of whom I think most are volunteer, if not all) do a thankless, difficult job, and do it well. The coaches under Jeff, guys like @Ballbaby, @heanjob, and many others are footballers who’ve dedicated the time to be the best coaches they can be, up to speed on the latest methods.
As Canadians, we need to develop our own culture. Somebody pointed out the culture amongst kids, and there is truth to that. I’m dating myself (42 YO), but when I was between 8-14, I always had a ball. Either at school in the yard, or playing pig against the wall, or walking home from school, or WALKING to practice (we walked, weren’t driven everywhere). Always a ball. I had a brick wall in my backyard that I’d destroy my soccer balls on (yes RF, ironic that my feet have somehow adopted the shape and structure of those bricks) And I’d say most of us of that age were the same that way. Sure, later on girls became more of a priority, but a ball was never far from our feet. I’d say that the video game / internet culture has absolutely dented that free outside play time, for sure.
There is nothing we can do to quickly change that culture. The less affluent countries will always have an advantage that way, due to dollars. But I will argue that passion can also influence culture, and that takes time. We develop passion through exposure to the game, either playing, or attending games. I am a firm believer in that the Canada / Mexico match here definitely lit a fire in people, and in kids. I’m a firm believer that the Women’s WC here did the same for girls and boys alike. And remember, we aren’t the only affluent country on the planet struggling with the culture, all that have affluence are, to some extent. The kids all have the plethora of choices in front of them, and even if they are Italian, and have the advantage of growing up in a country where soccer is #1, they are bombarded with the same outside influences that pull them away from the game, just like young hockey players here, that would rather be inside playing a video game than outside playing road hockey.
I guess what I’m saying, the big deficiencies are obvious, and if we as a soccer nation focus on correcting those large deficiencies, and correcting things inside our control, then in time, the rest will start to follow. I’m not going to beat-up on the people we have in the game; we have good people, smart people, and experienced people. Sure guys like Clarke has not seen the top leagues, but he was a solid North American professional, and you see that professionalism in everything he does. There are a lot of Jeff Clarkes, Steve Kindels, Ballbays, Heanjobs, Steve Millars, etc. around these parts to lead the next generation. I have no concern about that part of the leadership, it’s the model that they are handcuffed to that I have a problem with.
There are a lot of Jeff Clarkes, Steve Kindels, Ballbays, Heanjobs, Steve Millars, etc. around these parts to lead the next generation. I have no concern about that part of the leadership, it’s the model that they are handcuffed to that I have a problem with.
Agree with everything you say Dude except for the comment about HJ - he has no clue
And for what it's worth I simply don't read anything that SC has to say - it's absolute garbage. I truly hope they get promoted so the likes of Marcus / Lion can absolutely paste Athletico next year Div 1
Agree with everything you say Dude except for the comment about HJ - he has no clue
And for what it's worth I simply don't read anything that SC has to say - it's absolute garbage. I truly hope they get promoted so the likes of Marcus / Lion can absolutely paste Athletico next year Div 1
Dude. So well said. Hit it perfectly.
It will take some passionate folk to change the culture around the sport. One day at a time.
We just have so many that have the "it's amateur soccer in Canada" attitude and brush it off their shoulder.
Why not push to be better?
Why not push to structure things right and copy the Surrey U's and Metro Ford clubs etc.
The left over players and parents from hockey sometimes don't have that extra edge and push we all want to see in this game we love.
Mediocracy is not ok. Let's do it better.
I have a lot of people that have the attitude that say "you won't change much, it's Canadian soccer"
But with that attitude where will we ever get?
Imagine we all had that thought.
In a nut shell that is the overall vibe from a non soccer passionate guy.
It's soccer, so what.
I hate it.
You bring that attitude in anything in life and of course nothing will change for the better.
Anyways. You nailed it on so many levels.
My boys I'm sure will play both hockey and soccer. Or at least I will provide them the opportunity. And at age 12 or so it will be their choice. But your right, with the nicely manicured pathways of hockey, how could a kid choose soccer over hockey in Canada?
Starts with the grass roots at the club level. Have goals for the kids, make them want to want to play for the first team. How many u15 kids are watching the first team on the weekend? What is a u15's goal other then NCAA or college?
Is it a joke to want or dream to play for the clubs first team? It's time we put our local top soccer on a pedestal and sell it rather then mock it.
Cause our top local players play VMSL premier and most don't get paid they are "amateur". If their was money in the game lots of these guys would be getting paid and would be called pro.
Either way it's the same level. Different word.
One makes it cool! The other makes it beer league. But seriously what's the diff?
Was the stacked paid poco team amateur or pro?
Let's put the game we love on a pedestal and push for better on all levels. The "laughing" at local "amateur" soccer thing will have us spinning our wheels forever.
Half of metro Ford and westvan would be "pro" if we had money invested in a westcoast pro league.
Anyways. I always mean to write a few lines and then write a chapter. I could go on. But like you. I'm busy.
It will take some passionate folk to change the culture around the sport. One day at a time.
We just have so many that have the "it's amateur soccer in Canada" attitude and brush it off their shoulder.
Why not push to be better?
Why not push to structure things right and copy the Surrey U's and Metro Ford clubs etc.
The left over players and parents from hockey sometimes don't have that extra edge and push we all want to see in this game we love.
Mediocracy is not ok. Let's do it better.
I have a lot of people that have the attitude that say "you won't change much, it's Canadian soccer"
But with that attitude where will we ever get?
Imagine we all had that thought.
In a nut shell that is the overall vibe from a non soccer passionate guy.
It's soccer, so what.
I hate it.
You bring that attitude in anything in life and of course nothing will change for the better.
Anyways. You nailed it on so many levels.
My boys I'm sure will play both hockey and soccer. Or at least I will provide them the opportunity. And at age 12 or so it will be their choice. But your right, with the nicely manicured pathways of hockey, how could a kid choose soccer over hockey in Canada?
Starts with the grass roots at the club level. Have goals for the kids, make them want to want to play for the first team. How many u15 kids are watching the first team on the weekend? What is a u15's goal other then NCAA or college?
Is it a joke to want or dream to play for the clubs first team? It's time we put our local top soccer on a pedestal and sell it rather then mock it.
Cause our top local players play VMSL premier and most don't get paid they are "amateur". If their was money in the game lots of these guys would be getting paid and would be called pro.
Either way it's the same level. Different word.
One makes it cool! The other makes it beer league. But seriously what's the diff?
Was the stacked paid poco team amateur or pro?
Let's put the game we love on a pedestal and push for better on all levels. The "laughing" at local "amateur" soccer thing will have us spinning our wheels forever.
Half of metro Ford and westvan would be "pro" if we had money invested in a westcoast pro league.
Anyways. I always mean to write a few lines and then write a chapter. I could go on. But like you. I'm busy.
Lion you make me laugh with VMSL players as Pro players. VMS is div four to div five world soccer level, dam far from Pro soccer. Dude pointed out Miller Kindel and Clark as leading coaches. My man they are years from coaching high levels. If he meant Miller from FC Edmonton or Dasovic from HPL mountain program than OK even at that FC Edmonton is a bottom team in NASl. Kids those guys coach can not even make FC Edmonton that should tell you bit more about it. It is kids from Caps resident program moving to NASL sides.
Pro clubs practice four times a week plus a game. Most kids her play three sports at the same time. It has to be total attention to one sport or it just does not work out.
This country is just like that Fifa governing body and new president full of crooks making money on kids paying no tax. They do not want changes as long as they make money.
It will take one or two rich business men to start Canadian Pro League or work with NASL to better the development here.
Good place to start would be Victoria, Saskatoon,Kamloops ,Quibec City, Halifax, Hamilton,St John, FC edmonton an Ottawa are there in full development mode.
Pro clubs practice four times a week plus a game. Most kids her play three sports at the same time. It has to be total attention to one sport or it just does not work out.
This country is just like that Fifa governing body and new president full of crooks making money on kids paying no tax. They do not want changes as long as they make money.
It will take one or two rich business men to start Canadian Pro League or work with NASL to better the development here.
Good place to start would be Victoria, Saskatoon,Kamloops ,Quibec City, Halifax, Hamilton,St John, FC edmonton an Ottawa are there in full development mode.
Base point is. You laugh at the local best players. But if we did have a local few pro teams, Where would these players come from?
Yes overall against the rest of the world you can keep laughing at our coaches and players. But we have to start somewhere no?
So if we did have these business men with money that made a few local pro teams, now they are training multiple times a week. Now the money is there, now they are pro. Done. Now they can dedicate their time to the game and not be in school, work full time, etc etc.
Point being, you want locals to get the opportunities and we need a local pro league. So who is on this team? Your telling me a handful of guys from westvan and metro fords of the VMSL wouldn't make it?
Basso wouldn't have a go with the stats and goals he has in Uni and local top level?
The WFC2 guy that plays with them, (forget name) wouldn't make the team?
Again, if everything we have local sucks and not on the world level, is you laughing at it helping? Coaches are not good enough? Players aren't good enough? It's Canada soccer right? Laughable? So what's the point in trying then?
VMSL is not pro. But if we had pro, who would be the pros? The best local men playing right? Where do all our top players go after their NCAA or Uni days are done?
Where? There is no pro league, so where are they playing ?
Where are the pros to fill this domestic pro league?
Yes overall against the rest of the world you can keep laughing at our coaches and players. But we have to start somewhere no?
So if we did have these business men with money that made a few local pro teams, now they are training multiple times a week. Now the money is there, now they are pro. Done. Now they can dedicate their time to the game and not be in school, work full time, etc etc.
Point being, you want locals to get the opportunities and we need a local pro league. So who is on this team? Your telling me a handful of guys from westvan and metro fords of the VMSL wouldn't make it?
Basso wouldn't have a go with the stats and goals he has in Uni and local top level?
The WFC2 guy that plays with them, (forget name) wouldn't make the team?
Again, if everything we have local sucks and not on the world level, is you laughing at it helping? Coaches are not good enough? Players aren't good enough? It's Canada soccer right? Laughable? So what's the point in trying then?
VMSL is not pro. But if we had pro, who would be the pros? The best local men playing right? Where do all our top players go after their NCAA or Uni days are done?
Where? There is no pro league, so where are they playing ?
Where are the pros to fill this domestic pro league?
cascadesoccer
Well-Known Member
Mic drop indeed.
@Base, from one side of your mouth you praise a lot of local guys, from the other, you completely disparage it.
Is playing div. 3, 4, or 5 in the UK Professional or not?
If it is, and if the VMSL is considered equivalent to Div. 4, and maybe a local USL (or future CSL) div. 3/2, and MLS div. 2 or 1, then, I fail to see your point?
It is what we have here, and as Lion says, embrace it, because really, it's not that bad, it's pretty good, for a bunch of guys playing for free, or even paying to play.
Base, I really don't get what the point was of you picking apart guys like Clark and Millar. Honestly, what does that accomplish? These guys are directing amateur development, and especially in the case of Surrey United, you can't say the club is doing a poor job of achieving their mandate. I don't think either guy right now is aiming for higher, rather, trying to perfect what they have been mandated to do.
You have had your tongue buried up Dasovic's ass for as long as you've been on TTP. Fcuking buried. Is he even coaching right now? Last gig I saw he was directing @knvb's all stars. Come on.
Seriously, man...sometimes you write some eye opening stuff, and others, you go completely off the rails. It's like waiting for two personalities to show up, so I'm curious as to which will respond to this post? Jeckle or Hyde?
cascadesoccer
Well-Known Member
Another quality post, so good.
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