Canada MNT: Road to 2018

[stoned wall+]

I have a question for you soccer coach. If you truly want Canada to produce better quality soccer players and you have all the answers, why are you not using your great knowledge to coach a youth soccer team? Why are you wasting all your talents on a men's shitty amateur team? You sit behind a keyboard and insult all these people who are trying to make a change and a difference and yet you sit on your fat ass and waste your so called answers to all of Canada's soccer problems and do nothing constructive about it. ( yes I called you a fat ass because I am making assumptions about you just like you are doing to everyone else on this site)
So maybe if you aren't ready to back up all your talk by volunteering your time to give back to the kids and helping with the problem then maybe you should shut your fat condescending ass up and stop insulting the people who are actually willing to go out and try to figure out how to fix the problem in their free time!
If you are going to talk the talk then walk the walk!

 

[Dude]

This were you are wrong my friend. The poor in the world do not have formal or professional coaches. They can barely afford food let alone a coach. They play on the streets and then later a parent donates some money for uniforms and go to play in semi organized games. It is until later that kids are scouted and more formal training starts with more experienced coaches.

I don't know why I'm so hung up on you.

I need to point something out- Bulljive is NOT wrong. He is bang on right, when discussing the Canadian dilemma. It's the same topic we've been on about for years, but most recently @LION slammed home to you.

Canada's wealth and opportunity is both our blessing and curse when is comes to soccer.

You are also bang on correct: in poverty stricken countries, there are no organized leagues for 5 year olds. Yes, the game is played on the streets, in courtyards, on beaches, on crappy makeshift fields like the one you portrayed in that clip. Everything you say is correct, and all that is due to the economical situation those people find themselves in. They don't have nearly the amount of distractions our kids have, or structured lifestyles. Yes, they have responsibility- frankly, responsibility to their families that would break the spirit of our own kids- but they aren't burdened by the same culture of "schedules" we are here.

Everything is structured and organized here, because we've created that into our society though strong socialist endeavors. Impoverished countries obviously have not.

Kids tend to "play free" a lot more in 3rd world countries, not like here, where mom has to make a play-date with little Johnny.

Bulljive is bang on correct, so are you, but you are talking apples and oranges.

Which is part of the issue we have in Canada. Not only is the game itself not inbred naturally into our culture, but distractions are. Our wealth and political freedoms have meant kids are bombarded with opportunity on many different angles, they have many choices, including the opportunity to pursue and focus on a top education, which obviously most kids from most corners of our planet do not have.

I've been there, I've seen it, I've stopped off at small villages in Central and South America to throw out new soccer balls. The kids go nuts for them.

What you feel we need to do can't be created, we are, as a society, too far gone to create the same culture you accuse us of trying to avoid. The exact opposite is true. We are trying to take kids whom do not have an innate love for the game, and pass it along. To foster it.

Hey, if every kid came to us with a love for the game, and having grown up in the culture, coaching would be easy. That's not the case. It may be FOR YOU, that you have players coming to you whom have grown up in it. We don't. So, what we try to do is get them to fall in love with the game before they move on from us.

Anyhow, I am done trying to explain things to you that you clearly both have no respect for, and an unwillingness to understand. This isn't about small sided games and free play, what you "want" is a culture that simply doesn't exist.

 

[TulioMaravilha]

At the risk of throwing gasoline in the fire, my two cents on this pointless discussion, and I'll try not to write a book about it.
I do share a common background with SC in the sense that I came recently from somewhere where football is THE established sport (Brazil) and yes I do observe things in our environment that I think are, to say the least, detrimental to the development of the game here to a higher level. The parent-coach model is not a recipe for success especially with the typical low level of familiarity with the sport to be found in the well-meaning volunteers, the game is too structured from an early age, the game is typically played at a tempo that is at odds with the ability of the players and it looks rushed at all levels (including the WCaps), etc. etc.
Where we depart is that because I have been around as a parent and crappy player in the local system, I know very well that there are tons of people that were born and raised here that see exactly the same things as me (us) and that do their best with what they have to change this. And my friend SC, that's because because these, maybe few, guys do KNOW AND LOVE THE GAME.
As for the development path thing, let's not perpetuate a idealized view of what happens elsewhere. I can only really talk about Brazil and Portugal but I'll bet that it's the same everywhere. Yes, kids in Brazil do kick a ball for fun since they start to walk and mostly receive no coaching when they are little (BTW, it's been changing a lot and becoming a lot more like here, you know). Heck, although my dad did kick the ball around with me I can't remember him ever showing me how to do it and I definitely didn't bother correcting my son when we lived in Brazil. However, 99% of the ones that will become professionals are taken by the clubs into their system at an early age (used to be U13, now somewhat earlier) and from that point on it's structured coaching all the way up. For every Garrincha that came out of nowhere as a man we have a zillion others (including Pele and Neymar) that were playing for a club since their early teens. And as for the freedom to express themselves, Garrincha the most free-spirit of all had many detractors in Brazil (and that's in the 60's) because of the way he played. Culturally, we do appreciate skill and allow/want our players to showcase it. That is, if the guy is a forward because people in Brazil still expect defenders to be there just to boot the ball out of danger and kick the legs of the other team's skilled attacker. Don't get me started with how little people appreciate Dani Alves...But I digress.
Both my sons were raised and played in the system here. Both of them were exposed to the youth levels of BIG professional clubs in Brazil (Sao Paulo FC) and Portugal (SL Benfica, Sporting CP). I saw nothing there so much different that what they got from the good coaches here (at Roman Tulis, TSS, and, yes at the clubs). DJones, Ballbaby, among others, had a part in their development and I'm grateful for it. Last time they were abroad to train, the recruiting guy in Sporting's Alcochete Training Centre and their age group coaches were both clear that they'd have a chance if they chose to pursue a professional career in Portugal. If both will be playing collegiate ball in the fall (one in the CIS, the other NCAA Div 1) that's our choice because in this country there are other paths to take and one doesn't have to look at football as the only way to get a better life. And as I told the one that still wants to be a footballer (albeit I was the first to admit that it will be a lot more difficult), if he still wants it Europe will always be there after he gets his degree.
So, from my vantage point the system here may be flawed but their coaches certainly didn't fail them (and, yes, I picked and chose for whom my boys played, I'm not saying everyone's good here, or for that matter south of the equator) and maybe if Canada had more of these KNOWLEDGEABLE guys around and in positions of power it wouldn't be tying with Azerbaijan and I could hope of ever watching them play in a World Cup.

 

[Soccer Coach]

I don't know why I'm so hung up on you.

I need to point something out- Bulljive is NOT wrong. He is bang on right, when discussing the Canadian dilemma. It's the same topic we've been on about for years, but most recently @LION slammed home to you.

Canada's wealth and opportunity is both our blessing and curse when is comes to soccer.

You are also bang on correct: in poverty stricken countries, there are no organized leagues for 5 year olds. Yes, the game is played on the streets, in courtyards, on beaches, on crappy makeshift fields like the one you portrayed in that clip. Everything you say is correct, and all that is due to the economical situation those people find themselves in. They don't have nearly the amount of distractions our kids have, or structured lifestyles. Yes, they have responsibility- frankly, responsibility to their families that would break the spirit of our own kids- but they aren't burdened by the same culture of "schedules" we are here.

Everything is structured and organized here, because we've created that into our society though strong socialist endeavors. Impoverished countries obviously have not.

Kids tend to "play free" a lot more in 3rd world countries, not like here, where mom has to make a play-date with little Johnny.

Bulljive is bang on correct, so are you, but you are talking apples and oranges.

Which is part of the issue we have in Canada. Not only is the game itself not inbred naturally into our culture, but distractions are. Our wealth and political freedoms have meant kids are bombarded with opportunity on many different angles, they have many choices, including the opportunity to pursue and focus on a top education, which obviously most kids from most corners of our planet do not have.

I've been there, I've seen it, I've stopped off at small villages in Central and South America to throw out new soccer balls. The kids go nuts for them.

What you feel we need to do can't be created, we are, as a society, too far gone to create the same culture you accuse us of trying to avoid. The exact opposite is true. We are trying to take kids whom do not have an innate love for the game, and pass it along. To foster it.

Hey, if every kid came to us with a love for the game, and having grown up in the culture, coaching would be easy. That's not the case. It may be FOR YOU, that you have players coming to you whom have grown up in it. We don't. So, what we try to do is get them to fall in love with the game before they move on from us.

Anyhow, I am done trying to explain things to you that you clearly both have no respect for, and an unwillingness to understand. This isn't about small sided games and free play, what you "want" is a culture that simply doesn't exist.

Dude,
You are hung up on me because I am hitting hard your individual and collective unconscious. It is really not that hard to get you upset or others here in the TTP.
It is difficult to see Canada underperform. Canada once was an Olympic soccer champion and then we went downhill. How do we come to terms with this and cope with this massive failure? By creating archetypes and myths that help us cope with the harsh reality. I simply point out to those.

It also became very handy when it got to rally up the opposition as they would come all upset and got cards, fouls, etc, which made easier to win games (vast majority of cases)

I have offered you as a sign of peace that we go to watch a game at Commercial drive, or that you come to one of our practices.

However, perhaps it is time to have a soccer duel. I challenge you to a 1 v 1 game a month or so from know. If you win, I will not post here about Canadian soccer for a year. If I win, you will have to attend a month of my trainning sessions. We can change the outcome if you lose to something that you might find doable. Is this fair?



As for Tulio, I agree and perhaps I did not make clear. Once the kids reach the clubs, the training becomes very structured and regimented. However, there is still respect for the individuality and self expression of the player (at least in more cases).

As for the Canadian coaches, I obviously making reference to the vast majority. I have seen a few doing very good things. Some even at Silver and one even at Bronze!

As for the Brazil situation, perhaps the formant might seem same, but I can almost guarantee you that the underlying philosophical geist is different. The format might look the same. Granted that Brazil is changing as they are trying to sell players to Europe. Do not want to dwell to much in the controversies over the changes that Brazil have experienced in the last two decades (i.e. inability to produce strikers as before, Brazilians leaving to early, Dunga betraying the national style, the marginalization of players like Ganso (one of my favourites), etc. Perhaps we should start a new thread on this. I would prefer that we go back to Canada and tomorrows game.

 

[Dude]

@Soccer Coach,

In one month I have much bigger fish to fry, athletically speaking. If you've been following my R2S thread, you actually know this. Truly, there is no room in my life for soccer in the summer. I'm onto other things that, at this moment, have a far greater purpose in my life than going to commercial drive to take away your ball and never return it. Mainly, I got into this debate originally with you because of the disrespectful manner in which you wrote of ALL Canadian players and coaches in the game. It was disrespectful, and very degrading, then I completely lost my shite when you stated in on post:

1. You were a proud Canadian.
2. You would be cheering for Mexico in the WCQ matches.

I can't rationalize that.

What I can also not understand is your complete failure to DECIPHER the messages here. Yes, you can read, and you are obviously quite literate, whatever language is your first language, but you simply can't decipher the messages put in front of you. In your last post you state, "I obviously making reference to the vast majority. I have seen a few doing very good things.", yet, even when discussing me, personally, and my abilities as a coach, you become extremely condescending...then wonder why I turn right around and insult you. I.e.: the dumbest smart guy on TTP. You make these assumptions, again, without having ever seen me coach.

I'm not going to play you in a 1 vs. 1 match. First, this is a team game. I truly enjoy a good match, and if you want to set-up a friendly w/ your masters squad against ours in the fall, great. Secondly, I honestly fear I would hurt you in a 1 vs. 1 match. Yes, I'm wound up, and that would lead to me kicking you, then you would have something to sue me about. Do I actually fear you in a 1 vs. 1 match? No, but do I care enough to bother? No.

Nothing personal, Soccer Coach, but the fact is I've invested too much time on this site in allowing myself to get wound up by you. You honestly aren't worth it, not even a meeting over a cup of ice cream to shake hands and let bygones be bygones. You just wind me the fcuk up, so I need to get over it.

 

[club_i_champ]

I believe Canada just beat Uzbekistan 2-1...

 

[Soccer Coach]

I believe Canada just beat Uzbekistan 2-1...

Yes, Canada went ahead with a set piece and was later tied until an own goal gave Canada the win. Not very encouraging.

 

[Soccer Coach]

This is the own goal. Seriously. Why are we sending our national team to play teams like this?

 

[cascadesoccer]

I think Seth Blatter had money on this game.

 

[Gurps]

A win is a win...

 

[Dude]

Agreed that was a pretty gratuitous OG. No pressure.

But, break down the good things...

I'm not a fan of Piette, but I believe it was he who gathered the ball around our left side of centre field, played a nice ball into Hoilette. It was a nice pass (I’m sure one poster here in particular will disagree, but he’d also disagree with me if I made the obvious observation that snow is white), perfectly weighted and placed to the area Junior wanted it, on the outside.

Junior used his body well to shield, a little fake to freeze his defender, then a nice positive touch to turn past the fullback, who is now flat-footed and burned.

He then delivers a good cross in to a dangerous spot. That was some nice football by Junior in particular. The more he can do that, the more Canada SHOULD be able to score.

Many will say “he didn’t pick out a target”, but that’s not the full story. There is as much responsibility on the attacking players to follow the play and get to those spots as it is the passer to deliver the ball to a good spot. I don’t know who it was out on our right- Hume?- but he was obviously caught napping, and not “on”…which, to me, is the bigger problem, here.

We saw countless examples in the Mexico / Canada matches of guys checking out. So many more positive plays, like this one, can at least come to completion if they didn’t check-out, mentally, and they were switched onto the play at hand. This one was a very easy read, Hume could have done a far better job of contesting the cross and earn Canada a goal. As it was, we got lucky because the defender panicked. As you can see, the lads didn’t exactly take a great deal of pride in that play.

 

[Regs]

Yes, Canada went ahead with a set piece and was later tied until an own goal gave Canada the win. Not very encouraging.

This is the own goal. Seriously. Why are we sending our national team to play teams like this?

They are ranked #66 in the world which is better than us - I'll take the points that will go towards bettering our ranking which in turn helps our ranking within our region.

@Soccer Coach - which country did you immigrate here from?

 

[Dude]

However it came about, it was a positive result and 3 points.

 

[Soccer Coach]

They are ranked #66 in the world which is better than us - I'll take the points that will go towards bettering our ranking which in turn helps our ranking within our region.

@Soccer Coach - which country did you immigrate here from?

This is a good point @Regs . We got points from them. I have to be fair. Ubzequistan is on the rise. It was not a good game for Canada but they beat a team higher ranked. It is positive step.
How many times I have to explain. @soccercoach is an Internet persona. However, if you insist. Let's give it a place of birth. It is Belize and later grew up in the southern cone, and them moved to Italy to finally settle in Vancouver where he is dismayed by the soccer here. Many times we two or three people have conversations before we post here

 

[Regs]

Many times we two or three people have conversations before we post here

Account sharing is a no-no here.

If I read that wrong, please explain.

 

[Soccer Coach]

Account sharing is a no-no here.

If I read that wrong, please explain.

Okey. We understand. It was fun meanwhile it lasted. You can close the account.

 

[Regs]

 

[Regs]

FYI - I'll be emailing out our tickets for the 6th over the weekend!

 

[dezza]

If anyone ends up with an extra ticket in the TTP section let me know...

 

[Regs]

@dezza

Send me a private message, I have a single extra available right now.

Cheers,

Regs.