Div 2 [FVSL Div. 2] Promotion/Relegation Format 2005/2006

[Kevin Hector]

I agree with Bored and Dude on this one, when I was playing Hockey there was loads of differnt Divisions. You got to Bunraby 8rinks or to planet ice in Coquitlam, you have Div 1 one all the way down to Div 19, a team asked me to play Div 14. I told them to piss off, then I watched there game it wasn't any Different from Div2 at Maple Ridge planet Ice. they just have way to many teams, so who cares about a Div4 in the FVSL. you play soccer to have fun, if you are that worried about what level you play at get to the Gym and practise 6 days a week and get better if not then just play the damn game.

 

[Dude]

Mix. In. A. Period.


Or two.

 

[Kevin Hector]

Sorry I just fixed it I hope .

 

[Rangerforever]

How true, how very true.

I hate you.
You do realize that?



Bastage...

 

[STD]

I agree with Bored and Dude on this one, when I was playing Hockey there was loads of differnt Divisions. You got to Bunraby 8rinks or to planet ice in Coquitlam, you have Div 1 one all the way down to Div 19, a team asked me to play Div 14.

Playing div 15 Burnaby eight rinks right now. We prefer to call it either beginners hockey or third div from the bottom but never do we put an exact number on it.

 

[guru]

The purpose (as I understood it) for dropping 4th div. was to allow complete teams and teams from U21 who move to the mens league, a chance of being promoted rapidly to their own skill level. Right now if we made all div. a 10 team div, there would be a Div. 6. And each year more teams want to join.

Hector, the hockey thing is sorted at the beginning of each year with the first 4 games slotting teams into divisions based on how they did in that round robin. So you could be in Div 14 one year, then up to Div 2 the next.

I can't remember who brought it up, but having 20 teams in Div 2 and 30 in Div 3 would be fine, and 10 in each of the upper div. (Prem. and Div 1) The top team in each side of 2 goes up, and the bottom from 1 goes down. Each team in Div 2 EARNED that right to see how they'd do, and the bottom two in Div 1 stink anyway, so they deserve to go down, even for 1 year if they do well. Doesn't matter that they may be better than the teams that went up.... if that were the case, all 4 teams in that grey area are in a league of there own then.. in limbo between being able to compete in Div 1, and being the best of div 2.... each should have an opportunity to play where they've proven themselves to be.

The rule for promotion to div 1 now could shift to Div 3 promotion, and have the 30 teams down there. It's not a big enough deal at that level to have all the discussion about. But if you introduce a 4th and 5th div, a team coming out of youth will have to try and get promotion 5 times to play in Premier, even if they had the talent to go there. By that time they would likely disband. To make it fair to teams who want to advance together, (which builds strong clubs in the process) the less divisions the better.

I really don't think the stigma of playing div 5 or 6 is the issue, it's more about the promotion deal for teams that should be playing higher, but have to go through the formality to get to their level.

Say what you want about the way the league has set this up, but one thing's clear, they haven't just sat on this issue, they've at least tried to make it better over the past 5 years or so, tinkering with new ideas and formats. Remember 3 years ago when there was 21 teams in second, all in one group like in Europe. It didn't work as hoped, so they changed it the next year. Hopefully the board check in on this site and takes some of these ideas to their meetings. I'm sure they're open to any decent suggestion.

Guru For President!!!

 

[walls]

suggestion........

Guru For President!!!

of the recess committee....... who was first to the swings today

 

[Backline16]

You can solve the U-21 issue by allowing graduate sides to start in Div 3, with Div four being a sort of beer league. Therefore Div 2 would be solid as every team in it would have to be promted. Div 4 would be stable too, no hot shot young teams ripping the league to shreds every year. All this is necessary to bring Div 2 up to snuff, because right now it is too watered down.

 

[Kevin Hector]

Port Moody Gunners never had to play in Div3 they went straight into Div2( thats a good thing they would ahve scored 100+ and not let any goals in), from what I heard they tried to get in Div1 but the league put them in Div2 notaek is that right? I think they could have a Div4 with an unlimited number of teams 20 in Div3 20 in Div2 give the winners of U21 a spot in Div2 like backline16 said so they don't come in and kill every team each week, but most U21 teams should have a Cat or Prem Team that the top players would go to. does that make sense?

 

[Dude]

My eyes are bleeding over here, Kevin.

Flaw in your idea B16: with every U-21 team coming in directly to Div. 3, you'll need to drop one of those teams down to Div. 4. Otherwise, you'll have the same problem, in time, as you do now: an inflated, and artificial 2nd & 3rd divisions.

No, teams coming in should have to work up, unless they can broker a deal with a club who has a spot already.

 

[Kevin Hector]

Sorry Dude, I just my OFA level one first aid but I can't help the bleeding eyes, well I could if my grammer was better.

 

[Regs]

Why not call Div 4 the Gary Corr Division? In fact, dump all this Div 1/2/3 nonsense and bring back the old NHL division names!

 

[Dude]

See, there you go being funny again while we're trying to have a serious conversation. You're nothing but a has been VMSL snob, taking playing time from a legitimate FVSL old geezer.

Shaven, whack his pee pee.

 

[DJGMC]

Im not 100% positive becuase I have not seen all teams, but is there not enough solid teams in Div 2 for 20 teams ??

 

[bulljive]

No their is definitly not enough good teams too have a 20 team div.2. Two ideas could be 2 groups of 10 with the top team of each from each being promoted and the bottom 2 from div being relegated. Then possibly the second place teams could play each other with the winner playing a home and home against the eigth place team in div 1. Not a must too have the 2 second place teams play each other but a decent idea non the less a back door entrance and I know hoe wpople around here like the back door. Otherwise a 20 team division splt into top 6 with 5 games remaining. So everybody has a shot to play the top teams and gain major points. top 2 promoted 3rd place can go blow a goat. Problem with this is some teams could be playing the top teams up too 3 times while others may only have too do it once, a little confusing yes. I personally think div 3 and 4 could have 20 teams or whatever need be. premier, div1, and div 2 need to be as strong as possible everything below that who really cares if you are good enough you will get out. our team had too start in div 4, 3 years later we are in div 1 so its still possible in a relativly short period of time.

 

[guru]

No their is definitly not enough good teams too have a 20 team div.2. Two ideas could be 2 groups of 10 with the top team of each from each being promoted and the bottom 2 from div being relegated.

What's the point of this? Having a div 2 tiered is no different than adding a lower division, either way there is a promotion there.

There are enough decent teams in div 2 to warrant 2 X 10 team groups. The top and bottom will still have a gap, but you have that in any single 10 team group as well. If you dropped the bottom 3 teams in each group now, plus the next weakest, the others would hold there own. Obviously there would be a weakest team, which is why there is relegation in the first place.

It's a far cry going from div 4 to 1st, then from Div 6 or 7 to 1st.... add an extra 2 or 3 years to it, and by that time the players will be sick of getting hacked in the lower Divs, and move on, that's when decent teams split up.

To say there aren't enough good teams in div to to have 20 is the same logic as saying there aren't enough good teams to have 10 teams in Premier... there's always going to be weaker teams and strong teams... you can't have total parody all the time.

 

[shaven]

...you can't have total parody all the time.

Isn't that what Regs is for, with his weak attempts at humour?

I think you mean parity, oh wise one...

To weigh in on the debate, its my two cents that a 20 team Div. 2 would work, with either the rest in a two-table Div. 3 or a same-format Div. 3 plus the rest in a fourth Division, plus a U-21 division. I agree with the sentiment that teams should earn promotion up the divisions from U-21, however also agree that if they broker a swap into a higher division (no higher than Div. 2, as a limit) with a team within their club they may jump into the fray if they are believed to be good enough to compete there. Seems fairly straight forward, so why doesn't this get presented to the league?

Shaven, whack his pee pee.

I don't want to, as I don't know where it's been...I've never met Mrs. Regs

~Shaven

 

[Kevin Hector]

it's Parody jackass

 

[bulljive]

I didn't say the two groups would be tiered maybe it came out like that but I just said 2 groups of 10. the 2 winners would be promted too div 1 well the too second place teams from each group would play with the winner playing the 8th place team from div 1 in a home and home. I still think a 20 team div 2 would be pretty watered down but better then whats going on now. Honestly if you are struggling with the 5th place team in your division now how are you going to win in div 1. look at the gunners, lufc athletic,aldergrove undivided, Poco,dewndey, delta metro,royals, tigers, nationals. that is a strong 10 team division with any team very capable of beating another. sure you could add another 10 but why so you can have some easy games. I don't think there would be a huge difference in a group like this. a top 1 or 2 teams would probably emerge but everything else would be pretty tight. I don't think there would be teams sitting with 4 or 5 points at the end of the season.

 

[guru]

I think you mean parity, oh wise one...
~Shaven

I am ashamed....