Is BC Youth Soccer Okay? Apparently so...this year

[Captain Shamrock]

The CAT system should be a pool of really good talent that is just below the Premier level. It should benefit the rich, well developed, youth aligned teams who spend alot of time on their youth (MF, SU, SYSA, Burnaby, ICSF). Combined with the U-21 league, there should be huge pool of players elevating the level of play in the VMSL/FVSL Premier leagues. It should provide a great opportunity for young players to develop that we didn't have.It's not happening and I don't really know why. A lack of loyalty with these players maybe?

I don't think you can blame youth soccer on this lack of loyalty. I think it's now part of our pop culture. It's an attitude of "if I have to work and persevere, I'll move somewhere else were it's easier". If there wasn't anywhere else to go (restrictions of movement) then maybe they would have to persevere. Nobody would or should want a restriction of movement.

I honestly think it's a lack of competitiveness in public schools/minor sports and a failure of these institutions to reward high achievers.

In saying that, the youth teams compared to the rest of Canada, prove this theory wrong.

Maybe it's a combination of things? Opportunities away from the VMSL /FVSL (university/pro)? An end of real professional talent finishing their careers in the VMSL/FVSL (old NASL players)? BCSA not producing enough good talent?

Jonesy and others,

A lot of valid points made. To be honest, it is basically a bit of 'all of the above".

Combined with the U-21 league, there should be huge pool of players elevating the level of play in the VMSL/FVSL Premier leagues. It should provide a great opportunity for young players to develop that we didn't have.

I see the U-21 league as a league for players to come out of youth and just play. The best players out of youth should be playing at the university level and/or Premier level(whether it be in the Valley or Metro). If the U-21 system was used properly, then it would be beneficial but it is not. It should provide opportunities but it doesn't. The CAT system, as I have always said is a shambles. Only certain clubs can benefit from it and even then, it is minimal. The fact that there is no unlimited subs contradicts what the CAT league should stand for. Enough on that.

I honestly think it's a lack of competitiveness in public schools/minor sports and a failure of these institutions to reward high achievers.

I don't think the lack of competitiveness is limited to just the public school system. How many provincial championships have private/Catholic schools won lately in soccer? Even WRCA joined a public league because it would give them more competition. A lot of the 'problem' in high school soccer is that a lot of the coaches just don't take it that seriously. Personally, I enjoyh that more than anything. The girls know that and they react accordingly. We take things seriously but it is a different environment for some of the metro/provincial players because their fcuking coaches scare them half to death. That is a HUGE problem. Kids are afraid to make mistakes. Look at what happened with the U-14 girls team who just won the Nationals. I believe their coach was let go AFTER winning the B.C.'s because of the aforementioned. I hope I got that info right. If not, I apologize to the coach involved. I have kids who want to play for the school team but metro coaches say they shouldn't be playing school soccer because they might get hurt. Fcuking bollocks to that. In all the teams I have played for, I still remember my two years playing soccer for Richmond High. Friends played together but more importantly worked our asses off for each other and the school. There are too many DonaMara's out there now who think they are too big for the school, and the sad thing is, a lot of coaches let them get away with it.

Another issue is the so called BC School of Excellence. These arse holes are basically telling kids if they don't train there, they can kiss their chances of playing provincially AND nationally good-bye. Bollocks to that. You see a lot of the training programs(Roman Tulis/Brad Higgs/TSS) saying that they have developed this player and that player. Bunk to that. Every kid started somewhere and these places normally take the elite player. I would like to see more 'training centers' taking kids who aren't the elite players too. If this happened more often, the overall standard of play would improve over time. Cuts are made in metro/gold/school teams but that shouldn't mean that these other kids shouldn't get a chance to improve thier play to the best of the their ability. Personally, I enjoy the challenge of working with these type of kids because they are not robots.

Finally, there are a lot of players leaving high school right now who have a one goal and that is to play college/university soccer in the States. I can't blame them. Look at the money our local universities offer to play. It doesn't even cover 1/3 of their tuition now for most of them. When I went to UBC, we received a $1400 scholarship(all players), which basically paid for our tuition. It paid for my social life during the soccer seasonbut that is another story. Our local post-secondary institutions should do whatever they can to bring the best talent to them. Unfortunately, government dictates a lot of this too.

So, Jonesy, I don't know if I have answered any questions at all but I got to let loose on a little rant and I feel a bit better. BTW, when I retired this year, we should start our own soccer academy and we'll call it "The Left Foot Soccer Academy." Think about it, we only have to train left-footed players. Granted, I know your right foot is a BIT better than minerolleyes: ), but the possibilities are endless. There is no market for left-footers right now. Think about it, Jonesy.....The Left Feet Are Us Academy....


I must go have a wank now. Cheers.


Captain

PS - Sorry about any typos or spelling errors. I'm too lazy to check.

 

[cainy]

Loyalty vs egos

Great thread Jonesy. Most importantly in my opinion you need to have the right people in place, to bring on the younger players, and you need to have a club environment that all your players buy into. If egos get in the way and coaches are held ransom by first team players who throw a fit, or even worse undermine what your clubs goals are. ie... youth and development whilst still trying to win trophys, we are fighting a losing battle. I think everyone needs to grow up, check egos at the door, think beyond themselves, and look at a bigger picture. A very dificult task for sure but not impossible. If you have the right people in place who have a passion for the game, and the future of it, spending a lot of time promoting the goals of the "club" and getting guys to buy in, then you have the makings of a good start.

 

[djones]

An Example of Youth Progress!

Mariners are National Soccer Champs
By Ken Henry - KHenry@abbotsfordtimes.com

The under-18 Abbotsford Mariners will go down as the greatest team in the history of Canadian youth soccer.

The Mariners beat Ontario 2-1 in the National Cup Tournament that wrapped up on Monday, marking the second year in a row the Mariners have been national champs. It's the first time ever that has happened.

"Elated. Brilliant. Unbelievable," was all Barry Crocker, the club's technical director, could muster just minutes after the final whistle in Winnipeg. "We're putting Abbotsford on the map. Canadian soccer now knows about Abbotsford. Our program is being copied, being looked at by other people. We're becoming a club leader."

The Mariners opened the tournament with a 2-1 win over Manitoba and a 6-0 drubbing of Newfoundland. In the semifinal they beat Nova Scotia 5-2, setting up the final versus powerful Ontario. After falling behind 1-0 Chris Powell and captain Brad Peetoom scored to take the lead.

"It's awesome - two years in a row is just awesome," said Peetoom, as hollering and shouting in the background drowned out part of the interview. "You can tell we're happy," added Peetoom with a laugh.

Heading into the tournament the Mariners hadn't been together since May, when they qualified for nationals by winning the provincial title. Peetoom said gelling as a team wasn't a factor.

"We were a little shaky the first game [versus Manitoba] but we just got the ball rolling from there and it started to feel like old times," he said.

Peetoom - the captain of the team the last two years - and four other players are eligible to play in the U-18 league next year.

Crocker said a three-peat isn't out of the question.

"We have a realistic chance next year," he said. "For now we're going to savour this."


Good article but Ken made a huge error that needs to be corrected. PoCo Tigercats were and still are the greatest team in the History of Canadian youth soccer, right Smallsy?

Congrats to Barry, Franz, Alan and the Abbotsford boys. Good luck in the future! On to bigger and better things.

 

[Ballbaby]

Some great comments and most of us are on the same page. It's all about development and common goals. The players who have a passion for the game are most likely to develop. So, paramount should be the passion. The game needs to be fun with the level of emphasis on the technical aspects proportionate to the level of play, Gold, Silver, Bronze etc..

The ego problem exists a the House level as well as the Select levels. It can be quite difficult concentrating on development when the coach you are playing against relies on the "win at all costs" adage. It's a fine balance, as you need some wins to ensure that the players stay on course. It becomes difficult reminding 11 year olds that it is about development and not wins. It's funny, most of us on here are very competitive and have played the game at a high level. We know we can do things to ensure a win, especially when you are coaching against a pencil necked geek carrying a clipboard screaming at the top of his lungs. But no, we must stay the course and remember the big picture. My goal is to maximize each player's potential. If that means making a provincial team, great. It could also mean taking the ball wih the outside of the left foot and firing a shot into the goal. It all depends on each player. There are team goals and individual goals. They intertwine. My club backs me. My parents back me. The players have bought in.

Lot's of expertise so I will ask for some opinions:

Example of a dilemma I have this weekend. My sweeper is an exceptional athlete. Big, strong, highly skilled and very smart. He is a great kid. He also plays football and of course is his team's star player. For several months of the season, there are conflicts with soccer. He needs to make his football practises, playbooks and all. Last year, his soccer skills did suffer after he missed so many training sessions. This year, before the selection process of the team, I made the decision openly to all those trying out that I would not be selecting any Rep hockey players. This decision affected my own son. He needed to choose a sport. He can play house hockey, but not Rep. Why? I believe that our young players are getting stressed out. Managing schedules that are obscene. Homework. Afterschool sports. Rep soccer practises. Rep hockey practises. Way too much. I want dedicated players. It's easier for everyone. Understanding that they are still kids, I have made some exceptions; If there is a soccer game at the same time as a hockey game, or a football game, the soccer game takes priority. Those affected by this agreed. My sweeper is alllowed to miss one session a week, maybe two under some circumstances, knowing the football season is over in one more month. Finally the dilemma. Sorry about the rambling. This past weekend we played in a tournament and were two wins and zero losses after Day 1. That night, my sweeper phones me and says he is going to play football and will miss the first game. I asked to speak to his father who told me that he can not get him to change his mind. I reminded him about our agreement and that he is putting me in a precarious position as he is not the only player who has game conflicts this weekend. He told me to tell that to his son. I spoke again to his son. I stated that an agreement is an agreement but that I can not force him to play. I told him to expect consequences if he does not show up for game time. I told him that if he did show up to our game that he comes with the proper attitude or it will be a wasted day for all. If he did not show up for the game, and we were to make it to the final that he should not expect to play. These would be the consequences of his decision. We left it at that. I was certain that he would show up. I was wrong. We made it to the final and we lost a close game. I am certain we would have won if he was there. This weekend we play an excellent team and I am wondering if it would be wise to sit him. I think it would. He is a young player that needs to learn about team commitment. Really his father should have forced the issue but I think he thrives on the star treatment ghis son receives from the football team. I don't do that on my team.

I spoke to his dad and I told him that his son is an exceptional player and that he is in a position that he can take him to any team and any coach will die to have him at any cost. If he does not like my consequences that I deem suitable, that he may choose to do so. He assured me that this would not be he case. However, I sometimes wonder if I will be the one who forces this issue. Principles before anything else. This benefits the whole team but more importantly the player himself. Do I sit him the whole game this weekend? The agreement we made was crystal clear.

 

[knvb]

Pro's and Con's..

Pro: you stand by you teams agreements and show the other kids no matter who you are these are the rules they all agreed on and they're not for discussion.
Con: the kid and his dad think your a dick and quits.
Pro: the kid realizes you're right and helps along with him maturity and attitude towards his commitments.
Con: the kids think he's too good for this calls you a dick and quits.
Pro: the other kids know they have to make their choices and live with their consequences if they want to play Rep soccer for Ballbaby and Surrey United.
Con: they all think your a dick because you sat the star and they lose.

A very tough spot. I think the conversation needs to be had with the team before the game (because of their age) explaining... guys these are the rules we all agreed too and these are the consequences that come along with these types of decisions... that said here is my line up and Johnny Superstar is not starting. Either or it's a very tough spot for you and I would hate to be you for more than just this reason. What kind of kid he is will surley been shown by his choice in sport, attitude, and commitment after all this. I hope it for the better.

I say don't start him with the above conversation.

Good Luck and remember if it doesn't turn out you still have Mrs. Ballbaby.

 

[djones]

Captain,

Sounds good! We could corner the market, demand huge transfers for our players and make a bundle of dosh! Roberto Carlos could be our spokesperson! ......Ya...ya ...and we'd take over the national programs.... and world governing bodies and have them do things our way for a change.... we'd rid the world of divers and cheats and make them understand that.... too far, too far. I'm sorry! I got lost once again. Left footed academy....sounds good!

Ken,

I must apologize. I was the one that got it wrong. The PoCo Tigercats are the greatest team in the history of youth soccer in the universe! My bad!

Ballbaby,

If it's all about development, you sit him for most of the game explaining to him that this is the concequences for his decision after the game. He needs to understand commitment, loyalty, promises and concequences of actions.

If your team loses this weekend, do you miss Provincials? No.

Will he be pissed? You hope so and thus learns a lesson!

Will you uphold your end of the bargain? Without question!

Will the message get through? Crystal clear! It's all about development for not only soccer but also life!

Then comes the question of his and his parents loyalty.

We all have these problems where one or two of our better players are awesome players in other sports. I have a kid on my U11 Select team who I will definately lose to major junior hockey when he turns 15-16 years old (he's already being looked at and he's only 8). His parents are awesome and make sure that he sticks to his commitments and understands the consequences of missing games for each.

Sticking to your guns and being crystal clear is the only way to go. Hopefully the parents will understand and help in the explaination of the details. I am really lucky in the case with the set of parents I have for my two young teams.

One last thing:

To help in development, more players who've played at a competitive level, thus being naturally competitive coaches, need to be involved at the younger ages. In saying that, they need to leave their win at all cost attitude at home.

Too many competitive players don't get involved in house soccer because there is nothing to win and thus skill development and learning how the game should be played is being thrust upon parents who have never played the game and know very little about it. I hear all the time about a player I have played with or against in the past complain about the level of coaching that is his son or daughter is experiencing and how it's so painful to watch.

Then get involved! U-5 to U-11 is where players learn habits, good or bad, that will stay with them for the rest of their playing lives ( just look at the Captains right foot ). That's why they teach kids languages at an early age. They learn the most at this age.

Do they make U-5 to U-11 more competitive (like the good old days) to attract those coaches that have a more competitive background thus improving development?

 

[Dapotayto]

Ballbaby, you mentioned early on in your post that the focus should not be only on winning. You also said that one must keep in mind the big picture. Taking this into consideration and the fact that agreements have been made I don't feel the player should start.

 

[Ballbaby]

Dapotayto,

Agreed. I should have left out the fact we are playing an excellent team his weekend. I guess I was trying to illustrate that this would be a consideration for some coaches. It really is irrelevant to me other than it would emphasize my lesson to the team and individual player.

Although it is Metro Ford we are playing. Cue to Danny Jones.

I'm feeling better already. Who's gonna ruin it?

 

[djones]

Oh well then, the kid does even dress!

I've had the luxury of coaching quite a few of those kids at some point (Initiation Academy) and they are a great little team, I must say. The first year of MF's next golden generation, we think anyway.

If it was up to Neil and Dave, they would want you to play him but would totally back you on what you're doing! You're doing the right thing!

Time and place, please?

You have a great little team and it should be a great game, none the less. With three games this weekend, I'll try and make it out to it.

Cheers

 

[cerebral smallsy]

The PoCo Tigercats are the greatest team in the history of youth soccer in the universe! My bad!

really couldn't agree more Jonesy. unfortunately no national titles to speak of...chiasson and i are still trying though.
i would have responded earlier but i've been busy looking high and low for my mf under 17 training top.

 

[Captain Shamrock]

Ballsy,

Bench the kid. It's simple.


Jonesy,

We should try and put a team into a tourney in the near future(of course you would have to come out of retirement). We'll find a 'recreational' tourney and field a team of lefties. Right now on TTP, we would have No Right Peg(J. Levitt), Parkhead, Jonesy, Gaffa, and Captain Shamrock. If there are any other lefties, please post but make sure you stay on topic too. This is a good thread......


Thoughts?

 

[sensei_hanson]

I think Jonesy is so keen to reply to this thread because a) he started it and b) if any youth system has been raped and pillaged to the degree Metro-Ford has, one of their members would probably be chirping in just as frequently.

I suppose you can't really blame ICSF for nabbing good young quality players at the premier level, especially when their development system is hampered by the regional v. ethnic problem at the youth level. But it makes you wonder whether putting in hours, weeks and years of effort to groom young players within your club umbrella is really worth the effort. I know about MF's youth academy and their propensity to preach the values of club loyality and reward long-time members, but things have really changed. Once a kid graduates from youth soccer, the aura of playing for the senior team kinda takes a back seat to:

1) Playing post-secondary soccer (the lure of money, free education and hazing)
2) Playing time (which often means skipping the "earning your stripes" part of the program)
3) Success.

The third one basically means that kids are often lured by the sound of an easy route to glory. Doing what Marello did at ICSF - bringing in a variety of highly-skilled players - makes it a lot easier to recruit on the notion that "we've got a great group in place, excellent chance to win Provincials, you could be the missing link..."

No kid is really looking 5-10 years down the road and building a core group/unit who will eventually mesh into a competitive side capable of competing for provincial titles. Players jump ship with such regularity to either play with their mates, do the Karl Malone and try to sneak onto a championship squad, or go simply where they feel their individual interests will be served. You can play 5-6 years with the same group in youth soccer but once u-18 rolls around, you know most of your teammates won't be able to stick together in the same way they did through youth.

You can't stash a kid away on the u-21 and CAT teams because the system is so poorly run. You've got clubs who use the system accordingly and those who simply have teams in place because they're forced to. Thus, you've got lopsided scores and big differences between teams in terms of skill, player numbers and direction.

If the kid sees this, often times you'll see him jump ship to a team with playing time readily available. Aside from the 14 premier teams you've also got the div.1 sides like AFC who manage to convince themselves and all new players that they're simply a matter of months away from ruling the VMSL. Older players know the pitfalls of such situations but younger kids are naive in that regard and see a good situation that can only get better.

 

[bravedart]

BallBaby,

you have to stick to your guns. One player does not make a team and one player should not control a team.

If he leaves because he cannot accept what he agreed to then you will be better off for it in the long run.

Remember Hoosiers!

 

[cerebral smallsy]

If there are any other lefties, please post but make sure you stay on topic too.

i believe the "idiot" klaus is a lefty. so is sam of pocomo fame but he can't find the time to check out ttp.

to stay on topic, i still can't find my mf u-17 training top.

 

[J_B]

to stay on topic, i still can't find my mf u-17 training top.

Would you still be able to fit in it is the real question.



Cheers
JB

 

[john]

JB,

Yes it will still fit................he was a chubby kid

 

[Captain Shamrock]

Klaus is a lefty, eh? Very nice. Any others you can think of lads? Jonesy, check into possible tournaments, could you? Thanks.


Captain

 

[cerebral smallsy]

Yes it will still fit................he was a chubby kid

hi pot, this is kettle.

lads, you should really try and stay on topic. i believe the focus of this thread, if i'm not mistaken, is the Poco Tigercats rightful place in the Canadian soccer history and/or how to put out a fire with piss. feel free to continue discussing.

 

[Jinky]

I drink with my left (buffalo club). Does that count?

 

[sid]

Originally posted by Captain Shamrock
Ballsy,

Bench the kid. It's simple.


Jonesy,

We should try and put a team into a tourney in the near future(of course you would have to come out of retirement). We'll find a 'recreational' tourney and field a team of lefties. Right now on TTP, we would have No Right Peg(J. Levitt), Parkhead, Jonesy, Gaffa, and Captain Shamrock. If there are any other lefties, please post but make sure you stay on topic too. This is a good thread......


Thoughts?

KEVIN HEARNE ,CHRIS CLARKE,ARNIE MEERS ,SUITCASE SULLY

4 more captain for your all star lefties