Is BC Youth Soccer Okay? Apparently so...this year

[djones]

Here's how our youth teams did this year at Nationals. Not too shabby but (to be honest) quite expected.

Overall youth ranking: #1
Last year: tied for #1

British Columbia Gold: 4 Silver: 3 Bronze: 2
Alberta Gold 3 Silver 1 Bronze: 2
Ontario Gold: 2 Silver: 3 Bronze: 1
Quebec Silver: 2 Bronze: 4
Nova Scotia Gold: 1
Manitoba Bronze: 1

Under 14 Girls
Gold: British Columbia
Silver: Ontario
Bronze: Quebec

Under 14 Boys
Gold Ontario
Silver: British Columbia
Bronze: Quebec

Under 16 Girls
Gold: Alberta
Silver: Ontario
Bronze: British Columbia

Under 16 Boys
Gold: Ontario
Silver: British Columbia
Bronze: Quebec

Under 18 Girls
Gold: British Columbia
Silver: Alberta
Bronze: Ontario

Under 18 Boys
Gold: British Columbia
Silver: Ontario
Bronze: Quebec


FYI:

Challenge Cup (Men’s Senior)
Gold: Alberta
Silver: Quebec
Bronze: British Columbia

Jubilee Cup (Women’s Senior)
Gold: Nova Scotia
Silver: Quebec
Bronze: Alberta
5th: British Columbia

Classics (Women’s Over 35)
Gold: Alberta
Silver: British Columbia
Bronze: Manitoba

Masters (Men’s Over 35)
Gold: British Columbia
Silver: Quebec
Bronze: Alberta

Overall Ranking including Surrey's disappointment ( ) : #1

 

[Regs]

For the youth BC teams, what senior organisations do they "feed"? I know that the U-16 boys are SYSA Pegasus but what of the others?

Cheers,

~Regs.

 

[Sandman]

I saw the U-16 boys match at Newton. A very entertaining match that saw Ontario edge the Surrey Pegasus team 2-1. BC probably deserved better..........as they had several, many, tones, a lot of ample scoring chances that they couldn't convert. Some great talent on display.....and an enjoyable afternoon.

On a side note, I would be VERY surprised if that specific Surrey Peg team feeds the Peg VMSL team.........Not a knock on the SFC/Peg system, it's just that several factors come into play once these boys have graduated from the youth levels than simply what team they play for at the youth level.

Sandman

 

[Regs]

Sandman,

Without knowing the specific make-up of that team, if I was to take your comments and infer that they may end up in the Indo/Temple/GN/SUFC programs be a stretch?



Cheers,

~Regs.

 

[Sandman]

Regs,

Well infered

However, I think it is very difficult these days for the parent clubs to "keep and groom" their kids for senior club success. The Metro Ford situation is a prime example......Look at all the quality players that system has produced..........I am willing to bet that more of the better young players from Metro Ford are NOT calling Mundy #4 their home pitch. Again this is not a knock on the MF system, they probably have the best youth to senior program around..............but look all the difficulties they've had in securing and keeping their own players. It is almost impossible for a youth team to keep 7 or 8 of their core players and have them ALL take positions from established senior players..............it really is a fine line.

Sandman

 

[djones]

Sandman,

Your absolutely correct. In the past, Peg have benefitted by this exodus and now would have to be Inter. C'est la vie. A sign of success...I guess.

Hopefully, SYSA will have our problem with the best of those best going on to professional teams (Corrazin, Xausa, etc...) and the worst case scenario, off to Universities in the states. The more BC talent that goes abroad, the better for our programs.

I do question the loyalty of the young players these days. It just doesn't seem to be there. Even with the CAT teams, really good young talent won't stick around if their not only with the big team, but STARTING ahead of other, more experienced, better players. There is little respect for the players that are there or the club that nurtured them.

That's one thing that ethnic teams can draw from that others can't. Players are more inclined to represent their community than an association that they've played for (add Inter's name here). I wonder, Sandman, if you agree?

The clubs that I would look out for in the future (if these players would stay loyal) would be Burnaby and then Abbotsford (yes a Valley Association). Both have been doing a terrific job as of late.

BTW, congrats to the Fat bastard, Dom, and the Coquitlam City girls on their National title. Well done!

 

[Regs]

I do question the loyalty of the young players these days. It just doesn't seem to be there. Even with the CAT teams, really good young talent won't stick around if their not only with the big team, but STARTING ahead of other, more experienced, better players. There is little respect for the players that are there or the club that nurtured them.

Jonesy,

I've had that conversation with many the last couple of years and I think it is exactly why we are seeing a decline in quality play in the VMSL and why the CAT system is, seemingly, so slow to develop into what it is supposed to be (in theory).

Cheers,

~Regs.

 

[djones]

You could be right, Regs.

The CAT system should be a pool of really good talent that is just below the Premier level. It should benefit the rich, well developed, youth aligned teams who spend alot of time on their youth (MF, SU, SYSA, Burnaby, ICSF). Combined with the U-21 league, there should be huge pool of players elevating the level of play in the VMSL/FVSL Premier leagues. It should provide a great opportunity for young players to develop that we didn't have.It's not happening and I don't really know why. A lack of loyalty with these players maybe?

I don't think you can blame youth soccer on this lack of loyalty. I think it's now part of our pop culture. It's an attitude of "if I have to work and persevere, I'll move somewhere else were it's easier". If there wasn't anywhere else to go (restrictions of movement) then maybe they would have to persevere. Nobody would or should want a restriction of movement.

I honestly think it's a lack of competitiveness in public schools/minor sports and a failure of these institutions to reward high achievers.

In saying that, the youth teams compared to the rest of Canada, prove this theory wrong.

Maybe it's a combination of things? Opportunities away from the VMSL /FVSL (university/pro)? An end of real professional talent finishing their careers in the VMSL/FVSL (old NASL players)? BCSA not producing enough good talent?

Captain, anything to say?

 

[john]

Good topic..............

I can tell you first hand that a major problem are the coaches at the U21 and lower levels. They don't want to lose there top players to the parent teams as they wish to take the entire team into mens soccer as a group, instead of what has been purposed here. For that reason the talent level at the top has dropped with playes playing on past there best years and the young players development is stunted at the same time as they develop poor habits playing vs players well below them.

John

 

[bravedart]

John,

You have a very good point!

It is the coaches who are reluctant to let their players go and sit a game on the bench, and even play 10-20 minutes if their lucky, for the 1st team that are killing the development and commitment of these young players.

Some coaches need to understand that that in the grand scheme of things it is a strong 1st team that makes a strong club, not a strong U-21 team. If thier services are required for a game that matters then let the U-21 team go without (their game does not really count for anything anyways).

Also if clubs so want to try and keep their youth player loyal they should get in the practice of consistently bringing players up (not 3 per game mind you but maybe 3 per month). This way the young players can see that there is hope for them and it in turn increases the competitiveness on their own team for those 3 spots per month.

I do a lot of coaching on the womens side and am very proactive in pulling youth players up. Here I am more interested in getting the younger players U-15 to U-18 and in some cases U-14's into women's games. For one we can see with Kara Lang playing on a National team at 15 that the age factor is not quite significant as on the boys side. Secondly, if a 16 year old can play at the highest level possible (say premier) is it not in their best interest to do so. One of the problems with not playing youth soccer is that our evaluation system is not in place to deal youth players playing outside of the youth system. Christine Sinclaire was not allowed to participate in the College recruitment games staged every year because at the time she did not play youth soccer (is that a mistake or what). I personally know of a girl who at 14 decided to leave her metro team and become a starter on a womens team that won Nationals 2 years running. The youth team she left also won their national tournament last year and many of those players are on the current National team yet she was overlooked but plays at a consistently higher level of play.

Anyways I digress.

To recap,

John you have a very good point

 

[termatofylakas]

I think DJones hit the nail on the head by saying that players are not loyal and just because they don't get a shot right away some primadonna's think they can go elsewhere and start........John also has a good point regarding the youth coaches......instead of developing players and then shipping them to their senior teams and then continuing to develop they tend to hold on to them and continue which hurts them as many play in the lower divs and many stop because the competitiveness isn't there........everyone has brought up good points I just wish some people can help fix this problem slowly

 

[Jinky]

Champlain Keeper hit the nail on the head when he said DJones hit the nail on the head and he made a good point when he noted that John had made a good point.

 

[bravedart]

Jinky,

You state a very good argument

 

[termatofylakas]

ty jinky just couldn't add anything else to those good points

 

[Fat Bastard]

youth to senior

I was with Metro Ford back in the day, and watched a truckload of good players graduate from youth a go to other clubs. At the time the Wolves were legit BC contenders, and Tayside was solid and perhaps had an even more fixed roster. Of course, those were the days before the CAT system, so I don't know if I could blame guys like Clarke, Valente, and Oliveiro for passing on div.1 sides to go play for Peg or whomever. Same for Corazza. (Although, Andrew was lighting it up for the MF premier teams - Wolves and FVSL team - when he was still in youth. I think the kid actually led the FVSL while playing on a youth permit.)

The CAT system was supposed to clear all this up. I don't think its worked that well for all clubs. Firstly, you have to have cooperation within clubs - I don't think its there. The Burnaby Canadians had huge trouble with that last year - the coaches just didn't see eye to eye.

In women's football its a whole different ball of wax, as BD said. Firstly, very few senior teams have youth clubs supporting them ... UBC, Burnaby Canadians, Westside, Norvan, etc. Even Surrey and Coquitlam have very loose connections - at this point anyhow. And even the clubs that do have youth connections, there isn't any cooperation - North Shore, Langley Girls, SBAA. C'mon how can the North Shore not field a solid womens team when they have arguably the best girls youth progam this side of the CN Tower?

Further, with the girls, so many of them are getting to go away for school, so even if you do develop them as youth, you likely won't see them for four years, and if they do come back, the ties are probably broken.

Having been involved with women's soccer for the past decade, I can say that most teams operate in a vaccuum. A club system is like another language for some of these people. Coquitlam City is trying to change it, under Dom's direction, which was one of the reasons's they went after the Burnaby Canadian players. But even still, it's going to take a few years for them to really get it going in the right direction. On the women's / girl's side of it, there's going to have be a dramatic shift in the general way of thinking.

As for the men, who know why it hasn't worked? I thought CAT was brilliant. Tried to get into the MWSL - to no avail. Heaven forbid we move that league into the new millenium. But I would suggest that much of the problem on the men's side is EGO - club execs, coaches and players.

Cheers,
FB

I personally know of a girl who at 14 decided to leave her metro team and become a starter on a womens team that won Nationals 2 years running.

Bravedart ... If you're talking about Amy, you're bang on. Except we won nationals just once - we got fcuked over and had the second one taken from us. Thanks for bringing back the sour memories.

 

[Fat Bastard]

wow that was fcuking long winded ... sorry


cheers
FB

 

[termatofylakas]

Hey DJ may I ask what happened to Mike Rogers, Ryan Sturhan, Simon Postma and some other players in the metro ford system.......they should all be in their early 20's if you know them......I've played with them for a school year and have seen them play........what has happened to them because they were once promising players, I know Hebner is on the team at the moment but Mike and Ryan were better players back then....thanks

 

[termatofylakas]

another point that I have seen growing up and you hear from others is the politics involved........I remember a few teams I used to play on when younger the better players would get cut because the coach wanted his guys or his son to play........I hear some people still mention that.......hey DJ is there any way we can get someone like you to run this league and turn it into something better........we all need to unite and kick Azzi out to do that........you brought up some great ideas and I feel that if someone new is put in charge some things may get better or at least they will listen to suggestions

 

[djones]

Champlain's Keeper,

From last I can remember, being retired and all:

Mike Rogers - went and played with Sapp (?) a couple of years ago. I think his Dad use to be my grade 5 teacher.

Ryan Sturhahn - played last year with the Wolves "B". Was pushing his way into the first team.

Simon Postma - played the last two seasons with the Wolves "A" team and is in England on trial.

hey DJ is there any way we can get someone like you to run this league and turn it into something better........we all need to unite and kick Azzi out to do that........you brought up some great ideas and I feel that if someone new is put in charge some things may get better or at least they will listen to suggestions

I know only half of what Will does and I want nothing to do with what he has to do or put up with. As you see, it's a thankless job!

Thanks for the offer, though.

 

[Jinky]

Sometimes these teams aren't particularly loyal to their young prospects.

Look at Westside's Cerebral Smallsey.

Look at him.

He still wears his blue and black Metro Ford under-17s training top everywhere he goes and MF wouldn't piss on him if he was fire. Which sometimes happens.