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March Madness 2003
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sensei_hanson
New Member
Still a tad premature to put forth any picks. I'll do a fairly comprehensive recap when the time calls for it, so fear not.
sensei_hanson
New Member
howabout them Tar Heels?
I was so geeked at the massive UNC upset over the Dukies that I celebrated by playing 2+ hours of ball up at SFU. Which hasn't done much for my back or knees.
What a victory. First, the big skirmish resulting from the "innocent" chop Jones took at Ray Felton, which drew blood and got Jones completely open for a simple lay-in. Then Doherty comes onto the floor, starts running his gums (on a side note, this victory probably saved his job) and gets into it with Coach K's head muppet Chris Collins. Heated. Collins never should have gotten off Krzyzewski's lap in the first place. Then, Duke's professional 4-year benchwarmer Buckner jumps off his chair to bump Doherty. This could very well have been Buckner's most impressive and productive substitute performance in his Duke career. Donkey. This seemed to spur the Heels on as they rode McCants and Felton (McCants was two rebounds away from a triple-double) to victory. That last-second heave by Jones that fell through, but was released two-tenths of a second late, must have hurt the ol' Blue Devils faithful.
I'd say that going from 8-20 last season to 16-14 this season is a pretty good turnaround, especially for one of the youngest teams in the nation. Doubling his win total will probably save Doherty for at least next season, although bigger and better things will be expected. As for this year, the NCAA tourney isn't a stretch but it still doesn't look good with a 16-14 record. UNC will have to put up a couple more wins and go deep in the ACC tourney to have a sniff.
But at least they beat Duke. Comments or thoughts, Sandman?
-Sensei.
I was so geeked at the massive UNC upset over the Dukies that I celebrated by playing 2+ hours of ball up at SFU. Which hasn't done much for my back or knees.
What a victory. First, the big skirmish resulting from the "innocent" chop Jones took at Ray Felton, which drew blood and got Jones completely open for a simple lay-in. Then Doherty comes onto the floor, starts running his gums (on a side note, this victory probably saved his job) and gets into it with Coach K's head muppet Chris Collins. Heated. Collins never should have gotten off Krzyzewski's lap in the first place. Then, Duke's professional 4-year benchwarmer Buckner jumps off his chair to bump Doherty. This could very well have been Buckner's most impressive and productive substitute performance in his Duke career. Donkey. This seemed to spur the Heels on as they rode McCants and Felton (McCants was two rebounds away from a triple-double) to victory. That last-second heave by Jones that fell through, but was released two-tenths of a second late, must have hurt the ol' Blue Devils faithful.
I'd say that going from 8-20 last season to 16-14 this season is a pretty good turnaround, especially for one of the youngest teams in the nation. Doubling his win total will probably save Doherty for at least next season, although bigger and better things will be expected. As for this year, the NCAA tourney isn't a stretch but it still doesn't look good with a 16-14 record. UNC will have to put up a couple more wins and go deep in the ACC tourney to have a sniff.
But at least they beat Duke. Comments or thoughts, Sandman?
-Sensei.
Carolina/Duke
Exciting game at Chapel Hill...a little helter skelter.....both teams were not very sharp as Carolina and Duke shot somewhere at 37% and 40% from the field respectively. A few things:
-My beloved Dookies are lacking leadership this year. Dahntay Jones is too inconsistent. Chris Duhon has to step up come clutch time. He passed up on an open jumper with 2 minutes left when the Blue Devils needed a basket in the most desperate way. Not indicative of Duke teams of the past there was always a player or two who would step up.
-Saying that they are very young as they have 4 Freshmen and a sophmore in their 8 man rotation. That is why I laugh
when I hear people use the "how Carolina are so young" crutch.
-Doherty is not the right man for the job. I could only imagine what Dean Smith was thinking when Doherty was over at the Duke bench yelling profanities........not the Tar Heel way.
-I don't think there is an excuse under the moon that could explain how one of the most glorious programs in the US could be 8-20 one year and speak volumes about a 16-10 record.
"To double the win total from last year, I think that shows a lot about this team," Doherty said. "And again, this schedule is one of the toughest in the country."
-No shite Sherlock......Carolina has always had a tough schedule playing in the ACC as it should
I hope Carolina can build it's program to where it was before Doherty............it's more fun that way when Duke stuffs em
I hope Doherty can spell NIT
Sandman
PS: I'm off to Vegas in a couple of weeks I'll be there for the 1st and 2nd rounds........looking to make some money.....and looking forward to your Cinderellas, and sure bets!
Exciting game at Chapel Hill...a little helter skelter.....both teams were not very sharp as Carolina and Duke shot somewhere at 37% and 40% from the field respectively. A few things:
-My beloved Dookies are lacking leadership this year. Dahntay Jones is too inconsistent. Chris Duhon has to step up come clutch time. He passed up on an open jumper with 2 minutes left when the Blue Devils needed a basket in the most desperate way. Not indicative of Duke teams of the past there was always a player or two who would step up.
-Saying that they are very young as they have 4 Freshmen and a sophmore in their 8 man rotation. That is why I laugh
when I hear people use the "how Carolina are so young" crutch.-Doherty is not the right man for the job. I could only imagine what Dean Smith was thinking when Doherty was over at the Duke bench yelling profanities........not the Tar Heel way.
-I don't think there is an excuse under the moon that could explain how one of the most glorious programs in the US could be 8-20 one year and speak volumes about a 16-10 record.
"To double the win total from last year, I think that shows a lot about this team," Doherty said. "And again, this schedule is one of the toughest in the country."
-No shite Sherlock......Carolina has always had a tough schedule playing in the ACC as it should
I hope Carolina can build it's program to where it was before Doherty............it's more fun that way when Duke stuffs em
I hope Doherty can spell NIT
Sandman
PS: I'm off to Vegas in a couple of weeks I'll be there for the 1st and 2nd rounds........looking to make some money.....and looking forward to your Cinderellas, and sure bets!
sensei_hanson
New Member
Rebuttal.
I'll start from the bottom up. 8-20. Very true, an awful season for such a storied program. Very similar to what the Bruins are going through at UCLA this season. But you have to understand that the team lost Brendan Haywood and Joe Forte to the NBA, and lost Ronald Curry and Julius Peppers to football - you're behind the 8-ball right there, especially since the team wasn't overly deep at the time. The freshman class of the 8-20 team stunk (the only soph doing ANYTHING right now is Jawad Williams) - the "leadership" provided by Capel, Lang and Owens was brutal. It was an anomaly, that 8-20 season. Never should have happened, a black eye to the program really, but the rebuilding process had to be fast and immediate strides had to be shown. And it was obvious that the only way out was to recruit like hell and get some freshman talent in there, playing meaningful minutes.
So Doherty did that. The emphasis on this being such a young team stems from the fact that three of the team's four leading scorers - McCants (16.9), Felton (12.5) and May (12.1) are all freshmen. Aside from starring three freshmen, UNC also uses a 4th frosh, David Noel, for over 20 minutes per game.
Compare this with Duke, who has one freshman (Redick - 14.7) amongst three upper-classmen scorers in Jones (17.2), Ewing (11.2) and Duhon (9.3). You can see why the Tar Heel faithful are so keen on pimping the youth factor - it's all we have. At least in Jones and Sanders, you've got a couple of seniors who see some serious burn. UNC has only two seniors - Holmes and Johnson - who haven't even seen 200 minutes of action between them this season, and are the 10th and 13th leading scorers on the team.
Rotations. Duke goes with two seniors, one junior, one sophmore and four freshmen in their 8-man rotation. UNC goes with five freshmen and three sophmores in their 8-man rotation. I can list the players if you like.
As for Duhon. This guy is a bust. He had 11.2ppg last season as the 4th option behind Williams, Boozer and Dunleavy, and with those guys gone, his average drops to 9.3? What the hell is that? It's clear he was/is an effective role player who thrived playing alongside more talented players, and is incapable of carrying a team - a staple of traditional Duke standouts, as you mentioned.
Doherty...different kettle of fish, that guy. I can't say if I agree or disagree with his fiery style of coaching, but something must be said of turning around a pretty sad state of affairs in under a year. At least he understands the concept of "win now or go home". He coaches like his job is always on the line...which it is.
Best of luck in Vegas. An early darkhorse special is the Southern Illinois Salukis, who kicked around supposed NCAA cinderella/darkhorse Creighton in the Missouri Valley conference all year. They made some noise in the tourney last year, and could surprise for the first few rounds this year. Keep them in mind.
I'll start from the bottom up. 8-20. Very true, an awful season for such a storied program. Very similar to what the Bruins are going through at UCLA this season. But you have to understand that the team lost Brendan Haywood and Joe Forte to the NBA, and lost Ronald Curry and Julius Peppers to football - you're behind the 8-ball right there, especially since the team wasn't overly deep at the time. The freshman class of the 8-20 team stunk (the only soph doing ANYTHING right now is Jawad Williams) - the "leadership" provided by Capel, Lang and Owens was brutal. It was an anomaly, that 8-20 season. Never should have happened, a black eye to the program really, but the rebuilding process had to be fast and immediate strides had to be shown. And it was obvious that the only way out was to recruit like hell and get some freshman talent in there, playing meaningful minutes.
So Doherty did that. The emphasis on this being such a young team stems from the fact that three of the team's four leading scorers - McCants (16.9), Felton (12.5) and May (12.1) are all freshmen. Aside from starring three freshmen, UNC also uses a 4th frosh, David Noel, for over 20 minutes per game.
Compare this with Duke, who has one freshman (Redick - 14.7) amongst three upper-classmen scorers in Jones (17.2), Ewing (11.2) and Duhon (9.3). You can see why the Tar Heel faithful are so keen on pimping the youth factor - it's all we have. At least in Jones and Sanders, you've got a couple of seniors who see some serious burn. UNC has only two seniors - Holmes and Johnson - who haven't even seen 200 minutes of action between them this season, and are the 10th and 13th leading scorers on the team.
Rotations. Duke goes with two seniors, one junior, one sophmore and four freshmen in their 8-man rotation. UNC goes with five freshmen and three sophmores in their 8-man rotation. I can list the players if you like.
As for Duhon. This guy is a bust. He had 11.2ppg last season as the 4th option behind Williams, Boozer and Dunleavy, and with those guys gone, his average drops to 9.3? What the hell is that? It's clear he was/is an effective role player who thrived playing alongside more talented players, and is incapable of carrying a team - a staple of traditional Duke standouts, as you mentioned.
Doherty...different kettle of fish, that guy. I can't say if I agree or disagree with his fiery style of coaching, but something must be said of turning around a pretty sad state of affairs in under a year. At least he understands the concept of "win now or go home". He coaches like his job is always on the line...which it is.
Best of luck in Vegas. An early darkhorse special is the Southern Illinois Salukis, who kicked around supposed NCAA cinderella/darkhorse Creighton in the Missouri Valley conference all year. They made some noise in the tourney last year, and could surprise for the first few rounds this year. Keep them in mind.
sensei_hanson
New Member
oh yeah?
I've changed my tune...
Jermaine Dearman, the Saluki's star player. Note the corn-rows...not exactly a staple of the low-flying white man.
I've changed my tune...
Jermaine Dearman, the Saluki's star player. Note the corn-rows...not exactly a staple of the low-flying white man.
Sensei,
In the modern era of NCAA Basketball a program has to prepare for underclassmen leaving. It is more and more difficult for schools to be consistently good year in and year out. That is why schools like Kansas, Kentucky, Duke really impress me. North Carolina used to be on that list, and all I'm saying is that I hope they get back up there again, but I don't think Doherty is the guy to do it. How is it possible a school with the tradition of UNC can have a weak recruiting class. Even I'd be able to recruit for them. What distinguishes a first class program from a second rate one is:
-a respected coach
-strong recruiting
-not having all your talent in one class ie; all seniors or juniors
Not to wave the Duke flag again but Duke lost Elton Brandt, Corey Maggette, William Avery and Trajan Langdan all in one draft year. Result was winning a national championship. They lost underclassmen Williams, Boozer and Dunleavy and they are still a top ten school. That is why the players leaving arguement doesn't wash with me........it's simply expected these days.
Hopefully Doherty doesn't rely solely on his current crop of diaper dandies because some of them will leave early.
Sandman
PS; I'm on the Saluki's bandwagon.
In the modern era of NCAA Basketball a program has to prepare for underclassmen leaving. It is more and more difficult for schools to be consistently good year in and year out. That is why schools like Kansas, Kentucky, Duke really impress me. North Carolina used to be on that list, and all I'm saying is that I hope they get back up there again, but I don't think Doherty is the guy to do it. How is it possible a school with the tradition of UNC can have a weak recruiting class. Even I'd be able to recruit for them. What distinguishes a first class program from a second rate one is:
-a respected coach
-strong recruiting
-not having all your talent in one class ie; all seniors or juniors
Not to wave the Duke flag again but Duke lost Elton Brandt, Corey Maggette, William Avery and Trajan Langdan all in one draft year. Result was winning a national championship. They lost underclassmen Williams, Boozer and Dunleavy and they are still a top ten school. That is why the players leaving arguement doesn't wash with me........it's simply expected these days.
Hopefully Doherty doesn't rely solely on his current crop of diaper dandies because some of them will leave early.
Sandman
PS; I'm on the Saluki's bandwagon.
sensei_hanson
New Member
You can add Arizona to that list as well. Lute Olson has put together a brilliant program, arguably the best in the Pac-10 (what with UCLA going for a shite under Lavin).
Duke didn't win the national title after Avery, Brand, Maggette and Langdon jumped ship. They lost in the regional semis to Florida. It was the year after - when Williams, Boozer, Dunleavy and Battier all decided to stay in school - that they won the national title against 'Zona. I bring this up just for clarification's sake, because you make a good argument about the depth Duke displays year after year. No arguments about the strength of Duke recruiting.
Still, as far as lulls in the program go, you can look back to the 94-95 Duke team (13-18, no NCAA tourney) and the 95-96 team (18-13, no NCAA tourney) as a direct result of teams having a hangover after a very good group of players went to the NBA (this would be the departure of Grant Hill, Bobby Hurley and Christian Laettner). I'm of the mindset that every program, as storied as they might be, goes through a dark period. Kentucky had one, until Pitino came along and saved them. UCLA is in the midst of one. Kansas has been remarkably solid, but haven't been to a national championship since 1988. That'll be what most remember about Roy Williams, before all the Big 12 championships and consecutive winning records. Kansas can't win the big one.
Now, 8-20 is pretty dark, but the key is bouncing back with a strong season. Which UNC has done thus far. You can't have more than two seasons of rebuilding before fans, boosters and Athletic Directors get angry. Doherty's key will be to follow up with another strong freshman class, and pray that none of this year's frosh sensations jump to the NBA. If this happens, they'll be back at the top of the ACC again.
A side note - how much do you weigh in graduating players to the NBA as a mark of a good program? I'm not talking about one-year wonders either, a la Steph Marbury or DaJuan Wagner. Programs who consistently put good players in the league.
Duke didn't win the national title after Avery, Brand, Maggette and Langdon jumped ship. They lost in the regional semis to Florida. It was the year after - when Williams, Boozer, Dunleavy and Battier all decided to stay in school - that they won the national title against 'Zona. I bring this up just for clarification's sake, because you make a good argument about the depth Duke displays year after year. No arguments about the strength of Duke recruiting.
Still, as far as lulls in the program go, you can look back to the 94-95 Duke team (13-18, no NCAA tourney) and the 95-96 team (18-13, no NCAA tourney) as a direct result of teams having a hangover after a very good group of players went to the NBA (this would be the departure of Grant Hill, Bobby Hurley and Christian Laettner). I'm of the mindset that every program, as storied as they might be, goes through a dark period. Kentucky had one, until Pitino came along and saved them. UCLA is in the midst of one. Kansas has been remarkably solid, but haven't been to a national championship since 1988. That'll be what most remember about Roy Williams, before all the Big 12 championships and consecutive winning records. Kansas can't win the big one.
Now, 8-20 is pretty dark, but the key is bouncing back with a strong season. Which UNC has done thus far. You can't have more than two seasons of rebuilding before fans, boosters and Athletic Directors get angry. Doherty's key will be to follow up with another strong freshman class, and pray that none of this year's frosh sensations jump to the NBA. If this happens, they'll be back at the top of the ACC again.
A side note - how much do you weigh in graduating players to the NBA as a mark of a good program? I'm not talking about one-year wonders either, a la Steph Marbury or DaJuan Wagner. Programs who consistently put good players in the league.
See Ya!
Looks like Georgia's dream of an NCAA championship came to an early end this season.
Academic fraud, Ouch!
Harrick Gone.
ESPN.com - The Full Story Here
Looks like Georgia's dream of an NCAA championship came to an early end this season.
Academic fraud, Ouch!
Harrick Gone.
ESPN.com - The Full Story Here
Bobby Knight
Texas Tech coach Bob Knight has told athletics director Gerald Myers that he will not accept his salary for the 2002-2003 season because neither he nor his team have met his expectations, ESPN's Jay Bilas reports.
Knight told Myers that he was not satisfied that he had gotten the most out of his team, and wants the university to have the money back to use for some other purpose.
Knight, who has been discouraged all season with his team's play, says he has two responsibilities as coach: 1, To make sure that his players have the best opportunity to be successful, and 2, to get the most out of his team. He believes he didn't accomplish either of those tasks this season and therefore will not accept compensation.
Knight is in the second year of a five-year contract that reportedly pays him an average base salary of $250,000 a year.
ESPN.com news services
Texas Tech coach Bob Knight has told athletics director Gerald Myers that he will not accept his salary for the 2002-2003 season because neither he nor his team have met his expectations, ESPN's Jay Bilas reports.
Knight told Myers that he was not satisfied that he had gotten the most out of his team, and wants the university to have the money back to use for some other purpose.
Knight, who has been discouraged all season with his team's play, says he has two responsibilities as coach: 1, To make sure that his players have the best opportunity to be successful, and 2, to get the most out of his team. He believes he didn't accomplish either of those tasks this season and therefore will not accept compensation.
Knight is in the second year of a five-year contract that reportedly pays him an average base salary of $250,000 a year.
ESPN.com news services
Captain Shamrock
Well-Known Member
You've gotta love Bobby Knight. A quality and unique move from a quality and unique individual. As for your Southern Illinois Fighting Salukis, they do have a great name, Sensei. HOWEVER, beating Creighton was no great feat considering they had a little bit of a let down in the last game against the Bluejays....
Creighton 80 Southern Illinois 56
Creighton 85 Southern Illinois 76
Creighton 62 Southern Illinois 70
Of course, I am not doubting your knowledge, Sensei, but Southern Illinois will not be doing much in the tourney this year BECAUSE the conference is shoc-king.
I will post some dark horses when the tournament teams are selected. For now, I would like to nominate the Memphis Tigers as my first dark horse.....They have already lump-ed Cincy, beat Syracuse by 7, and have lost their five games by a combined 27 points, with one loss to Missouri being a 15 point loss. They look like a very athletic team, which can go 9 deep according to the stats of the team. I have been watching their progress and reading articles on them on the Internet but have not seen them play yet. I assume their NCAA sanctions are over now. If not, then this post should be considered moot
Creighton 80 Southern Illinois 56
Creighton 85 Southern Illinois 76
Creighton 62 Southern Illinois 70
Of course, I am not doubting your knowledge, Sensei, but Southern Illinois will not be doing much in the tourney this year BECAUSE the conference is shoc-king.
I will post some dark horses when the tournament teams are selected. For now, I would like to nominate the Memphis Tigers as my first dark horse.....They have already lump-ed Cincy, beat Syracuse by 7, and have lost their five games by a combined 27 points, with one loss to Missouri being a 15 point loss. They look like a very athletic team, which can go 9 deep according to the stats of the team. I have been watching their progress and reading articles on them on the Internet but have not seen them play yet. I assume their NCAA sanctions are over now. If not, then this post should be considered moot
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