March Madness 2003

[Sandman]

Sensei,

A couple of comments on your last post.......

Losing players like Brand, Maggette, Langdon, Avery, Dunleavy, Williams, Boozer and Battier, and having a National Championship, National Semi-Final and a Top Ten team during the same time period is remarkable. My sole point is the UNC has lost quality players as well, but a program of that calibre really has no excuse for doing so poorly.........I blame Doherty.

As for "hangovers"....

as far as lulls in the program go, you can look back to the 94-95 Duke team (13-18, no NCAA tourney) and the 95-96 team (18-13, no NCAA tourney) as a direct result of teams having a hangover after a very good group of players went to the NBA

Yes, I agree Duke had a setback after Grant Hill left in 94, but I have to correct you on not participating in "the tourney":
-94/95 team lost in the First Round to Eastern Michigan....I think
-95/96 team lost in the second round to Providence (remember God Shamgod)

That is what happens when Coaching comes into question. In 94/95 Coach K was on the sidelines part time due to an ailment and in 95/96 he took the year off after having hip replacement surgery. Since I am sure we both agree that a school is not expected to be in the Final Four every year. I am certain we can both agree that Duke University has not had any lulls!

On a side note.............

how much do you weigh in graduating players to the NBA as a mark of a good program? I'm not talking about one-year wonders either, a la Steph Marbury

I am a closet Gerogia Tech Fan........You'd be surprised but Georgia Tech has supplied the NBA with some pretty decent players:
Steph Marbury, Kenny Anderson, Travis Best, Dennis Scott, Matt Harpring, Denis Scott, John Salley , and too a lesser extent, Drew Barry, Tom Hammonds, Duane Ferrel, Brian Oliver and Dion Glover.......Bobby Cremins was one of my favorite coaches in the early 90's.

I can't wait till tournament time,
Sandman

PS; Captain's right Memphis Tigers could be HUGE surprise

 

[sensei_hanson]

I gotta get back up to school quick, so this'll seem brief. For me anyways.

I wasn't really saying that Geo-Tech hasn't produced many excellent ballplayers. Clearly, with your list to illustrate it, they have My point is that the program would really be stretching it if they claimed credit for making Stephon Marbury into an NBA star. If he had been born four years later and been in high-school amidst the "straight-outta-HS" craze, there is less of a chance he'd have even enrolled at Tech. This reminds me of Lefty Dreissel when he was at Maryland, listing Moses Malone as "Lefty's Players in the Pros" in the Maryland programme even though Moses didn't play a game for the Terps. He verbally committed to going there before shocking the basketball world and going pro. It's hard to take credit for players who ooze enough talent to make it on their own.

There are lots of other programs who don't mind rent-a-players at the collegiate level now. Mizzou did it DaJuan Wagner. Syracuse is doing it with Carmelo Anthony. Half the teams in the country would do as much for one year with LeBron James(yeah yeah, save Duke, coz Coach K went on the Jim Rome show and adamantly stated that he would NOT take LBJ for just a single season).

My point was, can you still take graduating players to the NBA as a sign as a quality program? Or is it all about the impact you make at the college level?

 

[sensei_hanson]

An article from NBA.com which fits into this discussion nicely....see which programs have the most players in the NBA today.

1. NORTH CAROLINA
PG - Jerry Stackhouse
SG - Vince Carter
SF - Michael Jordan
PF - Antawn Jamison
C - Rasheed Wallace

Bench: Hubert Davis, Joseph Forte, Rick Fox, Brendan Haywood, George Lynch, Jeff McInnis, Scott Williams, Shammond Williams

Injured: Eric Montross

Skinny: Five stars as starters? Proven vets like Fox, Lynch and McInnis off the bench? A backup at every position? What more do you want?


2. MICHIGAN
PG - Jamal Crawford
SG - Jalen Rose
SF - Glen Rice
PF - Juwan Howard
C - Chris Webber

Bench: Maceo Baston, Maurice Taylor, Robert Traylor
Injured: n/a

Skinny: Intimidating trio of Webber, Rose and Howard make this a tough team to vote against. Plus, Crawford is an underrated point guard. Lack of backcourt depth is only drawback.



3. KENTUCKY
PG - Tony Delk
SG - Derek Anderson
SF - Jamal Mashburn
PF - Antoine Walker
C - Jamaal Magloire

Bench: Walter McCarty, Ron Mercer, Scott Padgett, Tayshaun Prince

Injured: Nazr Mohammed, Mark Pope

Skinny: Mash and 'Toine are a devastating twosome, while Magloire can anchor the middle. Plus, very solid corps of role players in D.A., Mercer and McCarty.



4. CONNECTICUT
PG - Ray Allen
SG - Richard Hamilton
SF - Caron Butler
PF - Donyell Marshall
C - Cliff Robinson

Bench: Travis Knight, Kevin Ollie, Jake Voskuhl

Injured: n/a

Skinny: Allen has proven he can do everything since move to Seattle, so lack of point guard isn't a major concern. All five starters can score and rebound. Ollie is a solid PG off the bench.
Results: First round, beat Georgia Tech with 80.7% of 4,070 votes


5. DUKE
PG - Jay Williams
SG - Cory Maggette
SF - Shane Battier
PF - Elton Brand
C - Christian Laettner

Bench: Carlos Boozer, Mike Dunleavy Jr., Danny Ferry, Cherokee Parks

Injured: Grant Hill

Skinny: Brand is only star, although Maggette has been impressive this season. Very deep, solid squad. A healthy G-Hill could've pushed them over the top.


6. KANSAS
PG - Jacque Vaughn
SG - Paul Pierce
SF - Drew Gooden
PF - Raef LaFrentz
C - Greg Ostertag

Bench: Danny Manning

Injured: Scot Pollard

Skinny: Great balance and plenty of size. Pierce and Gooden would form excellent inside-outside punch. Not much depth, but could still play with anyone.


7. ARIZONA
PG - Gilbert Arenas
SG - Mike Bibby
SF - Jason Terry
PF - Richard Jefferson
C - Sean Rooks

Bench: Michael Dickerson, Steve Kerr, Chris Mills, Damon Stoudamire, Loren Woods

Injured: n/a

Skinny: Yes, they're undersized, and yes, they'd have to play three guards, but 'Cats would be absolutely deadly from the perimeter. Plus, they have size off the bench.


8. UCLA
PG - Baron Davis
SG - Reggie Miller
SF - Tracy Murray
PF - Jerome Moiso
C - Jelani McCoy

Bench: Dan Gadzuric, Earl Watson

Injured: n/a

Skinny: Backcourt would have to do all the scoring, but Baron and Reggie would be up to the task. Size is also a plus, as all three big men are legit defenders and rebounders. Watson is also underrated.


9. MICHIGAN STATE
PG - Eric Snow
SG - Jason Richardson
SF - Morris Peterson
PF - Zach Randolph
C - Kevin Willis

Bench: Steve Smith

Injured: Mateen Cleaves, Jamie Feick

Skinny: Great balance and athleticism. Randolph is really emerging as a solid four, and perimeter combo of Snow-Richardson-MoPete is potent. Could do some damage.


10. CALIFORNIA
PG - Jason Kidd
SG - Sean Lampley
SF - Shareef Abdur-Rahim
PF - Sean Marks
C - Michael Stewart

Bench: Jamal Sampson

Injured: Lamond Murray

Skinny: They don't have much behind the Kidd-'Reef combo, but if rest of team can defend and rebound, Golden Bears might have a chance. If Murray was healthy, this team would be deadly.


11. CINCINNATI
PG - Nick Van Exel
SG - Ruben Patterson
SF - Kenyon Martin
PF - Danny Fortson
C - Corie Blount

Bench: n/a

Injured: DerMarr Johnson

Skinny: Decent balance, and team would be led by solid one-two punch of Van Exel and K-Mart. Patterson and Fortson could also be big contributors. A competitive darkhorse.


12. MARYLAND
PG - Steve Francis
SG - Juan Dixon
SF - Walt Williams
PF - Lonny Baxter
C - Joe Smith

Bench: Tony Massenburg, Terence Morris, Chris Wilcox

Injured: n/a

Skinny: Not a bad mix of skill, speed, shooting and size. Any team with Francis is a threat to win. Smith also a solid interior defender. Solid squad.


13. GEORGIA TECH
PG - Stephon Marbury
SG - Jon Barry
SF - Dion Glover
PF - Matt Harpring
C - Jason Collier

Bench: Kenny Anderson, Travis Best

Injured: n/a

Skinny: Collier is actually on IL, but for sake of argument, he's
been activated. Backcourt is very solid, but lack of size could hurt. No problem scoring, however.


14. VILLANOVA
PG - Alvin Williams
SG - Kerry Kittles
SF - Tim Thomas
PF - Malik Allen
C - Michael Bradley

Bench: n/a

Injured: n/a

Skinny: Not spectacular, but very balanced. Solid team size. Rebounding and defense would be assets, but may have trouble scoring. Allen quietly becoming a decent four.


15. GEORGETOWN
PG - Allen Iverson
SG - Jerome Williams
SF - Othella Harrington
PF - Jahidi White
C - Dikembe Mutombo

Bench: n/a

Injured: Ruben Boumtje-Boumtje, Alonzo Mourning, Don Reid

Skinny: Yes, Deke is on the IL, but due to Hoyas having eight players on NBA rosters, they were included in the field of 16. Big problem in that there's no backcourt other than Iverson, but if the Answer gets hot ...


16. FRESNO STATE
PG - Rafer Alston
SG - Tito Maddox
SF - Courtney Alexander
PF - Chris Jefferies
C - Melvin Ely

Bench: n/a

Injured: Tremaine Fowlkes

Skinny: No stars, but some solid contributors here. Alston has contributed at point in Toronto, and Alexander can fill it up quickly. Ely has also emerged lately. Decent balance.

******

Other schools with five or more players:

Alabama: Jason Caffey, Robert Horry, Antonio McDyess (inj), Latrell Sprewell, Gerald Wallace

Notre Dame: LaPhonso Ellis, Pat Garrity, Ryan Humphrey (inj), Troy Murphy, Monty Williams

Stanford: Curtis Borchardt (inj), Jarron Collins (inj), Jason Collins, Casey Jacobsen, Brevin Knight, Mark Madsen

Temple: Rick Brunson (inj), Marc Jackson, Eddie Jones, Aaron McKie, Pepe Sanchez (inj)

 

[sensei_hanson]

..this just in

March Madness tourney selection complete. I don't have all the seedings, but the Salukis of Southern Illinois got the #11 seed in the Midwest. That puts them in a first round matchup with #6 Mizzou with the winner facing the victor from the #3 Marquette/#14 Holy Cross (14 is the highest seed I've ever seen for a Patriot League team, btw).

War Salukis.
-Sensei.

 

[One Dart]

Midwest

1 Kentucky
16 IUPUI

8 Oregon
9 Utah

5 Wisconsin
12 Weber St.

4 Dayton
13 Tulsa

6 Missouri
11 S. Illinois

3 Marquette
14 Holy Cross

7 Indiana
10 Alabama

2 Pitt
15 Wagner

 

[One Dart]

West

1 Arizona
16 Vermont

8 Cincinnati
9 Gonzaga

5 Notre Dame
12 Wisconsin-Milwaukee

4 Illinois
13 Western KY

6 Creighton
11 C. Michigan

3 Duke
14 Colorado State

7 Memphis
10 Arizona State

2 Kansas
15 Utah St.

 

[One Dart]

South


1 Texas
16 TX Southern/UNCA

8 LSU
9 Purdue

5 UConn
12 BYU

4 Stanford
13 San Diego

6 Maryland
11 UNCW

3 Xavier
14 Troy State

7 Michigan St.
10 Colorado

2 Florida
15 Sam Hou. St.

 

[One Dart]

East


1 Oklahoma
16 S.C. State

8 Cal
9 N.C. State

5 Miss. St.
12 Butler

4 Louisville
13 Austin Peay

6 OK State
11 Penn

3 Syracuse
14 Manhattan

7 St. Joe's
10 Auburn

2 Wake Forest
15 ETSU

 

[Dapotayto]

Sensei, will you be providing us with a detailed preview/analysis of the tournament? I have important questions that need answers. For example: What are Pitt's chances? How about Syracuse? Which team will 3-point bomb their way to the later stages? What is your final four prediction? Anyone play forty minutes of hell defense like the Razorbacks used to? Who is overrated? who is underrated? This is critical. I haven't watched any games all season and now I need info so I can look knowledgeable and impressive.

 

[sensei_hanson]

Thanks to OD for posting the brackets.

At first glance, I can tell you that Billy Donovan and his Gators are probably not all that keen on facing Michigan State or Colorado in the second round. The bottom half of the South bracket is chock full of tough teams - Maryland, Xavier, Florida, Michigan State and Colorado - you've got three teams who have been to the national final within the past three years right there.

I thought they'd give Duke a #2 seed after winning the ACC title, but a three seed isn't that bad. I don't think they can be all that happy with the prospect of facing Kansas as early as the sweet 16 though.

I thought Illinois deserved a better fate, especially after winning the Big-10 Tourney. Goes to show how little those tourneys mean to the committee.

 

[ParkHead]

wow

How tough is the West region, I believe four teams legitimately have a shot at coming out of there(Arizona,Kansas,Duke, and Illinois) This region will be fun to watch. I believe Kentucky have the easiest path to the final four but you never now with March Madness.


Parkhead

 

[sensei_hanson]

They fcuked up putting Arizona and Kentucky on the same side of the draw. These two are easily the top programs in the country right now, and if all goes according to plan, the real national championship will occur in the final four.

Like I mentioned earlier, Illinois got screwed. That second-round matchup with ND looms, and I don't think either team is looking forward to facing such a quality opponent so early in the draw. That's two top-15 schools squaring off in a field of 32.

As for Syracuse, Dapo, they've got to be semi-stoked about their draw. Oklahoma State is a quality team, and if they meet up with the Orangemen you've got an excellent coaching battle with Boeheim and Sutton. OK State don't really have a legit star and will be reliant on their defense to see them through. Anyways, they should handle Manhattan but might run into trouble against St. Joe's, the home of Jameer Nelson. It'll be a straight-up war of stars, between Nelson and 'Cuse big man Carmelo Anthony. Auburn stinks and don't deserve their at-large bid. How they got in over Boston College is beyond me. I thought Wake Forest was a surprise #2 seed over Duke (okay, so Wake won the conference....they both had 24-win seasons, and they split the season series. Duke won the tourney title). So there's a brief analysis of their bracketology.

 

[ParkHead]

No way should Kentucky and Arizona be on the same side which is why I really like the idea that once you get to the Final four they should reseed the teams. If two # one's make it and say they are to play in one semi while in the other there is a 2 seed and a 5 seed they should reseed them so that the two higher seeds don't play in the semis. This way you would get the best final probably in most cases.

Any thoughts or just leave it the way it is?


Parkhead

 

[One Dart]

Not a bad idea. One way to do this would be to seed each of the number 1's, number 2's, number 3's etc 1-4 before the tournament. That way if you had two number 1's or two number 2's you would be able to seed them appropriately once they reached the final four.

 

[ParkHead]

They actually do in a way all ready. I am not sure exactly how it works but like this year for instance for some reason Texas is actually the true # 1 seed. That is why they play the winner of the other game involving the 65 team. Now this is why this year the field is all screwed up because how can either Arizona or Kentucky not be the true # 1 seed?


parkhead

 

[Dapotayto]

Thanks for the response, Sensei. That gives me a little background stuff to go on when I'm watching the tourney.


March Madness rocks!

 

[ParkHead]

Crazy

Has anyone else heard this yet. BYU who is 12 seed because of school rules can not under any circumstances play a game on Sunday. Mormon thing. If by chance BYU wins it's first two games there next game is scheduled to be played on that's right Sunday. The NCAA apparently has guarenteed the school that should they win their first two games they will reseed the teams that are left, thus changing all the brackets. this apparently has never been an issue before and should it happen can you believe the Kaos this will cause. You can throw all your picks out the window. This should all be moot mind you because Byu plays UCONN in the first round and UCONN should handle them easily but this is the tournament.

Unbelievable they would change everything for one school.



Parkhead

 

[One Dart]

Screw the mormons. Good for nothing anyways, just look at Shawn Bradley.

 

[knvb]

There's that Hitler influence again...

 

[Regs]

Free TTP March Madness Pool:

http://www.takethepiss.com/community/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2776

Cheers,

~Regs.